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Posted: 7/5/2015 8:47:58 PM EDT
Hey yall I had a buddy FO on the 600$ radical firearms AR that PA sells. Hasn't really had any issues with it slow fire (range rules) however when he found a different range and let er rip a bit the castle nut worked loose (non staked). After re assembling the rifle and having a range employee "tighten" the castle nut buddy went back to shooting. The nut again backed off this time allowing the buffer retainer to jam the BCG mid cycle. After hand tightening everything back up he gave up and went home. Here are a few pics. He's also had trouble getting lock back on the factory issue M3 pmag and others. All stock internals.
Is this right? To me the buffer tube should overlap more onto the retainer however when you do that the rifle will not go together. Buddy will be contacting radical in the morning 
Here is a pic of the bolt lock lever. Looks ok to me. What say the hive ? 
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Posted: 7/5/2015 8:51:54 PM EDT
[#1]
I always just put a dab or two of easy loctite on the threads. works fine.
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Posted: 7/5/2015 8:54:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Much better to just do it right than to play games or use thread locker.
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Posted: 7/5/2015 9:05:20 PM EDT
[#3]
Needs further inward, give the receiver extension one more turn. Measure how much needs to be filed off so that the detent freely moves....unscrew receiver extension to remove it from the receiver, file a small groove to clear the detent or just keep the whole tab and file off the offending metal. Go slow and frequently test fit until you get it there.
Stake the nut in place when done. Threadlock for this job is 
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Posted: 7/5/2015 9:09:06 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Needs further inward, give the receiver extension one more turn. Measure how much needs to be filed off so that the detent freely moves....unscrew receiver extension to remove it from the receiver, file a small groove to clear the detent or just keep the whole tab and file off the offending metal. Go slow and frequently test fit until you get it there. This was his idea. i think he's gonna drive it down to the mfg (they're not far from our neck of the woods ) and let them have a chance to fix the problems. |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 9:29:17 PM EDT
[#5]
Staking isn't as good as properly torquing. It sounds like the buffer tube was hand tightened and not actually torqued to spec.
If it isn't torqued right then all staking does is make it that much harder to get it off and torqued correctly. |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 9:31:02 PM EDT
[#6]
Both these work, but the second one is mo better. One turn of the tube.
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Posted: 7/5/2015 9:53:14 PM EDT
[#7]
Tighten it up and stake it.
I would let the assholes that fucked it up the first time fiuck it up again.
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Posted: 7/5/2015 10:07:52 PM EDT
[#8]
Ahh Radical, the horror stories continue
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Posted: 7/5/2015 10:12:29 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Much better to just do it right than to play games or use thread locker. 10-4 Stickman nailed it |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 11:24:41 PM EDT
[#10]
It looks like that buffer tube could use another turn.
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Posted: 7/6/2015 12:09:53 AM EDT
[#11]
turn the extension 1 more turn,tourque it,stake the nut dont use thread locker.
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Posted: 7/6/2015 7:30:22 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I always just put a dab or two of easy loctite on the threads. works fine. yeah, works fine until the loctite creeps into the buffer retainer hole and causes all kinds of fuck-ups. pard is a gunsmith who does an armorer's course for the AR; has dozens of photos of firearms customers have brought in that had loctite on the threads. spoiler alert: it didn't "work fine". there's a reason the specification is to torque and then stake. most folks take that as a hint, rather than a suggestion to do otherwise. ;) |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 8:36:07 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yeah, works fine until the loctite creeps into the buffer retainer hole and causes all kinds of fuck-ups. pard is a gunsmith who does an armorer's course for the AR; has dozens of photos of firearms customers have brought in that had loctite on the threads. spoiler alert: it didn't "work fine". there's a reason the specification is to torque and then stake. most folks take that as a hint, rather than a suggestion to do otherwise. ;) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I always just put a dab or two of easy loctite on the threads. works fine. yeah, works fine until the loctite creeps into the buffer retainer hole and causes all kinds of fuck-ups. pard is a gunsmith who does an armorer's course for the AR; has dozens of photos of firearms customers have brought in that had loctite on the threads. spoiler alert: it didn't "work fine". there's a reason the specification is to torque and then stake. most folks take that as a hint, rather than a suggestion to do otherwise. ;) You loctite the castle nut, not the tube, making this a non-issue. I personally stake mine, but a couple of drops of loctite probably wouldn't be the end of the world if done with some common sense. ETA: Just to be clear, I'm with you and others with the staking. It's simple, effective, and free. And when done correctly is almost bombproof. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 8:45:19 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You loctite the castle nut, not the tube, making this a non-issue. I personally stake mine, but a couple of drops of loctite probably wouldn't be the end of the world if done with some common sense. ETA: Just to be clear, I'm with you and others with the staking. It's simple, effective, and free. And when done correctly is almost bombproof. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I always just put a dab or two of easy loctite on the threads. works fine. yeah, works fine until the loctite creeps into the buffer retainer hole and causes all kinds of fuck-ups. pard is a gunsmith who does an armorer's course for the AR; has dozens of photos of firearms customers have brought in that had loctite on the threads. spoiler alert: it didn't "work fine". there's a reason the specification is to torque and then stake. most folks take that as a hint, rather than a suggestion to do otherwise. ;) You loctite the castle nut, not the tube, making this a non-issue. I personally stake mine, but a couple of drops of loctite probably wouldn't be the end of the world if done with some common sense. ETA: Just to be clear, I'm with you and others with the staking. It's simple, effective, and free. And when done correctly is almost bombproof. Blue loctite does work if your not going to stake. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 9:26:59 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You loctite the castle nut, not the tube, making this a non-issue. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I always just put a dab or two of easy loctite on the threads. works fine. yeah, works fine until the loctite creeps into the buffer retainer hole and causes all kinds of fuck-ups. pard is a gunsmith who does an armorer's course for the AR; has dozens of photos of firearms customers have brought in that had loctite on the threads. spoiler alert: it didn't "work fine". there's a reason the specification is to torque and then stake. most folks take that as a hint, rather than a suggestion to do otherwise. ;) You loctite the castle nut, not the tube, making this a non-issue. ...because the castle nut's threads don't come in contact with the tube's, so it can't possibly creep in the 12+ hours it can take to cure? 
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Posted: 7/6/2015 10:25:34 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
...because the castle nut's threads don't come in contact with the tube's, so it can't possibly creep in the 12+ hours it can take to cure? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I always just put a dab or two of easy loctite on the threads. works fine. yeah, works fine until the loctite creeps into the buffer retainer hole and causes all kinds of fuck-ups. pard is a gunsmith who does an armorer's course for the AR; has dozens of photos of firearms customers have brought in that had loctite on the threads. spoiler alert: it didn't "work fine". there's a reason the specification is to torque and then stake. most folks take that as a hint, rather than a suggestion to do otherwise. ;) You loctite the castle nut, not the tube, making this a non-issue. ...because the castle nut's threads don't come in contact with the tube's, so it can't possibly creep in the 12+ hours it can take to cure? Pretty much. If the nut is tight, it won't "creep" anywhere. Neither will penetrating lubricant or anything else. ETA: Once again, I do agree with you on staking. But in my experience which is over 20yrs working on cars, trucks, you name it.....it just doesn't happen. When threads are tight or nuts are frozen you can pump all the penetrating wonder lubricant you want to on it, and it will not begin to work or help until you get the thing to move. Same thing with the loctite. If you put a couple drops where the castle nut sits, and tighten it snug, loctite will not creep. ETA#2: But it's a moot point. Moral of story is that it's cheaper and easier to stake it properly and call it good. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 10:30:07 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
...because the castle nut's threads don't come in contact with the tube's, so it can't possibly creep in the 12+ hours it can take to cure? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I always just put a dab or two of easy loctite on the threads. works fine. yeah, works fine until the loctite creeps into the buffer retainer hole and causes all kinds of fuck-ups. pard is a gunsmith who does an armorer's course for the AR; has dozens of photos of firearms customers have brought in that had loctite on the threads. spoiler alert: it didn't "work fine". there's a reason the specification is to torque and then stake. most folks take that as a hint, rather than a suggestion to do otherwise. ;) You loctite the castle nut, not the tube, making this a non-issue. ...because the castle nut's threads don't come in contact with the tube's, so it can't possibly creep in the 12+ hours it can take to cure? Cure time is dependent on temp and humidity. You also don't have to goop so much on that it does creep. And even if you feel the need to use that much you can always point the receiver upwards and let it run down the buffer tube. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 11:57:30 AM EDT
[#18]
My tube has that goofy lip on it too. Got it from Damage Industries. I was going to make a thread on here asking if it was Ok to grind a notch in it like the one pictured. Now that I see someone has done it I feel confident in doing it to mine. Thanks.
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:27:51 PM EDT
[#19]
It looks like the buffer retainer has been pushed forward, like someone tightened the tube without depressing the plunger. The thread in front of the retainer has a definite curve.
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:45:18 PM EDT
[#20]
Loctite on the castle nut is a half ass solution.
Get an automatic center punch and stake it. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 6:00:03 PM EDT
[#21]
Sometimes it looks like the receiver extension needs another turn, but when you actually give it another turn, it ends up binding with the buffer retainer, not letting it spring up all the way. So every case is different.
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Posted: 7/6/2015 7:12:45 PM EDT
[#22]
Maybe it's just me, but it APPEARS that the hole for the buffer retainer might be drilled too far forward.
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Posted: 7/6/2015 7:16:13 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sometimes it looks like the receiver extension needs another turn, but when you actually give it another turn, it ends up binding with the buffer retainer, not letting it spring up all the way. So every case is different. +1. It'll work either way. See if it'll go another turn, of not leave it as is and STAKE THE END PLATE. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 8:16:55 PM EDT
[#24]
The receiver extension looks like it should be able to go in another turn. If not, there are suggestions above for what to do to accommodate the buffer retainer. Once the receiver extension is in where it's supposed to be, STAKE THE CASTLE NUT. Quick, easy, AND IT WORKS.
As for the bolt catch, it looks OK, but it could probably use some lube in its slot and around the roll pin. This part tends to be under-appreciated, so it doesn't get the attention it should have before it causes problems. The catch should move easily with finger pressure. If it doesn't, and if lube doesn't help, the part may be too thick for the slot, or the pivot hole could be too tight. Bolt catches are inexpensive, so if lube doesn't help, replace it. And test fit the new part before pinning it in - you can stone (or even file!) the back side of the catch so it fits better in the slot, and a couple of twists with a drill bit (by hand) just a hair larger than the hole already is can make the pivot fit fine. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 8:53:08 PM EDT
[#25]
I keep fooling myself to think someday I won't be sending money to Doctors and related bills... and SBR my "pistol" and loc-tite the pistol receiver extension.
Hey... I have a nice heat gun, so freeing up loc-tite is not problematic. |
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Posted: 7/7/2015 8:46:33 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I keep fooling myself to think someday I won't be sending money to Doctors and related bills... and SBR my "pistol" and loc-tite the pistol receiver extension. Hey... I have a nice heat gun, so freeing up loc-tite is not problematic. You do know that removing a staked castle nut is pretty much trivial, right? If it's at all stubborn, you can use a small punch to "un-stake" the nut, otherwise just wrench a bit and it comes loose. By itself, no. With a wrench, easy. |
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Posted: 7/7/2015 9:06:22 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You do know that removing a staked castle nut is pretty much trivial, right? If it's at all stubborn, you can use a small punch to "un-stake" the nut, otherwise just wrench a bit and it comes loose. By itself, no. With a wrench, easy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I keep fooling myself to think someday I won't be sending money to Doctors and related bills... and SBR my "pistol" and loc-tite the pistol receiver extension. Hey... I have a nice heat gun, so freeing up loc-tite is not problematic. You do know that removing a staked castle nut is pretty much trivial, right? If it's at all stubborn, you can use a small punch to "un-stake" the nut, otherwise just wrench a bit and it comes loose. By itself, no. With a wrench, easy. Castle nut wrench and a few taps with a hammer. |
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Posted: 7/8/2015 12:34:21 PM EDT
[#28]
I have never had one come loose and I install with moly grease and tighten only.
If it were a competition or duty weapon I would certainly stake the nut. |
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Posted: 7/8/2015 2:46:01 PM EDT
[#29]
UPDATE. Buddy took the gun to radical and they repaired it under warranty. We are going shooting tommorow evening hopefully they fixed it correctly. I think he and I both will be staking out castle nuts to prevent future failure. Though my windham has never had an issue and has many more rounds in it
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Posted: 7/8/2015 2:47:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
UPDATE. Buddy took the gun to radical and they repaired it under warranty. We are going shooting tommorow evening hopefully they fixed it correctly. I think he and I both will be staking out castle nuts to prevent future failure. Though my windham has never had an issue and has many more rounds in it Nice. Can you tell us how they decided to repair it? |
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Posted: 7/8/2015 3:29:47 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nice. Can you tell us how they decided to repair it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
UPDATE. Buddy took the gun to radical and they repaired it under warranty. We are going shooting tommorow evening hopefully they fixed it correctly. I think he and I both will be staking out castle nuts to prevent future failure. Though my windham has never had an issue and has many more rounds in it Nice. Can you tell us how they decided to repair it? Yeah let us know because to me it looks like they torqued the crap out of it against the buffer pin and cracked in to the receiver pocket. |
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Posted: 7/8/2015 3:46:57 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Much better to just do it right than to play games or use thread locker. THIS! It take 2 minutes to put the lower receiver in a magwell block, tighten it in a table vice; and make 2 strikes with a steel punch, Done! |
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Posted: 7/8/2015 3:48:15 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This was his idea. i think he's gonna drive it down to the mfg (they're not far from our neck of the woods ) and let them have a chance to fix the problems. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Needs further inward, give the receiver extension one more turn. Measure how much needs to be filed off so that the detent freely moves....unscrew receiver extension to remove it from the receiver, file a small groove to clear the detent or just keep the whole tab and file off the offending metal. Go slow and frequently test fit until you get it there. This was his idea. i think he's gonna drive it down to the mfg (they're not far from our neck of the woods ) and let them have a chance to fix the problems. I wouldn't waste the time, nor the gas... This is a 2 minute job... |
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Posted: 7/9/2015 11:36:03 AM EDT
[#34]
How did they "fix" it?
Staking really is the way to go, it's simple and effective. |
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Posted: 7/9/2015 2:11:34 PM EDT
[#35]
When I was young and naive I used loctite. That's a bad idea. Then for awhile I staked everything. Turns out I change up my builds way too often so I stopped staking. Now I just apply the proper amount of torque and I've never had a problem.
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Posted: 7/9/2015 2:53:58 PM EDT
[#36]
I'm not convinced that staking that particular castle nut would have prevented an issue. It looks like there is enough space for that retainer to move forward under firing and work its way out.
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Posted: 7/9/2015 3:03:49 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Staking isn't as good as properly torquing. It sounds like the buffer tube was hand tightened and not actually torqued to spec. If it isn't torqued right then all staking does is make it that much harder to get it off and torqued correctly. I've never heard of staking a castle nut. It's not specified that way in the mil-spec armorer's handbook from ~20 years ago. Is that actually done now as a matter of course, or is it home-spun voodoo? |
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Posted: 7/9/2015 7:47:24 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
[I've never heard of staking a castle nut. It's not specified that way in the mil-spec armorer's handbook from ~20 years ago. Is that actually done now as a matter of course, or is it home-spun voodoo? Quote HistoryQuoted:
[I've never heard of staking a castle nut. It's not specified that way in the mil-spec armorer's handbook from ~20 years ago. Is that actually done now as a matter of course, or is it home-spun voodoo? It has been a standard procedure since the M4 was included in the TM... TM 9-1005-319-23&P, page 3-81.1: 6J. Stake the receiver end plate (5.6) in 2 places across from the notches in the locking nut (5.5). |
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Posted: 7/9/2015 10:22:15 PM EDT
[#39]
UPDATE
took "repaired" gun to the range fresh from radical firearms. It made it 40-50 rounds before retaining pin went AWOL. Said pin was fubar as was retaining pin spring. We pinned the radical upper to a known functioning lower and not long after experienced a mean combo of a stove pipe type FTE as well as a double feed. Brass ejects at 1.45 on the different lower as well. Car buffer on both lowers. Pinning the correct upper to functional lower and no problems for the remainder of the range trip. It's sad to say That this poorly assembled weapon was assembled in Texas 
Eta light rotational pressure on stock and the tube came loose again. Apparent radical firearms did nothing to fix the problem. |
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Posted: 7/9/2015 11:51:50 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
UPDATE took "repaired" gun to the range fresh from radical firearms. It made it 40-50 rounds before retaining pin went AWOL. Said pin was fubar as was retaining pin spring. We pinned the radical upper to a known functioning lower and not long after experienced a mean combo of a stove pipe type FTE as well as a double feed. Brass ejects at 1.45 on the different lower as well. Car buffer on both lowers. Pinning the correct upper to functional lower and no problems for the remainder of the range trip. It's sad to say That this poorly assembled weapon was assembled in Texas
Eta light rotational pressure on stock and the tube came loose again. Apparent radical firearms did nothing to fix the problem. Terrible. Sorry. They have a lifetime warranty on their crap right? Unfortunately if me, I would be done with the rifle and the company. The issue can easily be repaired by a qualified person but, it appears they have no regard for their customers. Admittedly I may be overreacting and am not giving them a fair chance at telling their side but, guns are potentially a lifeline in many cases, serious business and should be treated as such. There are quite a few companies today that know how to assemble a working rifle, the best of luck. |
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Posted: 7/10/2015 12:28:55 AM EDT
[#41]
They do have a lifetime warranty. Buddy called their customer service department and got voice mail more than once. He had to call the showroom to talk to someone. According to him the gunsmith wasn't over 30 years old when he returned the gun the first time. Radical will be getting another call from him asking for a manager or other higher up. He mentioned he probably won't be doing more business with them and I don't blame him. Thank god he didn't need the gun at the time it broke
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Posted: 7/10/2015 6:46:56 AM EDT
[#42]
Never staked anything.
Never Loctite'd anything. Tighten it down and run it. These are not complex machines people. |
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Posted: 7/10/2015 9:58:47 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Never staked anything. Never Loctite'd anything. Tighten it down and run it. These are not complex machines people. I'd agree that there is a tendency around here to overcomplicate things like roll pins, springs, anything threaded (Eeek!), but staking is so simple and so effective. The only thing I don't get is why everybody wants to recommend one of the Buck Rogers automatic spring-loaded center punches for the job. Did one of the AR gurus carve that on a tablet or something? Lol. Just use a simple steel center punch and a 1 lb. hammer, FFS. Three whacks. Ta da. |
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Posted: 7/10/2015 6:16:52 PM EDT
[#44]
Every manufacturer can have an issue with their rifle, how they handle it is what counts. It sounds like radical didn't actually repair anything seeing as it's still broken.
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