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Posted: 5/25/2015 12:19:40 PM EDT
Well I spent 30 min typing a response and my original thread got locked 15 minutes before I submitted and lost it all ...lol
Thanks for all the input from all people in the locked thread So this is short and sweet this time. I have been shooting 45 plus and reloading 30 plus. I have many guns of different calibers long and short and they all stay clean and shoot well. No complaints from any. I go to the range 2-3 times a week. No commando. I've pieced together a build (still on the bench) over the last few months and could not do so for less then $600 bucks watching the sales off and on at my local dealer, PSA, CDNN, etc. Been watching complete prices for the last year or so. Bought the Carbon on impulse...my bad 
I load my 223/5.56 bolt never max but on the hot side. Here is the last question (I hope) on this subject. Should I shoot it for awhile or immediately change the lower out for the brand new stripped Anderson Arms lower ($50) sitting on my bench. Will this be ok/decent/acceptable/wrong,,,,or what? Thanks again. Tim |
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Posted: 5/25/2015 12:37:32 PM EDT
[#1]
To keep it cheap and reliable (like the original intention), I would just immediately swap out the lower with your AA one, and the upper with a cheap flattop upper (Anderson, DSA, etc) and call it a day.
I feel like the upper is the bigger weaker part of the two items, and not to re-open the closed thread, just reference that, and the old threads on these uppers and lowers. You got the rifle for cheap, just invest 100 bucks more with a real upper and lower and you got a decent rifle. |
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Posted: 5/25/2015 12:38:29 PM EDT
[#2]
Do not use polymer where aluminum is required.
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Posted: 5/25/2015 12:44:46 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Should I shoot it for awhile or immediately change the lower out for the brand new stripped Anderson Arms lower ($50) sitting on my bench. Will this be ok/decent/acceptable/wrong,,,,or what? Thanks again. Tim You would still have the polymer upper in play. So it would be the proverbial silk purse/sow's ear sort of thing. The AR receivers were never designed to be of polymer. |
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Posted: 5/25/2015 12:45:18 PM EDT
[#4]
So It's not a straight lower swap thing?
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Posted: 5/25/2015 12:52:33 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So It's not a straight lower swap thing? I suppose you could swap out the lower only but you would still have a polymer upper in play. Perhaps change out the upper also, as a poster above suggested if these parts have commonality with normal AR parts. (ie. barrel extension threads, receiver extension threads, etc.) |
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Posted: 5/25/2015 1:00:39 PM EDT
[#6]
Thanks guys. I didn't do as bad as I originally thought...maybe
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Posted: 5/25/2015 1:09:08 PM EDT
[#7]
If it isn't going "into harms way" just shoot it until either the upper or lower fails.
If it's being used for serious business, install an aluminum upper & lower. |
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Posted: 5/25/2015 2:18:45 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it isn't going "into harms way" just shoot it until either the upper or lower fails. If it's being used for serious business, install an aluminum upper & lower. I assume we are talking about the Bushmaster Carbon 15 rifle in this thread? I bought one on sale today from CDNN and my thinking is exactly this. If, and when, the upper or lower receiver fails, I will rebuild the thing on milspec uppers and lowers - and I know about the castle nut issue with the threads too. So much for space-age materials being so wonderful, huh? |
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Posted: 5/25/2015 2:38:31 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I will rebuild the thing on milspec uppers and lowers - and I know about the castle nut issue with the threads too. Care to share this bit of intel with the OP ? |
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Posted: 5/25/2015 4:49:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it isn't going "into harms way" just shoot it until either the upper or lower fails. What if the upper fails catastrophically and you lose half your face? I don't see why people gamble with these things. I wouldn't shoot anything but a 22lr out of a poly receiver set. |
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Posted: 5/25/2015 5:07:56 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it isn't going "into harms way" just shoot it until either the upper or lower fails.
If it's being used for serious business, install an aluminum upper & lower. This. And keep your off-hand off the magwell, no matter what type of lower you have. |
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Posted: 5/25/2015 5:13:05 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What if the upper fails catastrophically and you lose half your face? I don't see why people gamble with these things. I wouldn't shoot anything but a 22lr out of a poly receiver set. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: If it isn't going "into harms way" just shoot it until either the upper or lower fails. What if the upper fails catastrophically and you lose half your face? I don't see why people gamble with these things. I wouldn't shoot anything but a 22lr out of a poly receiver set. People are printing Colt 901LE lowers and shooting .308" Winchester. When a Carbon 15 upper fails, it's probably going to break @ the castle nut. If you dump gas through it, it's going to fail similarly to an aluminum upper. |
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Posted: 5/25/2015 5:22:30 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 5/25/2015 7:44:10 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Change out the receivers for this Anderson set. Keep the carbon/polymer parts for a .22LR setup. This seems like good advice. I'll call AIM in the morning and see if they have a current copy of my FFL's license on hand so I can place an order for this set. When I see good advice on this board, I usually take it. |
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Posted: 5/25/2015 8:59:24 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Change out the receivers for this Anderson set. Keep the carbon/polymer parts for a .22LR setup. Now that is what I need to hear...not that any other posts are not helpful. I appreciate all this and even more advice, tips, fixes, mods, etc... 
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Posted: 5/25/2015 9:09:18 PM EDT
[#16]
Besides the forward assist and dust cover assy parts what else? Barrel nut?
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Posted: 5/25/2015 9:52:35 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Besides the forward assist and dust cover assy parts what else? Barrel nut? Posts @ 9:52 and 11:38 elude to parts commonality with standard receivers. Seems to me that there is something different about the barrel nut on a C-15. In any event, you need to verify compatible threading at both ends of your receivers. Some of the plastic receivers have plastic FCG's (trigger assemblies). You need to verify what you have to work with. Ditch any plastic stuff. The good thing is that now is a good time to be buying AR parts. Prices are low. Keep this thread going and we will help you find the best deals on what you need. |
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Posted: 5/25/2015 10:10:46 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To keep it cheap and reliable (like the original intention), I would just immediately swap out the lower with your AA one, and the upper with a cheap flattop upper (Anderson, DSA, etc) and call it a day. I feel like the upper is the bigger weaker part of the two items, and not to re-open the closed thread, just reference that, and the old threads on these uppers and lowers. You got the rifle for cheap, just invest 100 bucks more with a real upper and lower and you got a decent rifle. Thanks I appreciate it
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Posted: 5/26/2015 6:11:00 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it isn't going "into harms way" just shoot it until either the upper or lower fails. If it's being used for serious business, install an aluminum upper & lower. Wouldn't work for me. I treat or buy every firearm as if it will need to save my life in some horrid post-event world. I know there are lots of things that could easily trigger it at any moment, where I can go from enjoying a normal day to 'Oh Shit.' I also know it's unlikely to happen in my lifetime. 
Still, how lame (and useless to me) is a gun that would probably break if I sat on it... |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 7:23:51 AM EDT
[#20]
Should I shoot it for awhile or immediately change the lower out for the brand new stripped Anderson Arms lower ($50) sitting on my bench. Will this be ok/decent/acceptable/wrong,,,,or what?
Certainly no harm in running the lower til it fails. I picked up a stripped Anderson lower last month to replace a poly lower I've used for years, never had an issue til the poly FCG failed. But decided not to wait til it failed to replace it, so I did it when it was convenient. I have enough rifles that a failure won't slow me down, but I'm done with polymer parts, the cost savings isn't there any more. And has been mentioned multiple times before, the upper takes more stress than the lower, that should be replaced first. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 12:21:35 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now that is what I need to hear...not that any other posts are not helpful. I appreciate all this and even more advice, tips, fixes, mods, etc...
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Change out the receivers for this Anderson set. Keep the carbon/polymer parts for a .22LR setup. Now that is what I need to hear...not that any other posts are not helpful. I appreciate all this and even more advice, tips, fixes, mods, etc...
I broke a Bushy Carbon 15 upper removing the barrel. Really cheap brittle plastic. I have an old real Carbon 15 that was made in Arizona right after Bushmasters hostile takeover of the original Carbon 15. For what it is (very light weight 16" carbine) it is a great gun. The different in the polymer is huge. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 12:39:08 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I broke a Bushy Carbon 15 upper removing the barrel. Really cheap brittle plastic. I have an old real Carbon 15 that was made in Arizona right after Bushmasters hostile takeover of the original Carbon 15. For what it is (very light weight 16" carbine) it is a great gun. The different in the polymer is huge. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Change out the receivers for this Anderson set. Keep the carbon/polymer parts for a .22LR setup. Now that is what I need to hear...not that any other posts are not helpful. I appreciate all this and even more advice, tips, fixes, mods, etc... I broke a Bushy Carbon 15 upper removing the barrel. Really cheap brittle plastic. I have an old real Carbon 15 that was made in Arizona right after Bushmasters hostile takeover of the original Carbon 15. For what it is (very light weight 16" carbine) it is a great gun. The different in the polymer is huge. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 12:59:07 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The old carbon15s had a weird proprietary bolt or carrier, I forget which, and seemed to have a lot of problems. I never knew they used different plastic, that's interesting. It would not surprise me that Remington used old melted up frisbee's instead of whatever the original plastic was Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Change out the receivers for this Anderson set. Keep the carbon/polymer parts for a .22LR setup. Now that is what I need to hear...not that any other posts are not helpful. I appreciate all this and even more advice, tips, fixes, mods, etc...
I broke a Bushy Carbon 15 upper removing the barrel. Really cheap brittle plastic. I have an old real Carbon 15 that was made in Arizona right after Bushmasters hostile takeover of the original Carbon 15. For what it is (very light weight 16" carbine) it is a great gun. The different in the polymer is huge. I wonder if any of them are made out of actual carbon fiber, or if they are all just polymer derivatives they are calling carbon fiber? Windham Weaponry's carbon 15 rifles seem to have more positive reviews with no complaints from breaking that I can see. They must use something different. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 3:22:22 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wonder if any of them are made out of actual carbon fiber, or if they are all just polymer derivatives they are calling carbon fiber? Windham Weaponry's carbon 15 rifles seem to have more positive reviews with no complaints from breaking that I can see. They must use something different. As far as I can tell, the problem w/ both Bushmaster & Windham's Carbon models is they're simply using individual carbon fibers dumped into a polymer matrix as lightweight filler, making a lighter polymer receiver, rather than using carbon fiber fabric cut to fit and molded into a particular shape. So they're not getting any benefit from the strength of carbon fiber. The only thing that boggles me about Windham's offering is they're using an M4 style bbl, whereas Bushmaster is @ least using a pencil bbl. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 3:45:56 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As far as I can tell, the problem w/ both Bushmaster & Windham's Carbon models is they're simply using individual carbon fibers dumped into a polymer matrix as lightweight filler, making a lighter polymer receiver, rather than using carbon fiber fabric cut to fit and molded into a particular shape. So they're not getting any benefit from the strength of carbon fiber. The only thing that boggles me about Windham's offering is they're using an M4 style bbl, whereas Bushmaster is @ least using a pencil bbl. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I wonder if any of them are made out of actual carbon fiber, or if they are all just polymer derivatives they are calling carbon fiber? Windham Weaponry's carbon 15 rifles seem to have more positive reviews with no complaints from breaking that I can see. They must use something different. As far as I can tell, the problem w/ both Bushmaster & Windham's Carbon models is they're simply using individual carbon fibers dumped into a polymer matrix as lightweight filler, making a lighter polymer receiver, rather than using carbon fiber fabric cut to fit and molded into a particular shape. So they're not getting any benefit from the strength of carbon fiber. The only thing that boggles me about Windham's offering is they're using an M4 style bbl, whereas Bushmaster is @ least using a pencil bbl. Bushmaster also offers a model with an M4 profile barrel. I know, it doesn't make sense to put a heavier barrel profile on something you would want to be as light as possible to justify buying a carbon receiver in the first place. I'd be interesting in seeing an actual carbon fiber AR made with the carbon fiber fabric actually cut to fit and molded into shape. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 5:32:26 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bushmaster also offers a model with an M4 profile barrel. I know, it doesn't make sense to put a heavier barrel profile on something you would want to be as light as possible to justify buying a carbon receiver in the first place. I'd be interesting in seeing an actual carbon fiber AR made with the carbon fiber fabric actually cut to fit and molded into shape. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: As far as I can tell, the problem w/ both Bushmaster & Windham's Carbon models is they're simply using individual carbon fibers dumped into a polymer matrix as lightweight filler, making a lighter polymer receiver, rather than using carbon fiber fabric cut to fit and molded into a particular shape. So they're not getting any benefit from the strength of carbon fiber. The only thing that boggles me about Windham's offering is they're using an M4 style bbl, whereas Bushmaster is @ least using a pencil bbl. Bushmaster also offers a model with an M4 profile barrel. I know, it doesn't make sense to put a heavier barrel profile on something you would want to be as light as possible to justify buying a carbon receiver in the first place. I'd be interesting in seeing an actual carbon fiber AR made with the carbon fiber fabric actually cut to fit and molded into shape. I don't think the AR upper and lower receivers lend themselves to carbon fabric construction, due to their shapes. Think car hoods and fenders. There is a carbon-fiber wrapped bbl company, which claims to give HB performance out of a near pencil weight bbl. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 9:13:02 PM EDT
[#27]
The one I have coming in a couple days has the M4 barrel. I almost cancelled today before the shipment went out. I decided to take it. Thinking about shooting it awhile then trading the upper and lower for aluminum and build a polymer 22LR later. I should have studied it more before buying it but now I guess we will see how it does for awhile under warranty. |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 1:51:12 AM EDT
[#28]
Numrich had a bunch of Carbon parts they were blowing out a while back. I would almost swear that I didn't buy a couple of pinned-FH barrels because the description said something about the barrel nut being Carbon-specific. But that is the sum total of my knowledge of swapping out the receivers. Except that I would do so by returning or reselling the entire Carbon 15.
Unless you got it for well under $450 it isn't worth it. These are the cheap-ass AR-buying days, right now. But don't listen to me. I hope it runs well for you. |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 11:18:24 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The old carbon15s had a weird proprietary bolt or carrier, I forget which, and seemed to have a lot of problems. I never knew they used different plastic, that's interesting. It would not surprise me that Remington used old melted up frisbee's instead of whatever the original plastic was Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Change out the receivers for this Anderson set. Keep the carbon/polymer parts for a .22LR setup. Now that is what I need to hear...not that any other posts are not helpful. I appreciate all this and even more advice, tips, fixes, mods, etc...
I broke a Bushy Carbon 15 upper removing the barrel. Really cheap brittle plastic. I have an old real Carbon 15 that was made in Arizona right after Bushmasters hostile takeover of the original Carbon 15. For what it is (very light weight 16" carbine) it is a great gun. The different in the polymer is huge. Mine has a normal bolt but the carrier has the tail end cut off and a proprietary buffer/ spring setup. It cycles fast so I keep good mags in the thing. I bore scoped the barrel and the chamber is right in the middle and looks to be a Wylde or variant. No problems with 5.56 loads. As an example of one mine has been flawless, but I don't think I have more than 1000rnds through the gun. I didn't buy it for a heavy duty carbine. I had visions of packing it, in addition to my bolt gun, when calling coyotes. Never did. 
Recycled Frisbees might be a better choice than what Bushy is using now. That upper snapped with hardly any flex. Stuff is very brittle. |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 11:54:37 AM EDT
[#30]
I will just add further to this thread that I have an Anderson Arms upper and lower receiver pair on the way from AIM as a backup for this rifle.
I am a professor of engineering technology at a small school. We also have a plastics engineering department. I debate with those guys all of the time about polymers and carbon fibers. They seem to think that there is a perfect polymer for EVERY situation. I have told them that to get the hardness to maintain a given shape (like the AR-15 uppers) they end up brittle and fracture at different points due to the geometry of the designed piece. The plastics professors just say that the polymer involved was poorly designed and a well-designed polymer would work just fine. These guys refuse to admit that aluminum and steel are BETTER for some applications. Also, remember the ArmaLite AR-180B that they made about ten years back? These had polymer lower receivers and they had the unfortunate habit of having the front lugs on the lower receiver snap off where the bolt attaching the upper and lower receiver went through. I recently bought one of the aluminum receivers that NoDak Spud made as a lower replacement for these rifles and it is just great. Excellent fit ant finish. Now my AR-180B could last many years with care. And it is a much more solid rifle with the metal lower receiver on it. I will agree with the plastics professors about fishing rods though. My ultra-light one-piece six-foot graphite-boron composite rod is a big improvement over the older rods of ten-fifteen years ago. And they are not too brittle either. But these are a long way from being AR-15 uppers and they don't have the shear forces and impulse forces of the AR15 hitting them either. |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 12:53:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We also have a plastics engineering department.
I debate with those guys all of the time about polymers and carbon fibers. They seem to think that there is a perfect polymer for EVERY situation. I have told them that to get the hardness to maintain a given shape (like the AR-15 uppers) they end up brittle and fracture at different points due to the geometry of the designed piece. The plastics professors just say that the polymer involved was poorly designed and a well-designed polymer would work just fine. These guys refuse to admit that aluminum and steel are BETTER for some applications. One of the issues w/ plastic receivers (the Carbon-15s included) is that if made for sale, the public expects it to LOOK like an AR-15 on the OUTSIDE. If made of plastic, it should look like an AR-15 on the INSIDE, and the outside should be much bulkier. The 3-D printing folks have basically solved this problem in the lower by making the receiver extension/buffer tube boss into a very large block on the rear of the lower. Perhaps that's what your fellow professors mean - but they're not designing for the consumer market. |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 1:08:30 PM EDT
[#32]
I think I read somewhere that this one has an aluminum upper (it looks exactly like my DPMS upper). I wouldn't be to worried. I'm building one with an EP Armory plastic lower just as a goof, just to see how it holds up. I'm sure they don't ALL break, I mean THOUSANDS of polymer lowers have been sold.
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Posted: 5/27/2015 2:03:16 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I will just add further to this thread that I have an Anderson Arms upper and lower receiver pair on the way from AIM as a backup for this rifle. I am a professor of engineering technology at a small school. We also have a plastics engineering department. I debate with those guys all of the time about polymers and carbon fibers. They seem to think that there is a perfect polymer for EVERY situation. I have told them that to get the hardness to maintain a given shape (like the AR-15 uppers) they end up brittle and fracture at different points due to the geometry of the designed piece. The plastics professors just say that the polymer involved was poorly designed and a well-designed polymer would work just fine. These guys refuse to admit that aluminum and steel are BETTER for some applications. Also, remember the ArmaLite AR-180B that they made about ten years back? These had polymer lower receivers and they had the unfortunate habit of having the front lugs on the lower receiver snap off where the bolt attaching the upper and lower receiver went through. I recently bought one of the aluminum receivers that NoDak Spud made as a lower replacement for these rifles and it is just great. Excellent fit ant finish. Now my AR-180B could last many years with care. And it is a much more solid rifle with the metal lower receiver on it. I will agree with the plastics professors about fishing rods though. My ultra-light one-piece six-foot graphite-boron composite rod is a big improvement over the older rods of ten-fifteen years ago. And they are not too brittle either. But these are a long way from being AR-15 uppers and they don't have the shear forces and impulse forces of the AR15 hitting them either. Armalite's 180B lower receivers were made by the then Cav Arms and was very high quality and durable polymer (they made the only polymer lowers worth a damn IMHO). I have one of the AR180Bs and the lower is very durable, and won't break. I put it through a torture test and tried to break it (store I bought it from had 30 day return policy). I froze it in water at 4 degrees and tried to buttstroke the gun to death on concrete. It did not break. I also unhinged the lower and tried exerting force on it that way to get it to break, no such luck. What happened was Cav Arms had a bad batch of polymer that got released with the rifles, making the lowers more brittle. This bad batch is what caused the problems. It was not every single 180B issued. |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 2:10:13 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Armalite's 180B lower receivers were made by the then Cav Arms and was very high quality and durable polymer (they made the only polymer lowers worth a damn IMHO). I have one of the AR180Bs and the lower is very durable, and won't break. I put it through a torture test and tried to break it (store I bought it from had 30 day return policy). I froze it in water at 4 degrees and tried to buttstroke the gun to death on concrete. It did not break. I also unhinged the lower and tried exerting force on it that way to get it to break, no such luck. What happened was Cav Arms had a bad batch of polymer that got released with the rifles, making the lowers more brittle. This bad batch is what caused the problems. It was not every single 180B issued. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I will just add further to this thread that I have an Anderson Arms upper and lower receiver pair on the way from AIM as a backup for this rifle. I am a professor of engineering technology at a small school. We also have a plastics engineering department. I debate with those guys all of the time about polymers and carbon fibers. They seem to think that there is a perfect polymer for EVERY situation. I have told them that to get the hardness to maintain a given shape (like the AR-15 uppers) they end up brittle and fracture at different points due to the geometry of the designed piece. The plastics professors just say that the polymer involved was poorly designed and a well-designed polymer would work just fine. These guys refuse to admit that aluminum and steel are BETTER for some applications. Also, remember the ArmaLite AR-180B that they made about ten years back? These had polymer lower receivers and they had the unfortunate habit of having the front lugs on the lower receiver snap off where the bolt attaching the upper and lower receiver went through. I recently bought one of the aluminum receivers that NoDak Spud made as a lower replacement for these rifles and it is just great. Excellent fit ant finish. Now my AR-180B could last many years with care. And it is a much more solid rifle with the metal lower receiver on it. I will agree with the plastics professors about fishing rods though. My ultra-light one-piece six-foot graphite-boron composite rod is a big improvement over the older rods of ten-fifteen years ago. And they are not too brittle either. But these are a long way from being AR-15 uppers and they don't have the shear forces and impulse forces of the AR15 hitting them either. Armalite's 180B lower receivers were made by the then Cav Arms and was very high quality and durable polymer (they made the only polymer lowers worth a damn IMHO). I have one of the AR180Bs and the lower is very durable, and won't break. I put it through a torture test and tried to break it (store I bought it from had 30 day return policy). I froze it in water at 4 degrees and tried to buttstroke the gun to death on concrete. It did not break. I also unhinged the lower and tried exerting force on it that way to get it to break, no such luck. What happened was Cav Arms had a bad batch of polymer that got released with the rifles, making the lowers more brittle. This bad batch is what caused the problems. It was not every single 180B issued. Thanks. Good to know the story now. In truth, I still have the original lower on one of my two AR-180B rifles. I bought the new NoDak Spud metal lower to keep as backup insurance originally. Apparently, ArmaLite did a much better job on the AR-180B than Bushmaster has done on the Carbon 15. By the way, I like my AR-180B rifles quite a bit. I don't know why ArmaLite discontinued them. |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 3:18:34 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks. Good to know the story now. In truth, I still have the original lower on one of my two AR-180B rifles. I bought the new NoDak Spud metal lower to keep as backup insurance originally. Apparently, ArmaLite did a much better job on the AR-180B than Bushmaster has done on the Carbon 15. By the way, I like my AR-180B rifles quite a bit. I don't know why ArmaLite discontinued them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I will just add further to this thread that I have an Anderson Arms upper and lower receiver pair on the way from AIM as a backup for this rifle. I am a professor of engineering technology at a small school. We also have a plastics engineering department. I debate with those guys all of the time about polymers and carbon fibers. They seem to think that there is a perfect polymer for EVERY situation. I have told them that to get the hardness to maintain a given shape (like the AR-15 uppers) they end up brittle and fracture at different points due to the geometry of the designed piece. The plastics professors just say that the polymer involved was poorly designed and a well-designed polymer would work just fine. These guys refuse to admit that aluminum and steel are BETTER for some applications. Also, remember the ArmaLite AR-180B that they made about ten years back? These had polymer lower receivers and they had the unfortunate habit of having the front lugs on the lower receiver snap off where the bolt attaching the upper and lower receiver went through. I recently bought one of the aluminum receivers that NoDak Spud made as a lower replacement for these rifles and it is just great. Excellent fit ant finish. Now my AR-180B could last many years with care. And it is a much more solid rifle with the metal lower receiver on it. I will agree with the plastics professors about fishing rods though. My ultra-light one-piece six-foot graphite-boron composite rod is a big improvement over the older rods of ten-fifteen years ago. And they are not too brittle either. But these are a long way from being AR-15 uppers and they don't have the shear forces and impulse forces of the AR15 hitting them either. Armalite's 180B lower receivers were made by the then Cav Arms and was very high quality and durable polymer (they made the only polymer lowers worth a damn IMHO). I have one of the AR180Bs and the lower is very durable, and won't break. I put it through a torture test and tried to break it (store I bought it from had 30 day return policy). I froze it in water at 4 degrees and tried to buttstroke the gun to death on concrete. It did not break. I also unhinged the lower and tried exerting force on it that way to get it to break, no such luck. What happened was Cav Arms had a bad batch of polymer that got released with the rifles, making the lowers more brittle. This bad batch is what caused the problems. It was not every single 180B issued. Thanks. Good to know the story now. In truth, I still have the original lower on one of my two AR-180B rifles. I bought the new NoDak Spud metal lower to keep as backup insurance originally. Apparently, ArmaLite did a much better job on the AR-180B than Bushmaster has done on the Carbon 15. By the way, I like my AR-180B rifles quite a bit. I don't know why ArmaLite discontinued them. Back when Armalite still had a discussion forum here, they said that the labor cost to create the folded sheet metal uppers was cost prohibitive to being able to continue to produce them as a lower price point rifle to the AR, as they were designed to be. Ironically, technology has caught up, and now due CNC machines, etc forged aluminum receivers are cheaper to produce than stamped steel ones, it used to be the polar opposite. |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 7:24:41 PM EDT
[#36]
Brand new in box with 4 mags
After rebate it came in at $450 No fwd assist or dust cover,... So I don't know what year it was made. Anybody? |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 7:33:30 PM EDT
[#37]
I wish that I knew what I need exactly to do a straight upper/lower swap.
Will the BCG work? Buffer tube? Barrel nut? etc... |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 7:54:09 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wish that I knew what I need exactly to do a straight upper/lower swap. Will the BCG work? Buffer tube? Barrel nut? etc... Why even buy it if you're just going to swap out the carbon fiber components? Can just buy a new S&W Sport for under $550 shipped, you'll be over that in price if you plan to swap out receivers on the $450 rifle you just bought. I'd keep it as is, or sell it if you're unhappy with it and buy something else. |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 8:25:26 PM EDT
[#39]
It shipped and should be here tomorrow.
By the way....how do I upload a pic from my desktop? |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 8:54:17 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It shipped and should be here tomorrow. By the way....how do I upload a pic from my desktop? Pic process I use.... Take pic Save it to file on my 'puter (make it easy to find) Resize the massive image file with Irfanview (free) and save it back in file with the original (RE-NAME IT) Upload re-sized pic to Tiny Pic (free image hosting site) Photobucket is another Then copy & paste the IMG code into your post here on Arfcom. You can try uploading to Tiny Pic without re-sizing....they may be auto-re-sizing now. If not just re-size to 800 x 600 MAX before uploading to Tiny Pic....640 x 480 is another good size This may seem convoluted if you've never done this, but it's second nature once you've done it a few times. This is 800 x 600.... Memorial Day Memphis Ribs 
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Posted: 5/27/2015 9:34:00 PM EDT
[#41]
I still can't understand why anybody would be drawn to the Carbon 15. These days price can't even be a factor given all of the other options available for the same price or slightly less. Even if you don't want anything to do with PSA you can do so much better for the same amount of money. If you just have to have a Bushmaster, you can get this complete upper for $349.99 and this stripped lower with complete build kit for $179.88.
I just don't see any value in the Carbon 15 @$499 or even $450 after rebate when a "real" Bushmaster can be had for $529 or something from PSA that is far better than the Carbon 15 can be had for $400-500. Friends don't let friends buy plastic ARs. |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 9:52:29 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I still can't understand why anybody would be drawn to the Carbon 15. These days price can't even be a factor given all of the other options available for the same price or slightly less. Even if you don't want anything to do with PSA you can do so much better for the same amount of money. If you just have to have a Bushmaster, you can get this complete upper for $349.99 and this stripped lower with complete build kit for $179.88. I just don't see any value in the Carbon 15 @$499 or even $450 after rebate when a "real" Bushmaster can be had for $529 or something from PSA that is far better than the Carbon 15 can be had for $400-500. Friends don't let friends buy plastic ARs. New AR buyers that haven't done their research get caught in the C-15 trap, is how I would characterize it. Shame on Bushmaster for continuing to offer these to the public. |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 11:24:35 PM EDT
[#43]
AC I don't have to have any certain brand.
I just seen the price and jumped. I have learned it is the least desirable after coming here especially.
So with that said I have two other brands I am building....in the last month I have completes and pieces for 3 complete ARs......... or 2 1/2 (or whatever)including the Carbon. Now I am just gonna try to lick my wounds and do what I think I should do. Forgive me guys. Think I have around $1,500 in all 3 minus optics for one, |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 11:30:25 PM EDT
[#44]
Thanks Direct Drive!
I have photobucket. Will look at the other site. Like me some ribs.
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Posted: 5/28/2015 12:07:59 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
AC I don't have to have any certain brand.
I just seen the price and jumped. I have learned it is the least desirable after coming here especially.
So with that said I have two other brands I am building....in the last month I have completes and pieces for 3 complete ARs......... or 2 1/2 (or whatever)including the Carbon. Now I am just gonna try to lick my wounds and do what I think I should do. Forgive me guys. Think I have around $1,500 in all 3 minus optics for one, Just glad you were able to learn something but sorry you got burned in the process. Hate seeing the unsuspecting getting taken by the POS that is the Carbon 15, asking about it after the fact and having internet "experts", trying to defend their brand, tell them that they "did fine" and made a good purchase or that it was an excellent deal for the price. Really wish Bushmaster would quit selling the damn thing or at least sell it at an appropriate price, like ~$300. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 3:43:05 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wish that I knew what I need exactly to do a straight upper/lower swap.
Will the BCG work? Buffer tube? Barrel nut? etc... No need to swap anything unless it breaks. Everything should carry over w/ the possible exception of the bbl nut, and they're cheap. Shoot it, when you get a .22" LR upper or bolt run it on that, just don't do bayonet drills and don't depend on it for SD/HD. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 3:44:07 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Really wish Bushmaster would quit selling the damn thing or at least sell it at an appropriate price, like ~$300. If they did that, everyone on ARFCOM would buy them for parts. 
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Posted: 5/30/2015 2:56:32 AM EDT
[#48]
Well I got it today. TR25 Red Dot installed. Bore Sighted. Off to the range daylight. Not cuttin it any slack.
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Posted: 5/30/2015 10:36:42 PM EDT
[#49]
Took it out today. Ran a couple hundred rounds thru it. Was hitting 16 oz water bottles @100yds shortly after setting the red dot with the daughter.
She had a ball busting water bottles.
Gonna see what kinda range gun it really is first hand. |
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Posted: 5/30/2015 10:40:59 PM EDT
[#50]
Direct Drive.......
Just pulled a tenderloin of the grill tonite. Slathered in mustard, massaged with butt rubb, packed with cream cheese and diced jalapenos. Turned out nice. 
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