my answer to the do it all carbine...... AKA the near end of 20 years of experience with the AR - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - my answer to the do it all carbine...... AKA the near end of 20 years of experience with the AR (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 5/27/2015 1:24:16 AM EDT

[#1]

Thanks AR-Ryan21. I will check them out.

Posted: 5/27/2015 1:24:49 AM EDT

[#2]

Thanks AR-Ryan21. I will check them out.

Posted: 5/27/2015 7:13:58 AM EDT

[#3]

One of the best benefits of a can is flash reduction.

Posted: 5/27/2015 8:16:38 AM EDT

[#4]

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"Budget" is highly subjective.

I got my last two AAC Mini 4s for around $500 shipped. I consider that "budget" for a quality 5.56 can.

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Do they make a Budget Can?

I can't wait to see the response to this!

"Budget" is highly subjective.

I got my last two AAC Mini 4s for around $500 shipped. I consider that "budget" for a quality 5.56 can.

Where? I'm looking to buy either a mini 4 or saker k

ETA for the sake of being on topic, my personal requirements for a "do it all" (not going to happen) carbine are:

1) quality manufacturer such as LMT, BCM, Colt, DD, Noveske, KAC, ect
2) Non magnified optic + magnified (This could be an ACOG/RMR combo or EOTech or AP + magnifier combo... maybe a good 1-6 depending on what type of mood i'm in)
3) Back up sights
4) Free Float Rail
5) Light
6) Sling
7) Short enough to use easily while inside a vehicle but long enough to be good out to approx 400 (I like 11.5 or 12.5)

Stocks, triggers, grips, VGs, muzzle devices, ect are a matter of personal preference.

Pic since we are obviously doing pics now. Easily my favorite rifle right now

Posted: 5/27/2015 8:28:11 AM EDT

[#5]

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http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ7ofFjYyXT6o8iAgKSNdxY7Mvuwgj7GWdGh_YwSr-AGg3Y2ANi
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dXihLnAx_tw/maxresdefault.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXihLnAx_tw

My humble opinion. Would not want to do a long range patrol with that rifle. Having an attachment point for a light if you need it, and keeping the light on your LBE / vest is one thing. Keeping two lights perma attached to your rifle at all times is just not for me. I mean, how heavy is that rifle set up like that? Must be at least 9 pounds, a 20" A2 is handier.

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um this x11,000.

My do it all rifle.. a DDM4v5, light in my bag or on my belt. some fixed irons (batteries not required), and maybe a VFG, maybe. i mean are you planning on roaming around shining those lights everywhere you go, are you going to be clearing houses getting some CQ action every other day? don't get me completely wrong. NV is good and so is das laizer.

Posted: 5/27/2015 8:32:06 AM EDT

[#6]

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um this x11,000. My do it all rifle.. a DDM4v5, light in my bag or on my belt. some fixed irons (batteries not required), and maybe a VFG, maybe. i mean are you planning on roaming around shining those lights everywhere you go, are you going to be clearing houses getting some CQ action every other day? don't get me completely wrong. NV is good and so is das laizer.

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http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ7ofFjYyXT6o8iAgKSNdxY7Mvuwgj7GWdGh_YwSr-AGg3Y2ANi
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dXihLnAx_tw/maxresdefault.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXihLnAx_tw

My humble opinion. Would not want to do a long range patrol with that rifle. Having an attachment point for a light if you need it, and keeping the light on your LBE / vest is one thing. Keeping two lights perma attached to your rifle at all times is just not for me. I mean, how heavy is that rifle set up like that? Must be at least 9 pounds, a 20" A2 is handier.

um this x11,000. My do it all rifle.. a DDM4v5, light in my bag or on my belt. some fixed irons (batteries not required), and maybe a VFG, maybe. i mean are you planning on roaming around shining those lights everywhere you go, are you going to be clearing houses getting some CQ action every other day? don't get me completely wrong. NV is good and so is das laizer.

sorry i misinterpreted the title. this is a do it all, not a survival rifle.

Posted: 5/27/2015 9:43:18 AM EDT

[#7]

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FIN

Put a RIS ii on that thing

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I disagree about the stamp portion.

TLR goes on at 12:00 - don't use it for general daytime range use

http://i.imgur.com/YV8ai87.jpg

FIN

Put a RIS ii on that thing

I like the weight of the C4 better

Posted: 5/27/2015 9:45:28 AM EDT

[#8]

Or if suppression is needed I'll roll with this

Posted: 5/27/2015 9:47:58 AM EDT

[#9]

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My idea of a do it all gun is way outside my budget right now, I spent all my scheckles on several "do one thang" guns. Oh well.....I'm sure someone has built it up, I can just fap to their Pr0n

Always a fun topic OP thanks for posting.....

12.5" barrel
FF MLOK rail like the ALG EMR v3 if they made a shortie
Some sort of bitching $$$$ variable scope like a Mk8, Vcog, Short dot etc.
ATPIAL-C
Surefire Scout
Specwar K can or similar shortie can
SSA trigger

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Pretty similar to my idea of a general purpose "do all" carbine with a few little differences.

14.5 barrel
Geissele rail of some sort
1x4 or 1x6 variable - Maybe with an offset Insight MRDS
ATPIAL-C/PEQ-15
Surefire Scout Ultra
Mini can

Maybe one of these days....

Posted: 5/27/2015 9:51:51 AM EDT

[#10]

Has WMLir. Only thing missing is a laser.

Posted: 5/27/2015 9:52:48 AM EDT

[#11]

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I like the weight of the C4 better

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Quoted:
I disagree about the stamp portion.

TLR goes on at 12:00 - don't use it for general daytime range use

http://i.imgur.com/YV8ai87.jpg

FIN

Put a RIS ii on that thing

I like the weight of the C4 better

The C4 does seem lighter off of the rifle... something like a 2-3oz difference depending on if you get the 9" or 10" c4 but the smaller diameter of the RIS II makes it my choice. I've had both on my rifles and think both are good but my personal preference lies with the RIS II (by a pretty significant margin)

Posted: 5/27/2015 9:58:38 AM EDT

[#12]

I really like the ALG V2 I put on one of the 10.5's.

The small diameter and weight is outstanding

Posted: 5/27/2015 1:02:27 PM EDT

[#13]

What do you think

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I think that there is a lot going on there. I think that I would find a way to simplify that carbine a bit (starting with getting rid of the BAD lever).

Posted: 5/27/2015 1:10:24 PM EDT

[#14]

Sounds like it works for you. I have zero need for such a beast so a clone is not in my future. I'm a KISS guy:

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Posted: 5/27/2015 1:28:45 PM EDT

[#15]

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http://cdn2.armslist.com/sites/armslist/uploads/posts/2013/10/01/2174303_03_wilcox_raptar_lite_es_640.jpg

The raptar weighs 10 oz. light, laser, IR las, IR illu all in one.

directly screws into the 1/4-20 holes on top of your kac rail (has an adapter piece for rails without)

check out TNVC they are cheap now, you can sell your other lights to make up cost.

eta- the IR illuminator might be a little weak if you are using a gen 2 monoc. Its a class 1 laser illuminator

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You're talking $1300 cheap?

Posted: 5/27/2015 4:50:21 PM EDT

[#16]

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I take it you've never shot suppressed? If you have you would understand. I never shoot my AR's unsuppreseed anymore. If you get the right can you will only be adding less than a pound.

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No stamps = Fail

Needs 10.3 to 12.5 barrel and a can on the end.

I have no problem with a 14.5 or even 16 middy. Im wearing a set of TCI's with comms so I don't really care about the noise. Cans are heavy. Never really got the appeal of cans, although they look really cool. I must be unenlightened.

I take it you've never shot suppressed? If you have you would understand. I never shoot my AR's unsuppreseed anymore. If you get the right can you will only be adding less than a pound.

And for me it would mean jail time.

Posted: 5/27/2015 4:57:23 PM EDT

[#17]

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Where? I'm looking to buy either a mini 4 or saker k

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Do they make a Budget Can?

I can't wait to see the response to this!

"Budget" is highly subjective.

I got my last two AAC Mini 4s for around $500 shipped. I consider that "budget" for a quality 5.56 can.

Where? I'm looking to buy either a mini 4 or saker k

Kentucky Gun Co during a sale they did last year. I had Silencer Shop match their price, and got another one from them as well.

You just gotta keep an eye out. I think there's also a dealer people reference in one of the Class 3 Armory forums that regularly sells AAC cans at insane prices. Cherokee something I believe.

Posted: 5/27/2015 9:59:47 PM EDT

[#18]

Swapping optics mounts and someday I will be able to afford NVG/IR.

For now, this is my ideal setup.

Posted: 5/27/2015 10:11:07 PM EDT

[#19]

Hey op you need one of these to complete the trifecta

this is my contribution, i dont need anything else on my rifle.

Posted: 5/27/2015 10:28:37 PM EDT

[#20]

OP is ghey for ruling out NFA

Posted: 5/27/2015 10:55:57 PM EDT

[#21]

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OP is ghey for ruling out NFA

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agreed

Posted: 5/27/2015 11:07:50 PM EDT

[#22]

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agreed

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OP is ghey for ruling out NFA

agreed

I don't even do non NFA ARs anymore. Even my 14.5s are all SBRs. The only 16" AR platform rifle I still have is my LMT AR-10 - and even that has a dedicated can - so it's still an NFA equipped rifle.

Only NFA stuff excites me these days. Not even remotely interested in anything else.

Posted: 5/28/2015 2:35:21 AM EDT

[#23]

Needs more SBR

Posted: 5/28/2015 4:13:46 AM EDT

[#24]

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I don't even do non NFA ARs anymore. Even my 14.5s are all SBRs. The only 16" AR platform rifle I still have is my LMT AR-10 - and even that has a dedicated can - so it's still an NFA equipped rifle.

Only NFA stuff excites me these days. Not even remotely interested in anything else.

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Quoted: OP is ghey for ruling out NFA

agreed

I don't even do non NFA ARs anymore. Even my 14.5s are all SBRs. The only 16" AR platform rifle I still have is my LMT AR-10 - and even that has a dedicated can - so it's still an NFA equipped rifle.

Only NFA stuff excites me these days. Not even remotely interested in anything else.

41P is gonna suck then.

Not everyone can do NFA, nor is everyone interested in letting Uncle know when they're crossing state lines.

Posted: 5/28/2015 8:54:43 AM EDT

[#25]

I tell Uncle Sam that I'll be in AL between 1/1/15 and 12/31/15.

Send a letter once a year, costs me $0.48

Other than that TN has all the shootin places I need

Posted: 5/28/2015 9:29:29 AM EDT

[#26]

OP. Ride what you bring to the fight. If it works for you then go for it.

Posted: 5/28/2015 10:22:50 AM EDT

[#27]

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41P is gonna suck then.

Not everyone can do NFA, nor is everyone interested in letting Uncle know when they're crossing state lines.

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Quoted: OP is ghey for ruling out NFA

agreed

I don't even do non NFA ARs anymore. Even my 14.5s are all SBRs. The only 16" AR platform rifle I still have is my LMT AR-10 - and even that has a dedicated can - so it's still an NFA equipped rifle.

Only NFA stuff excites me these days. Not even remotely interested in anything else.

41P is gonna suck then.

Not everyone can do NFA, nor is everyone interested in letting Uncle know when they're crossing state lines.

Exactly. Nor is everyone interested in perpetuating the system by kneeling and asking for permission to do something they should have every right to do. Just my $0.02.

Also, kinda tired of the passive-aggressive "I don't need anything on my rifle" stuff. It's the new tacticool.

/rant over.

Posted: 5/28/2015 7:16:11 PM EDT

[#28]

Kudos to you for having a "do it all carbine" that extends into the NV/IR spectrum. A lot of folks never take that last step.

My only regret is that it took me so long to buy my own NV... but that's stuff's not cheap.

IMHO, I'd dump the TLR-2-IR and pick up an ATPIAL-C or DBAL-A3, either is better designed for long-gun use in pretty much every way, and would meet your requirements, though they're a little pricier than your current option.

~Augee

Posted: 5/29/2015 7:11:11 PM EDT

[#29]

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Kudos to you for having a "do it all carbine" that extends into the NV/IR spectrum. A lot of folks never take that last step.

My only regret is that it took me so long to buy my own NV... but that's stuff's not cheap.

IMHO, I'd dump the TLR-2-IR and pick up an ATPIAL-C or DBAL-A3, either is better designed for long-gun use in pretty much every way, and would meet your requirements, though they're a little pricier than your current option.

~Augee

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budget is a killer in the nv side, I am thinking about dumping the tlr-2ir and most likely moving it to a handgun, but I am thinking changing the rifle in the OP to just the eotech, a tlr V/IR 300 lumens white & 100-120 meters ir illum and a crimson trace railmaster in IR. my biggest obstacle is I have paralysis in my left hand
and must be able to locate &activate switches with my numb fingers. . this is the same reason my NVD is on a psgt helmet I can do all the adjusting with my right hand.

Posted: 5/30/2015 10:07:35 AM EDT

[#30]

re-krylon'd the C4..... no sense in dressing it up like a RIS

in "grab n go" mode

DSC_6157.JPG by The Dorsal Fin, on Flickr

Posted: 5/30/2015 11:56:13 AM EDT

[#31]

Op one of the best lessons I've learned from arfcom is that mission drives equipment

No need for 2 flashlights if your wearing nods then the ir stuff goes on if not leave it off

Posted: 5/30/2015 10:28:06 PM EDT

[#32]

Closest I get to do-it-all (sling goes on with qd's but not pictured):

Posted: 5/31/2015 4:00:15 PM EDT

[#33]

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Op one of the best lessons I've learned from arfcom is that mission drives equipment

No need for 2 flashlights if your wearing nods then the ir stuff goes on if not leave it off

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"Mission Creep."

Missions can change and you don't always have a chance to swap. Good IR LAMs are usually light and unobtrusive enough to be mounted, zeroed, and left on the weapon 24-7.

Optimizing a weapon to favor the most likely/most common mission and circumstances is sensible, but it also usually makes sense to have your weapon be capable of other things in a pinch, even if they're not the best at them.

I've never really understood the whole "if I need them, I'll put them on concept" when it comes to things like lights to begin with. I've seen a lot of people say things like "I have a light I can put on it if I ever need it." Same goes with NV gear.

I understand things like dedicated night optics, or big and heavy CNVDs, but not with lights and IR lasers.

The OP does not have "two flashlights" as I understand it, in the conventional sense of having two white lights, but a white light and an IR laser and illuminator module, no different in concept than having an AN/PEQ-2A or DBAL-I2 Single Spectrum, just a more "budget" version.

The OP's point is that this is a "grab and go" gun that can "do it all," not a "what should I bring to the range today? I should pack appropriately" gun.

~Augee