User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 7/2/2015 6:26:22 PM EDT
Example 1: Guy 1 bought an Andersons Manufacturing M4 (AM) and made the additional upgrades... - Rainier Arms 18" .223 Wylde match grade barrel - Geissele DMR trigger - Hogue overmold AR15/M16 kit (stock, handguard, pistol grip, buffer tube, buffer and spring) - Wilson Combat BCG - Daniel Defense Compensator someone might call this a customized AM AR15. Guy 2 bought an AM lower and upper and also buy the following - AM charging handle - Rainier Arms 18" .223 Wylde match grade barrel - Geissele DMR trigger - Hogue overmold AR15/M16 kit (stock, handguard, pistol grip, buffer tube, buffer and spring) - Wilson Combat BCG - Daniel Defense Compensator and put it together them selves, this would always be described as a Frankengun. What really is the difference? For the most part these guns would be identical. (forget about the exact parts, I don't think anyone would put this combo together. I'm just using them as an extreme example.)
Example 2: Dumb it down. Guy 3 bought the AM M4 and just upgraded the barrel, trigger and BCG. This would be a customized AM M4. Guy 4 bought all AM parts, upper, lower, LPK w/o trigger, stock kit (stock, buffer tube, buffer and spring), handguard, gas block and tube, UPK with charging handle, and then bought the Rainier barrel, Geiselle trigger and WC BCG. Would this be a Frankengun? What really is the difference? These guns would also be identical.
What are your thoughts? Stay Cool 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2015 6:34:18 PM EDT
[#1]
Imo, a build is a build, the parts may not always be hailed unanimously, but it was chosen and assembled none the less. Example blah blah cheap maybe but pretty good end result (like most of mine, I try though)
A Franken again just my opinion. Started it's life as a complete rifle and was added too for better but usually worse. example. Bushmaster carbon, replaced lower with punisher lower , homegrown match trigger job. Black hawk furniture, the weirdest, wildest flash hider for under $50 and a ncstar super sniper red green blue pink abortion, with magpul handguards. Color fill and a bad lever. I don't really consider my builds Franken guns as I had a goal in mind before I started and got as close to it as I could within budget. Franken typically follows a little noobier take on things like taking off your clothes and hip thrusting blindly in the hopes you might stick a woman. My 2 cents |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2015 6:42:48 PM EDT
[#2]
Once you start modding the gun from stock it effectively becomes a Frankenstein gun.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2015 6:46:28 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Imo, a build is a build, the parts may not always be hailed unanimously, but it was chosen and assembled none the less. Example blah blah cheap maybe but pretty good end result (like most of mine, I try though) A Franken again just my opinion. Started it's life as a complete rifle and was added too for better but usually worse. example. Bushmaster carbon, replaced lower with punisher lower , homegrown match trigger job. Black hawk furniture, the weirdest, wildest flash hider for under $50 and a ncstar super sniper red green blue pink abortion, with magpul handguards. Color fill and a bad lever. I don't really consider my builds Franken guns as I had a goal in mind before I started and got as close to it as I could within budget. Franken typically follows a little noobier take on things like taking off your clothes and hip thrusting blindly in the hopes you might stick a woman. My 2 cents Good answer 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2015 6:47:50 PM EDT
[#4]
Its neither custom nor franken, just an AR. Custom is a word used to market, franken was a term used many moons ago to describe rifles put together with parts from different manufacturers but its so common now that even some manufacturers themselves use parts from other companies for their builds. So its just an AR.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2015 6:48:17 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Once you start modding the gun from stock it effectively becomes a Frankenstein gun. True, custom is in the eye of the judge. I see a trash heap, you may see a race ready Honda civic. I see a ruined glock (no real loss), you may see custom texture and undercut. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2015 6:58:37 PM EDT
[#6]
More than just the quality of the parts, is the knowledge of the builder.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2015 8:00:37 PM EDT
[#7]
I see a frankengun as more of mis-match of stuff...example, someone may have a high end barrel but the rest of the parts are cheap (especially optics). The people who either build their AR's or at least buy an assembled upper/lower and choose the rest of the parts generally probably spend time to match the parts, brands, etc. and actually make it a functional rifle.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2015 8:16:59 PM EDT
[#8]
Frankengun can be good or crap. It can be a crap gun made of high quality parts or a very functional gun made of inexpensive parts or any combination there-of. Like Stick mentioned, it has alot to do with the knowledge of the builder. Some of the best guns i have seen are frankenguns... some are complete basket cases.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2015 8:19:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
More than just the quality of the parts, is the knowledge of the builder. This. A good builder makes good quality parts decisions first, and his/her expertise allows him/her to build a rifle that is greater than the sum of its parts. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/2/2015 10:12:02 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. A good builder makes good quality parts decisions first, and his/her expertise allows him/her to build a rifle that is greater than the sum of its parts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
More than just the quality of the parts, is the knowledge of the builder. This. A good builder makes good quality parts decisions first, and his/her expertise allows him/her to build a rifle that is greater than the sum of its parts. You made a funny . |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/3/2015 10:38:03 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Once you start modding the gun from stock it effectively becomes a Frankenstein gun. I have to disagree with this opinion.  I agree with the other folks that it has to do with the builder, but it also has to do with the parts as well. The best marksmen take a high end rifle and make it better than most of us could imagine.
So this is just hypothetical and I don't know enough about ARs to use real world parts or shops (and too lazy to research), just for example: Take a Knights Armament  , replace the barrel with a $5000 or more custom barrel, replace the BCG, buffer and spring spending $2000 or more on the best quality money can buy and add a $1000 trigger job of the same quality (don't forget the PMags  ). All parts put together and assembled by the best gunsmith in the USA at the best shop to your knowledge. I personally would not call that a Frankengun.
And since all the parts should be Milspec, technically they are all the same anyway right (ha, ya right. don't worry, I don't really believe that.) Now there is some grey area when purchasing low to mid grade parts and someone new to guns putting it together and I absolutely agree that there are some odd looking, malfunctioning ARs that would fit into the Frankengun category. As for the car terms, I don't think I would compare the guns I see on here to a Honda, more like taking a 330i and running it down under 12 seconds. You can keep your civic. 
I guess what it come down to is if you appreciate custom build DIY or not and I am a huge DIY guy. DIY FOR LIFE. 
Stay cool
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/3/2015 11:05:23 AM EDT
[#12]
"Custom" and "frankengun" aren't as much about the actual functional utility of the firearm as much as they are labels meant to describe the socio-economic level of who built it. And there's a lot of self puffery in it.
It could be the same gun - identical parts. One modified by changing out the ones originally shipped, the other assembled from individual components. The first was "customized" to sell the image that the owner was exercising their discriminating taste and improved on what the maker originally assembled, making it even better and of more value. The second simply reflects the reality that no overarching Brand name made it, the parts were purchased from sources hundreds of miles apart, and assembled by the owner. It's reverse snobbery. Remember - it could be the exact same gun. It's not really about the parts - it's about what the owner is trying to sell you about him. In the AR nation, most aren't in it for a functional firearm - if so, join an LEO/Mil unit and they will hand you official issue. Done. Nope, what we see in the AR world of buying and building your own is an exercise in social pecking order and where the owner tries to fit in. 2 MOA Is all the gun needs to do - milspec combat standard - .5MOA is the public goal with posted 3 shot groups to prove it. Parked and black is the milspec standard - boron or nitride with coyote furniture is the current leader. GI forgings in H3 black anodizing is the standard, custom billet in cerakote is the leading money today. Nobody shoots a simple issue rifle anymore - but if they do, that's the agenda, I have one and you don't. - which is the unwritten game played, and those with extensive gun racks of variants are deep into it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/3/2015 11:59:53 AM EDT
[#13]
To me, a "franken-gun" is rifle or pistol of historical interest, and priced accordingly, except that it is made from bits and pieces, that may or may not be correct.
Modern guns assembled from a variety of commercially available parts are just modern guns assembled from a variety of commercial parts, no more no less. You can call this "customizing", or you can call it making a rifle to your own personal specifications.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/3/2015 12:35:41 PM EDT
[#14]
With decent quality AR15 platform components, I think the "frankengun" term gets overused and overblown to some degree. Just because one kid didn't build his LEGO stack exactly like the one pictured on the LEGO container, it doesn't mean his stack sucks...LOL! For most of my hot rod life messing with classic small block Chevy's, I seldom had much of anything left from GM when it was done. The AR15 is kind of like the small block Chevy of firearms. You can put them together a million ways and have a million ways to achieve a truly good, effective engine...or rifle.
I recently had a gun store owner throw the "frankengun" card at me. I've known the gentleman for a long time, so it wasn't said in a really mean way. I went to pick up a complete POF 415 lower and LWRC complete upper in M6A2-S purchased from CDNN and sent to his shop for FFL paperwork. While doing the paperwork, he discussed the rifle with me and we even slapped the two together. BTW, this has been an awesome rifle. He pointed out to me that I was going to have a frankengun and would probably take a serious hit on resale value later. He pulled one of his complete LWRC M6A2's off the wall to make his point. That LWRC had a $2295 price tag on it and had only a slightly more expensive handguard mounted to it...and my handguard is a true LWRC handguard that allows that access to the gas piston. Frankly, the trigger in my POF 415 lower is better than that particular LWRC, and I like the ambi feature of the POF lower as well as the LWRC...obviously no flies on the LWRC lower by any means. So...I have $1200 in a complete, up-to-date LWRC factory upper with a complete, factory POF 415 lower...almost exactly half price. I don't think I got screwed on my frankengun.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/3/2015 2:36:31 PM EDT
[#15]
An experienced builder recognizes a problem, or defect, during assembly. A good builder usually has no problem making a Frankengun run well.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/3/2015 4:23:43 PM EDT
[#16]
I guess Custom Built AR would be more appropriate.
And actually, using the name Frankenstein to describe a monster is a misnomer in itself since Frankenstein was the Doctor. Something like Frankenstein's AR15 would be more appropriate. But that sound lame. I guess my issue with the term is that it's too widely used and belittles the DIYers. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2015 10:12:04 AM EDT
[#17]
So this is a real conundrum, here is an FN that comes with Magpul furnature and a Timney trigger.
FN 15 DMR But I would not call that a frankengun. However, if someone was to purchase this one.... FN 15 Rifle and put in a Timney trigger and Magpul furniture it would then be call a frankengun. It makes no sense. I give up. Call what ever you want, what ever you want. I'm call mine a SPR, doesn't matter how or where it was put together, it's gonna be fun and accurate Stay cool.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2015 10:28:45 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have to disagree with this opinion. I agree with the other folks that it has to do with the builder, but it also has to do with the parts as well. The best marksmen take a high end rifle and make it better than most of us could imagine.So this is just hypothetical and I don't know enough about ARs to use real world parts or shops (and too lazy to research), just for example: Take a Knights Armament , replace the barrel with a $5000 or more custom barrel, replace the BCG, buffer and spring spending $2000 or more on the best quality money can buy and add a $1000 trigger job of the same quality (don't forget the PMags ). All parts put together and assembled by the best gunsmith in the USA at the best shop to your knowledge. I personally would not call that a Frankengun.And since all the parts should be Milspec, technically they are all the same anyway right (ha, ya right. don't worry, I don't really believe that.) Now there is some grey area when purchasing low to mid grade parts and someone new to guns putting it together and I absolutely agree that there are some odd looking, malfunctioning ARs that would fit into the Frankengun category. As for the car terms, I don't think I would compare the guns I see on here to a Honda, more like taking a 330i and running it down under 12 seconds. You can keep your civic. I guess what it come down to is if you appreciate custom build DIY or not and I am a huge DIY guy. DIY FOR LIFE. Stay cool Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Once you start modding the gun from stock it effectively becomes a Frankenstein gun. I have to disagree with this opinion. I agree with the other folks that it has to do with the builder, but it also has to do with the parts as well. The best marksmen take a high end rifle and make it better than most of us could imagine.So this is just hypothetical and I don't know enough about ARs to use real world parts or shops (and too lazy to research), just for example: Take a Knights Armament , replace the barrel with a $5000 or more custom barrel, replace the BCG, buffer and spring spending $2000 or more on the best quality money can buy and add a $1000 trigger job of the same quality (don't forget the PMags ). All parts put together and assembled by the best gunsmith in the USA at the best shop to your knowledge. I personally would not call that a Frankengun.And since all the parts should be Milspec, technically they are all the same anyway right (ha, ya right. don't worry, I don't really believe that.) Now there is some grey area when purchasing low to mid grade parts and someone new to guns putting it together and I absolutely agree that there are some odd looking, malfunctioning ARs that would fit into the Frankengun category. As for the car terms, I don't think I would compare the guns I see on here to a Honda, more like taking a 330i and running it down under 12 seconds. You can keep your civic. I guess what it come down to is if you appreciate custom build DIY or not and I am a huge DIY guy. DIY FOR LIFE. Stay cool Meh, I don't associate a negative connotation to the term. Then again I don't sit around much and ponder terminology. But if you really want to delve into the minutia of it....Frankenstein was built from an assortment of body parts....so how is that any different than a box of gun parts being assembled into a gun. Still a "frankengun", how good depends on the parts used and the nut behind the wrench. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2015 10:46:00 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Meh, I don't associate a negative connotation to the term. Then again I don't sit around much and ponder terminology. It's a personal thing, no doubt, but I avoid loaded words as much as possible. If I want to talk about a gun that seems to have been thrown together, I'll say "a gun that looks like it was thrown together." If I want to talk about a gun with parts from a variety of different sources because those parts were on hand, I'll call it a "parts gun." Like some "riced" cars seem to be well thought out - if not at all my cup of tea - the term "ricer" is always derogatory because it implies both a 'looks over function" (or even "clearing the parking lot bumps at Taco Bell!), and an emphasis on specific mods that are of questionable style. Unfinished "customizing jobs" on such cars seem to be the norm where I am, which tends to make me feel more negative about "ricers." The same sorts of things are true in the AR world, though words like "tacticool" are used. Getting a high dollar scope for your gun built with a bargain bin barrel sure looks like "looks over function" to me. But with the term "Frankengun," the baggage isn't even in that category. It's more about implying that the builder is not concerned about the quality of his parts than about anything else. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2015 11:46:41 AM EDT
[#20]
I give levels to "frankengun" as all mine are, but they are all built with quality parts that can be attained easily. So a "frankengun built of quality parts." I would possibly refer to them as "custom" as they have a specific purpose each and are built to my "custom" specifications, but that is only to me. Unless you wanted a gun built exactly as I built it for me, to you it meets the "frankengun with quality parts" threshold.
Custom, historically however, refers to a gun that has had work done to it by hand that there is only one or a very few of. I would be hard pressed to call anything "custom" if I can buy the parts from the usual suspects. "Custom" comes into play when you have a very specific part pr parts modified for an alternate purpose or for aesthetics. In my case I wanted a specific handguard and wanted it to work with the original AA gas piston block. It didn't exist. I hand cut it and fit it to perfectly meet and match the gas block, so I would call my FFHG custom. It is the only one like it, and it's for a specific purpose. So no, neither example you offer deserves the "custom" moniker. "Upgraded," "improved," etc, but certainly not custom despite what a lot of frankenbuilders think of their own work. This is my custom work... 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2015 2:51:03 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I give levels to "frankengun" as all mine are, but they are all built with quality parts that can be attained easily. So a "frankengun built of quality parts." I would possibly refer to them as "custom" as they have a specific purpose each and are built to my "custom" specifications, but that is only to me. Unless you wanted a gun built exactly as I built it for me, to you it meets the "frankengun with quality parts" threshold. Custom, historically however, refers to a gun that has had work done to it by hand that there is only one or a very few of. I would be hard pressed to call anything "custom" if I can buy the parts from the usual suspects. "Custom" comes into play when you have a very specific part pr parts modified for an alternate purpose or for aesthetics. In my case I wanted a specific handguard and wanted it to work with the original AA gas piston block. It didn't exist. I hand cut it and fit it to perfectly meet and match the gas block, so I would call my FFHG custom. It is the only one like it, and it's for a specific purpose. So no, neither example you offer deserves the "custom" moniker. "Upgraded," "improved," etc, but certainly not custom despite what a lot of frankenbuilders think of their own work. This is my custom work... http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u680/jhend170/AR2_zpsd4935712.jpg |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2015 2:56:29 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I DO ponder terminology, since precise wording helps both understanding and knowledge. "Frankengun" has a negative connotation for most people because of the way it crept into usage. Bringing in the Frankenstein imagery helps keep it a negative word. It implies "throwing together whatever parts" to make a complete gun, while "customized rifle" goes in the opposite direction. It's a personal thing, no doubt, but I avoid loaded words as much as possible. If I want to talk about a gun that seems to have been thrown together, I'll say "a gun that looks like it was thrown together." If I want to talk about a gun with parts from a variety of different sources because those parts were on hand, I'll call it a "parts gun." Like some "riced" cars seem to be well thought out - if not at all my cup of tea - the term "ricer" is always derogatory because it implies both a 'looks over function" (or even "clearing the parking lot bumps at Taco Bell!), and an emphasis on specific mods that are of questionable style. Unfinished "customizing jobs" on such cars seem to be the norm where I am, which tends to make me feel more negative about "ricers." The same sorts of things are true in the AR world, though words like "tacticool" are used. Getting a high dollar scope for your gun built with a bargain bin barrel sure looks like "looks over function" to me. But with the term "Frankengun," the baggage isn't even in that category. It's more about implying that the builder is not concerned about the quality of his parts than about anything else. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Meh, I don't associate a negative connotation to the term. Then again I don't sit around much and ponder terminology. It's a personal thing, no doubt, but I avoid loaded words as much as possible. If I want to talk about a gun that seems to have been thrown together, I'll say "a gun that looks like it was thrown together." If I want to talk about a gun with parts from a variety of different sources because those parts were on hand, I'll call it a "parts gun." Like some "riced" cars seem to be well thought out - if not at all my cup of tea - the term "ricer" is always derogatory because it implies both a 'looks over function" (or even "clearing the parking lot bumps at Taco Bell!), and an emphasis on specific mods that are of questionable style. Unfinished "customizing jobs" on such cars seem to be the norm where I am, which tends to make me feel more negative about "ricers." The same sorts of things are true in the AR world, though words like "tacticool" are used. Getting a high dollar scope for your gun built with a bargain bin barrel sure looks like "looks over function" to me. But with the term "Frankengun," the baggage isn't even in that category. It's more about implying that the builder is not concerned about the quality of his parts than about anything else. . I have to agree with GHP. Frankengun definitely has a negative connotation. I've never seen something called "Franken" or "Frankenstein" unless it is meant to be a negative commentary. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2015 3:18:18 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
More than just the quality of the parts, is the knowledge of the builder. True, but its not difficult. I think a person needs to know what quality parts to use as well as why you use a specific part. Ex........ do i use an A2 flash hider or a JP tank brake? do i use a forged lower or a CNC billet one? do i use UTG or Larue rails? and do i need to true the upper receiver to barrel face? its things like that. so if a gun is bubba slapped together with no name stuff its definitely a franken gun. if a person took the time to research and did not buy low grade unknown parts then built it for a reason/purpose then its custom. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2015 3:22:46 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So this is a real conundrum, here is an FN that comes with Magpul furnature and a Timney trigger. FN 15 DMR But I would not call that a frankengun. However, if someone was to purchase this one.... FN 15 Rifle and put in a Timney trigger and Magpul furniture it would then be call a frankengun. It makes no sense. I give up. Call what ever you want, what ever you want. I'm call mine a SPR, doesn't matter how or where it was put together, it's gonna be fun and accurate Stay cool. no it wouldnt be called a franken gun. you miss the point |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2015 3:43:06 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its neither custom nor franken, just an AR. Custom is a word used to market, franken was a term used many moons ago to describe rifles put together with parts from different manufacturers but its so common now that even some manufacturers themselves use parts from other companies for their builds. So its just an AR. Yep |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2015 3:44:11 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
More than just the quality of the parts, is the knowledge of the builder. Stickman would know.....Awesome Stick builder |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2015 3:48:55 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nice mod there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I give levels to "frankengun" as all mine are, but they are all built with quality parts that can be attained easily. So a "frankengun built of quality parts." I would possibly refer to them as "custom" as they have a specific purpose each and are built to my "custom" specifications, but that is only to me. Unless you wanted a gun built exactly as I built it for me, to you it meets the "frankengun with quality parts" threshold. Custom, historically however, refers to a gun that has had work done to it by hand that there is only one or a very few of. I would be hard pressed to call anything "custom" if I can buy the parts from the usual suspects. "Custom" comes into play when you have a very specific part pr parts modified for an alternate purpose or for aesthetics. In my case I wanted a specific handguard and wanted it to work with the original AA gas piston block. It didn't exist. I hand cut it and fit it to perfectly meet and match the gas block, so I would call my FFHG custom. It is the only one like it, and it's for a specific purpose. So no, neither example you offer deserves the "custom" moniker. "Upgraded," "improved," etc, but certainly not custom despite what a lot of frankenbuilders think of their own work. This is my custom work... http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u680/jhend170/AR2_zpsd4935712.jpg this is how I roll also. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2015 3:50:15 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
True, but its not difficult. I think a person needs to know what quality parts to use as well as why you use a specific part. Ex........ do i use an A2 flash hider or a JP tank brake? do i use a forged lower or a CNC billet one? do i use UTG or Larue rails? and do i need to true the upper receiver to barrel face? its things like that. so if a gun is bubba slapped together with no name stuff its definitely a franken gun. if a person took the time to research and did not buy low grade unknown parts then built it for a reason/purpose then its custom. <a href="http://s95.photobucket.com/user/moorerick55/media/franken-gun_zps9maa3xo6.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l157/moorerick55/franken-gun_zps9maa3xo6.jpg</a> Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
More than just the quality of the parts, is the knowledge of the builder. True, but its not difficult. I think a person needs to know what quality parts to use as well as why you use a specific part. Ex........ do i use an A2 flash hider or a JP tank brake? do i use a forged lower or a CNC billet one? do i use UTG or Larue rails? and do i need to true the upper receiver to barrel face? its things like that. so if a gun is bubba slapped together with no name stuff its definitely a franken gun. if a person took the time to research and did not buy low grade unknown parts then built it for a reason/purpose then its custom. <a href="http://s95.photobucket.com/user/moorerick55/media/franken-gun_zps9maa3xo6.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l157/moorerick55/franken-gun_zps9maa3xo6.jpg</a> wow....that's a lot to take in right there. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2015 3:55:10 PM EDT
[#29]
IMO, franken guns are usually misc. random sub-grade parts put together by someone who is not familiar with AR15s nor has access to the correct tools to do so and often with little or no plan for what they're building.
Just because parts are not all from the same manufactured doesn't make it a franken gun. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2015 5:17:34 PM EDT
[#30]
if more than 10 parts were purchased on Ebay
or you dont know who "really" made the parts you're installing.. your building a custom frankengun.. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2015 6:38:05 PM EDT
[#31]
If you're the SELLER, it's a "custom" AR.
If you're the BUYER, it's a "Frankengun". It's that simple, especially when it comes to ARs, which require no special skill to assemble correctly. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2015 7:12:52 PM EDT
[#32]
you dont need special skills but you need to know the design,know how to use the tools required and experience is the best teacher...if you adhere to building specs,parts material specs,if you have common sense,,competancy is the biggest factor in building something that works to something that doesnt or unsafe if you build ground up.I dont count snapping on an upper and building a lower a real test of a competant builder but ive done it but ive also built ground up 100s of times over the last 25 years...nothing beats experience.So every guns a franken gun it just depends on whos building it high or low end
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2015 7:23:17 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
More than just the quality of the parts, is the knowledge of the builder. This would apply more to the upper but even then it's mostly about the parts. Any Joe Schmoe can properly put together a lower. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2015 7:55:01 PM EDT
[#34]
I always separated the two terms by the quality of the parts, and the utility of the final assembly.
If someone buys the cheapest parts, slaps a bunch of useless or low quality parts on it, it's a frankenAR If they get the top shelf items, consider their accessories, and make a high quality and useful weapon, it's a 'custom build". These are two builds I did. What would you say they'd be called? 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/24/2015 1:46:37 AM EDT
[#35]
I would not call those rifles frankenguns. Nor would I call mine. Here are some of the name (some @$$hats on another website were, They will be pissed when I get sub-moa)
-Green mountain -ALG -Wilson Combat -Anderson's -Palmetto state -ATI -Magpul -Rouch - (this is the only questionable brand and the part will be replaced soon, it's a muzzle device from amazon, but I like the look and it got good reviews, so it might stay depending on how well it works.) I plan on a harris bipod and a Vortex scope eventually. Pretty sure it's gonna be a tack driver if I do my part. And it looks good, a friend called it a scary gun, just what I was going for. Then she want to go shooting, ha. I guess I will concede that it's not custom if your just putting parts together. Custom might imply some sort of machining. But I'm going to do a DIY trigger job (not my first one) and I am going to mill off some of the bolt carrier to lighten it up, that is custom work. And I am going to do some paint (subtle red highlight here ad there). But if that is the case then are AKs built at home custom? How does that work? You are bending metal, riveting, milling, sometimes welding. Sounds like to much work for me, I'm pretty lazy. Think I will just put together a 300BLK upper and call it good. How about DIY AR? And to the guy who doesn't ponder - haters gonna hate. Try and be positive and not crap on conversations just because you disagree with people opinion. That's called flaming. Are you a flamer?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/24/2015 2:34:07 PM EDT
[#36]
Please keep this Technical without non-technical silliness. Thanks. - Old_Painless
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/24/2015 3:54:49 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nice mod there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I give levels to "frankengun" as all mine are, but they are all built with quality parts that can be attained easily. So a "frankengun built of quality parts." I would possibly refer to them as "custom" as they have a specific purpose each and are built to my "custom" specifications, but that is only to me. Unless you wanted a gun built exactly as I built it for me, to you it meets the "frankengun with quality parts" threshold. Custom, historically however, refers to a gun that has had work done to it by hand that there is only one or a very few of. I would be hard pressed to call anything "custom" if I can buy the parts from the usual suspects. "Custom" comes into play when you have a very specific part pr parts modified for an alternate purpose or for aesthetics. In my case I wanted a specific handguard and wanted it to work with the original AA gas piston block. It didn't exist. I hand cut it and fit it to perfectly meet and match the gas block, so I would call my FFHG custom. It is the only one like it, and it's for a specific purpose. So no, neither example you offer deserves the "custom" moniker. "Upgraded," "improved," etc, but certainly not custom despite what a lot of frankenbuilders think of their own work. This is my custom work... http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u680/jhend170/AR2_zpsd4935712.jpg Thank you sir. PITA is what is was. Happy with how it came out but that handguard/gas block combination went on and off I bet well over 100 times before it was right. Not only did I want it to fit, but for it to still be free-floated. The HG doesn't touch the gas block anywhere. You can slide about the thickness of a business card anywhere around it between the block and the FFHG. Had AA come out with the XLP system before this was built I would have saved a LOT of time, a lot of cussing, and been shooting a lot sooner. C'est lla vie. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/24/2015 8:16:00 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
no it wouldnt be called a franken gun. you miss the point Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So this is a real conundrum, here is an FN that comes with Magpul furnature and a Timney trigger. FN 15 DMR But I would not call that a frankengun. However, if someone was to purchase this one.... FN 15 Rifle and put in a Timney trigger and Magpul furniture it would then be call a frankengun. It makes no sense. I give up. Call what ever you want, what ever you want. I'm call mine a SPR, doesn't matter how or where it was put together, it's gonna be fun and accurate Stay cool. no it wouldnt be called a franken gun. you miss the point I missed no points. By K1rodeoboater's definition that would be a franken gun. (3rd post, first page). You, sir, missed the point. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/24/2015 8:42:38 PM EDT
[#39]
What's the cost difference between GUY 1's final product vs. GUY 2's?
What's the value of the left over parts after GUY 1's mods? Can they be easily sold? Will they lay around for a "future build?" Will those left over parts eventually result in a Frankengun you don't need? (But you built in anyway because you have the parts?) My $.02 - figure out what you want, order the parts and build it. (If there's something you can't do or don't have the tools - take it to a gunsmith.) I've wasted way too much money buying AR's and changing or upgrading their existing parts with improvements I want. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/24/2015 11:09:37 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you're the SELLER, it's a "custom" AR. If you're the BUYER, it's a "Frankengun". It's that simple, especially when it comes to ARs, which require no special skill to assemble correctly. Pretty much sums up my opinion. Even as a FFL I told customers paying me to modify/build their AR upper the way they wanted was flat out stupid....but I made a lot of money off of those people and had many loyal repeat customers because I was up front and didn't go full retard when it came to labor costs. Next to transfers building/modifying AR's was the easiest money I made for my time. And for repeat customers, to install something simple on an AR I often did it for free. OP to be fair, and I'm not trying to piss in anyone's cheerios, put whatever term on a gun that you want. It either fulfills your needs/desires or it doesn't. It's black and white to me, but I also acknowledge that I'm a bit jaded. I don't give two shits if you've got a gun that's blinged out and tapco-commando'd, if you enjoy it that's all that matters. Don't wrap yourself around the hype and flavour of the month. If you are happy with what you got and you enjoy shooting it that's all that matters. The reality of the situation, even with SHTF builds, is that for the vast majority of shooter and members of ARFCOM AR's are just the adult version of legos/kids toys. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2015 4:41:38 AM EDT
[#41]
If the rifle is constructed from commercially available parts, then it is an ordinary AR...
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/25/2015 1:21:23 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its neither custom nor franken, just an AR. Custom is a word used to market, franken was a term used many moons ago to describe rifles put together with parts from different manufacturers but its so common now that even some manufacturers themselves use parts from other companies for their builds. So its just an AR. I like your analogy and it should be quoted for truth. I've seen manufacturers use Magpul furniture on their builds; quality FF rails of different manufacturer/name/logo than their own; and even Geiselle trigger systems in rifles manufactured by big name guys in this industry. In my opinion this is a win-win for the consumer as the best manufacturer for the individual part is used. Damn near every AR pictured/displayed on this site consist of parts from several, some even as many as 10 or more different manufacturer parts to finish the sum of the complete rifle. A quality AR, built by someone who builds it to spec, using quality in-spec parts, is just as good, (if not better), than a completely made by ( insert brand here), manufactured rifle from my experience. I have or had stock Colt's, Spikes, etc... and I have a MEGA Arms "franken build" that is the most solid performing rifle I own. These are the best days for an AR enthusiast with all the options of parts and mods available! |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/31/2015 8:00:57 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I DO ponder terminology, since precise wording helps both understanding and knowledge. "Frankengun" has a negative connotation for most people because of the way it crept into usage. Bringing in the Frankenstein imagery helps keep it a negative word. It implies "throwing together whatever parts" to make a complete gun, while "customized rifle" goes in the opposite direction. It's a personal thing, no doubt, but I avoid loaded words as much as possible. If I want to talk about a gun that seems to have been thrown together, I'll say "a gun that looks like it was thrown together." If I want to talk about a gun with parts from a variety of different sources because those parts were on hand, I'll call it a "parts gun." ...But with the term "Frankengun," the baggage isn't even in that category. It's more about implying that the builder is not concerned about the quality of his parts than about anything else. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Meh, I don't associate a negative connotation to the term. Then again I don't sit around much and ponder terminology. It's a personal thing, no doubt, but I avoid loaded words as much as possible. If I want to talk about a gun that seems to have been thrown together, I'll say "a gun that looks like it was thrown together." If I want to talk about a gun with parts from a variety of different sources because those parts were on hand, I'll call it a "parts gun." ...But with the term "Frankengun," the baggage isn't even in that category. It's more about implying that the builder is not concerned about the quality of his parts than about anything else. Yet, here's an interesting thing to consider if you ponder terminology and value precise language and meaningful discourse - A truly well-read and erudite person would recognize that Victor Frankenstein was a highly intelligent, if tragic scientist who assembled a being/creation that was considered impossible - moreover, that creation, the "Frankensteinian monster" was also actually an intelligent and sentient being. The "common usage" of "Frankenstein," and by extension, its derivatives (e.g. "Frankengun") is based, rather, on misunderstandings and misrepresentations of both the character himself and his creation, primarily on the part of Hollywood. As such, the use of the term "Frankengun" as an allusion meant to disparage the creator and creation as deranged, archetypical mad-scientist, and stupid, lumbering, and mismatched respectively, really just exposes the speaker as ill-informed and lacking in knowledge, and making cultural and literary references based on material they don't actually understand, merely parroting commonly repeated misinterpretations and misinformation based on what they've been exposed to in popular culture, rather than making an informed statement based on actual knowledge and understanding. In which case, when someone calls your gun a "Frankengun," who is the joke really on? ~Augee |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/31/2015 9:58:18 PM EDT
[#44]
Victor was intelligent, but he states that his plan was to make a "better" creation than his Creator. He over reached, and his creation became known for his horror rather than his mechanical improvements. The vernacular connotation of "Frankenstein" is not one of "boy, that was one smart cookie," but really more about how his creation failed to live up to expectations - in a horrific manner. Smart people aren't always big on common sense, sadly.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/31/2015 10:32:00 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Victor was intelligent, but he states that his plan was to make a "better" creation than his Creator. He over reached, and his creation became known for his horror rather than his mechanical improvements. The vernacular connotation of "Frankenstein" is not one of "boy, that was one smart cookie," but really more about how his creation failed to live up to expectations - in a horrific manner. Smart people aren't always big on common sense, sadly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Victor was intelligent, but he states that his plan was to make a "better" creation than his Creator. He over reached, and his creation became known for his horror rather than his mechanical improvements. The vernacular connotation of "Frankenstein" is not one of "boy, that was one smart cookie," but really more about how his creation failed to live up to expectations - in a horrific manner. Smart people aren't always big on common sense, sadly. We're reaching out into left field and off topic here -
Quoted:
I DO ponder terminology, since precise wording helps both understanding and knowledge. "Frankengun" has a negative connotation for most people because of the way it crept into usage. Bringing in the Frankenstein imagery helps keep it a negative word. It implies "throwing together whatever parts" to make a complete gun, while "customized rifle" goes in the opposite direction. It's a personal thing, no doubt, but I avoid loaded words as much as possible. If I want to talk about a gun that seems to have been thrown together, I'll say "a gun that looks like it was thrown together." If I want to talk about a gun with parts from a variety of different sources because those parts were on hand, I'll call it a "parts gun." ...But with the term "Frankengun," the baggage isn't even in that category. It's more about implying that the builder is not concerned about the quality of his parts than about anything else. But, no, his creation did not live up to Victor's expectations; nevertheless, one would be hard pressed to accuse him of "throwing together" his creation, which he worked diligently on -- nor would the comparison, correctly interpreted convey that "the builder is not concerned about the quality of his parts" - or, the implication there being, the final product. It also flies in the face of "Frankensteinian builders" being lacking in knowledge - overreaching, hubristic, ambitious, immoral, perhaps; or tragic, romantic, traumatized - Victor was not stupid, certainly cared about the quality of his creation, being just a little... upset when it didn't live up to his expectations and desires. Again, the point being that the "vernacular connotation" of Frankenstein is flawed, because it's based on oft repeated misinformation, i.e. Hollywood portrayals, not to argue that "Frankengun" is a positive term, but simply that "I do not think that word means what you think it means." The general bent being that builders of "Frankenguns" are generally lacking in knowledge and skill, and that their creations are haphazardly assembled with little to no regards for quality, either of components or final product, and can only create the gun equivalent of a "dumb beast" does not fit the allusion. I simply find a bit of irony in the fact that a reference based on not being well-informed is being used to attack others for not being informed. Anyways, again, off topic and way out there, but I could keep going on forever about misused references and idiomatic phrases in everyday vernacular and linguistic constructions and literary references like it was my job... ...wait...
~Augee |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/1/2015 3:36:35 AM EDT
[#46]
Like Dr. Frankenstein, Augee has raised this thread from the dead.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/1/2015 8:58:00 AM EDT
[#47]
So i just built/assembled an AR with all Aero Precision parts but i added in all the extras that I likes. ambi controls grips stocks what ever. So Id say I customized this rifle to my liking. Which could really be said about every AR. You buy a base lower and customize the rest to your liking..
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/1/2015 9:03:25 AM EDT
[#48]
It is certainly a negative description, and I don't have one that is any more kind.
I have several that I assembled. It certainly did not save me any money, I simply have them put together the way I want, with the parts I want. Out of a dozen, I have several that wear complete uppers that I purchased, because they were what I wanted. Still, because they are on a lower that I assembled, it is a Frankengun
I like my lowers with a Gieselle trigger, an enhanced trigger guard, a B5 or VLTOR, a Sprinco spring and a heavy buffer. So, if I buy a complete rifle, and change all these parts out, it's not a Frankengun. So, I burn money, but I get elite status for having a factory rifle LOL. Once the SBR bug bites, assembling them is the way to go. If I had bought 6 complete SBRs like I have, the wait would be crazy, and I could not have gotten a couple of them in the configurations that I have. I enjoy assembling them, and modifying. It is a big part of the whole thing for me. It is clear, that some here haphazardly acquired any part that would fit, and stuck the rifles together earning the name Frankengun. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/1/2015 2:38:06 PM EDT
[#49]
I consider all of my rifles except one Frankenguns. I don't actually know if they are or not and I don't care of they are. I like all my rifles.
 </a>" />
6.8 SPC II; I built this one. Anderson upper and lower, CMC 5 pound flat trigger. Bison Recon 16" bead blast. UTG PRO Slim Keymod in gunmetal gray and magpul furniture in gray, Vortex Strikefire, Troy Claymore brake, AIM 6.8 BCG.  </a>" />
5.56/.223 that I built. My first bid actually. Spikes Honey Badger lower, not sure who made the upper. UTG Pro slim handguard, ACE skeleton stock, magpul grip, ALG ACT trigger, Bushnell TRS 25, Magpul AFG, ARMS 71f/r BUIS and a YHM Slant Brake, AIM V2 NIB BCG.  </a>" />
Windham Weaponry WW-15. This was my first rifle it was after this I started building them. I don't consider this I've a Franken build when though I added squad rail a cheap Sightmark red dot and a VFG. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/1/2015 3:04:18 PM EDT
[#50]
When looking at a rifle, if your first impressions can be summarized as "What kind of inbred pillow-biter would do that to an AR?", it's a "Frankengun".
If your more concerned with the type of grip, etc or whether you'd ever choose to cerakote/paint something in that color, it's a "custom build". |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
