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Posted: 7/4/2015 7:16:37 PM EDT
[#1]
Between my 10.5 CQBR clone, my 12" CQBR/M4 hybrid and my 12" pistol , my remaining 16" doesn't get much play.
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Posted: 7/4/2015 7:34:52 PM EDT
[#2]
I like my 11.5''. I'd probably rather a 12.5'' or 14.5'' unsuppressed than my 11.5'' suppressed tho.
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Posted: 7/4/2015 8:10:32 PM EDT
[#3]
I have 10.5's and 12.5's. Happy with both. As I tell my wife, "what difference does 2 inches make???"
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Posted: 7/4/2015 8:26:37 PM EDT
[#4]
My go to is an 11.5 but for general use I'd say 14.5. Getting around nfa is nice.
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Posted: 7/4/2015 10:09:52 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My go to is an 11.5 but for general use I'd say 14.5. Getting around nfa is nice. This...I am weeding out my 16's for 14.5's right now. Have a 12.5 BCM Barrel that I would like to SBR someday too though. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 10:24:27 PM EDT
[#6]
I had a 12.5, and now I have an 11.5. I don't see the point in 12.5 or 10.5 for that matter. The 11.5 is leagues ahead of a 10.5 and the 12.5 doesn't offer much in the way of improvement over the 11.5.
The 14.5 has always struck me as a general purpose carbine length, with the 16 being reserved for a RECCE role and the 18.5" being good for an SPR style rifle. Conversely, I have also never been a fan of the 20" length either. |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 1:30:53 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty much what mine is, 14.5" 1/7 M4 with Knights RAS, Aimpoint Comp M3/ADM Mount, SSA-E, TRL1-HL and a SOPMOD stock. Love it. I don't like the man in my life. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm personally using and M4 MWS clone as a GP rifle so I voted 14.5". Its compact enough with still decent performance from M193, which is my main ammo supply. The basic M4 with RAS system is hard to beat. Pretty much a clone of my rifle in Iraq minus the M962 light. http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h116/tomcat3020/SANY1038.jpg Pretty much what mine is, 14.5" 1/7 M4 with Knights RAS, Aimpoint Comp M3/ADM Mount, SSA-E, TRL1-HL and a SOPMOD stock. Love it. I don't like the man in my life. My favorite set up also. 
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Posted: 7/5/2015 1:56:28 AM EDT
[#8]
I remember seeing Stickman do a little write up about what John Noveske's favorite barrel length would be. John mentioned the 12.5 because it was a good combination of velocity, compactness, and would be better on suppressed use due to blast baffle erosion.
My favorite SBR was in 6.8 with a Wilson Combat 12" barrel and a VTAC 11 HG. It's worth mentioning that the only reason I no longer own it is because I was offered profit on it. 
If you're going to do a 14.5, getting the muzzle pinned makes things more difficult at a later date because you have to grind things 
I'm already thinking of another 12.5 setup myself. It'll probably be a 6.8 again. |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 2:19:31 AM EDT
[#9]
I voted 12.5" for general purpose since as a civilian like myself, in the suburban and urban setting that I live in, I don't see a need for a barrel length that could do 'maximum damage' of a 5.56 round out to 150 yards.... good luck explaining to the judge for shooting someone at that distance b/c of self defense.
If I am in a SHTF/warzone/end of the world situation, I would prefer 14.5" or 16" or 18" The reason being the more damage potential at longer distances.... I would definitely prefer more open areas with lesser population density. All my guns are 14.5" or longer, and my preferred length is 16" 
Once I decided on a place to settle, I will be getting a few SBR guns |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 2:47:40 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My favorite set up also. http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e335/veeklog/Firearms/P1010032_zpsb2ed9f55.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm personally using and M4 MWS clone as a GP rifle so I voted 14.5". Its compact enough with still decent performance from M193, which is my main ammo supply. The basic M4 with RAS system is hard to beat. Pretty much a clone of my rifle in Iraq minus the M962 light. http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h116/tomcat3020/SANY1038.jpg Pretty much what mine is, 14.5" 1/7 M4 with Knights RAS, Aimpoint Comp M3/ADM Mount, SSA-E, TRL1-HL and a SOPMOD stock. Love it. I don't like the man in my life. My favorite set up also. http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e335/veeklog/Firearms/P1010032_zpsb2ed9f55.jpg Other than missing a PEQ-2. That's my exact setup for my second tour in Iraq. lol. Er besides the stock being different. |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 9:19:56 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IMO 11.5 is even mo betta than the 12.5. If you're going to SBR something might as well go as short as possible to make it worth it. The 10.5 is a little harsh but the 11.5 is perfect. I put my 12.5" setup for sale in the EE after testing all three for a year. Agree 11.5 can do everthing I need up to 250yrds. |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 9:52:03 AM EDT
[#12]
both OP
I run 14.5 for general purpose machine gunning and whatnot I run 12.5 suppressed for general purpose fun and varmint hunting. |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 2:08:37 PM EDT
[#13]
For all around ar15 use (nfa considerations not withstanding) my view is that the 11.5-12.5 range is the sweet spot. Of the common ar barrel lengths I've NOT owned a 7.5, 13.7, or 14.5. I've never owned a 14.5 because I never quite saw the point. In my opinion it makes the wrong compromises.
My 12.5" spits 55g M193 at 2900 fps. My 16" hits about 3100 fps. If I recall, a 20" should do about 3200 fps. With my 12.5" I have about 60% of the length for a 20", and about 90% of the velocity and range. 12.5" is short enough to open doors with, and long enough to perform essentially on par with the longer gun until the upper limits of the caliber's range. And for the longer range stuff, I've got Hornady 75's that run about 2670 fps out of the 12.5". For me it is a question of why would I want another 2" that I notice up close and don't notice at range where I need it? |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 4:18:24 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty much what mine is, 14.5" 1/7 M4 with Knights RAS, Aimpoint Comp M3/ADM Mount, SSA-E, TRL1-HL and a SOPMOD stock. Love it. I don't like the man in my life. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm personally using and M4 MWS clone as a GP rifle so I voted 14.5". Its compact enough with still decent performance from M193, which is my main ammo supply. The basic M4 with RAS system is hard to beat. Pretty much a clone of my rifle in Iraq minus the M962 light. http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h116/tomcat3020/SANY1038.jpg Pretty much what mine is, 14.5" 1/7 M4 with Knights RAS, Aimpoint Comp M3/ADM Mount, SSA-E, TRL1-HL and a SOPMOD stock. Love it. I don't like the man in my life. I have NFA lowers as well, for me its ballistic issue. I buy a ton of M193 and M855, neither do too well with 10.5" barrels and I don't like having many types of ammo for different rifles. I like compatibility between rifles. I have considered the 12.5" set up but the jury is still out for me. Need to mull it over first. |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 4:21:05 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Other than missing a PEQ-2. That's my exact setup for my second tour in Iraq. lol. Er besides the stock being different. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm personally using and M4 MWS clone as a GP rifle so I voted 14.5". Its compact enough with still decent performance from M193, which is my main ammo supply. The basic M4 with RAS system is hard to beat. Pretty much a clone of my rifle in Iraq minus the M962 light. http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h116/tomcat3020/SANY1038.jpg Pretty much what mine is, 14.5" 1/7 M4 with Knights RAS, Aimpoint Comp M3/ADM Mount, SSA-E, TRL1-HL and a SOPMOD stock. Love it. I don't like the man in my life. My favorite set up also. http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e335/veeklog/Firearms/P1010032_zpsb2ed9f55.jpg Other than missing a PEQ-2. That's my exact setup for my second tour in Iraq. lol. Er besides the stock being different. Its a handy set up with very little draw back.
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Posted: 7/5/2015 6:10:21 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have NFA lowers as well, for me its ballistic issue. I buy a ton of M193 and M855, neither do too well with 10.5" barrels and I don't like having many types of ammo for different rifles. I like compatibility between rifles. I have considered the 12.5" set up but the jury is still out for me. Need to mull it over first. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm personally using and M4 MWS clone as a GP rifle so I voted 14.5". Its compact enough with still decent performance from M193, which is my main ammo supply. The basic M4 with RAS system is hard to beat. Pretty much a clone of my rifle in Iraq minus the M962 light. http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h116/tomcat3020/SANY1038.jpg Pretty much what mine is, 14.5" 1/7 M4 with Knights RAS, Aimpoint Comp M3/ADM Mount, SSA-E, TRL1-HL and a SOPMOD stock. Love it. I don't like the man in my life. I have NFA lowers as well, for me its ballistic issue. I buy a ton of M193 and M855, neither do too well with 10.5" barrels and I don't like having many types of ammo for different rifles. I like compatibility between rifles. I have considered the 12.5" set up but the jury is still out for me. Need to mull it over first. Same here but different approach. I buy Speer GDSP 64g or MK262 77g for my rifles. Those rounds do great out my 12" and 10.5 |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 8:30:26 PM EDT
[#17]
I'm not at the point where I want dupes of barrel lengths. I've seen your builds and you clearly have good sense, but why not go for a PDW, or SPC? something on the fringe of civi practicality.
Otherwise 12.5! |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 9:50:51 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Same here but different approach. I buy Speer GDSP 64g or MK262 77g for my rifles. Those rounds do great out my 12" and 10.5 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm personally using and M4 MWS clone as a GP rifle so I voted 14.5". Its compact enough with still decent performance from M193, which is my main ammo supply. The basic M4 with RAS system is hard to beat. Pretty much a clone of my rifle in Iraq minus the M962 light. http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h116/tomcat3020/SANY1038.jpg Pretty much what mine is, 14.5" 1/7 M4 with Knights RAS, Aimpoint Comp M3/ADM Mount, SSA-E, TRL1-HL and a SOPMOD stock. Love it. I don't like the man in my life. I have NFA lowers as well, for me its ballistic issue. I buy a ton of M193 and M855, neither do too well with 10.5" barrels and I don't like having many types of ammo for different rifles. I like compatibility between rifles. I have considered the 12.5" set up but the jury is still out for me. Need to mull it over first. Same here but different approach. I buy Speer GDSP 64g or MK262 77g for my rifles. Those rounds do great out my 12" and 10.5 That's a good approach but the MK262 can be tough to find. Do you practice with that ammo or just shoot cheap stuff? I'm averaging about 350 rounds of 5.56mm a month in practice ammo, sometimes a bit more. I need more money to be shooting the good stuff! |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 10:16:38 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a good approach but the MK262 can be tough to find. Do you practice with that ammo or just shoot cheap stuff? I'm averaging about 350 rounds of 5.56mm a month in practice ammo, sometimes a bit more. I need more money to be shooting the good stuff! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm personally using and M4 MWS clone as a GP rifle so I voted 14.5". Its compact enough with still decent performance from M193, which is my main ammo supply. The basic M4 with RAS system is hard to beat. Pretty much a clone of my rifle in Iraq minus the M962 light. http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h116/tomcat3020/SANY1038.jpg Pretty much what mine is, 14.5" 1/7 M4 with Knights RAS, Aimpoint Comp M3/ADM Mount, SSA-E, TRL1-HL and a SOPMOD stock. Love it. I don't like the man in my life. I have NFA lowers as well, for me its ballistic issue. I buy a ton of M193 and M855, neither do too well with 10.5" barrels and I don't like having many types of ammo for different rifles. I like compatibility between rifles. I have considered the 12.5" set up but the jury is still out for me. Need to mull it over first. Same here but different approach. I buy Speer GDSP 64g or MK262 77g for my rifles. Those rounds do great out my 12" and 10.5 That's a good approach but the MK262 can be tough to find. Do you practice with that ammo or just shoot cheap stuff? I'm averaging about 350 rounds of 5.56mm a month in practice ammo, sometimes a bit more. I need more money to be shooting the good stuff! You should try CBC 77gr OTM. I am getting very similar accuracy to the MK262, and almost half the price at 58 cents per round shipped. Out of my SR15 Mod1, I'm getting consistent 1-1.25MOA |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 10:25:18 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
my go to AR is 12.5 Yep. Mine is a Noveske barrel with a Surefire SOCOM556 suppressor and a TA33 ACOG. |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 11:59:32 PM EDT
[#21]
All of my personal AR's are 14.5/14.7, both carbine and midlength.
My work gun is an 11.5 inch Colt 6933. Both are going to do what you need them to do for a carbine. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 9:23:00 AM EDT
[#22]
I have a thing for the 14.5 barrels
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Posted: 7/6/2015 5:29:45 PM EDT
[#23]
12.5
Too bad these are unicorns 
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Posted: 7/6/2015 5:56:17 PM EDT
[#24]
14.5
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Posted: 7/6/2015 6:20:23 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a good approach but the MK262 can be tough to find. Do you practice with that ammo or just shoot cheap stuff? I'm averaging about 350 rounds of 5.56mm a month in practice ammo, sometimes a bit more. I need more money to be shooting the good stuff! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm personally using and M4 MWS clone as a GP rifle so I voted 14.5". Its compact enough with still decent performance from M193, which is my main ammo supply. The basic M4 with RAS system is hard to beat. Pretty much a clone of my rifle in Iraq minus the M962 light. http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h116/tomcat3020/SANY1038.jpg Pretty much what mine is, 14.5" 1/7 M4 with Knights RAS, Aimpoint Comp M3/ADM Mount, SSA-E, TRL1-HL and a SOPMOD stock. Love it. I don't like the man in my life. I have NFA lowers as well, for me its ballistic issue. I buy a ton of M193 and M855, neither do too well with 10.5" barrels and I don't like having many types of ammo for different rifles. I like compatibility between rifles. I have considered the 12.5" set up but the jury is still out for me. Need to mull it over first. Same here but different approach. I buy Speer GDSP 64g or MK262 77g for my rifles. Those rounds do great out my 12" and 10.5 That's a good approach but the MK262 can be tough to find. Do you practice with that ammo or just shoot cheap stuff? I'm averaging about 350 rounds of 5.56mm a month in practice ammo, sometimes a bit more. I need more money to be shooting the good stuff! lately I have been using American Eagle 50g Varmint tipped training ammo, at less than 6 bucks a box its pretty cheap. I have one my 12" guns sighted in for the A.E ammo, my other 12" and 10.5 is sighted in for 64g GDSP. At under 100 yards the MK262 and the 64g GDSP dont have such a big difference in POI that it matters. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 9:34:21 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm just used to calling it MOUT. 
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Good thing 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 percent of what people call CQB is not CQB I've been told that technically, CQB is hand to hand combat. CQC is the whole, gun fighting, inside a house type of thing. CQB combines Close Quarters Marksmanship (CQM), team tactics and methods of entry. CQC is a recent rebranding of CQB I'm just used to calling it MOUT.
Same. hehe |
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Posted: 7/7/2015 10:19:05 AM EDT
[#27]
Of the two I would chose 12.5" for a go to rifle as I personally can't see myself shooting out past 100 yards, I own a 11.5" BCM and love it, I wouldn't hesitate to pick up the 14.5" if I needed to put in work out at long distances. Life is to short not to have both options
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Posted: 7/7/2015 11:23:12 AM EDT
[#28]
OP, I voted 14.5... Most of my rifles are pinned 14.5's, a 14.7" middy, and a 16" Recce. I really enjoy the 14.5" barrels for the ease of handling and the entry/exit of vehicles. I only shoot irons and enjoy 200 yards and closer is my forte with the occasion 300 yard day at RiverBend Gun Club. XM193 does great out of my barrels and Fiocchi topped with 77 grain Match Kings and Black Hills with OTM's work fantastic out of the aformentioned. But if I were to go the NFA route, I'd have a 13.5" barreled carbine. Why not split the best of both worlds between 14.5 and 12.5???
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Posted: 7/7/2015 1:57:23 PM EDT
[#29]
Well 14.5 is nice because of the non NFA part, BUT id honeslt prefer a 12.5, actually my dream rifle is a LMT 12 dont get me wrong i love my Knights rifle but i have a soft spot for LMT products. No actual idea why though
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Posted: 7/7/2015 3:08:03 PM EDT
[#30]
A stamp for a 14.5 isn't worth it...just for 1.5 inches
And, to get a perm FH added isn't a good Idea either since you cant change out FHs. I like the ability to put any threaded MB/FH on. Especially since I use different suppressors. So, if you are going to pay for a stamp its better to go shorter. I'd go with a 10 or 11 inch upper and piston set up since its more reliable for SBRs and has less blow back with suppressors. |
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Posted: 7/7/2015 4:25:39 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ------Snipped------ I'd go with a 10 or 11 inch upper and piston set up since its more reliable for SBRs and has less blow back with suppressors. I don't agree with your claim that a piston setup is MORE reliable than direct impingement. My 12" LMT piston SBR nearly beat itself to ruin yet all my properly assembled D.I. guns are all 100%. OP, I voted 12.5" because you did not have an 11.5" box. I've won rifle matches that finished with a 300 yard stages with 10.3" & 11.5" SBR's. All of the guys I beat either had used 14.5" or 16" barreled rifles. Like always: it's the shooter not the barrel length. I prefer 11.5" to all others BUT I could easily be happy shooting a 12.5" SBR. |
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Posted: 7/7/2015 8:34:11 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A stamp for a 14.5 isn't worth it...just for 1.5 inches And, to get a perm FH added isn't a good Idea either since you cant change out FHs. I like the ability to put any threaded MB/FH on. Especially since I use different suppressors. So, if you are going to pay for a stamp its better to go shorter. I'd go with a 10 or 11 inch upper and piston set up since its more reliable for SBRs and has less blow back with suppressors. I have (3) 14.5's and even with my SBR's, it's pretty rare that I'm changing out FH's. Just pick which one works best for your needs and go from there. I own (5) 5.56 suppressors and never found a need to switch them around. Guess I may be different from the norm. Not picking on you specifically but, I have a bunch of friends who also own multiple suppressors and they also are not in the habit of changing out their FH's once they decide on which one serves their purpose. Most of the time, we all just build another upper..LOL.. As for pistons having less blowback with a suppressor, that doesn't seem to be the case from my personal experience. Here's a thread one of my good friends and Site Staff posted a while ago in the piston forum about this very subject. Piston AR's and Suppressors ETA: All three of my 14.5's aren't pinned and I run them on my SBR's lowers. I do have muzzle devices that can be pinned to get me at 16+" but, just never got around to pinning any of them. Either way, I still haven't found the need to change either muzzle device to this date and my oldest 14.5 has right around 16k rounds through it do date. |
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Posted: 7/7/2015 9:55:12 PM EDT
[#33]
Suppressor blowback isn't an issue with the right suppressor
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Posted: 7/7/2015 10:22:21 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A stamp for a 14.5 isn't worth it...just for 1.5 inches And, to get a perm FH added isn't a good Idea either since you cant change out FHs. I like the ability to put any threaded MB/FH on. Especially since I use different suppressors. So, if you are going to pay for a stamp its better to go shorter. I'd go with a 10 or 11 inch upper and piston set up since its more reliable for SBRs and has less blow back with suppressors. Adjustable gas block and proper spring rate and a D.I has no blowback to speak of and is reliable .... plus lighter and is more quiet. |
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Posted: 7/7/2015 10:22:41 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Suppressor blowback isn't an issue with the right suppressor I have had horrible blowback with one rifle and no blowback issues with the same suppressor on a different rifle (the problematic one was a 16 mid and the other was 11.5 carbine) |
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Posted: 7/7/2015 10:32:03 PM EDT
[#36]
I voted 12.5 because of the choices.....
10.5" is what i use though ammo choices now makes it easy to go short. |
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Posted: 7/7/2015 10:34:02 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have had horrible blowback with one rifle and no blowback issues with the same suppressor on a different rifle (the problematic one was a 16 mid and the other was 11.5 carbine) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Suppressor blowback isn't an issue with the right suppressor I have had horrible blowback with one rifle and no blowback issues with the same suppressor on a different rifle (the problematic one was a 16 mid and the other was 11.5 carbine) True as well. Neither of the 16"s had issues, nor does my 12.5" with the SOCOM556 |
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