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Posted: 1/30/2015 1:01:36 PM EDT
[#1]
What kind of mags you using?
Edit : have you tried other mags |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 1:02:28 PM EDT
[#2]
So once a round has been successfully stripped and fired, the normal operation of the rifle will eject the spent brass, and strip a new round, chamber, fire and eject normally?
It just doesn't work with a full magazine inserted while the BCG ir in battery? Have you tried them all with 29 rounds, or 28, etc in the magazine to see if the spring tension is just too much? I |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 1:09:49 PM EDT
[#3]
Quick question. Are you inserting the fully loaded magazine far enough that it will click onto the magazine catch? That you can't pull the magazine out without the mag button being pressed?
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Posted: 1/30/2015 1:14:15 PM EDT
[#4]
You aren't retracting the charging handle fully to the rear before releasing it. Yank it till it stops and then let it fly home.
ETA: This isn't a mag problem. He clearly states that they function fine without FTF or FTE once a round is chambered. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 1:16:35 PM EDT
[#5]
I guess 10-rd mags because of NY, right? Still, it does it with more than one mag, right? It's hard to see why you'd suddenly have a problem with all 3 rifles, but it sounds oddly like you're not pulling the charging handle back far enough since it will feed when the bolt is released from full lock back, and it feeds when firing. But then...even that sounds ridiculous if you've been using these rifles in the past with no issue. Are these 10-rd pmags full when you're doing this? Tried it with just a few rounds in the mags? I don't know...3 rifles, different mags, issue hasn't occurred before, rifles and mags have functioned together before with no issue...has that classic user error symptom instead of equipment malfunction. Is your ammo different or such? Damned interesting.
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Posted: 1/30/2015 1:20:10 PM EDT
[#6]
10 round PMAGs have a tight fit.
Download to 9 and report back.
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Posted: 1/30/2015 1:20:47 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You aren't retracting the charging handle fully to the rear before releasing it. Yank it till it stops and then let it fly home. ETA: This isn't a mag problem. He clearly states that they function fine without FTF or FTE once a round is chambered. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 1:26:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
+1 since there is no problems with live fire. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You aren't retracting the charging handle fully to the rear before releasing it. Yank it till it stops and then let it fly home. ETA: This isn't a mag problem. He clearly states that they function fine without FTF or FTE once a round is chambered. This sounds likely. The bolt will lock back with the bolt catch resting on the carrier and not the bolt, but it isn't far enough back to strip a round. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 1:41:00 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
On 3 different rifles, If I insert a magazine with the bolt closed and pull & release charging handle a round will not be stripped and chambered. So what does happen with you do this? From your description, the only assumption can be that when you release the bolt, it stops when it hits the top round in the mag...and I think that is hardly the case. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 1:45:26 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
10 round PMAGs have a tight fit. Download to 9 and report back. This. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 1:50:16 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
10 round PMAGs have a tight fit. Download to 9 and report back. This. Gonna go with this. I have a 5 round DPMS mag that will hold 5 but will not seat fully with the bolt closed. Open bolt and insert, it works fine. Download to 4 and insert on a closed bolt, works fine. There isn't enough extra travel left for the ammo to set down when fully filled. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 1:55:43 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
On 3 different rifles, If I insert a magazine with the bolt closed and pull & release charging handle a round will not be stripped and chambered. It's the oddest thing, happens on all 3 of my rifles. If I drop the mag, lock the bolt back, reinsert mag and drop the bolt with the bolt catch the rifles function fine. I've tried this on various mags at various times (Only use 10 round PMAGS). It has taken a while to experiment with this becasue I rarely have all 3 rifles at the range together. Each rifle has a lower built by me, two with a PSA parts kit, one with a Blackhawk parts kit. Two PSA uppers and one DSG upper (All with their own BCG's. I never switch them between rifles). I did something wrong; only logical reason it's happening to all 3. The rifles function 100% otherwise. Never had a single misfeed, FTF or FTE. Ideas? Sounds like mechanically the rifle is fine, so I guess you can figure out the rest of my post. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 2:20:16 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
10 round PMAGs have a tight fit. Download to 9 and report back. This. Pretty much that. Normal PMAGS are designed with a little more room so that you can load the full 30 rounds and still easily insert the magazine on a closed bolt. A byproduct of this is that you can physically load 31 rounds into a 30 round magazine. However, if you do so, you're going to have the same problem as you've described due to the increased tension of the top cartridge against the feed lips. I'd bet that Magpul, wanting to sell in ban states, wants to make sure that you cannot physically load an eleventh round in their 10 round magazine. So it's going to be tight, with the additional tension. Since you're pulling back the charging handle and releasing it, I suppose that you aren't / can't release the charging handle to allow the bolt carrier to go forward with the same velocity and impulse that the bolt carrier has when released via the bolt catch lever. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 2:25:53 PM EDT
[#14]
Hmmmm......I've got 5 different AR's and LOTS of 10-round PMAGS....loaded to 10, and never had this problem
I vote operator error. Pull the charging handle FULLY rearward! |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 2:29:03 PM EDT
[#15]
charging handle fully rearward...give the mag a little tap on the bottom to make sure it is fully seated, or try dropping it to 9.
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Posted: 1/30/2015 2:30:06 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You aren't retracting the charging handle fully to the rear before releasing it. Yank it till it stops and then let it fly home. This. The fact that it's happening on all three of your rifles is a good clue. C'mon...manhandle it! |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 2:41:11 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hmmmm......I've got 5 different AR's and LOTS of 10-round PMAGS....loaded to 10, and never had this problem I vote operator error. Pull the charging handle FULLY rearward! ETA: I can chamber a round on my Gen 3 10r on a closed bolt too, but its much harder. I have to man handle it so yea it could be operator error too. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 2:47:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gen 3 factory 10s or converted 20/30 rounders? ETA: I can chamber a round on my Gen 3 10r on a closed bolt too, but its much harder. I have to man handle it so yea it could be operator error too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hmmmm......I've got 5 different AR's and LOTS of 10-round PMAGS....loaded to 10, and never had this problem I vote operator error. Pull the charging handle FULLY rearward! ETA: I can chamber a round on my Gen 3 10r on a closed bolt too, but its much harder. I have to man handle it so yea it could be operator error too. Gen3 10's |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 4:28:17 PM EDT
[#19]
Thanks for the replies all. At least now I have a few things to try.
I will report back next range visit. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 4:32:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what does happen with you do this? From your description, the only assumption can be that when you release the bolt, it stops when it hits the top round in the mag...and I think that is hardly the case. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
On 3 different rifles, If I insert a magazine with the bolt closed and pull & release charging handle a round will not be stripped and chambered. So what does happen with you do this? From your description, the only assumption can be that when you release the bolt, it stops when it hits the top round in the mag...and I think that is hardly the case. The bolt carrier seems to float right over the top round in the mag. Weird, right? I'm trying to remember if I had to remove the mag and reinsert to get a round to chamber or if simply locking the bolt back and releasing the the bolt catch cured it each time. For some reason I think I had to remove and reinsert so I'm thinking this is operator error. Perhaps i'm not driving the mag home all the way. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 4:37:45 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what does happen with you do this? From your description, the only assumption can be that when you release the bolt, it stops when it hits the top round in the mag...and I think that is hardly the case. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
On 3 different rifles, If I insert a magazine with the bolt closed and pull & release charging handle a round will not be stripped and chambered. So what does happen with you do this? From your description, the only assumption can be that when you release the bolt, it stops when it hits the top round in the mag...and I think that is hardly the case. I think it goes into battery...just with no round in the chamber....flies right past the mag without stripping a round. I agree with whomever said it sounds like he's not pulling the charging handle back far enough. That's the only scenario I could imagine what he's describing happening. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 5:43:39 PM EDT
[#22]
I don't know about that - sounds like the mag is not fully locked and consequently is riding low so the bolt misses the top round. When he locks the bolt back then locks in the mag and releases the bolt, function is normal. I just don't know why guys insist on locking in a mag on a closed bolt. Lock the bolt back and lock the charging handle forward. Lock magazine. Hit bolt release. Fire. Bolt locks back on empty mag - repeat. But if you insist on doing the 'tactical reload' (after firing in an action and not knowing your remaining round count, and having a moment to do so, you drop the existing mag and lock in a loaded one), you'll have to find magazines that will lock against the bolt.
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Posted: 1/30/2015 5:58:13 PM EDT
[#23]
Gotta ask, do you pull ch all the way back then let it go, or are you riding it forward?
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Posted: 1/30/2015 6:05:24 PM EDT
[#24]
Slam the mag in and don't follow the charging handle home. Pull it back all the way and let it drop.
Even doing the above, I've had this issue with a couple rifles with poly-coated steel case like Wolf, for the first round in a full mag. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 6:07:13 PM EDT
[#25]
This is a common thing OP. Load your magazines with 28 or 29 rounds instead of 30.
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Posted: 1/30/2015 7:12:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is a common thing OP. Load your magazines with 28 or 29 rounds instead of 30. Reading comprehension??? 
He only uses 10 ROUND magazines. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 9:07:59 PM EDT
[#27]
Yeah, I'm stuck behind enemy lines. I doubt I have the finger strength to fire 30 rounds.
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Posted: 1/30/2015 9:15:40 PM EDT
[#28]
<nevermind>
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Posted: 1/30/2015 9:25:11 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The bolt carrier seems to float right over the top round in the mag. Weird, right?
The magazine probably isn't fully seated. You can double-check by pulling down on the mag after inserting it. If it comes out, it's not fully seated. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 11:14:22 PM EDT
[#30]
Try loading up the mags with 10 rounds and than put the mag cover on the mag and let them sit for a few days. Take the mag covers off and then try to chamber a round. This may help to compress the mag spring slightly and give your mags a little play which may allow you to fully seat your mag into the magwell.
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Posted: 1/30/2015 11:26:38 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is a common thing OP. Load your magazines with 28 or 29 rounds instead of 30. OP is from NY. Just 10rds for him now. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 11:35:19 PM EDT
[#32]
I've experienced this myself from time to time.
Several of my lowers started out as 80%ers. Being as the mag latch slot was already machined in, I can't alter the amount of magazine engagement, but the slots are in the correct location. As others have pointed out, with a nearly full or full mag, it can be difficult to insert the mag fully. I finally learned, when inserting a full mag on a closed bolt, I give the mag a tap on the bottom with the palm of my hand then I try to pull the mag out to make sure it's latched in. Joe |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 6:02:23 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've experienced this myself from time to time. Several of my lowers started out as 80%ers. Being as the mag latch slot was already machined in, I can't alter the amount of magazine engagement, but the slots are in the correct location. As others have pointed out, with a nearly full or full mag, it can be difficult to insert the mag fully. I finally learned, when inserting a full mag on a closed bolt, I give the mag a tap on the bottom with the palm of my hand then I try to pull the mag out to make sure it's latched in. Joe That is SOP. |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 4:03:32 AM EDT
[#34]
Making sure the magazine is seated is good, but locking the bolt to the rear before before inserting a magazine and then using the bolt release would make that irrelevant.
I'm assuming we're intending to load the rifle here; inserting a loaded mag on a closed bolt and not chambering a round and just leaving it there is a good way to lose loaded mags.
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Posted: 2/1/2015 10:08:05 AM EDT
[#35]
If it runs fine after the first shot the gun mechanically is fine it's just user error. Sometimes full loaded mags can be hard to insert with the BCG forward also make sure you pull the charging handle back as far as it goes and let to quickly.
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Posted: 2/8/2015 8:44:42 PM EDT
[#36]
Everyone who said "user error" was absolutely correct. I was not inserting the mag far enough in to the mag well.
Shot two of my 3 rifles today with no issue chambering a round on a closed bolt. 
Thanks to everyone who replied. |
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Posted: 2/8/2015 10:18:24 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the replies all. At least now I have a few things to try. I will report back next range visit. Report back next range visit? Don't you have your three rifles at home with you? Put a mag in one of them, make sure its fully seated, pull charging handle all the way to the rear, let go of charging handle, and see if a round chambers! Why would you have to wait until your next range visit to do this? |
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Posted: 2/8/2015 10:24:55 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quick question. Are you inserting the fully loaded magazine far enough that it will click onto the magazine catch? That you can't pull the magazine out without the mag button being pressed? This would be my question. |
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Posted: 2/8/2015 10:28:51 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Everyone who said "user error" was absolutely correct. I was not inserting the mag far enough in to the mag well. Shot two of my 3 rifles today with no issue chambering a round on a closed bolt.
Thanks to everyone who replied. I've never understood this when people say their mag wasn't fully seated. You guys must have some very tight magwells. Out of all the lowers I own, none of them will support even an empty mag without the mag catch being engaged. Mags drop free from all of them with no issues. There's no way any of them would retain a loaded magazine without the mag catch being engaged... |
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Posted: 2/9/2015 11:23:05 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've never understood this when people say their mag wasn't fully seated. You guys must have some very tight magwells. Out of all the lowers I own, none of them will support even an empty mag without the mag catch being engaged. Mags drop free from all of them with no issues. There's no way any of them would retain a loaded magazine without the mag catch being engaged... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Everyone who said "user error" was absolutely correct. I was not inserting the mag far enough in to the mag well. Shot two of my 3 rifles today with no issue chambering a round on a closed bolt.
Thanks to everyone who replied. I've never understood this when people say their mag wasn't fully seated. You guys must have some very tight magwells. Out of all the lowers I own, none of them will support even an empty mag without the mag catch being engaged. Mags drop free from all of them with no issues. There's no way any of them would retain a loaded magazine without the mag catch being engaged... I can only speak for myself but in my case the 10 round mag would feel like it was clicking in to place but it wasn't. A little push on the mag and there was a second "click" which fully seated it. It was enough to fool me. As for why the mag didn't fall out, I was shooting at the local range, not running laps, jumping out of airplanes or using my rifle as a Cricket bat so I guess there wasn't enough activity to force the mag to fall out. |
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Posted: 2/9/2015 11:26:12 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Report back next range visit? Don't you have your three rifles at home with you? Put a mag in one of them, make sure its fully seated, pull charging handle all the way to the rear, let go of charging handle, and see if a round chambers! Why would you have to wait until your next range visit to do this? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for the replies all. At least now I have a few things to try. I will report back next range visit. Report back next range visit? Don't you have your three rifles at home with you? Put a mag in one of them, make sure its fully seated, pull charging handle all the way to the rear, let go of charging handle, and see if a round chambers! Why would you have to wait until your next range visit to do this? I have two kids running around and a busy life. Plus, it's been too goddamned cold in the garage lately.
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Posted: 2/10/2015 11:22:57 AM EDT
[#42]
Colt's suggestion is locking the bolt back first on an empty magwell... Page 36-> ... of the manual http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIREARMS/colt_ar15.pdf
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Posted: 2/10/2015 12:01:10 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Reading comprehension??? He only uses 10 ROUND magazines. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is a common thing OP. Load your magazines with 28 or 29 rounds instead of 30. Reading comprehension??? He only uses 10 ROUND magazines. Same concept. Filling a mag to it's full capacity, no matter how many the mag holds, can cause the same issue. Load 8-9 rounds in a 10 round mag and things are gravy. |
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Posted: 2/10/2015 12:56:55 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is a common thing OP. Not THAT common. It doesn't happen on any of the 12 ARs I have or built recently, whether using Magpul Gen2 or Gen3, Lancer, or no-name steel or aluminum mags. It's most likely operator error. If your rifle won't function with the mags loaded to spec, it (or the magazine) has a problem that should be fixed. Downloading the mag to avoid the problem is a kludge. |
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Posted: 2/10/2015 1:08:55 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not THAT common. It doesn't happen on any of the 12 ARs I have or built recently, whether using Magpul Gen2 or Gen3, Lancer, or no-name steel or aluminum mags. It's most likely operator error. If your rifle won't function with the mags loaded to spec, it (or the magazine) has a problem that should be fixed. Downloading the mag to avoid the problem is a kludge. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is a common thing OP. Not THAT common. It doesn't happen on any of the 12 ARs I have or built recently, whether using Magpul Gen2 or Gen3, Lancer, or no-name steel or aluminum mags. It's most likely operator error. If your rifle won't function with the mags loaded to spec, it (or the magazine) has a problem that should be fixed. Downloading the mag to avoid the problem is a kludge. Every Pmag and a few aluminum mags I have is difficult to seat when fully loaded |
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Posted: 2/10/2015 1:22:41 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every Pmag and a few aluminum mags I have is difficult to seat when fully loaded There's a big difference between requiring some degree of additional force to seat a fully-loaded magazine on a closed bolt, and the rifle malfunctioning when fed a fully-loaded magazine. One is fairly normal, the other is not. I have some magazines that require additional force to lock when fully loaded and inserted on a closed bolt, but they will seat, lock and feed when the charging handle is pulled all the way to the rear and released. |
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Posted: 2/10/2015 1:22:49 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every Pmag and a few aluminum mags I have is difficult to seat when fully loaded Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This is a common thing OP. Not THAT common. It doesn't happen on any of the 12 ARs I have or built recently, whether using Magpul Gen2 or Gen3, Lancer, or no-name steel or aluminum mags. It's most likely operator error. If your rifle won't function with the mags loaded to spec, it (or the magazine) has a problem that should be fixed. Downloading the mag to avoid the problem is a kludge. Every Pmag and a few aluminum mags I have is difficult to seat when fully loaded Yeah but he has TWELVE AR's so he knows what he's talking about! |
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Posted: 2/10/2015 3:03:18 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah but he has TWELVE AR's so he knows what he's talking about! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This is a common thing OP. Not THAT common. It doesn't happen on any of the 12 ARs I have or built recently, whether using Magpul Gen2 or Gen3, Lancer, or no-name steel or aluminum mags. It's most likely operator error. If your rifle won't function with the mags loaded to spec, it (or the magazine) has a problem that should be fixed. Downloading the mag to avoid the problem is a kludge. Every Pmag and a few aluminum mags I have is difficult to seat when fully loaded Yeah but he has TWELVE AR's so he knows what he's talking about! I've never noticed my mags being difficult to seat...but that said, I do slam them in and often beat them with the base of my palm irregardless of capacity. Perhaps babying the mag insert is the issue? Slam that son of a bitch in like you mean it and it should seat just fine. |
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