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Posted: 4/11/2015 12:10:02 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CavScout8:
So much for using good trigger control and follow-through. Are you worried about that with an M249? That's the niche this will fit into (at least IMO). A poor man's SAW. |
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Posted: 4/11/2015 12:25:37 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RJeff21:
Are you worried about that with an M249? That's the niche this will fit into (at least IMO). A poor man's SAW. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RJeff21:
Originally Posted By CavScout8:
So much for using good trigger control and follow-through. Are you worried about that with an M249? That's the niche this will fit into (at least IMO). A poor man's SAW. An oppressed mans saw. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2015 2:46:45 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost:
Two very different types of shooting. If your worried about a gentle press and hearing the disco release while your inside a house your doing it wrong. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost:
Originally Posted By CavScout8:
So much for using good trigger control and follow-through. No door kickers will ever use anything like this. Unlike burst, there's a pause between shots with this. Also unlike burst, unless I missed something, you can tap a burst gun to get only one or two shots. With this, you fire and them have a shot that wants to fire. Also, this would be a mistake to use for home defense. It would be hard to win a self defense case with this trigger.Like using black talon ammo with a bumpfire stock. I'm not saying it's illegal or wrong, just good luck with your appearance to your jury of 'peers.' |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2015 2:51:00 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RJeff21:
Are you worried about that with an M249? That's the niche this will fit into (at least IMO). A poor man's SAW. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RJeff21:
Originally Posted By CavScout8:
So much for using good trigger control and follow-through. Are you worried about that with an M249? That's the niche this will fit into (at least IMO). A poor man's SAW. This is an AR15 tech forum, so I assumed it was an AR trigger pack. An AR isn't a SAW. A SAW can spit rounds because it is belt fed. I have time and rounds down range with 249's, and not anywhere near the same thing. Actually, accuracy (even practical/combat type) requires good trigger control. That's why people under stress miss so badly. Train as you fight? |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2015 2:51:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: CavScout8]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tohbii:
An oppressed mans saw. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tohbii:
Originally Posted By RJeff21:
Originally Posted By CavScout8:
So much for using good trigger control and follow-through. Are you worried about that with an M249? That's the niche this will fit into (at least IMO). A poor man's SAW. An oppressed mans saw. Oppressed AND poor. There are civilian legal semi auto belt fed rifles. We use them at my work. |
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Posted: 4/11/2015 4:11:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: WUPHF]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CavScout8:
This is an AR15 tech forum, so I assumed it was an AR trigger pack. An AR isn't a SAW. A SAW can spit rounds because it is belt fed. I have time and rounds down range with 249's, and not anywhere near the same thing. Actually, accuracy (even practical/combat type) requires good trigger control. That's why people under stress miss so badly. Train as you fight? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CavScout8:
Originally Posted By RJeff21:
Originally Posted By CavScout8:
So much for using good trigger control and follow-through. Are you worried about that with an M249? That's the niche this will fit into (at least IMO). A poor man's SAW. This is an AR15 tech forum, so I assumed it was an AR trigger pack. An AR isn't a SAW. A SAW can spit rounds because it is belt fed. I have time and rounds down range with 249's, and not anywhere near the same thing. Actually, accuracy (even practical/combat type) requires good trigger control. That's why people under stress miss so badly. Train as you fight? I have time and rounds down range with the M249 as well (admittedly, none on a two way range). I never claimed this is a SAW, just a poor man's SAW. Also, being a belt fed isn't a requirement for the "Squad Automatic Weapon" role as evidenced by the M27 IAR (which just so happens to be an AR pattern weapon). As I stated, IMO, this trigger pack's niche would be in an AR that's set up and utilized in a suppressive fire role, where a slow proper trigger squeeze with proper follow through and reset isnt absolutely necessary. It's really the only thing that makes sense to me. Same as with jaqufrost's BumpSAW. We can argue over how effective the trigger will work in that role or how practical it would actually be, but I was just sharing where I thought a trigger like this would shine, if it ever does at all. |
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Posted: 4/11/2015 4:48:13 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wangstang:
Cool concept....my prediction...If the second shot is fired by releasing the trigger from the first pull, this will die a quick death at the tech branch. Wes I think there are shotguns called release trigger shotguns, that are apparently the cats meow for skeet that do this... 
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Posted: 4/11/2015 8:01:41 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CavScout8: No door kickers will ever use anything like this. Unlike burst, there's a pause between shots with this. Also unlike burst, unless I missed something, you can tap a burst gun to get only one or two shots. With this, you fire and them have a shot that wants to fire. Also, this would be a mistake to use for home defense. It would be hard to win a self defense case with this trigger.Like using black talon ammo with a bumpfire stock. I'm not saying it's illegal or wrong, just good luck with your appearance to your jury of 'peers.' Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CavScout8: Originally Posted By jaqufrost: Originally Posted By CavScout8: So much for using good trigger control and follow-through. No door kickers will ever use anything like this. Unlike burst, there's a pause between shots with this. Also unlike burst, unless I missed something, you can tap a burst gun to get only one or two shots. With this, you fire and them have a shot that wants to fire. Also, this would be a mistake to use for home defense. It would be hard to win a self defense case with this trigger.Like using black talon ammo with a bumpfire stock. I'm not saying it's illegal or wrong, just good luck with your appearance to your jury of 'peers.' As far as self defense goes I would prefer a true machinegun. A good shoot is a good shoot, a mg or this trigger doesn't make it magically bad. |
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Posted: 4/11/2015 8:41:56 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fsjdw2:
I think there are shotguns called release trigger shotguns, that are apparently the cats meow for skeet that do this... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fsjdw2:
I think there are shotguns called release trigger shotguns, that are apparently the cats meow for skeet that do this... You, sir are correct.. Originally Posted By RJeff21:
Originally Posted By CavScout8:
Originally Posted By RJeff21:
Originally Posted By CavScout8:
So much for using good trigger control and follow-through. Are you worried about that with an M249? That's the niche this will fit into (at least IMO). A poor man's SAW. This is an AR15 tech forum, so I assumed it was an AR trigger pack. An AR isn't a SAW. A SAW can spit rounds because it is belt fed. I have time and rounds down range with 249's, and not anywhere near the same thing. Actually, accuracy (even practical/combat type) requires good trigger control. That's why people under stress miss so badly. Train as you fight? I have time and rounds down range with the M249 as well (admittedly, none on a two way range). I never claimed this is a SAW, just a poor man's SAW. Also, being a belt fed isn't a requirement for the "Squad Automatic Weapon" role as evidenced by the M27 IAR (which just so happens to be an AR pattern weapon). As I stated, IMO, this trigger pack's niche would be in an AR that's set up and utilized in a suppressive fire role, where a slow proper trigger squeeze with proper follow through and reset isnt absolutely necessary. It's really the only thing that makes sense to me. Same as with jaqufrost's BumpSAW. We can argue over how effective the trigger will work in that role or how practical it would actually be, but I was just sharing where I thought a trigger like this would shine, if it ever does at all. Who gives a shit about an operational setting? If someone gets a trigger like this it's because they damned well wanted it! |
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Posted: 4/11/2015 8:45:05 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost:
~snip~ As far as self defense goes I would prefer a true machinegun. A good shoot is a good shoot, a mg or this trigger doesn't make it magically bad. I prefer an M4. But totally agree with the rest.. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2015 8:26:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CavScout8:
No door kickers will ever use anything like this. Unlike burst, there's a pause between shots with this. Also unlike burst, unless I missed something, you can tap a burst gun to get only one or two shots. With this, you fire and them have a shot that wants to fire. Also, this would be a mistake to use for home defense. It would be hard to win a self defense case with this trigger.Like using black talon ammo with a bumpfire stock. I'm not saying it's illegal or wrong, just good luck with your appearance to your jury of 'peers.' Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CavScout8:
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
Originally Posted By CavScout8:
So much for using good trigger control and follow-through. No door kickers will ever use anything like this. Unlike burst, there's a pause between shots with this. Also unlike burst, unless I missed something, you can tap a burst gun to get only one or two shots. With this, you fire and them have a shot that wants to fire. Also, this would be a mistake to use for home defense. It would be hard to win a self defense case with this trigger.Like using black talon ammo with a bumpfire stock. I'm not saying it's illegal or wrong, just good luck with your appearance to your jury of 'peers.' I think ur over thinking it a smig, if ur in a true self defense situation i dont think they are gonna question why u shot 8 times instead of 7. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2015 9:05:10 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xtreme762:
Who gives a shit about an operational setting? If someone gets a trigger like this it's because they damned well wanted it! 
I said I was in on this from the start. |
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Posted: 4/15/2015 7:04:45 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 4/15/2015 10:31:00 PM EDT
[#14]
They will just change the definition and we will continue to take it up the angus like we have done the last century.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/26/2015 3:29:59 PM EDT
[#15]
bump for approvage
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Posted: 4/26/2015 9:02:22 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JSmithXYY:
bump for approvage This is taking too long. |
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Posted: 4/26/2015 10:17:02 PM EDT
[#17]
It's the BATFE, fellas. Sit back, and relax for a couple more years. MAYBE we'll see something before the turn of the decade!
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OH, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2015 1:35:20 PM EDT
[#18]
They just posted this note in one of their FB posts about a new rifle:
"An optional upgrade available late July is the Binary Firing System for an additional $330" |
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Posted: 5/6/2015 1:44:17 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Muad: They just posted this note in one of their FB posts about a new rifle: "An optional upgrade available late July is the Binary Firing System for an additional $330" Sounds like it's getting closer! |
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Posted: 5/6/2015 2:53:33 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost:
Sounds like it's getting closer! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost:
Originally Posted By Muad:
They just posted this note in one of their FB posts about a new rifle: "An optional upgrade available late July is the Binary Firing System for an additional $330" Sounds like it's getting closer! Given the track record of firearm manufacturers in general, this means sometime between July and never. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2015 3:37:13 PM EDT
[#21]
this setup has been around for a long time in the competitive shotgun world. Known as a "release trigger". it was intended to solve the flinching problems some shooters develop. the over and under guns can be setup as release-release, pull-release, or release-pull however the shooter desires. Many claim the release is superior over the standard pull trigger.
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Posted: 5/6/2015 7:12:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Tohbii]
[#22]
Im really wanting this trigger right about now.
Wish there was more details. i understand the ATF does whatever they want and takes as long as they want. |
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Posted: 5/6/2015 7:13:20 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By williewvr:
Given the track record of firearm manufacturers in general, this means sometime between July and never. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By williewvr:
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
Originally Posted By Muad:
They just posted this note in one of their FB posts about a new rifle: "An optional upgrade available late July is the Binary Firing System for an additional $330" Sounds like it's getting closer! Given the track record of firearm manufacturers in general, this means sometime between July and never. Give them a chance to make some fucking gun parts..... If you were in a position to come out with a new product that required ATF's unreliable blessing, would you invest tens of thousands of dollars on it if it wasn't a sure thing? |
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Posted: 5/6/2015 7:16:46 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Give them a chance to make some fucking gun parts..... If you were in a position to come out with a new product that required ATF's unreliable blessing, would you invest tens of thousands of dollars on it if it wasn't a sure thing? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Originally Posted By williewvr:
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
Originally Posted By Muad:
They just posted this note in one of their FB posts about a new rifle: "An optional upgrade available late July is the Binary Firing System for an additional $330" Sounds like it's getting closer! Given the track record of firearm manufacturers in general, this means sometime between July and never. Give them a chance to make some fucking gun parts..... If you were in a position to come out with a new product that required ATF's unreliable blessing, would you invest tens of thousands of dollars on it if it wasn't a sure thing? Just to make you angry, im going to say yes. |
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Posted: 5/6/2015 7:26:47 PM EDT
[#25]
I'm still wondering how hard it would be to make an AK version.
I'm also hoping that FB post doesn't mean that the first batch of these trigger are going to be going solely to their rifles. That would be a mistake IMO. |
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ND, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2015 8:41:47 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trenchgun:
this setup has been around for a long time in the competitive shotgun world. Known as a "release trigger". it was intended to solve the flinching problems some shooters develop. the over and under guns can be setup as release-release, pull-release, or release-pull however the shooter desires. Many claim the release is superior over the standard pull trigger. Could they maybe justify that but not this trigger since it has two barrels and firing only one shot per barrel per pull? Just curious what you guys think. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/7/2015 10:39:20 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yote7:
Could they maybe justify that but not this trigger since it has two barrels and firing only one shot per barrel per pull? Just curious what you guys think. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yote7:
Originally Posted By trenchgun:
this setup has been around for a long time in the competitive shotgun world. Known as a "release trigger". it was intended to solve the flinching problems some shooters develop. the over and under guns can be setup as release-release, pull-release, or release-pull however the shooter desires. Many claim the release is superior over the standard pull trigger. Could they maybe justify that but not this trigger since it has two barrels and firing only one shot per barrel per pull? Just curious what you guys think. probably not since an F trooper once testified in court that he would charge someone w/ MG possession if one function of the trigger discharged both barrels 
It might have been the same gun who said a "void of air" is a machine gun too I dunno. |
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Posted: 5/7/2015 10:49:34 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JSmithXYY: probably not since an F trooper once testified in court that he would charge someone w/ MG possession if one function of the trigger discharged both barrels It might have been the same gun who said a "void of air" is a machine gun too I dunno. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JSmithXYY: Originally Posted By Yote7: Originally Posted By trenchgun: this setup has been around for a long time in the competitive shotgun world. Known as a "release trigger". it was intended to solve the flinching problems some shooters develop. the over and under guns can be setup as release-release, pull-release, or release-pull however the shooter desires. Many claim the release is superior over the standard pull trigger. Could they maybe justify that but not this trigger since it has two barrels and firing only one shot per barrel per pull? Just curious what you guys think. probably not since an F trooper once testified in court that he would charge someone w/ MG possession if one function of the trigger discharged both barrels It might have been the same gun who said a "void of air" is a machine gun too I dunno. Ok, I need a link to this "void of air" machine gun. LOL. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/7/2015 11:49:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: JSmithXYY]
[#29]
It had to do w/ drilling a HK receiver for an auto sear. I have heard about it here but i don't have a link. The jist of it is that the hole was the machine gun. I think the notion was that the hole in the receiver was a second machine gun in addition to the registered hk auto sear or someitng...
In the letter, the ftrooper actually said "void of air is the machine gun" lol That along w/ the shoe string machine gun are the all time greats, well along w/ the shouldering the sig brace ting |
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Posted: 5/7/2015 12:30:18 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wagonwheel1:
Training and muscle memory what it is, this sounds dangerous as all h*ll. Releasing a trigger to fire off a round ? What could go wrong ? If I want a fast trigger I'll get an S3G or similar. Yep |
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Posted: 5/7/2015 12:59:32 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 9divdoc:
Yep Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 9divdoc:
Originally Posted By wagonwheel1:
Training and muscle memory what it is, this sounds dangerous as all h*ll. Releasing a trigger to fire off a round ? What could go wrong ? If I want a fast trigger I'll get an S3G or similar. Yep "I support the second amendment.........unless the trigger of the gun fires a round on release. Then itz scary and it should be totally not allowed" Some people on this website are like non jewish german citizens. |
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Posted: 5/7/2015 1:02:56 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tohbii: "I support the second amendment.........unless the trigger of the gun fires a round on release. Then itz scary and it should be totally not allowed" Some people on this website are like non jewish german citizens. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tohbii: Originally Posted By 9divdoc: Originally Posted By wagonwheel1: Training and muscle memory what it is, this sounds dangerous as all h*ll. Releasing a trigger to fire off a round ? What could go wrong ? If I want a fast trigger I'll get an S3G or similar. Yep "I support the second amendment.........unless the trigger of the gun fires a round on release. Then itz scary and it should be totally not allowed" Some people on this website are like non jewish german citizens. |
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Posted: 5/7/2015 3:48:09 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tohbii:
Just to make you angry, im going to say yes. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tohbii:
Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Originally Posted By williewvr:
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
Originally Posted By Muad:
They just posted this note in one of their FB posts about a new rifle: "An optional upgrade available late July is the Binary Firing System for an additional $330" Sounds like it's getting closer! Given the track record of firearm manufacturers in general, this means sometime between July and never. Give them a chance to make some fucking gun parts..... If you were in a position to come out with a new product that required ATF's unreliable blessing, would you invest tens of thousands of dollars on it if it wasn't a sure thing? Just to make you angry, im going to say yes. Hell hath no fury like a grown man denied a toy.. |
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Posted: 5/7/2015 11:17:14 PM EDT
[#34]
I dig seeing new stuff get out here. Mopar the better
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OH, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2015 10:50:41 AM EDT
[#35]
As of May 10th (via a FB post):
"Target is an msrp of $330. Atf made us change one thing. We've made that change, and are getting a second review. It should not be a federally regulated item.". They seem pretty hopeful that the ATF will respond quickly to the change. I'm hoping this does get approved, and released soon. I shot the 3MR when it was first released, and thought it was cool, but expensive. This is much more affordable. I'm just curious as to how awkward it will be firing it for the first time. |
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Posted: 5/12/2015 1:59:04 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Muad:
As of May 10th (via a FB post): "Target is an msrp of $330. Atf made us change one thing. We've made that change, and are getting a second review. It should not be a federally regulated item.". They seem pretty hopeful that the ATF will respond quickly to the change. I'm hoping this does get approved, and released soon. I shot the 3MR when it was first released, and thought it was cool, but expensive. This is much more affordable. I'm just curious as to how awkward it will be firing it for the first time. What was the "one change?" Does it still use the safety selector to select fire on pull or fire on pull & release? Because that's what is attractive to me. Would be a nice feature if it is selectable like it was originally. THAT would be worth $300ish for me. Otherwise, it's not. |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 6:21:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Mr_Smiley]
[#37]
Bump.
Any updates? |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 2:51:22 PM EDT
[#38]
also interested
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Posted: 5/28/2015 12:59:47 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mr_Smiley:
Bump. Any updates? Late June/Early July is the expected date, per the manufacturer. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 1:39:58 AM EDT
[#40]
Hopefully this will make it to the market.
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OH, USA
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Posted: 5/28/2015 9:08:19 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 50cal: Hopefully this will make it to the market. They are pretty confident it will. They've already started listing it as an option on their website ($330). |
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Posted: 6/6/2015 3:19:25 PM EDT
[#42]
Im starting to lose hope
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/6/2015 5:36:37 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tohbii:
Im starting to lose hope Well if it comes out great... If not I won't lose any sleep. |
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Posted: 6/6/2015 5:41:01 PM EDT
[#44]
Where did you guys see it on the website? I looked, I must be blind.
I hope it makes it out, I want one for my xm177 cloneish. |
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Posted: 6/21/2015 1:13:23 AM EDT
[#45]
Ttt
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Posted: 6/21/2015 11:56:51 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4Tank: Well if it comes out great... If not I won't lose any sleep. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4Tank: Originally Posted By Tohbii: Im starting to lose hope Well if it comes out great... If not I won't lose any sleep. Well I'll probably lose a ton... |
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Posted: 6/22/2015 9:25:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Muad]
[#47]
What's interesting is that the BFS is not listed on their website any longer...
It was listed as an option with all of their rifles, now it's gone... I hope that doesn't mean the ATF shut them down on the BFS |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/22/2015 9:31:07 AM EDT
[#48]
got my eye on this!
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/22/2015 9:51:26 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Muad:
What's interesting is that the BFS is not listed on their website any longer... It was listed as an option with all of their rifles, not it's gone... I hope that doesn't mean the ATF shut them down on the BFS
That sucks. It would be nice if they told use what the reason was. |
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Posted: 6/22/2015 6:03:40 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4Tank:
That sucks. It would be nice if they told use what the reason was. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M4Tank:
Originally Posted By Muad:
What's interesting is that the BFS is not listed on their website any longer... It was listed as an option with all of their rifles, not it's gone... I hope that doesn't mean the ATF shut them down on the BFS
That sucks. It would be nice if they told use what the reason was. Obama said so would be my first guess. |
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