I am for the idea of a separate pics section if you are taking votes

I asked for a separate forum a few years ago because the looky looky threads were clogging up the tech discussion.

But to tell you the truth, just let them stay.

We have ran off or shamed most of the knowledge base and the forum has turned into a gathering place for fanboi contest that end up with nonsensical invalid emotional arguments.

Sad as it is, the picture threads are really the only thing that keeps the traffic up.

Lol, I was thinking the same thing. Take away the pic/clone treads and this sub forum would probably decrease by half.

 
Anyway, separate picture sub forum would be nice

I figure simply having a photo sub forum will work for everything.

ARs

AKs

SKS

Handguns

Glock

Beretta

etc...


All under a photo subforum.

Are they going to fix it?  In my Mini Recce thread that you want to move there are some great examples of the limited size in the 2 most recent pic posts.

I see the community is divided.  Making an AR General subforum is a good idea, I suppose.  Saying that we already have a GD sub should not be in this discussion.  Posting AR related ANYTHING in GD is a surefire way for for you to lose new members, as they navigate that minefield.

I hate to see AR Discussions divided, as the traffic is all on this page.

This is probably the truth of the matter.

Isn't that what the "always hoppin'" "Troubleshooting," "Cleaning and Maintenance," "Build It Yourself," and "Rifles, Uppers, Lowers, and more" sections are supposed to be?

::shrug::

I think some of the interest in the "clone threads" and "specialty rifle type" threads from the people that don't necessarily actively participate in them is the fact that they're a place to discuss ARs as a [groan] "system" or "platform" - not just in the clone threads - but the SPR, Recce, Mini-Recce, threads, etc. - is the only place that you can talk about systems integration - you can discuss the merits and shortfalls of various optics for different roles, you can discuss which slings work best with which kinds of setups, you can discuss how to integrate different lights - recently, there've even been inroads into integration of night fighting equipment and techniques -- all which would be banished to a sub-forum, and discussed in isolation without a clear discussion of how all those things work together.  

I'm not sure how much more "technical discussion" there is to have about a fifty-five year old system where most of the "new developments" are things that have already been tried a generation ago (midlength, piston, etc.) if we've already banished discussion of history (Retro and A2), Troubleshooting, Maintenance, Assembly, and every category of accessory or major component to sub-forums already.  Seems to me that the only thing left to discuss that is remotely technical is systems integration - of which there are certain categories of "builds" that people naturally want to "belong" to (which is why there's so much heartache over wanting to be included in, e.g. the MK 18 thread while not building an actual clone of a MK 18 or CQBR) - at which point they naturally want to show off their work, which in a visual input based society, and visual input based medium (computer screens) lends itself to wanting to see pictures.  



I agree with this, but would add that unfortunately in this kind of situation - traffic is the only thing that keeps some of the knowledge base cycling through.  

The natural tendency of people is to seek validation.  We can discuss whether or not that's the right way to live ad infinitum - but it's going to be a part of the natural life-cycle of being the largest AR discussion community around.  

Accessibility is really the only way to maintain the circulation of "new blood," most of it will be worthless, but there will be some good stuff in there - there are places to go if you want more exclusivity and "vetting" and to talk with only "acknowledged experts" -- and you're choices are to either get hazed and "pay your dues" and "prove" yourself to the long-time membership - or you'll be expected to keep your mouth shut and be a wallflower until the membership has decided you've been "humble enough" and absorbed enough of the "company line" to become a "full" member of their community.  

While ARFCOM may have a tendency of eventually "running off" knowledge base who get sick of some of the antics here - IMHO, communities like that are instant turn-off to even trying - and all of the knowledge and information is still lost -

Think of it this way -

If I'm a recent veteran who's been using an AR-family rifle in combat for the last ten years in a rotating door of deployments and train-up, and have a wealth of experience and information - conflicts are now winding down, reductions in force are on the horizon, and it's time to get out - but I'm looking for a community of enthusiasts to join - but when I attempt to join, I'm told that I need to "prove" myself to guys who got out and haven't had a round come their way in anger in a decade, and more frustratingly - their slobbering entourages who think because they've spent $3,000 on a rifle and $10,000 in "courses," that they can "basically do anything that SOF can," but have never eaten a cold MRE on a mountaintop at 0300 between taking security shifts on a '240 - and that I'm "not a serious war-fighter" because I don't swap out major components bi-annually to shave another half-ounce off my rifle, and how my optic's "going to get [me] killed" by folks who wouldn't know an individual movement technique or how to call in a timely and accurate report if it bit them in the ass.  

Yeah... that's really what I want to do...

Seriously, I'm a chronic degree seeker and an academic, I should be definition of elitism - but I can't hold a candle to some of what goes on in gun forums...

Anyways, this has turned into a rant, so I'm stopping now...

~Augee

I have to agree with this. The clone/pic threads probably wouldn't be on top as much if they weren't filled with GD-esque nonsense. There was a time recently when it seemed like we could police our own and keep most of the posts tech related, but that seems to have stopped.

I used to, and sometimes still want a clone forum (mostly due to the above), but Augee did a good job explaining the downsides to that approach. Further fragmenting our community isn't going to help anyone in the long run.

It seems like a lot of those clone threads get moved to GD anyway. I like the idea of having a clone forum, because it's not something I'm particularly interested in, but there are already a lot of sub forums. And some of those sub forums want other sub forums, who want other sub forums etc.

I would be okay with consolidating some of the forums, so there isn't 18 sub forums just for one rifle platform.

Might I make another suggestion?

I think one of the things cluttering the clone threads, and the Retro forum as well - has been the WTS/WTB ads which annoy me as well.

Could there not be a tacked combined WTB/WTS thread in the EE for certain specialty interest groups?

That is to say, somewhere in the EE - put, say a "SOPMOD WTB/WTS/WTT Marketplace Thread" where anyone that wants to build a SOPMOD clone can post items openly for sale - ask if anyone has a particular item, or leads to an item, and offer and negotiate trades?

It would require some "rule making" to insofar as posting a WTB versus "first come, first served" WTS ads, as well as "auctioning," but I think it would cut down on a lot of the clutter of "does anywhere know where to get this?"  and "does anyone have this for sale" and "I'm about to put this on the EE..." which leads to a lot of the clutter and massive page growth with little to no substance or information shared.  

Once all the EE-type traffic is eliminated from the clone threads - the rest that could be left is actual discussion of technical specs, utilization, and systems integration... and, of course, the occasional gun porn.  

It would break some of the "normal" EE rules, but with clone threads approaching thousands of pages, some on their third or fourth iterations - it seems clear that they're popular, like 'em or not - and may merit a little bit of special consideration.  

~Augee

+1 and yea those pic size restrictions suck.

 

I vote to keep pic threads here.

I like 'em fine where they are.

a good idea

I think a pic forum is a good idea

This wouldn't such a bad problem if the mods follow thru with what they say and delete the WTB/WTS/etc posts in those threads. If they say it's not allowed and dont do anything about it, then whats the point?

The same goes for the different pic reads. Move them ALL to their respective forums, or don't move any of them. DD to their industry forum, BCM to their forum, Bushmaster to theirs. And move the colored threads (OD/coyote/foliage/burnt bronze/) to the refinishing forum instead it just the painted rifle threads.

Without a doubt, certain threads are moved for personal and not "professional" reasons.

Jumping in this thread late, I wouldn't mind a photo thread section for firearms. I look at the 1911, revolver, Sig Rifles, Dissi, Pistion, AR variants, Precision bolt and precision semi-auto threads, as well as the high end optics and trijicon threads. I use them for entertainment, and sometimes research.

Don't move them.

On second thought, let's have a pic only forum. I just wanna look at sick-ass blasters!

That rule works great for the C&R picture thread in their forum.

I can't be alone in thinking that simply adding a forum JUST for pictures could in any way either "dilute" the forums or make it difficult for folks to actually find picture threads.  Quite the opposite.  I think it would make things simpler, easier to use, and clearer.

There are currently 12 "Basics" forums in the AR-15 community.  There's a whole lot of overlap among a bunch of them, such as between Variants and Rimfire/Pistol Caliber, and between Pistols and Rimfire/Pistol Caliber.  No sweat there.  Adding another forum for picture threads would be pretty clear, pretty obvious, and act as a central point for "AR-15 Whatever" p0rn.  I'm not seeing anything about eliminating posting pictures elsewhere, unless I've missed something pretty badly.  I am envisioning a place where the threads like "Aero, M4E1, M5E1, COP Picture thread...", "AR15 High Quality Photos Pic Thread!! ",  and "M4A1 SOPMOD Block II clone picture thread " could all be found together.  I do think there's a question or two to answer though.  There are several "X Picture and Discussion" threads...where would they go, and how would they be managed?

In general, aside from folks who hit "submit" faster than their common sense kicks in ( ), we're all savvy enough to see "this is where picture threads go," and figure out pretty quickly how to adapt.  I think it's doable.  And if it doesn't work, it can be undone, too.

+1

That rule kinda killed the C&R pic thread

I agree that the photo threads should have a subforum. It'll be easier to navigate through them all this way.

I fucking hate dirt shooters.  I love shooters who are interested in the craft and want to better themselves.

This forum is stock full of dirt shooters who have never zeroed a rifle and yet will tell you that you are a fool for not having the right kind of gas block retention pin in your socom block 2.1 ubcttgr.  Look at good discussions or topics that can help new shooters or people who actually want to better themselves.  They sink to the bottom while dudes show off safe queens back and forth while re-asking the same few gear related questions over and over almost always gear and never skill base questions.  Most on this forum care way too much about the shit in green and not nearly enough about the soft skills that made that instructor or most great shooters great.  I know guys who will shoot better with some PTAC rifle that folks on here would laugh at than others with the best military clone someone can buy just because they have spent the time on shooting guns and not shooting mouths.  

Im all about putting the picture threads together.  I think the forum should adopt the system of having an intro page (IE the one that VA has pinned at the top that every one needs to make a first post in.  I like when forums do that and it stops people from starting a thread to introduce themselves.

Above poster nailed it

Prior to me posting this comment, there's 15 picture threads before this thread. That pretty much sums it up, doesn't it? I think having those threads in AR Discussions fragments the community more.

This is not an issue with picture threads. It would just be nice if they had a dedicated home.

I vote move 'em.

AR Variant subforum has a tacked thread to picture threads.

Your welcome.

People want the picture threads, but they don't want 15 picture threads on the 1st page

Solution=

Move ALL picture threads to ONE forum.

Have ONE tacked topic in each forum that links to the the threads, NO matter which forum it is.




That way when its bumped with pictures it just bumps other picture threads, not a technical thread.

You should still get the traffic, but only one thread to go through in each forum.


The only problems is mods will have to add/update the tacked thread.

That's fine but all the picture threads are on the same forum, and when it bumps, its bumps off tech threads

I vote for a picture / clone sub forum as long as it's still in the AR section.

I would want photo threads to stay where they are now.  Tech data, for me, is gathered from the photos.

I'm down with a new forum just for photo threads!

I think this would be a good idea.

Double

I think it's a great idea!

Me too.

hmm

on one hand, its annoying to see how cluttered the ar discussion sub forum is, but augee also has some very good points....

i say move them to their own subforum, but still in the ar section, like the retro and a2 subs

as of right now, 8 of the 22 threads on page 1 are pic threads, and 3 are almost, or are past 1000 pages

I look at most of the picture threads but I don't like that they take up so much room on the first page sometimes.  I would like them to be moved to their own section/ category or maybe a sub category for a specific section if that is possible.

My short reply is NO.

People already don't know where the Optics, NFA/SBR/Suppressor etc, GD, Training, NV, refinishing, gear, ammo, etc subforums are, so I am not sure how moving the megathreads will improve anything regarding the "purity" of Tech discussion here. I would contend that the Recce, SPR, and Clone threads have more tech discussion than most of the rest of the posts in the forum.

Strip out the clone, SPR, Recce, and photo threads, and what do you have? Random clone questions right below the actual clone megathread, "is x brand any good?", "I blew up my gun", and "my gun's broke" threads.

RARELY, we get the threads that actually have analysis based on roundcounts. Maybe some old literature or stories from LtCol Lutz or someone with an actual hand in the M16/M4 development. Maybe a Molon thread about barrels and accuracy.

Do you know what you are really left with? Random Q&A. Newbie posts that should be in the Newbie subforum. If you keep splintering this forum up, soon enough it becomes a non-navigable wall of subforums. And I fear we are already almost there. I am with Augee on this one, if people actually read the megathreads some, many questions would actually be answered without having to start an "what is the right barrel for a Mk12" thread...

he ran off to TOS

Sounds good to me

The huge pic threads are full of dumbass cock jokes and general non-tech chatter. Move them or moderate their content.

 

+1 for a dedicated forum for picture threads.

I enjoy looking at what other guys have assembled for themselves. I've copied ideas that others had and built my own takeing ideas from what i saw in their picture. I've actually started new builds to duplicate, with my own twist(s) on them, rifles I saw in a picture thread.