Okay, so I received my Geissele Super Charging Handle today, which I've been waiting on to complete my 10.3" DD build. I've already got an SSA trigger, 9.5" MK8 rail, and Super Precision Aimpoint mount on this rifle, so naturally I had to have Geissele's new charging handle as well. I ordered it from Midsouth Shooters Supply, and they sent it in a big-assed fucking shoebox with lots of futuristic chrome packaging/padding, so there was virtually zero chance of it being damaged in transit.



Woo to the hoo, finally got my Geissele Super Charging Handle! Such a beautiful masterpiece of machining technology!



I went and got the 10.3" SBR from the safe, removed the Armageddon Tactical charging handle, and replaced it with the Geissele Super Charging Handle. Damn, it looks sharp as fuck in the rifle!







But then when I start cycling the BCG back and forth, I notice there's quite a bit of stiffness and resistance. Whereas my Armageddon (and the AXTS Raptor before it) slid back and forth like butter, the Geissele Super Charging Handle was hanging up and sticking terribly. I first noticed that it seemed difficult to pull the BCG out of battery, and that if I rode the charging handle back even a little, it would stick. Then, even when I gave it a nice hard "slingshot" back home, it would still hang up and fail to go back into battery. Even when it did make it all the way back home, it did so in a manner that I was having to double check to make sure.

Mind you, I am using a Colt upper, Daniel Defense 10.3 barrel (the military overrun variety), and an Aim V2 Nitride BCG that has never given me an ounce of trouble. It's also fair to point out that I have yet to shoot the rifle with the Super Charging Handle installed.

So I decided to do a dimensional comparison check between the Geissele Super Charging Handle, and two other "premium" charging handles I have on hand; the Armaggedon Tactical, and the AXTS Raptor. I am not a scientist and I don't do firearm reviews for a living, so take this as you will. It's just an honest side-by-side-by-side comparison of three charging handles using what methods I had at my disposal.

First of all, here are a couple pictures of all three charging handles next to one another. Notice the bevel on the top of the "stem" is least pronounced on the Geissele. In other words, the Geissele definitely has a bulkier profile than the Armageddon and the Raptor:



This next picture shows the "gas mitigation systems" (if you want to call it that) of the Geissele and the Armageddon, and the absence of it on the Raptor. The Geissele only has a hump to block the gas coming over the top of the charging handle, whereas the Armageddon seems to have a hump as well as more of a hollow cavity, and a hole to direct the gas into that hollow cavity. I've still got a couple weeks to go before my Griffin 30SD suppressor is out of jail, so I couldn't test the effectiveness of these "gas mitigation systems" right now even if I wanted to. Fuck off, ATF.



Okay, more pertinent dimensional information that is relevant to my particular issue with the Geissele; the stem on the Geissele is a couple thousandths of an inch wider than the other Armageddon and the Raptor. I can't be 100% sure this is contributing to the sticky cycling, but again, the other two cycle like butter and the Geissele, which happens to be the widest, if only by a thousandth or two, is sticky. Just calling it like I see it, folks.







And lastly, for you goofy bastards who like to count the ounces, here are the weights. The Raptor is the lightest, the Armageddon is nearly half an ounce heavier than the Raptor, and the Geissele only is only slightly heavier than the Raptor. I drink a glass of milk a day and do at least 100 push-ups a day, so I have had no issues toting the Armageddon around until the time of this post.








In conclusion, I will be keeping the Armageddon in this rifle for the time being because it has already proven to be a reliable charging handle. As soon as I get a chance, I will make a range trip where I will swap the Geissele back into the rifle, and see if I can't "shoot it loose", so to speak. That's it for now.

Finally, because this was a review/evaluation of sorts, I would like to give tribute to everyone's favorite reviewer/evaluator, Molon, by ending this post with three dots:


...

I just went and tried the Geissele CH in my 14.5" pinned & weld build, which has an Anderson upper receiver, Voodoo Tactical nitride barrel, and Aim "Evo" BCG. This is the rifle that the AXTS Raptor rides in nowadays. It was not sticking as bad as in the 10.3, but still nowhere near a "buttery" motion.

Okay, so I decided to head down to the garage, where there's a small beer fridge and a chair. I needed to be some place where the family wouldn't have to hear the noise. I took a swig of beer, grabbed my 10.3", applied a generous amount of lube, and I commenced to stroking it. Slowly at first, then began a gradual increase of pace. Back and forth, I worked it real hard. I wanted to make sure to give it some real violent and intense action, like I was shooting hot loads. Eventually, I'd cranked on it for so long, I thought it was going to bust. I was tired, but the results were well worth it.

Here were my findings:

As you can see, there's a hell of lot of wear on top of the charging handle, along the stem. And, wouldn't you know it, the wear is exactly where the other two charging handles have a pronounced beveled edge. There's also a considerable amount of wear on the one side. I wiped all the oil off so that the wear would show up better in the pictures.

I've been (not so) patiently waiting to catch these in stock somewhere. Now I'm truly concerned.. Maybe I'll just just get a raptor and see how this goes.

I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy feeling. Never had to lap in a CH.

You gonna send it back?

There is hardly any bevel on that. WTF are they thinking?

I don't know... You think it's returnable with all that finish worn off? Should I send it back to Midsouth or Geissele?

You oughta call/ email somebody at giess

Show em these pics

Somethings up, they make better gear than that.


I

BCM Gunfighter FTW

When's the new LaRue charging handles coming out?

After your review and a lack of response by anyone from Geissele in my thread I'm ordering the Raptor.

Thank you OP...!

I have a Raptor, Armageddon and several BCM/Vltor handles.  The Raptor is awful with gas to the face on a suppressed rifle (which led to me buying the Armageddon), but it Is my favorite in the feel category.  I don't really like the feel of the Armageddon, but it's great for gas busting and the BCM is ok in both categories.  The Raptor also would not work with my QC10 9mm bolt.  Would not charge at all.

I would call or e-mail Geissele directly.  They have the best customer service in the industry.  They will make it right.

The Armageddon is definitely my favorite CH so far. The way the handle pulls straight back instead of pivoting just feels completely natural, IMO.

As for the BCMs, I had a Mod 4 but they aren't ambi so that one ended up on a build I sold to a friend. I have not tried their ambi CH yet.

...................and yet keeping in mind what the charging handled does, all the fancy and expensive gizmos seems hardly worth the effort and cost.  I have the BCM Gunfighter Mod. 4 in all my AR's and they do what I need without going overboard.

Do you shoot suppressed, serious question?

No, not at all.  Why? Does it take two hands to charge a suppressed AR? Serious question.

I think you missed the point. Left handed charging is not something the geissele has over the BCM since they offer that.

He posted it 25 hours ago, and it's Memorial Day weekend. . I'd imagine someone from Geissele will be along before long.

No I understand, but unless you're a left hand shooter the fancy ambi CH's have no advantage.  A quick check says only 10% of the population is left-handed.  I'm not, so that's why the BCM Gunfighter CH works fine for me.

He's referring to gas mitigation options that the "fancy" charging handles may have.  Go shoot a rifle with a suppressor and you will see why a charging handle with gas mitigation is so important.  Gas to the face sucks.

No bueno.

Bill will make it right.

That was exactly my point, thank you.

Give him a break, poor guy says he doesn't shoot supressed.

For years I've been going to both indoor and outdoor ranges all over Florida where hundreds of people are shooting AR type weapons and I have yet to see even one person shooting suppressed.  Where is it that all this takes place?  They are completely legal in Florida with a stamp, I'm surprised I never see them..

I really wanted one. Now not as much.

Just giving ya a hard time, man. I've only got a homebrew 22lr can right now, but hopefully my first "real" can will be here soon. My first time shooting suppressed weapons was last year at the Missouri HTF shoot. TATBME and I went along with my son and we all got bit by the NFA bug.

You should see the finish on my BCM Gunfighter. Oddly enough my strike industries charging handle has held up better.

I cycled it quite a bit. Probably between 200 to 300 cycles total. I was hoping it would work loose, and it did just a bit, but never got to feeling as smooth as I would've liked.

Both the Armageddon and the Raptor have many more actual rounds on them than the amount of times I hand-cycled the Geissele. They don't have wear like you see here, because they don't have the same surface area on them like you see here:

Okay, I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "relief cuts". If you're talking about the lack of a bevel along the top of the stem, I suppose you may be correct that it could be stronger that way. I can tell you, though, that every other charging handle I've looked at, whether my own or just images online, has more of a pronounced bevel than the Geissele. So how is that extra bulk affecting function? That is the question.

The newer BCM charging handles have a raised lip that looks to be better/ wider than the Geissele CH.  the BCM still lets the gas bleed off near your face but not bad.  The Raptor has no raised lip.

I have never used a Armagedon CH.  Do the handles move or is more of a friction release to unlatch it?

When was the last time a Charging handle snapped in half in the center?

Did you reach out Geissele in their forum yet.  They are usually pretty responsive.

I posted a link to this thread there in an existing thread.

Thanks for a real world, No BS review.
I bet they make this right with you.

I like the Armageddon, and  I really like the BCM mod 4 CHs.

Cuomo won't let me shoot suppressed.

I got my three yesterday. I haven't had time to do much side by side with my raptor, but my two and the one I got for a friend seem to be fine in our uppers. Two murs and one BCM4.

The one I have slides fine in square, keyhole and colt uppers. Odd.

The entire handle itself actually slides rearward and actuates a mechanism inside that moves the latch. Pretty neat setup. As I've said before, I really like the way it works because of how it moves back, the same way the operator is pulling on it. It does not have independent handles that pivot in a different direction than the force of pull, and I just think that's cool that it works like that. I've nothing against the way most other charging handles work because as long as they work it's really not that big of a deal anyway.

I should note as well that the Armageddon CH had issues of its own when it first came out. I don't know exactly what the issues were but I believe they had to do with the internal mechanics, not a dimensional issue like with the Geissele. TATBME had one of the Armageddons that had the problem I'm talking about so maybe he can chime in and explain. My Armageddon has been flawless so far and I've easily got over 1000 rounds on it.

On my original Armageddon the mechanism would release under recoil, causing it to come right at your face.  They realized the problem and released a Gen 2 version, if you had the Gen 1 they replaced it with a Gen 2 free of charge.
I'll be loaning DetrhoytMAK a Griffin SN-ACH to add to the comparison. The SN-ACH is my favorite CH so far (especially if you shoot suppressed), but I also have a Geissele inbound for comparison.

Quite possible that I just got a rare Geissele lemon. I think that other upper I tried it in is an Anderson, though it might be a PSA, I can't remember. There was not as much resistance in that upper as in my Colt on the 10.3" build, but there was still more than normal.

Can't tell if serious... You do understand that the charging handle doesn't go anywhere when you are actually shooting, right?

At any rate, the wear looks normal to me. Pics of a moderately used raptor for reference:





Despite the larger bevel on the raptor the wear appears to extend about the same amount "in" on the top of the handle, which is just a function of imparting some downward or upward pressure when pulling back on the handle. I suppose in theory you could have more drag on the Geissele with the smaller bevel but gain a stiffer handle.

With other people reporting no problems I would bet you just have a little tolerance stacking going on, maybe a slightly tight upper channel that isn't playing nice at first with the beefier handle. I would also bet that with a little more use and lube it will wear in and be fine.

I am pleased as pie with my raptor handles but if I was looking for something new I would not let this dissuade me from the Geissele.

I thought it would be apparent that I was having a little fun when I typed that entire paragraph.

And yes, I agree wholeheartedly that tolerance stacking could very well be the issue here.

I am right handed but prefer the ambi function for manually locking the bolt back. It makes it much easier to simply grab the right side handle with your right hand than having to crane over the top to grab the left side. Run some malfunction drills with one and you'll likely appreciate the difference.

I used BCM handles exclusively until I tried a Raptor.

I authored the original thread in the Geissele Forum.  Just a little annoyed they have not responded to anything since Jan 28th.

I think they need to go back to the design phase with these.  Generation 2 time..

Haha, it's probably not.  No reason to super meticulous build a charging handle.  My new one came with a PRI gas buster.

http://www.larue.com/mil-spec-aluminum-charging-handle

It works.

Are BCM GF charging handles good with suppressors?

I just ordered a geissele charging handle and will compare to the BCM.

Bill might be too busy shipping orders the same day the purchase is made as opposed to posting on the intrawebz and having multiple month back orders on popular products.

(Please don't cancel my pending MBT Mark)  Lol