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Posted: 3/29/2015 1:55:39 PM EDT
[#2]
Glad the shooter and any bystanders weren't hurt! Please post any info on what happened after further investigation. Being brand new to owning an AR15, it's impressive to have signed up on AR15. Com! Thanks everybody for all the helpful info available here!
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Posted: 3/29/2015 2:02:36 PM EDT
[#3]
Glad you're ok OP.
Wow. |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 2:02:45 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Waiting to hear the lot number too. I bought 1k of this stuff not to long ago from the same place because tht were running a deal on it that I couldn't pass up. No, I don't out this stuff through my "quality" rifles, but instead for the days where a lot of guys have a range day and everyone brings 2 or 3 rifles and everyone shoots the piss out of them. **yes, that's the wife's hand. I'm out of town but had her send me a pic of this "crap" <a href="http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/stlfiveoh/media/Mobile%20Uploads/5EA884E8-39EF-4509-A060-87A4FCF8D998_1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee456/stlfiveoh/Mobile%20Uploads/5EA884E8-39EF-4509-A060-87A4FCF8D998_1.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/stlfiveoh/media/Mobile%20Uploads/CABE361C-F26A-4DC2-B892-E6863C91B640_1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee456/stlfiveoh/Mobile%20Uploads/CABE361C-F26A-4DC2-B892-E6863C91B640_1.jpg</a> The lot number is on a large white sticker on the side of the large brown box, and it's also stamped inside one of the flaps of each individual 20rd box. |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 2:27:48 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This has lawsuit written all over it. 
People today...... ETA: OP did you paint your fingernails? I hope you are a woman. 
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Posted: 3/29/2015 2:55:18 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
People today...... ETA: OP did you paint your fingernails? I hope you are a woman. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This has lawsuit written all over it.
People today...... ETA: OP did you paint your fingernails? I hope you are a woman. Ffs read the post |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 3:06:38 PM EDT
[#7]
That was much worse than my pistol KB...
Glad you didn't lose anything God gave you 2 of. |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 3:18:56 PM EDT
[#8]
heres the lot number from the boxes i was shooting i checked a few of them including the box that blew it up yesterday all the same K161 66 2014-08
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Posted: 3/29/2015 3:24:02 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
heres the lot number from the boxes i was shooting i checked a few of them including the box that blew it up yesterday all the same http://<a href=http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag29/judoking68pmatt1/IMG_8611_zpsqakd6cfa.jpeg</a>" /> Thanks for that. I don't have any from the same lot. I really hope you get a good resolution to this. Please keep us posted. |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 4:09:48 PM EDT
[#10]
This being a left handed bolt, we see the ejector flow on the right side of the casing, in respect to where the feedramps are.
Boys and girls, when you see mild steel flow into the ejector, that is some pressure. Your pictures aren't clear, but it looks like total case failure exactly where the extractor was. (in other words, the case is missing around the rim, where the extractor would have been, opposite the ejector flow area I pointed out) True? Can you post pictures of the bolt and extractor now that it is out? |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 4:32:37 PM EDT
[#11]
heres what i got for pictures.
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Posted: 3/29/2015 4:34:24 PM EDT
[#12]
the bolt itself cracked right up the middle too and the teeth were wrecked it was locked up because when everything broke the teeth somehow rotated and locked behind in that slightly rotated position
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Posted: 3/29/2015 5:05:04 PM EDT
[#13]
Man that thing is blown the fuck out. I feel for you OP
I hope the manufacturer replaces your broken parts. Like I said I do remember a thread where exactly that happened after a KB |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 5:53:21 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ammo? Almost always. |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 6:34:24 PM EDT
[#15]
OP check to see if the barrel is obstructed, shine a light into the muzzle and see if any light comes through the openings in the casing
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Posted: 3/29/2015 7:05:23 PM EDT
[#16]
That is a *classic* overpressure Kaboom in an AR. The only thing that makes yours a bit unique is the extent of damage in how the upper receiver split, and the barrel extension itself split.
You had more of a detonation, than a firing of slow burning rifle powder. The majority of the ones reported on this site are very similar to that, and I have never seen an obstructed barrel reported in any of them. How that could happen in a lot of production ammo, is beyond me.... but it is very akin to filling a rifle case with fast burning pistol powder and detonating it. You have the pancake primer, you have primer flow into the firing pin channel, you have classic case failure at the extractor (least supported part of the case), bent extractor, and case material flowing into the ejector. I think what makes this the most unique is I have actually never seen it with a steel case. |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 7:29:38 PM EDT
[#17]
so any suggestions on how I should approach trying to return the ammo/ getting some kind of compensation for my totaled rifle. I mean I did disassemble the rifle right after in the field because i wanted to know what the fuck just happened to me. but now I'm more concerned with trying to get my money back for the rest of this ammo and rebuilding my totaled rifle.
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Posted: 3/29/2015 7:50:16 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so any suggestions on how I should approach trying to return the ammo/ getting some kind of compensation for my totaled rifle. I mean I did disassemble the rifle right after in the field because i wanted to know what the fuck just happened to me. but now I'm more concerned with trying to get my money back for the rest of this ammo and rebuilding my totaled rifle. All I have to say is, good luck. I would consider it as a very expensive lesson in what not to do. You can always contact the retailer to see what they recommend. I would contact Colt to see what they would say since their name is on the product. You first may want to see what the AR manufacturer says about what type of ammo is to be used in their ARs. If they say that steel-cased ammo is not to be used in their ARs, you may not have a leg to stand on. |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 8:02:46 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so any suggestions on how I should approach trying to return the ammo/ getting some kind of compensation for my totaled rifle. I mean I did disassemble the rifle right after in the field because i wanted to know what the fuck just happened to me. but now I'm more concerned with trying to get my money back for the rest of this ammo and rebuilding my totaled rifle. There is nothing wrong with disassembling it and taking good pics. Just contact Colt and tell your story and what details you have, they will probably want the rifle shipped to them for inspection and they should make good on it. |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 8:04:03 PM EDT
[#20]
I remember a case where a 3 gunner got a lot of ammo that had accidentally been charged with pistol powder instaed of rifle powder. The results were similar.
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Posted: 3/29/2015 8:18:42 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ffs read the post Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This has lawsuit written all over it.
People today...... ETA: OP did you paint your fingernails? I hope you are a woman. Ffs read the post 
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Posted: 3/29/2015 8:37:44 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This has lawsuit written all over it. What exactly are the damages you would be asking for? Without any injuries the most would be $1,000 to buy a new rifle? Colt would laugh at a $1,000 lawsuit. The best course here is a reasonable phone call to Colt CS. I would be very surprised if they aren't responsive to this issue. |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 8:45:57 PM EDT
[#23]
WOW!!! Glad you are OK>>>>>>>>>>>
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Posted: 3/29/2015 8:55:03 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is only one other remote possibility, but you need to have excessive "freebore" for it to occur. In a modern AR15 this is very unlikely. In a Swedish Mauser, on the other hand it is more likely. That is, too little of a slow burning powder where the bullet winds up stopping at the origin of the rifling. This has been known as the secondary explosion effect and a few other names. Being that the ammo came directly from a mail order outfit reduces the chance that the particular box was spiked by some nefarious individual. Also, factory ammo is not likely to have a significantly different powder in a lot of ammo. However, a squib, and then a bit of an overcharge is a more likely thing to happen. The powder charge bridges on one case in the feeding tube, and on the next all the powder dumps overcharging that case. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That is one of the worst ive seen. Either the wrong type of powder or a squib is about all thats going to cause a KB. There is only one other remote possibility, but you need to have excessive "freebore" for it to occur. In a modern AR15 this is very unlikely. In a Swedish Mauser, on the other hand it is more likely. That is, too little of a slow burning powder where the bullet winds up stopping at the origin of the rifling. This has been known as the secondary explosion effect and a few other names. Being that the ammo came directly from a mail order outfit reduces the chance that the particular box was spiked by some nefarious individual. Also, factory ammo is not likely to have a significantly different powder in a lot of ammo. However, a squib, and then a bit of an overcharge is a more likely thing to happen. The powder charge bridges on one case in the feeding tube, and on the next all the powder dumps overcharging that case. Damn! I just bought a Sweeeedish Mauser 6.5X55 better be careful
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Posted: 3/29/2015 9:19:35 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Damn! I just bought a Sweeeedish Mauser 6.5X55 better be careful
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That is one of the worst ive seen. Either the wrong type of powder or a squib is about all thats going to cause a KB. There is only one other remote possibility, but you need to have excessive "freebore" for it to occur. In a modern AR15 this is very unlikely. In a Swedish Mauser, on the other hand it is more likely. That is, too little of a slow burning powder where the bullet winds up stopping at the origin of the rifling. This has been known as the secondary explosion effect and a few other names. Being that the ammo came directly from a mail order outfit reduces the chance that the particular box was spiked by some nefarious individual. Also, factory ammo is not likely to have a significantly different powder in a lot of ammo. However, a squib, and then a bit of an overcharge is a more likely thing to happen. The powder charge bridges on one case in the feeding tube, and on the next all the powder dumps overcharging that case. Damn! I just bought a Sweeeedish Mauser 6.5X55 better be careful
There is no real problem unless you try to do what I did once. Didn't blow anything up, but blew a primer. I was gradually reducing loads with a slow powder (H4831) and went to the lowest charge I could find listed for the 140 grain bullet I was using. It was too low of a charge. I pulled the remaining bullets and salvaged the powder. (The reason for doing this was to map barrel vibrations with a consistent powder, bullet, case, primer and seating depth. The only variable was powder charge.) Since this problem is now known among manufacturers, they don't really use that slow of a powder. It could, perhaps, happen with older ammo, but very unlikely with new stuff. If you handload, stay in the IMR or H 4895 burning rates and you will be fine. |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 9:27:42 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so any suggestions on how I should approach trying to return the ammo/ getting some kind of compensation for my totaled rifle. I mean I did disassemble the rifle right after in the field because i wanted to know what the fuck just happened to me. but now I'm more concerned with trying to get my money back for the rest of this ammo and rebuilding my totaled rifle. You have 3 parties to contact. 1) I would probably contact Colt first since their name is on the ammo and they will want to alert all of their resellers concerning the suspect lot number as soon as possible. Then you can discuss rifle replacement and ammo return. Things can move slowly at Colt....be sure to tell the receptionist about the urgency of the situation and maybe you'll be bumped up the food chain to the right person. There is a Colt sub-forum over in Industry...you could post this thread over there right now to start the ball rolling. 2) Ammo dealer next. You may have to send the unused ammo there to get your refund and they need to know which lot number could have the next kaboom in it. Colt should do this too, if first contact with Colt went well. I would send the unused ammo to the dealer only if Colt directed me to take this route for the ammo refund. 3) Rifle manufacturer if factory built rifle. I would do this just to get them on board and listen to any advice that they might offer. I would report my progress back to this thread so there is a record/timeline of your contact attempts/results. |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 11:01:18 PM EDT
[#27]
Glad your Ok. I was out shooting with the wife today and that kind of experence would have ruined it for sure.
I hope everything turns out ok for you. Good Luck. |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 11:17:36 PM EDT
[#28]
Pics of the whole gun? Glad you're OK
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Posted: 3/30/2015 12:45:53 AM EDT
[#29]
Glad you're ok. Out of curiosity, is the lower ok?
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Posted: 3/30/2015 1:11:59 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Brother looking at all of that I have to say.....your lucky to be alive....Man that gun took some punishment. Every time a rifle KB's someone says this, yet there has never once been a reported death due to exploding AR-15. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 8:38:45 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every time a rifle KB's someone says this, yet there has never once been a reported death due to exploding AR-15. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Brother looking at all of that I have to say.....your lucky to be alive....Man that gun took some punishment. Every time a rifle KB's someone says this, yet there has never once been a reported death due to exploding AR-15. Yep, they hold together pretty well. Gotta make the "magwell grip" guys rethink their technique, though. A lot of it seems to blow out the magwell. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 8:39:55 AM EDT
[#32]
How did the lower make out? Usually there is a blown out magwell.
You should probably not disassemble it any further as Colt will want it as is as close as possible. It would be interesting to see what's left of the cartridge though. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 9:49:06 AM EDT
[#33]
As others have said I would contact Colt first and see what they say. I wouldn't talk to the first person to answer the call, ask for their supervisor. Document every phone call with time and date and the person you spoke with. If they don't take care of you I would send a certified letter with an explanation of what took place and give photos and a link to this thread. If they realize the public is aware of this they may be less likely to screw you. As already mentioned, keep this thread current with updates. Hopefully they will be willing to make it right.
NCH |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 10:25:09 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Every time a rifle KB's someone says this, yet there has never once been a reported death due to exploding AR-15. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Brother looking at all of that I have to say.....your lucky to be alive....Man that gun took some punishment. Every time a rifle KB's someone says this, yet there has never once been a reported death due to exploding AR-15. Lots of dumb speculation in this thread. There is no evidence to support there was a squib. There's no cause for a lawsuit. It's clearly an over-pressured round that is usually caused by an incorrect powder charge. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 11:34:19 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Worst I've ever seen is a few scratches, including my own kb with a polymer lower. Lots of dumb speculation in this thread. There is no evidence to support there was a squib. There's no cause for a lawsuit. It's clearly an over-pressured round that is usually caused by an incorrect powder charge. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Brother looking at all of that I have to say.....your lucky to be alive....Man that gun took some punishment. Every time a rifle KB's someone says this, yet there has never once been a reported death due to exploding AR-15. Lots of dumb speculation in this thread. There is no evidence to support there was a squib. There's no cause for a lawsuit. It's clearly an over-pressured round that is usually caused by an incorrect powder charge. Actually - it is speculation to state incorrect powder charge. We simply only know there was overpressure. Cause is unknown. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 11:48:02 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryWow, never heard of that stuff. Hard to believe that Colt would put their name on crap ammo* like that. *crap ammo I consider any steel-cased ammo to be crap ammo Colt is re-branded Silver Bear, by Barnaul. For steel case, it's actually pretty good as far as consistency. I shot the same stuff (62gr) out of my 7.5" AR pistol a couple of weeks ago - I put 40 rounds inside a 1.5" circle at 25 yards offhand, and all of my empties landed in a 3 foot circle. I did find a single split case neck among the empties, but I didn't notice anything unusual while firing. |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 11:48:52 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep, they hold together pretty well. Gotta make the "magwell grip" guys rethink their technique, though. A lot of it seems to blow out the magwell. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Brother looking at all of that I have to say.....your lucky to be alive....Man that gun took some punishment. Every time a rifle KB's someone says this, yet there has never once been a reported death due to exploding AR-15. Yep, they hold together pretty well. Gotta make the "magwell grip" guys rethink their technique, though. A lot of it seems to blow out the magwell. God only knows, I agree they are made to take punishment and you may be right about never having a death, sad part of life if there is always a first, I say thank God OP wasn't the first. |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 4:15:16 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually - it is speculation to state incorrect powder charge. We simply only know there was overpressure. Cause is unknown. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Brother looking at all of that I have to say.....your lucky to be alive....Man that gun took some punishment. Every time a rifle KB's someone says this, yet there has never once been a reported death due to exploding AR-15. Lots of dumb speculation in this thread. There is no evidence to support there was a squib. There's no cause for a lawsuit. It's clearly an over-pressured round that is usually caused by an incorrect powder charge. Actually - it is speculation to state incorrect powder charge. We simply only know there was overpressure. Cause is unknown. |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 4:46:39 PM EDT
[#39]
for explosion like this, the bullet has to be stuck, if bullet is free to go out of barrel, can't imagine any powder or gun malfunction could cause this
also something doesn't add up, the butt of the shell is still intact with only primer blown out, but how can barrel extension got blown apart by the gas through the small primer hole??? |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 4:48:35 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
for explosion like this, the bullet has to be stuck, if bullet is free to go out of barrel, can't imagine any powder or gun malfunction could cause this Totally incorrect. Seen plenty of them and never an obstructed barrel. |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 4:56:10 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Totally incorrect. Seen plenty of them and never an obstructed barrel. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
for explosion like this, the bullet has to be stuck, if bullet is free to go out of barrel, can't imagine any powder or gun malfunction could cause this Totally incorrect. Seen plenty of them and never an obstructed barrel. that will take extremely fast burn powder to raise the pressure to 2x or 3x normal peak pressure of 60k psi, hard to imagine also how come the brass butt of shell is intact while the barrel extension got blown apart? very odd |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 8:09:49 PM EDT
[#42]
I've been thinking on how it would be possible for a normal powder, powder charge, and bullet to cause this kind of pressure excursion.
Here is the scenario: The bullet is loose in the case neck. Upon chambering, the bullet seats back into the case far enough that there is a vent between the nose portion of the bullet and the neck. That is, the ogive is set back somewhat below the shoulder. Upon firing, some of the powder ignites, but the bullet does not move until a good portion of the powder is burning. Some of the "low pressure" gasses vent down the barrel. The bullet finally moves and briefly lodges in the origin of the rifling. Since a good portion of the powder is ignited, but not burning at full speed due to the low pressure, once the plug is in place the powder now starts burning at its normal rate as the pressure goes up. What causes the high pressure is that unlike a normal case, where the pressure starts climbing immediately when only a small portion of the powder is burning, much of the surface area is burning when the plug occurs. More powder is now creating a lot more gasses before the bullet can begin moving again. Thus the pressure is higher. In this case, a lot higher. |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 9:09:23 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This has lawsuit written all over it. This guy^^^ 
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Posted: 4/1/2015 9:42:07 PM EDT
[#44]
TTT
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Posted: 4/1/2015 10:14:35 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NEVER heard of a rifle manufacturer that said NO steel casings can be used. Most (any and all gun manufacturers) say "not recommended" but can't see any ever saying "can't be used". Gun should be a tank and can shoot anything, steel or brass. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
so any suggestions on how I should approach trying to return the ammo/ getting some kind of compensation for my totaled rifle. I mean I did disassemble the rifle right after in the field because i wanted to know what the fuck just happened to me. but now I'm more concerned with trying to get my money back for the rest of this ammo and rebuilding my totaled rifle. NEVER heard of a rifle manufacturer that said NO steel casings can be used. Most (any and all gun manufacturers) say "not recommended" but can't see any ever saying "can't be used". Gun should be a tank and can shoot anything, steel or brass. That's your opinion. http://www.dpmsinc.com/Ammunitions-Warning_ep_59-1.html http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=16&Itemid=26 Olympic Arms only warrants their firearms when used with new production brass cased US manufactured ammo http://www.del-ton.com/terms.asp Del-Ton rifles used to ship with an insert card that explicitly stated shooting steel cased ammo voided the warranty. A few years ago, there are LOTS of rifle manufacturers which voided the warranty on their rifles is you shot steel cased import ammunition. That's a fact. Many have gone back and revisited this policy in recent years due to pressure from the shooting community. |
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Posted: 4/2/2015 11:23:30 AM EDT
[#46]
What FALARAK says is 100% true. MOST complete rifle manufacturers explicitly voided their warranties if the user fired ANY steel cased ammunition, regardless of source. Slowly, over time, many revised their policies, in part because the availability of higher quality steel cased ammunition increased, and because it's kind of silly to void your warranty because the user fired Hornady ammunition in the gun.
In any case, a large part of their reasoning was that most users are pretty uninformed about ammunition in general, and especially about the specific issues related to steel cases (like poorer chamber obturation). Frankly most gun owners seem to be pretty stupid from my perspective - they listen to gun shop dudes, never bother to even read the manual that comes with a gun, and get their tactical and stance education from Hollywood. So when DPMS said "no reloads, no steel cases, no kidding," there was a good reason behind it. I cannot see a gun blowing up so thoroughly without something really significant going wrong with the ammunition. |
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Posted: 4/4/2015 7:14:33 PM EDT
[#47]
so i got a chance to figure some more out today. first thing that case is stuck in the barrel by some fucking act of god near impossible to get out. what i did do though is rule out the squib thought. i ended up taking the back of the case off while its still lodged in the barrel and ran a cleaning rod down it. about 8 inches down the barrel is the first and only bullet. so thats a couple questions answered and a couple more raised. so there was no squib but whatever was wrong with this round caused the bullet to push about 8 inches down the chamber, short of the gas block by a good amount, and the rest of the pressure back into my face. but the one thing is certain now it was only this round there were no obstructions in the barrel prior to this round exploding.
on the other question the lower is in pretty good shape, a couple scratches on the inside of the magazine well from probably the bottom piece of the bolt slamming down it. so one round pushed the bullet about 8 inches up the barrel blew everything behind it apart just that odd weak point on the top of the case thats still lodged in the barrel that is completely missing seems to be where all the pressure pushed out and back. |
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Posted: 4/4/2015 7:35:41 PM EDT
[#48]
I take it there is no bulging of the barrel where, or near where the bullet is stuck. Is this so?
If the barrel is bulged, then that would lead to a bore obstruction. A case neck lodged down the barrel would act as a bore obstruction for instance, or a bullet jacket. Absent a significant bulge, indicates the bullet was not moving fast enough to clear the barrel (which is quite odd due to the high pressure involved). Things are getting curiouser and curiouser. All the "secondary explosion effect" or the too little of a slow powder with a long throat blow-ups that I've heard about have had the bullet clear the barrel. This one did not. |
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Posted: 4/4/2015 7:51:24 PM EDT
[#49]
nope the barrel has zero bulge, which is why I'm being so careful about taking the case out, if under the casing looks alright once i get it out i think the barrel might even be reusable, i mean probably not just because but nope it has no bulging it seems like zero pressure went forward everything came back.
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Posted: 4/4/2015 10:10:47 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
nope the barrel has zero bulge, which is why I'm being so careful about taking the case out, if under the casing looks alright once i get it out i think the barrel might even be reusable, i mean probably not just because but nope it has no bulging it seems like zero pressure went forward everything came back. The barrel is not reuseable, the barrel extension is gone. Barrels are drilled AFTER the extension is installed. Besides, it would be foolish to try and reuse a chamber that had that much pressure in it. |
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