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Posted: 3/28/2015 10:39:37 PM EDT
[#1]
On a new rifle what you describe is not unusual. The fact that brass cycles much better than steel may be an issue because some AR chambers will never cycle steel without honing ''enlarging the chamber''.
Sometimes AR's will do as you describe for 100 or so rounds and all of a sudden start to work. My first AR I purchased jammed for about 100 rounds and I nearly gave up but then it started to work. Once it smoothed out it became perfectly reliable for hundreds and hundreds of rounds without one failure. I am now 100% confident in it and consider it the most reliable rifle I own. I am not saying the rifle does not have a problem but I would not consider an AR having cycling problems to actually have a problem until it has fired 100 rounds and the problem remains. I am a big fan of honing the chamber on any AR that is not specifically set up for long range because it helps reliability, especially with steel ammo. On precision chambers that should only be shooting brass ammo anyway a tight chamber is more important than battle ready reliability in my opinion. I would rather have a 1/2'' moa precision rifle that can not shoot steel cased ammo than a 1 1/2''moa rifle that shoots steel. |
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Posted: 3/28/2015 10:40:57 PM EDT
[#2]
Switch magazines?
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Posted: 3/28/2015 11:05:30 PM EDT
[#3]
I forgot to add I use a magpul p-mag. I will buy an oem mag next
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Posted: 3/29/2015 1:03:11 AM EDT
[#4]
Jamming is a very broad term. There are at least three actions during the cycling of the rifle. Feeding, Extraction and Ejection.
Each type of failure can be traced to different parts and deficiencies. |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 1:08:42 AM EDT
[#5]
I would think that brass 5.56 works better than steel 223 because 5.56 is actually a higher pressure round, so it will have more to force the gun to cycle.
It could be an issue with too little gas getting from the barrel back to the bolt. Is this gun a BUILD? It sounds like it, in which case the person may nmot have built it correctly and sold it off. The gas block might not be aligned to the gas port well enough, or maybe they put too strong of a spring or heavy of a buffer in for it. So many missing details, best I can do. You can tell if the weapon is cycling too slowly if the casings are ejecting too far back towards you. If the ejection pattern isn't that close to 3 o'clock, that's stuff to look at. As the post said above, there are different issues. It SOUNDED like you are having "failures to eject" and "failures to feed". So a fired casing causes the jam, or the gun fails to load a new round. Either trouble stripping the round from the magazine and pushing it into the chamber, or not picking one up at all and leaving an empty chamber with a closed bolt. Short cycling COULD be a cause for both Or maybe you have two different issues that aren't related. One thing you can check right now is if BOTH screws on top of the bolt carrier group (holding the gas key to the carrier) are tight. If even one is loose, gas can escape. |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 1:14:19 AM EDT
[#6]
Check to make sure you got all your gas rings on the bolt, I broke a gas ring that got hung up in the bolt and caused a similar problem. Make sure the gas block is aligned correctly.
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Posted: 3/29/2015 1:18:50 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Check to make sure you got all your gas rings on the bolt, I broke a gas ring that got hung up in the bolt and caused a similar problem. Make sure the gas block is aligned correctly. Missing/worn out gas rings could be the cause of short cycling too. There should be three of the on the bolt. Do NOT align them. To test them you take the fully assembled bolt carrier group, pull the bolt to its most outward position. Set the BCG vertically upright on a flat surface very gently. The gas rings should have enough pressure on the inside of the carrier to hold the carrier body up. If not, I'd get new gas rings. Another thing you can easily check if you have access to the rifle. |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 6:40:40 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Missing/worn out gas rings could be the cause of short cycling too. There should be three of the on the bolt. Do NOT align them. To test them you take the fully assembled bolt carrier group, pull the bolt to its most outward position. Set the BCG vertically upright on a flat surface very gently. The gas rings should have enough pressure on the inside of the carrier to hold the carrier body up. If not, I'd get new gas rings. Another thing you can easily check if you have access to the rifle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Check to make sure you got all your gas rings on the bolt, I broke a gas ring that got hung up in the bolt and caused a similar problem. Make sure the gas block is aligned correctly. Missing/worn out gas rings could be the cause of short cycling too. There should be three of the on the bolt. Do NOT align them. To test them you take the fully assembled bolt carrier group, pull the bolt to its most outward position. Set the BCG vertically upright on a flat surface very gently. The gas rings should have enough pressure on the inside of the carrier to hold the carrier body up. If not, I'd get new gas rings. Another thing you can easily check if you have access to the rifle. Meh. I don't know about that "test." I have had some bolts very easily move in and out of the carrier, and the rifles shot fine. |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 7:36:41 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Missing/worn out gas rings could be the cause of short cycling too. There should be three of the on the bolt. Do NOT align them. To test them you take the fully assembled bolt carrier group, pull the bolt to its most outward position. Set the BCG vertically upright on a flat surface very gently. The gas rings should have enough pressure on the inside of the carrier to hold the carrier body up. If not, I'd get new gas rings. Another thing you can easily check if you have access to the rifle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Check to make sure you got all your gas rings on the bolt, I broke a gas ring that got hung up in the bolt and caused a similar problem. Make sure the gas block is aligned correctly. Missing/worn out gas rings could be the cause of short cycling too. There should be three of the on the bolt. Do NOT align them. To test them you take the fully assembled bolt carrier group, pull the bolt to its most outward position. Set the BCG vertically upright on a flat surface very gently. The gas rings should have enough pressure on the inside of the carrier to hold the carrier body up. If not, I'd get new gas rings. Another thing you can easily check if you have access to the rifle. Thats and old wives tale. The gas rings can align all they want it should still cycle. Also tests have been done and the rifle will function with only 1 gas ring. |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 9:23:38 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thats and old wives tale. The gas rings can align all they want it should still cycle. Also tests have been done and the rifle will function with only 1 gas ring. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Check to make sure you got all your gas rings on the bolt, I broke a gas ring that got hung up in the bolt and caused a similar problem. Make sure the gas block is aligned correctly. Missing/worn out gas rings could be the cause of short cycling too. There should be three of the on the bolt. Do NOT align them. To test them you take the fully assembled bolt carrier group, pull the bolt to its most outward position. Set the BCG vertically upright on a flat surface very gently. The gas rings should have enough pressure on the inside of the carrier to hold the carrier body up. If not, I'd get new gas rings. Another thing you can easily check if you have access to the rifle. Thats and old wives tale. The gas rings can align all they want it should still cycle. Also tests have been done and the rifle will function with only 1 gas ring. Mine cycled with 2 , but unreliably , it would cycle some times and other times it would short stroke. I dont know about whats been proven where, but that's my firsthand experience. I think more then that was where the broke gas ring went, it got all mangled up and was riding between the bolt and the carrier. In any case it caused me some issues , and would be something I would check. |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 10:11:09 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
I bought an ar 15 with two mags on it. The unit will jam or not cycle a round. I have done the following : : detail oil and clean : replace extractor o ring : polished m4 feed ramps Ar specs : : core 15 upper : aero precision lower Ammo : 223 steel jams every 2-5rnds : 5.56 brass jam or won't cycle after 12rnds Yeah, we need more descriptive info on the "jam". Is it staying in the chamber and not extracting? Hanging up on the feed ramps? Not ejecting? Is the upper BRAND NEW or new to you? Have you run a pipe cleaner through the gas tube? |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 8:18:20 PM EDT
[#12]
Remove the O ring from the extractor and shoot again with decent quality brass ammo.
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Posted: 3/29/2015 10:47:12 PM EDT
[#13]
I have narrowed down the issue to the magazine. When I place the magazine inside the weapon it will not lock when the bolt is in the closed position however when it is open it will lock. I will test it when I'm at the range in the next few days.
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Posted: 3/30/2015 3:39:51 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thats and old wives tale. The gas rings can align all they want it should still cycle. Also tests have been done and the rifle will function with only 1 gas ring. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Check to make sure you got all your gas rings on the bolt, I broke a gas ring that got hung up in the bolt and caused a similar problem. Make sure the gas block is aligned correctly. Missing/worn out gas rings could be the cause of short cycling too. There should be three of the on the bolt. Do NOT align them. To test them you take the fully assembled bolt carrier group, pull the bolt to its most outward position. Set the BCG vertically upright on a flat surface very gently. The gas rings should have enough pressure on the inside of the carrier to hold the carrier body up. If not, I'd get new gas rings. Another thing you can easily check if you have access to the rifle. Thats and old wives tale. The gas rings can align all they want it should still cycle. Also tests have been done and the rifle will function with only 1 gas ring. Do you think it works 100% just as well, or do you think it could cause undergassing issues? How long do you think the one gas ring will last? Where I work, the AR's have HIGH round counts and they get a lot of maintenance. That's why we do that test I described. Gas rings do where out and it can cause issues. Many rifles these days are overgassed, and others need more. I know the designer of the AR15 had no idea WTF he was doing, obviously, and the parts in an AR15 don't wear out, mainly because they aren't needed in the first place; but I like to keep those parts anyway because the military does it. I said the do NOT align them, because I'm not sure he won't try to now that they've been pointed out. Never hurts to hear it once though. About it cycling with aligned rings, unless you use one solid ring, they'll move the second you put the bolt in the carrier and it twists. Not sure who or how it was tested. It's not a bad thing to want your weapon to have a properly maintained and optimized gas system.... simply cycling under normal conditions doesn't mean the gun is good to go. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 3:50:41 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mine cycled with 2 , but unreliably , it would cycle some times and other times it would short stroke. I dont know about whats been proven where, but that's my firsthand experience. I think more then that was where the broke gas ring went, it got all mangled up and was riding between the bolt and the carrier. In any case it caused me some issues , and would be something I would check. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Thats and old wives tale. The gas rings can align all they want it should still cycle. Also tests have been done and the rifle will function with only 1 gas ring. Mine cycled with 2 , but unreliably , it would cycle some times and other times it would short stroke. I dont know about whats been proven where, but that's my firsthand experience. I think more then that was where the broke gas ring went, it got all mangled up and was riding between the bolt and the carrier. In any case it caused me some issues , and would be something I would check. I'm guessing there was an article written somewhere. There are a LOT of those, saying a lot of various things. The only group I've heard of doing a decent test lately was Lucky Gunner, and people ignored the issues highlighted with economy grade AR's. Pick and choose. Pat Rogers wrote one about having a good, reliable go-to weapon, but I don't think anyone here read it. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 12:16:36 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have narrowed down the issue to the magazine. When I place the magazine inside the weapon it will not lock when the bolt is in the closed position however when it is open it will lock. I will test it when I'm at the range in the next few days. Is the magazine fully loaded when you try to seat it on a closed bolt? ARs are known to be difficult to reload from a bolt closed position especially if the mag is over loaded by one (it's easy to over load them) I suggest you take it to the range and take pictures when it messes up and post them here. You will need a photo bucket or other type of image hosting website. There are a lot of folks on here that can help you. Also you could take pictures of your buffer and bolt carrier group especially the gas key screws. Good luck |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 10:33:31 PM EDT
[#17]
Okay I just got back from the gun range and I still have the same problems. My next step is to replace the bolt or see if core will honor the warranty
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Posted: 3/30/2015 10:49:34 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Okay I just got back from the gun range and I still have the same problems. My next step is to replace the bolt or see if core will honor the warranty Why the heck would you replace the bolt? You either have a break-in, gas, or ammo problem. If there really is something wrong with it, and it is still under warranty, why are you dicking with it, and definitely why would you replace the bolt? If it needs a new bolt, which is highly unlikely, let them replace it. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 12:23:44 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Okay I just got back from the gun range and I still have the same problems. My next step is to replace the bolt or see if core will honor the warranty Don't go replacing things willy nilly. You haven't even described what type of malfunctions you're having to begin with, which makes it damn near impossible for us to help you. You obviously aren't even attempting to diagnose the problem yourself, so replacing parts is going to compound your issue, not help it. So, what type of malfunctions are you having? Is the rifle failing to feed/chamber ammunition? Is your rifle failing to extract the empty cases? Is it failing to eject the empty cases? BTW, having to exert more force to seat a fully loaded magazine on a closed bolt is a known thing and is to be expected. ETA: The sheer stupidity of the majority of advice being given here is absolutely astounding. OP hasn't even described what type of malfunction he's having, yet I've seen talk about extractor O-rings, gas rings, magazines, etc. 
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Posted: 3/31/2015 1:51:04 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't go replacing things willy nilly. You haven't even described what type of malfunctions you're having to begin with, which makes it damn near impossible for us to help you. You obviously aren't even attempting to diagnose the problem yourself, so replacing parts is going to compound your issue, not help it. So, what type of malfunctions are you having? Is the rifle failing to feed/chamber ammunition? Is your rifle failing to extract the empty cases? Is it failing to eject the empty cases? BTW, having to exert more force to seat a fully loaded magazine on a closed bolt is a known thing and is to be expected. ETA: The sheer stupidity of the majority of advice being given here is absolutely astounding. OP hasn't even described what type of malfunction he's having, yet I've seen talk about extractor O-rings, gas rings, magazines, etc. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Okay I just got back from the gun range and I still have the same problems. My next step is to replace the bolt or see if core will honor the warranty Don't go replacing things willy nilly. You haven't even described what type of malfunctions you're having to begin with, which makes it damn near impossible for us to help you. You obviously aren't even attempting to diagnose the problem yourself, so replacing parts is going to compound your issue, not help it. So, what type of malfunctions are you having? Is the rifle failing to feed/chamber ammunition? Is your rifle failing to extract the empty cases? Is it failing to eject the empty cases? BTW, having to exert more force to seat a fully loaded magazine on a closed bolt is a known thing and is to be expected. ETA: The sheer stupidity of the majority of advice being given here is absolutely astounding. OP hasn't even described what type of malfunction he's having, yet I've seen talk about extractor O-rings, gas rings, magazines, etc. The issue with the rifle is the following : the gun after firing 5 rounds will not feed : will at random not eject the spent shell : will not load a round from the magazine : or most of the time jam |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 2:32:54 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The issue with the rifle is the following : the gun after firing 5 rounds will not feed : will at random not eject the spent shell : will not load a round from the magazine : or most of the time jam Ok, that helps some. When you say it will not feed after 5 rounds, what are the rounds doing? Are they getting hung up on the feed lips? Is the BCG not traveling far enough rearward to pick up the next round in the magazine? At random, it won't eject. Do you mean that the empty case is being extracted from the chamber, but fails to be ejected outside the receiver? Or is the gun not extracting the empty case from the chamber? When you said it won't load a round from the magazine, does this pertain to the first issue? Is the BCG not traveling far enough rearward to pick up the next round from the magazine? |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 7:50:10 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok, that helps some. When you say it will not feed after 5 rounds, what are the rounds doing? Are they getting hung up on the feed lips? Is the BCG not traveling far enough rearward to pick up the next round in the magazine? At random, it won't eject. Do you mean that the empty case is being extracted from the chamber, but fails to be ejected outside the receiver? Or is the gun not extracting the empty case from the chamber? When you said it won't load a round from the magazine, does this pertain to the first issue? Is the BCG not traveling far enough rearward to pick up the next round from the magazine? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The issue with the rifle is the following : the gun after firing 5 rounds will not feed : will at random not eject the spent shell : will not load a round from the magazine : or most of the time jam Ok, that helps some. When you say it will not feed after 5 rounds, what are the rounds doing? Are they getting hung up on the feed lips? Is the BCG not traveling far enough rearward to pick up the next round in the magazine? At random, it won't eject. Do you mean that the empty case is being extracted from the chamber, but fails to be ejected outside the receiver? Or is the gun not extracting the empty case from the chamber? When you said it won't load a round from the magazine, does this pertain to the first issue? Is the BCG not traveling far enough rearward to pick up the next round from the magazine? : the rounds won't feed into the m4 feed ramps : the bolt carrier group will not move at all. Not ejecting the spent shell. : the bolt will travel but will not pick up the next round |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 7:54:37 AM EDT
[#23]
Your problem is either shit ammo, or you have a gas leak. I vote shit ammo.
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Posted: 3/31/2015 8:33:35 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your problem is either shit ammo, or you have a gas leak. I vote shit ammo. I think I will agree with you. He has already admitted to running steel-cased ammo. It also sounds to me that he is really new to ARs and has no idea. Additionally, he said this AR has a CORE15 upper and a AERO Precision lower. This is a build and not a complete CORE15 AR. Also, he has already done some work on it by polishing the feed ramps. Frankly, I do not see CORE15 doing anything unless it is out of the kindness of their heart. If it was a complete AR assembled and tested by them, that is one thing, but this was snapped together by somebody. I find it strange that I have built a few dozen ARs over the past 11 years and I have never had any issues with any of mine, nor any new factory AR I have bought, but some of these new guys that know very little to nothing about the AR platform can have all of these problems. There are usually a couple common denominators that are at fault, the operator and cheap steel-cased ammo. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 8:57:32 AM EDT
[#25]
I had similar problems on a new build when I ran some cheap steal cased ammo through it. It sounds like that could be your problem. If you haven't already, I would clean the chamber really well with a chamber brush. Take the clean rifle back to the range with brass cased 5.56 (not .223) and see how it does. Do not shoot any steel cased ammo once it's been cleaned until you verify that it runs properly with brass cased ammo.
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Posted: 3/31/2015 9:08:34 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I find it strange that I have built a few dozen ARs over the past 11 years and I have never had any issues with any of mine, nor any new factory AR I have bought, but some of these new guys that know very little to nothing about the AR platform can have all of these problems. There are usually a couple common denominators that are at fault, the operator and cheap steel-cased ammo. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Your problem is either shit ammo, or you have a gas leak. I vote shit ammo. I find it strange that I have built a few dozen ARs over the past 11 years and I have never had any issues with any of mine, nor any new factory AR I have bought, but some of these new guys that know very little to nothing about the AR platform can have all of these problems. There are usually a couple common denominators that are at fault, the operator and cheap steel-cased ammo. In the past year alone I have built 5 AR's for myself, two for my son-in-law, one for my brother, and one for one of my grandsons. They all run smoothly with zero malfunctions. I did have some trouble with cycling issues with one of them, but I narrowed it down to a problem with my reloads/resizing die...not the rifle. IMO, I think the OP needs to 1.) Get some quality ammo, and 2.) go to the range with someone who has some decent experience with AR rifles. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 9:27:24 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your problem is either shit ammo, or you have a gas leak. I vote shit ammo. I have been using brass practice ammo after the first day at the range. I have used two types of brass 5.56 & 223 still the same issue. The dealer said I have to go through the manufacturer for warranty issues. This ar is my second so I'm now new to the ar platform. Lesson learned no steel case ammo & not all YouTube videos are right. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 10:03:59 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have been using brass practice ammo after the first day at the range. I have used two types of brass 5.56 & 223 still the same issue. The dealer said I have to go through the manufacturer for warranty issues. This ar is my second so I'm now new to the ar platform. Lesson learned no steel case ammo & not all YouTube videos are right. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Your problem is either shit ammo, or you have a gas leak. I vote shit ammo. I have been using brass practice ammo after the first day at the range. I have used two types of brass 5.56 & 223 still the same issue. The dealer said I have to go through the manufacturer for warranty issues. This ar is my second so I'm now new to the ar platform. Lesson learned no steel case ammo & not all YouTube videos are right. What I would suggest is to put the CORE15 upper on another lower and see how it performs. If there is no issue, then your problem is not with the upper. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 10:54:58 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think I will agree with you. He has already admitted to running steel-cased ammo. It also sounds to me that he is really new to ARs and has no idea. Additionally, he said this AR has a CORE15 upper and a AERO Precision lower. This is a build and not a complete CORE15 AR. Also, he has already done some work on it by polishing the feed ramps. Frankly, I do not see CORE15 doing anything unless it is out of the kindness of their heart. If it was a complete AR assembled and tested by them, that is one thing, but this was snapped together by somebody. I find it strange that I have built a few dozen ARs over the past 11 years and I have never had any issues with any of mine, nor any new factory AR I have bought, but some of these new guys that know very little to nothing about the AR platform can have all of these problems. There are usually a couple common denominators that are at fault, the operator and cheap steel-cased ammo. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Your problem is either shit ammo, or you have a gas leak. I vote shit ammo. I think I will agree with you. He has already admitted to running steel-cased ammo. It also sounds to me that he is really new to ARs and has no idea. Additionally, he said this AR has a CORE15 upper and a AERO Precision lower. This is a build and not a complete CORE15 AR. Also, he has already done some work on it by polishing the feed ramps. Frankly, I do not see CORE15 doing anything unless it is out of the kindness of their heart. If it was a complete AR assembled and tested by them, that is one thing, but this was snapped together by somebody. I find it strange that I have built a few dozen ARs over the past 11 years and I have never had any issues with any of mine, nor any new factory AR I have bought, but some of these new guys that know very little to nothing about the AR platform can have all of these problems. There are usually a couple common denominators that are at fault, the operator and cheap steel-cased ammo. OP, sounds like you have a gas leak. can you post pics of your rifle? Use photobucket or flickr to host the photos. Pics of bolt carrier from the top, so we can see the key, your gas block, the inside of your upper, etc. Did you buy the rifle already assembled from a gun store? You said you have another AR? Can you use the bolt carrier group from the other AR in the problem AR? That might help isolate the problem. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 11:04:03 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What I would suggest is to put the CORE15 upper on another lower and see how it performs. If there is no issue, then your problem is not with the upper. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Your problem is either shit ammo, or you have a gas leak. I vote shit ammo. I have been using brass practice ammo after the first day at the range. I have used two types of brass 5.56 & 223 still the same issue. The dealer said I have to go through the manufacturer for warranty issues. This ar is my second so I'm now new to the ar platform. Lesson learned no steel case ammo & not all YouTube videos are right. What I would suggest is to put the CORE15 upper on another lower and see how it performs. If there is no issue, then your problem is not with the upper. Just because you own 30 ARs and post pics of them doesn't mean you know shit about diagnosing functioning problems. The condescension in your last post was pretty unnecessary as well. I'm sure we're all glad that you built so many wonderful rifles and never use steel cased ammo. But some of us do, and it works fine. New shooters are often young and don't have the funds or a desire to spend the extra $ on brass ammo or $2000 rifles. I've built a few $400 rifles that work 100% with steel case ammo. I also have big money rifles that do not function with steel case ammo, which is usually due to undersized gas ports optimized to shoot only 556 pressure ammo. Maybe you should stick to pic threads. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 11:22:06 AM EDT
[#31]
I'll post pictures later I'm in a class required by my department
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Posted: 3/31/2015 11:50:51 AM EDT
[#32]
This sounds very much like a gas leak issue. While weak ammo is a possibility, I highly doubt it's the source of the problem.
OP, we need to see some pics of the rifle whenever you get a chance. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 12:49:12 PM EDT
[#33]
Before getting too excited, perhaps get that chamber really clean. It may be a tight chamber or still have a lot of manufacturing preservative still in place. It may be the gas block port and barrel port misalignment too. That is not uncommon.
Let's be steady and disciplined in approaching the problem. Throwing stones at each other is, with respect to all, is not constructive. Instead, y''all blast me for being a peacemaker, if that makes you happy, but it does not help OP.. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 1:02:35 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's highly unlikely that the lower is causing cycling problems. Highly. Just because you own 30 ARs and post pics of them doesn't mean you know shit about diagnosing functioning problems. The condescension in your last post was pretty unnecessary as well. I'm sure we're all glad that you built so many wonderful rifles and never use steel cased ammo. But some of us do, and it works fine. New shooters are often young and don't have the funds or a desire to spend the extra $ on brass ammo or $2000 rifles. I've built a few $400 rifles that work 100% with steel case ammo. I also have big money rifles that do not function with steel case ammo, which is usually due to undersized gas ports optimized to shoot only 556 pressure ammo. Maybe you should stick to pic threads. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Your problem is either shit ammo, or you have a gas leak. I vote shit ammo. I have been using brass practice ammo after the first day at the range. I have used two types of brass 5.56 & 223 still the same issue. The dealer said I have to go through the manufacturer for warranty issues. This ar is my second so I'm now new to the ar platform. Lesson learned no steel case ammo & not all YouTube videos are right. What I would suggest is to put the CORE15 upper on another lower and see how it performs. If there is no issue, then your problem is not with the upper. Just because you own 30 ARs and post pics of them doesn't mean you know shit about diagnosing functioning problems. The condescension in your last post was pretty unnecessary as well. I'm sure we're all glad that you built so many wonderful rifles and never use steel cased ammo. But some of us do, and it works fine. New shooters are often young and don't have the funds or a desire to spend the extra $ on brass ammo or $2000 rifles. I've built a few $400 rifles that work 100% with steel case ammo. I also have big money rifles that do not function with steel case ammo, which is usually due to undersized gas ports optimized to shoot only 556 pressure ammo. Maybe you should stick to pic threads. It is really nice how you turned this into an attack on me. You obviously have not read and comprehended the OP's issues very well. It does not sound like a gas issue at all. To me, it sounds like the issue is with the BCG engaging the magazine and causing some of the issues. Ammo can also be another culprit as well. The issue almost sounds like the magazine may be sitting a little too high and causing the BCG to bind somewhat an not allowing for the proper feeding and extraction of the rounds. This could be cause by the lower being slightly out of spec. This is why I recommended trying the upper on another lower to see if the problem still exist. I am also curious as to how the OP acquired the AR. Was it purchased used from an individual or a shop? Did these problems exist before he bought it and were they disclosed? Just to let you know, I do know quite a bit and certainly enough about ARs to assess the cause of a problem. I have done this many times over the years. It often helps when we have the whole story, proper terminology, and photographs when assessing a problem. As for my earlier comment, I do not sugar-coat anything. I want to hit the bull between the eyes and get down to brass tacks. I do not like to beat around the bush either. There is more to this story than is being told. He have no history on this AR and the OP has not told or showed us anything that is specific that clarifies the situation 100%. You can bad-mouth me all you want if it makes you feel better. You do not know me from Adam and that is the way I would like to keep it. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 2:17:37 PM EDT
[#35]
Guy's chill
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Posted: 3/31/2015 3:22:58 PM EDT
[#36]
Have we determined if the OP has a different mag to try, or just the one? I'd go get a PMAG and see if it works.
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Posted: 3/31/2015 3:52:36 PM EDT
[#37]
Definately sounds like a gas issue.
Kinda surprised no one mentioned the old, load 1 round, shoot it, see if bolt locks back, test. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 5:35:07 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Definately sounds like a gas issue. Kinda surprised no one mentioned the old, load 1 round, shoot it, see if bolt locks back, test. I would do this...and several other things. I'd also try some USGI mags (he has two P-mags). I'd try a different BCG. I'd try a different lower altogether. I'd buy one box of quality match ammo from a reputable company (heck, he won't even divulge what brand ammo he's using). I'd try a heavier/lighter buffer. This is why I recommend he go back to the range with someone (friend) that has a good working knowledge of AR rifles...not because the OP is lacking knowledge, but rather two heads are better than one and the friend can bring an AR (or two) of his own to try different parts with. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 7:05:06 PM EDT
[#39]
Ok here are some pics. I did go to the gun range yesterday and both Magpul mags and also USGI magazines and I got the same result. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 10:25:43 PM EDT
[#40]
How is that gas block attached?
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Posted: 4/1/2015 12:06:40 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How is that gas block attached? It's attached with two Allen head screws on the bottom. |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 12:46:54 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's attached with two Allen head screws on the bottom. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How is that gas block attached? It's attached with two Allen head screws on the bottom. My personal suggestion, is to take it to a local competent gunsmith, or back to the individual you bought it from and have them fix it. Internet gunsmithing is extremely difficult, but they'll never be a lack of enthusiasm or spitballing solutions around here. |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 1:28:35 AM EDT
[#43]
I have to go through the manufacturer. The guy said it was fine when I had it.
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Posted: 4/1/2015 6:14:20 AM EDT
[#44]
This should be "virtually" the first thing you do anytime you have a problem like this.
-Load the rifle with one round from the magazine. Use quality ammunition and a proven magazine for this. -Aim downrange and fire, the bolt should catch on the bolt stop. Hold the rifle as loosely as possible. -Reload and repeat the process if the rifle does not lock open. Depress the bottom of the bolt stop before firing this time. This allows for weak magazine springs, sticky followers, or an overly strong bolt catch spring. -If the bolt does not lock open then there is a gas system problem. Investigate and repair the problem. |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 7:21:55 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you think it works 100% just as well, or do you think it could cause undergassing issues? How long do you think the one gas ring will last? Where I work, the AR's have HIGH round counts and they get a lot of maintenance. That's why we do that test I described. Gas rings do where out and it can cause issues. Many rifles these days are overgassed, and others need more. I know the designer of the AR15 had no idea WTF he was doing, obviously, and the parts in an AR15 don't wear out, mainly because they aren't needed in the first place; but I like to keep those parts anyway because the military does it. I said the do NOT align them, because I'm not sure he won't try to now that they've been pointed out. Never hurts to hear it once though. About it cycling with aligned rings, unless you use one solid ring, they'll move the second you put the bolt in the carrier and it twists. Not sure who or how it was tested. It's not a bad thing to want your weapon to have a properly maintained and optimized gas system.... simply cycling under normal conditions doesn't mean the gun is good to go. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Check to make sure you got all your gas rings on the bolt, I broke a gas ring that got hung up in the bolt and caused a similar problem. Make sure the gas block is aligned correctly. Missing/worn out gas rings could be the cause of short cycling too. There should be three of the on the bolt. Do NOT align them. To test them you take the fully assembled bolt carrier group, pull the bolt to its most outward position. Set the BCG vertically upright on a flat surface very gently. The gas rings should have enough pressure on the inside of the carrier to hold the carrier body up. If not, I'd get new gas rings. Another thing you can easily check if you have access to the rifle. Thats and old wives tale. The gas rings can align all they want it should still cycle. Also tests have been done and the rifle will function with only 1 gas ring. Do you think it works 100% just as well, or do you think it could cause undergassing issues? How long do you think the one gas ring will last? Where I work, the AR's have HIGH round counts and they get a lot of maintenance. That's why we do that test I described. Gas rings do where out and it can cause issues. Many rifles these days are overgassed, and others need more. I know the designer of the AR15 had no idea WTF he was doing, obviously, and the parts in an AR15 don't wear out, mainly because they aren't needed in the first place; but I like to keep those parts anyway because the military does it. I said the do NOT align them, because I'm not sure he won't try to now that they've been pointed out. Never hurts to hear it once though. About it cycling with aligned rings, unless you use one solid ring, they'll move the second you put the bolt in the carrier and it twists. Not sure who or how it was tested. It's not a bad thing to want your weapon to have a properly maintained and optimized gas system.... simply cycling under normal conditions doesn't mean the gun is good to go. I never said not to check for worn gas rings. In fact I recommend replacing them after 3-5k rounds. Im simply replying to aligned gas rings myth. Following the logic train if the AR will run with only 1 gas ring then gas rings aligning should not be problem. Otherwise the AR would randomly malfunction when the gas rings just happen to align during normal cycling. |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 11:40:11 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Missing/worn out gas rings could be the cause of short cycling too. There should be three of the on the bolt. Do NOT align them. To test them you take the fully assembled bolt carrier group, pull the bolt to its most outward position. Set the BCG vertically upright on a flat surface very gently. The gas rings should have enough pressure on the inside of the carrier to hold the carrier body up. If not, I'd get new gas rings. Another thing you can easily check if you have access to the rifle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Check to make sure you got all your gas rings on the bolt, I broke a gas ring that got hung up in the bolt and caused a similar problem. Make sure the gas block is aligned correctly. Missing/worn out gas rings could be the cause of short cycling too. There should be three of the on the bolt. Do NOT align them. To test them you take the fully assembled bolt carrier group, pull the bolt to its most outward position. Set the BCG vertically upright on a flat surface very gently. The gas rings should have enough pressure on the inside of the carrier to hold the carrier body up. If not, I'd get new gas rings. Another thing you can easily check if you have access to the rifle. The gaps in the gas rings are closed when the bolt is put back into the carrier by the reduced diameter inside the carrier right behind the cam pin hole. Pull your bolt out of the carrier. Look inside the carrier and you'll see a ledge right behind the cam pin hole, this is the area that compresses the gas rings. Now put your bolt back in. It slides right in easily until the gas rings hit that ledge. A little more force puts pressure on the gas rings, closing the gaps in the gas rings, allowing the bolt to slide back into place. So with the gaps now gone, it doesn't matter if all three were lined up. |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 4:19:38 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is really nice how you turned this into an attack on me. You obviously have not read and comprehended the OP's issues very well. It does not sound like a gas issue at all. To me, it sounds like the issue is with the BCG engaging the magazine and causing some of the issues. Ammo can also be another culprit as well. The issue almost sounds like the magazine may be sitting a little too high and causing the BCG to bind somewhat an not allowing for the proper feeding and extraction of the rounds. This could be cause by the lower being slightly out of spec. This is why I recommended trying the upper on another lower to see if the problem still exist. I am also curious as to how the OP acquired the AR. Was it purchased used from an individual or a shop? Did these problems exist before he bought it and were they disclosed? Just to let you know, I do know quite a bit and certainly enough about ARs to assess the cause of a problem. I have done this many times over the years. It often helps when we have the whole story, proper terminology, and photographs when assessing a problem. As for my earlier comment, I do not sugar-coat anything. I want to hit the bull between the eyes and get down to brass tacks. I do not like to beat around the bush either. There is more to this story than is being told. He have no history on this AR and the OP has not told or showed us anything that is specific that clarifies the situation 100%. You can bad-mouth me all you want if it makes you feel better. You do not know me from Adam and that is the way I would like to keep it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Your problem is either shit ammo, or you have a gas leak. I vote shit ammo. I have been using brass practice ammo after the first day at the range. I have used two types of brass 5.56 & 223 still the same issue. The dealer said I have to go through the manufacturer for warranty issues. This ar is my second so I'm now new to the ar platform. Lesson learned no steel case ammo & not all YouTube videos are right. What I would suggest is to put the CORE15 upper on another lower and see how it performs. If there is no issue, then your problem is not with the upper. Just because you own 30 ARs and post pics of them doesn't mean you know shit about diagnosing functioning problems. The condescension in your last post was pretty unnecessary as well. I'm sure we're all glad that you built so many wonderful rifles and never use steel cased ammo. But some of us do, and it works fine. New shooters are often young and don't have the funds or a desire to spend the extra $ on brass ammo or $2000 rifles. I've built a few $400 rifles that work 100% with steel case ammo. I also have big money rifles that do not function with steel case ammo, which is usually due to undersized gas ports optimized to shoot only 556 pressure ammo. Maybe you should stick to pic threads. It is really nice how you turned this into an attack on me. You obviously have not read and comprehended the OP's issues very well. It does not sound like a gas issue at all. To me, it sounds like the issue is with the BCG engaging the magazine and causing some of the issues. Ammo can also be another culprit as well. The issue almost sounds like the magazine may be sitting a little too high and causing the BCG to bind somewhat an not allowing for the proper feeding and extraction of the rounds. This could be cause by the lower being slightly out of spec. This is why I recommended trying the upper on another lower to see if the problem still exist. I am also curious as to how the OP acquired the AR. Was it purchased used from an individual or a shop? Did these problems exist before he bought it and were they disclosed? Just to let you know, I do know quite a bit and certainly enough about ARs to assess the cause of a problem. I have done this many times over the years. It often helps when we have the whole story, proper terminology, and photographs when assessing a problem. As for my earlier comment, I do not sugar-coat anything. I want to hit the bull between the eyes and get down to brass tacks. I do not like to beat around the bush either. There is more to this story than is being told. He have no history on this AR and the OP has not told or showed us anything that is specific that clarifies the situation 100%. You can bad-mouth me all you want if it makes you feel better. You do not know me from Adam and that is the way I would like to keep it. You don't like to sugar coat, but then complain when someone treats you the same.
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Posted: 4/1/2015 7:48:39 PM EDT
[#48]
Any looseness in the handguard cap? The gas block should be seated firmly against the cap. Maybe it's just the pics, but it looks like there is a gap between the handguard cap and the gas block, which would cause misalignment between the gas block and gas port.
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Posted: 4/1/2015 9:31:53 PM EDT
[#49]
I did buy a new gas block and yes there was a gap on the grip.
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Posted: 4/1/2015 9:33:50 PM EDT
[#50]
If you want to ship it to me in AZ, I'll diagnose and fix it for no cost other than return shipping and any parts it might need. I just fixed another member's rifle last weekend that had turned into a single shot. His gas tube roll pin had vanished and the gas tube was sliding freely. I have professional armorer experience, and worked for an SOT for 2 years.
IM me if you're interested. |
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