so has anyone blown up an AR like this?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - so has anyone blown up an AR like this? (Page 1 of 5)

Posted: 3/28/2015 10:48:48 PM EDT

so i put a couple hundred rounds thru my 20" rifle, ammo was shooting great 2-3 inch group at 150 yards and suddenly this happened...

any ideas why this happened?

Posted: 3/28/2015 10:49:50 PM EDT

[#1]

I cant see shit!

Posted: 3/28/2015 10:56:08 PM EDT

[#2]

Oh WOW what happened?
That looks serious.

The case seems stuck in there pretty good, and your upper is even cracked... must been one hell of an over-pressured round or something.
What ammo were you shooting, was it a reloaded round, and could you explain a bit more in detail what happened before and when it 'blew up'?

Posted: 3/28/2015 10:56:27 PM EDT

[#3]

Ammo?

Posted: 3/28/2015 10:58:23 PM EDT

[#4]

Good Lord!!!!! What kind of bolt is it? I'll be interested to hear what the experts on here say caused this. I feel for you brother, are the sides of the upper bulging out too?

MMMMMAAAANNNNN.....the other pictures didn't load at first^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ DUDE I TOTALLLY FEEL SORRY FOR YOU NOW!!!!!!

Posted: 3/28/2015 11:00:22 PM EDT

[#5]

it was the Russian bimetal colt branded stuff 62 grain FMJ zinc coated steel cased ammo blue box with a colt logo on it shoot awesome accuracy wise i had some .308 too that i was running thru a remington 700 shot great 1 inch groups at 150m

i just pulled the trigger got a big ass cloud of smoke in my face and went well shit that didn't feel good looked down and realized the case didn't eject then realized it never shot and it was all still in there then i took the gun apart and got it down to the barrel didn't really matter much since the bolt was wrecked and upper and barrel so i just pretty much ripped it apart. the bolt is a left handed stag arms m16 bcg

Posted: 3/28/2015 11:01:04 PM EDT

[#6]

Yep, RDX instead of rifle powder will do that. You weren't shooting old ammo you found in the jungles of Vietnam, were you?

Posted: 3/28/2015 11:03:31 PM EDT

[#7]

Brother looking at all of that I have to say.....your lucky to be alive....Man that gun took some punishment.

Posted: 3/28/2015 11:08:32 PM EDT

[#8]

It is a shame what happened and I am glad you are okay, but stop shooting crappy ammo in your AR.

Posted: 3/28/2015 11:08:40 PM EDT

[#9]

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Yep, RDX instead of rifle powder will do that. You weren't shooting old ammo you found in the jungles of Vietnam, were you?

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Lol

We can laugh about that because he's okay but DAMN!

Tag to see what happened.

Posted: 3/28/2015 11:09:15 PM EDT

[#10]

Have you tried pulling the round out. Wonder if a squib would do that?

Posted: 3/28/2015 11:09:28 PM EDT

[#11]

no bulging on the side of the upper it has a fine crack running along the front half side and that whole crack in the top i think the only thing that held it together was the scope mount was sitting right around there haven't pulled the round out yet i just left it in the barrel for now i was gonna bring it to a buddy with more tools and experience than I to get an opinion

Posted: 3/28/2015 11:09:52 PM EDT

[#12]

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Quoted:
it was the Russian bimetal colt branded stuff 62 grain FMJ zinc coated steel cased ammo blue box with a colt logo on it shoot awesome accuracy wise i had some .308 too that i was running thru a remington 700 shot great 1 inch groups at 150m

i just pulled the trigger got a big ass cloud of smoke in my face and went well shit that didn't feel good looked down and realized the case didn't eject then realized it never shot and it was all still in there then i took the gun apart and got it down to the barrel didn't really matter much since the bolt was wrecked and upper and barrel so i just pretty much ripped it apart. the bolt is a left handed stag arms m16 bcg

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Wow, never heard of that stuff.
Hard to believe that Colt would put their name on crap ammo* like that.

*crap ammo
I consider any steel-cased ammo to be crap ammo

Posted: 3/28/2015 11:14:50 PM EDT

[#13]

The case is badly extruded, the primer is gone, a lot of the pressure went back into the bolt carrier which caused it to fracture splitting the upper receiver in the process.

Either you had a reload with the wrong kind of powder, or a previous squib leaving a second bullet lodged just deep enough for the round behind it to chamber. The latter is unlikely unless you manually loaded the next round by pulling back the charging handle. Did you do this just before the incident?

A thread in GD not too long ago had members remarking that they have witnessed individuals opening up boxes of ammo while shopping in stores. Some have said they do this to make sure all the ammo is there, that there are no wrong cartridges in the box, and that the box does not have obvious reloaded ammo or cheaper ammo substituted. Sometime back there were rumors that some gun control freaks were spiking boxes with bad ammo to cause just this sort of thing.

What ammo were you using? Was it factory sealed stuff, or did any of the boxes look like they may have been opened? Was it someone's reloaded ammo on a progressive machine?

ETA: RDX or other high explosive would do a lot more damage with obvious spalling. I don't see that here.

The ammo question seemed to be answered while I typed.

Posted: 3/28/2015 11:19:14 PM EDT

[#14]

the ammo is all the colt russian stuff linked above i sadly bought 1500 rounds of this from militaryshooters.com this was my first time shooting it i bought it in a bulk case directly from their site so its all factory ammo shipped directly to me no reloads this is the only ammo i brought with me today

Posted: 3/28/2015 11:25:20 PM EDT

[#15]

So, you didn't have a squib just before and loaded another round behind it thinking that it was just a misfire?

Posted: 3/28/2015 11:26:57 PM EDT

[#16]

That is one of the worst ive seen. Either the wrong type of powder or a squib is about all thats going to cause a KB.

Posted: 3/28/2015 11:32:32 PM EDT

[#17]

I wonder if the bullet is still on the case like it was stuck and the pressure blew back. I know guys that buy cheap stuff and reload and I warn them of this kind of thing. Glad you are okay and sorry for your loss. Also I have heard of this ammo before and thought it was odd that colt made steel case russian ammo you may have just got the 1 and a million or its crap.

Posted: 3/28/2015 11:35:04 PM EDT

[#18]

Looks like a squib round OP. Were you rapid firing at the time? Did the report of the round before The Kb sound "off"? Did the rifle have light recoil before Kb?

Posted: 3/28/2015 11:38:21 PM EDT

[#19]

im gonna try and rip it out tomorrow and figure out what is going on on the front end, regardless of what happened I'm kind of concerned about shooting the other rounds of this and I'm really sort of pissed because i have about 1300 more 5.56 and 600 rounds of 308 in this brand that I'm now more than slightly concerned about shooting the rest of

Posted: 3/28/2015 11:39:11 PM EDT

[#20]

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Quoted:
That is one of the worst ive seen. Either the wrong type of powder or a squib is about all thats going to cause a KB.

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There is only one other remote possibility, but you need to have excessive "freebore" for it to occur. In a modern AR15 this is very unlikely. In a Swedish Mauser, on the other hand it is more likely. That is, too little of a slow burning powder where the bullet winds up stopping at the origin of the rifling. This has been known as the secondary explosion effect and a few other names.

Being that the ammo came directly from a mail order outfit reduces the chance that the particular box was spiked by some nefarious individual. Also, factory ammo is not likely to have a significantly different powder in a lot of ammo. However, a squib, and then a bit of an overcharge is a more likely thing to happen. The powder charge bridges on one case in the feeding tube, and on the next all the powder dumps overcharging that case.

Posted: 3/28/2015 11:41:29 PM EDT

[#21]

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Quoted:
the ammo is all the colt russian stuff linked above i sadly bought 1500 rounds of this from militaryshooters.com this was my first time shooting it i bought it in a bulk case directly from their site so its all factory ammo shipped directly to me no reloads this is the only ammo i brought with me today

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Shit ammo!

Posted: 3/28/2015 11:45:50 PM EDT

[#22]

Op, glad your ok. That upper is totaled,

. I don't shoot steel case crap because of the chance of this happening for one, and two the producers of such ammo are not likely to pony up, (no pun intended) if/when something happens because after all; it's made in Russia... This kind of shit can happen with any kind of ammo manufacturer and does but I see it more so with steel case and re-manufactured stuff. Ultramax ammo comes to mind. That shit is garbage. I stick to Federal mostly. The only foreign made ammo I shoot is IMI, PMC, Fiocchi, PRVI, and Magtech; and they are all solid choices. But the common theme is it is always first run, brass cased ammo. I suggest you stick to brass cased ammo. I would also try to recoup/return those 1500 rounds of this crap you bought. Maybe the seller of the ammo will take responsibility.

Posted: 3/28/2015 11:48:11 PM EDT

[#23]

Sorry to see that happened OP

ETA: To what was said above about steel case, I was at the range a month ago and a first time AR shooter had some steel TulaAmmo, each time he shot the case would not eject and had to use an extractor I had on me. happened to him twice, both times he shoot.

I too stick with Federal/American Eagle or Winchester or Independance. Well Hornady when I can afford it.

Posted: 3/28/2015 11:49:53 PM EDT

[#24]

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im gonna try and rip it out tomorrow and figure out what is going on on the front end, regardless of what happened I'm kind of concerned about shooting the other rounds of this and I'm really sort of pissed because i have about 1300 more 5.56 and 600 rounds of 308 in this brand that I'm now more than slightly concerned about shooting the rest of

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Fuck NO I wouldn't shoot anymore of that shitty ammo. It could be 100% legit with no other bad rounds/powder or it could have more KB's waiting to happen in the mix. Have you contacted who you bought it from yet??? Do that if not, link this thread to them and give them a few days to respond if you haven't already.

Posted: 3/28/2015 11:50:04 PM EDT

[#25]

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im gonna try and rip it out tomorrow and figure out what is going on on the front end, regardless of what happened I'm kind of concerned about shooting the other rounds of this and I'm really sort of pissed because i have about 1300 more 5.56 and 600 rounds of 308 in this brand that I'm now more than slightly concerned about shooting the rest of

View Quote

A valid concern.

Contact the manufacturer of the ammo. Tell them what happened and give them the lot number of the ammo. I'm not advising you to get all litigious, but they may buy back the ammo.

Posted: 3/28/2015 11:50:39 PM EDT

[#26]

Happened to me with remanufactured ammo a few years ago.
The AR design helps to protect the shooter during Kaboom.
At least a replacement rifle will probably cost less than the original at today's prices.
I got a check from the manufacturer and built a better rifle.

Posted: 3/28/2015 11:53:57 PM EDT

[#27]

Call colt and tell them their ammo blew up your rifle

Posted: 3/29/2015 12:00:10 AM EDT

[#28]

The pressure in the chamber blew the bolt back without first unlocking via the gas tube, the bolt traveled rearward and the bolt cam broke the upper.

Because the upper is broke in the manor it is, I would conclude you had a squib round stuck in the barrel at some point before the gas port, I would document and send that scrap to Colt, dont do anything else I think its poor ammo and they should replace the damaged parts.

Posted: 3/29/2015 12:05:12 AM EDT

[#29]

Rather interesting kaboom, relatively speaking. All the others I've seen had a lot of horizontal damage, while yours has vertical.

Posted: 3/29/2015 12:07:15 AM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
The pressure in the chamber blew the bolt back without first unlocking via the gas tube, the bolt traveled rearward and the bolt cam broke the upper.

Because the upper is broke in the manor it is, I would conclude you had a squib round stuck in the barrel at some point before the gas port, I would document and send that scrap to Colt, dont do anything else I think its poor ammo and they should replace the damaged parts.

View Quote

However, for that to happen, the shooter must have manually ejected the round and chambered another. The bolt would not eject and chamber the next unless the bullet passed the gas port with sufficient pressure.

Posted: 3/29/2015 12:08:57 AM EDT

[#31]

1) Hopefully the seller of the ammo and the manufacturer of the ammo will take care of the damages.

2) Don't tamper with your blown up rifle, it may become evidence.

3) The KABOOM box of ammo and lot number may become evidence....don't lose control of it unless you trust where it's going

4) Even though it's not the rifle manufacturer's fault, they may be able to advise/help you if needed

Posted: 3/29/2015 12:19:09 AM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:

However, for that to happen, the shooter must have manually ejected the round and chambered another. The bolt would not eject and chamber the next unless the bullet passed the gas port with sufficient pressure.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
The pressure in the chamber blew the bolt back without first unlocking via the gas tube, the bolt traveled rearward and the bolt cam broke the upper.

Because the upper is broke in the manor it is, I would conclude you had a squib round stuck in the barrel at some point before the gas port, I would document and send that scrap to Colt, dont do anything else I think its poor ammo and they should replace the damaged parts.

However, for that to happen, the shooter must have manually ejected the round and chambered another. The bolt would not eject and chamber the next unless the bullet passed the gas port with sufficient pressure.

I agree, It could have been incorrect powder, could have been bullet push back, it any case I think its an ammo issue and the best thing to do in that case is not fool with the gun and send it to the manufacture after documenting.

Its just a hell of a KB and in my experience its really hard to overload a 223 case to that point.

Posted: 3/29/2015 12:25:25 AM EDT

[#33]

The only one I've seen do that much damage was the 300 blk in a 223 guy awhile back.

Posted: 3/29/2015 12:43:31 AM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:

I agree, It could have been incorrect powder, could have been bullet push back, it any case I think its an ammo issue and the best thing to do in that case is not fool with the gun and send it to the manufacture after documenting.

Its just a hell of a KB and in my experience its really hard to overload a 223 case to that point.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
The pressure in the chamber blew the bolt back without first unlocking via the gas tube, the bolt traveled rearward and the bolt cam broke the upper.

Because the upper is broke in the manor it is, I would conclude you had a squib round stuck in the barrel at some point before the gas port, I would document and send that scrap to Colt, dont do anything else I think its poor ammo and they should replace the damaged parts.

However, for that to happen, the shooter must have manually ejected the round and chambered another. The bolt would not eject and chamber the next unless the bullet passed the gas port with sufficient pressure.

I agree, It could have been incorrect powder, could have been bullet push back, it any case I think its an ammo issue and the best thing to do in that case is not fool with the gun and send it to the manufacture after documenting.

Its just a hell of a KB and in my experience its really hard to overload a 223 case to that point.

That it is. Full case capacity with some compression of most suitable powders might extrude primers, but that is about the extent of it. This is why I have asked if the shooter manually ejected and chambered another round. Even a set-back bullet is not likely to create that much sudden pressure. To see a steel case with that much extrusion shows a lot more pressure than most failures can create.

Posted: 3/29/2015 1:25:36 AM EDT

[#35]

When I first looked, squib came to mind right away.

I've not seen that ammo do anything like that (re: over pressured), but I've seen many people have problems shooting that stuff.

Posted: 3/29/2015 9:40:21 AM EDT

[#36]

First time I've seen a dorsal crack on an upper receiver from a KB.

Posted: 3/29/2015 10:46:36 AM EDT

[#37]

This has lawsuit written all over it.

Posted: 3/29/2015 10:48:46 AM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:

A valid concern.

Contact the manufacturer of the ammo. Tell them what happened and give them the lot number of the ammo. I'm not advising you to get all litigious, but they may buy back the ammo.

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Quoted:
im gonna try and rip it out tomorrow and figure out what is going on on the front end, regardless of what happened I'm kind of concerned about shooting the other rounds of this and I'm really sort of pissed because i have about 1300 more 5.56 and 600 rounds of 308 in this brand that I'm now more than slightly concerned about shooting the rest of

A valid concern.

Contact the manufacturer of the ammo. Tell them what happened and give them the lot number of the ammo. I'm not advising you to get all litigious, but they may buy back the ammo.

Ive also seen this route turning into the ammo manufacturer replacing all blown up parts for the consumer. I would try this,OP.

Posted: 3/29/2015 11:06:28 AM EDT

[#39]

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Quoted:
This has lawsuit written all over it.

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No, it doesn't. Kbooms happen. It simply warrants a call to Colt to see what they will do toward replacing the lot of ammo, and replacing your rifle parts that were damaged.

This is an overpressure/detonation situation. There is no way to know if it is squib related or not... but if the barrel is clear then squib is highly unlikely.

Posted: 3/29/2015 12:54:35 PM EDT

[#40]

Colt licenses Barnaul to market their "Silver Bear" type zinc coated, steel cased ammunition with Colt's name. I would not call Barnaul "shit ammo," considering their track record, including the fact that they supply the primed steel cases Hornady uses for their steel cased lines, but this is a very severe issue and needs investigating.

OP, are you sure the bullet from the round before this one exited the gun? That's the only real question here. If it was not caused by a squib before this round, then Colt/Barnaul have "some 'splainin' to do." That's a lot of damage to have come from a single, unobstructed .223 cartridge.

I'd use a cleaning rod to determine whether there is "a bullet" in the bore before contacting anyone. And as FALARAK says, don't rip it apart until you have a chance to contact Colt. Unless you determine that you "might have" had a squib...

Posted: 3/29/2015 1:03:30 PM EDT

[#41]

That is pretty hairy, glad you're okay.

Posted: 3/29/2015 1:17:59 PM EDT

[#42]

Damn, sorry op. I just had 1k rounds of this same 62gr FMJ ammo delivered from sgammo on Monday...

. What's your lot numbers?

Posted: 3/29/2015 1:19:31 PM EDT

[#43]

I'm absolutely positive the round previous exited the chamber it was only the second shot i took with that mag of 5 in it. i was shooting target clays saw the previous clay explode then took a shot at second clay and this happened. i don't know if its visible in the pictures but the top of the casing inside the barrel is blown away/not there anymore. but no manual pull from me and was only the second round in that run. I took the whole gun apart that day down to what i took the pictures of because the BCG was locked into the barrel with that round in it. i haven't removed the round from the barrel yet as I'm not quite sure how to tackle that and planned on having buddy with a much longer history of AR work do that.

Posted: 3/29/2015 1:21:49 PM EDT

[#44]

Others have stated it earlier.

Bad ammunition.

Overpressure. The gas blew out the primer and at chamber pressure levels got into the bolt carrier cavity by way of the firing pin passage, Since the carrier cavity is about three times bigger than the chamber the loads on the carrier were about 9 times the loads on the barrel, so naturally, it came apart.

You probably do need to report the the ammunition manufacturer the fact that their ammo blew up your rifle, for two reasons, 1) they should buy back the ammo, and 2) let others with the same lot # know they may have a problem.

Posted: 3/29/2015 1:22:45 PM EDT

[#45]

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This has lawsuit written all over it.

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Not necessarily.
Depends on how the responsible parties respond to the situation.

I still would resist the temptation to "explore" or tamper with any of the possible evidence until a satisfactory solution is reached.
The rifle may need to be sent to the manufacturer (or Colt) as is, for examination.
If it has been tampered with, you may lose some "leverage", so to speak.

Posted: 3/29/2015 1:27:03 PM EDT

[#46]

Yeah, I would like to know the lot number. Gonna be holding off on using what I just got and watching this thread. OP, please keep us updated.

Posted: 3/29/2015 1:31:09 PM EDT

[#47]

Steel cased has nothing at all to do with this. It wasn't a squib either, that tells me it must have been a powder issue, either the wrong powder or a over loaded compacted charge, both are unlikely with ammo like this, but there is the proof. I wouldn't take it apart any further until you contact Colt and show them what happened. I hope for your sake that they make things right, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I have shot literally thousands of rounds of steel cased ammo and have never had any issues at all with it and I know many who have shot tens of thousands of steel cased ammo with the same results as me. Half of what you hear about steel cased ammo is just internet commandos repeating BS they heard at the range by another couch commando. Are there bad steel cased rounds, sure you bet there are, but there are also brass cased ammo with the same issues. I am just glad the shooter wasn't hurt. This has to be one of the worst KB's that I have seen.

NCH

Posted: 3/29/2015 1:34:48 PM EDT

[#48]

Quote History

Quoted:
Others have stated it earlier.

Bad ammunition.

Overpressure. The gas blew out the primer and at chamber pressure levels got into the bolt carrier cavity by way of the firing pin passage, Since the carrier cavity is about three times bigger than the chamber the loads on the carrier were about 9 times the loads on the barrel, so naturally, it came apart.

You probably do need to report the the ammunition manufacturer the fact that their ammo blew up your rifle, for two reasons, 1) they should buy back the ammo, and 2) let others with the same lot # know they may have a problem.

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and just how do you suppose they contact everyone who bought ammo from that same lot? It isn't like you have to fill out a form in order to purchase it with your name, phone number, email address and a note from your mother. Also they could easily be one out of a million chance, who's to say it isn't?

Posted: 3/29/2015 1:43:21 PM EDT

[#49]

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and just how do you suppose they contact everyone who bought ammo from that same lot? It isn't like you have to fill out a form in order to purchase it with your name, phone number, email address and a note from your mother. Also they could easily be one out of a million chance, who's to say it isn't?

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Others have stated it earlier.

Bad ammunition.

Overpressure. The gas blew out the primer and at chamber pressure levels got into the bolt carrier cavity by way of the firing pin passage, Since the carrier cavity is about three times bigger than the chamber the loads on the carrier were about 9 times the loads on the barrel, so naturally, it came apart.

You probably do need to report the the ammunition manufacturer the fact that their ammo blew up your rifle, for two reasons, 1) they should buy back the ammo, and 2) let others with the same lot # know they may have a problem.

and just how do you suppose they contact everyone who bought ammo from that same lot? It isn't like you have to fill out a form in order to purchase it with your name, phone number, email address and a note from your mother. Also they could easily be one out of a million chance, who's to say it isn't?

They do it like every other company does ammo recalls. Post it online, and in magazine ads.

Posted: 3/29/2015 1:51:10 PM EDT

[#50]

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and just how do you suppose they contact everyone who bought ammo from that same lot? It isn't like you have to fill out a form in order to purchase it with your name, phone number, email address and a note from your mother. Also they could easily be one out of a million chance, who's to say it isn't?

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Yes it could be.

That is why a conscientious company would buy back all of this man's ammo, pull a statistically relevant number of bullets measure the pull weight of the bullet, weigh the charges and bullets, measure bullet diameters, test primers... you get the picture. Anyway that will say it is an anomaly or a problem.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - so has anyone blown up an AR like this? (Page 1 of 5)

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