all over the paper at the range.......what gives? - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - all over the paper at the range.......what gives? (Page 2 of 3)

Posted: 11/23/2014 12:00:40 AM EDT

[#1]

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Service rifle guys who all use at least 69 gr and mostly well into the 70gr range bullets for the full length 600yd course generally use a 52 or 53 gr bullet on the 100yd reduced course even with slow fast twist guns set up for the heavy/long bullets .

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FIFY

Posted: 11/23/2014 11:55:02 AM EDT

[#2]

I know yesterday with my SPR I was shooting some plinking pulled 62gr SS109s and. Getting about 3-4 MOA , switched to ae223 and was getting around 1.5 so ammo could be a factor. I run a odinworks 18inch barrel 1:8 416r SS

Posted: 11/23/2014 12:15:56 PM EDT

[#3]

I'm going to go with a trigger pull problem

Posted: 11/23/2014 1:06:50 PM EDT

[#4]

55gr stuff is useless to me. i need 500m and with wind they will fly all over. if the barrel likes 55gr, the barrel will be sold. fact.

Posted: 11/23/2014 1:46:19 PM EDT

[#5]

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Heavy bullets (75/77) shoot best at longer ranges. That's what they are designed for, 200 yards minimum distance. It takes some distance before they straighten out and fly right. It doesn't make sense but it works.

Virtually every rifle I own shoots 52/53 grain match bullets better at 100 yards than any other weight. It doesn't matter if it has a 1/7, 1/8 or 1/9, these light match bullets hammer at short ranges. Again, that's what light weight match bullets are designed for, 100 to 200 yard bench rest style shooting. . .
....

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+1
Get some 52gr SIERRA match if you want to shoot tiny 100yrd groups

Posted: 11/23/2014 1:50:57 PM EDT

[#6]

im gonna have to put up a 300-500m target and see what it does out there. I hear ya on 100m only groups.

Posted: 11/23/2014 1:53:15 PM EDT

[#7]

I would carefully load up some 52's and confirm the barrel can shoot.

then grab the 77gr and move out to longer range

Posted: 11/23/2014 1:56:55 PM EDT

[#8]

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I would carefully load up some 52's and confirm the barrel can shoot.

then grab the 77gr and move out to longer range

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i can have that done.

Posted: 11/24/2014 2:43:31 PM EDT

[#9]

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+1
Get some 52gr SIERRA match if you want to shoot tiny 100yrd groups

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/490/490499.jpg

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Heavy bullets (75/77) shoot best at longer ranges. That's what they are designed for, 200 yards minimum distance. It takes some distance before they straighten out and fly right. It doesn't make sense but it works.

Virtually every rifle I own shoots 52/53 grain match bullets better at 100 yards than any other weight. It doesn't matter if it has a 1/7, 1/8 or 1/9, these light match bullets hammer at short ranges. Again, that's what light weight match bullets are designed for, 100 to 200 yard bench rest style shooting. . .
....

+1
Get some 52gr SIERRA match if you want to shoot tiny 100yrd groups

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/490/490499.jpg

This. And also try 77 gr. fgmm over the BH 262 load, at distance. 262 is made for killing bad guys far away, not grouping at the range. It's not the pinnacle of ar accuracy, it's just the pinnacle of what the military has available.

Posted: 11/24/2014 6:26:52 PM EDT

[#10]

Yeah, or black hills blue or red. Top notch. Hornady loads too.

I wouldn't give up on the barrel until you verify groups at longer range with the heavier. And really, even if it does shoot lighter stuff well at 100 yards, that's not necessarily a detriment. The advice with that is to rule out if it is scope or mount or some other gear related problem. At this point, it still seems you're not quite certain about that.

I would like to weigh in one more opinion. Shooting SUB moa groups is not something that is all that common, IMHO. You stated when somebody posted a .5 group that this is what you should be getting. My question is have you experienced that in any kind of AR yet? I'm not a super terrific shot and maybe that's part of my input here, but I've gotten some decent groups with my recce. A few sub MOA. But .5 inch groups are..... well...... they're just really really good. I'm always actually a little skeptical when someone is posting this and saying it's kind of a common thing. I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm just saying usually it is on the extreme end of good shooting.

You might be setting the bar kind of high for your gun, yourself, etc etc. But having said that, you may have some experience with getting groups this good already. And furthermore it does appear like there might be room for improvement. It is a fun endeavor to embark on.

Posted: 11/24/2014 7:58:29 PM EDT

[#11]

Thanks for the reply. Well said. this is the first one i bought that had a sub moa accuracy guarantee and its 1.5" all day. I guess thats why. I want to get out thursday and shoot one more time since i locktited the ocular ring. If its still crappy im gonna just rage quit and save up for a kreiger 18" mk12 style cut rifling barrel. Least they are known for awesome accuracy. I want sub moa all day. Doing my part.

Posted: 11/24/2014 8:13:48 PM EDT

[#12]

1.5 MOA is nothing to sneeze at.

A lot of guys the get sub moa regularly, handload a tailored load for that particular gun. Because one thing I've learned and others will agree, every barrel is prejudiced. You might just have to figure out what that barrel likes.

Chasing small groups is a process. Might not happen overnight. Try to enjoy the journey.

But I know what it's like to be frustrated about stuff. Also, thank you for serving.

Posted: 11/24/2014 8:58:51 PM EDT

[#13]

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For me, its always a loose scope.

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That's what those groups look like to me, either loose scope or a drifting reticle.

Posted: 11/25/2014 1:59:38 AM EDT

[#14]

I have MOA all day guns, but I'm a MOA every once in a while shooter. I've shot a .5 group and quite a few .75 groups. 1.25 I can do all day.

Try some more loads. Shoot with somebody that can walk the walk. Have them shoot your rifle.

I just went out last weekend and had AE M193 shoot 1.5, when my handloads were shooting 2.5. It should not even be possible, but shooting is a black art. Keep shooting that gun. Load all the combos you can come up with and see what it/you like.

Posted: 11/27/2014 12:25:53 PM EDT

[#15]

Well i went to the range and my slr rifleworks gas block came loose. I went to redo it and it seems the thing is and has been resting on the SLR rail! Not a ff rail if that happens! You cant really tell until u pull the rail and see the bare aluminum and the shiny screw on the GB wearing against eachother.

Back to square one. Looks like its mil spec parts only for me again. i ate too much fanboy cake :/. i didnt even get to check out if the lock tited eyering on the leupold helped me or not.

Posted: 11/27/2014 5:41:15 PM EDT

[#16]

Well yeah, that'll do it. At least it's an easy fix for the most part if not an irritating one.

Posted: 11/28/2014 1:34:57 AM EDT

[#17]

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Well i went to the range and my slr rifleworks gas block came loose. I went to redo it and it seems the thing is and has been resting on the SLR rail! Not a ff rail if that happens! You cant really tell until u pull the rail and see the bare aluminum and the shiny screw on the GB wearing against eachother.

Back to square one. Looks like its mil spec parts only for me again. i ate too much fanboy cake :/. i didnt even get to check out if the lock tited eyering on the leupold helped me or not.

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I'd love to help you out HB. All it takes is an email or phone call. I'll be happy to take care of this you.

Posted: 11/28/2014 4:50:40 PM EDT

[#18]

will do sir. i really really love the rail and the gas block functioned well with the adjustability. lets hope we can get this worked out.

Posted: 11/29/2014 8:30:39 PM EDT

[#19]

My rainier match barrel does 1 moa pretty easily with my hand loads and using bags front and back.... when I use a bipod and rear bag I cant seem to do as good. I say 1.5 moa with a bipod is pretty good.
Handloads are 50gr. v-max, 55 gr. dogtown, and 75 gr a-max.... all of them are consistent groupers, but only on bags. I need to practice my technique I guess but at least I know my rifle is working right.

Posted: 11/29/2014 8:53:04 PM EDT

[#20]

Realistically 1.5 moa all the time is something I'd love to be able to do. I can't shoot moa with bolt guns most of the time. Maybe 1 in 30 trys. With my best shooting ar much much less often.

Posted: 11/29/2014 9:07:08 PM EDT

[#21]

As several others have stated, changing up the ammo is how i would start. I have a 16" noveske and it took me several different attempts at finding the right ammo. 75gr black hills works well for me. I also noticed that on some other rounds, i would shoot about 1.5-2" groups at 100 and about .7" at 200. Some times it just takes a bit more distance to stabilize.

If none of that works, then i would check the tightness on the barrel.

Posted: 11/29/2014 9:20:49 PM EDT

[#22]

my eyes are working properly, and I don't shake at all, so sub MOA on a front backpack and a rear bag with proper form is doable.

will update when get this rail and gb thing fixed and I throw the 69gr rem otm, 77bh and 55gr fiocci down the pipe.

Posted: 12/6/2014 9:36:30 PM EDT

[#23]

OPDATE: ok i got the older Gen II SLR gb in tonite and installed. It's blue loktited as well. The shelf is lower and it clears the rail with plenty of room. That issue is solved. I also checked the scope level in just the mount via elev cap and the GG&G ring top area. My scope was canted slightly.....enough to matter. I levelled the mount and then levelled the scope to my mount. I levelled my rail and upper, threw on the mount and scope and now it is level to my upper and rail. So that's a second issue resolved. I think my head is crooked lol.

Tomorrow im hoping to get to the range and throw the 69 & 77gr @ 100 on paper and get some better groups. Lets hope for 1" or better. tonite i guess I will practice my form and dry fire until im sore.

Posted: 12/6/2014 9:49:06 PM EDT

[#24]

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It seems to me like you keep trying everything EXCEPT what should be the first step. Lock it into a bench and shoot it to take human error out of the equation. As others have said, it doesn't look like the scope, the mount, the barrel, the ammo or anything. It looks like a classic case of the gun shooting better than you. I'm not trying to knock your shooting, every one of my guns shoots better than me. But it's a reality. Nearly every accuracy issue people have is them not the gun and the way to eliminate that issue first is to bench shoot it with the gun locked down. If you do this and it still shoots groups like this, only THEN should you move on to other diagnoses. You have the cart before the horse. When troubleshooting, eliminate variables, then isolate potential issues. In this case, eliminate the biggest variable of all, the shooter, first.

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This. I'm usually capable of MOA + or - on the bench at the range. Some days it's 2-3 MOA. No way would I blame the gun after one or two range trips. Tighten everything down, and try again. As others have said, bring a wide variety if ammo next time.

Posted: 12/6/2014 10:35:48 PM EDT

[#25]

I would like to talk group size. Don't believe all you hear.

I belong to a good size gun club and in the club house most every guy has a story about some rifle or pet load that "shoots into a inch all day long"

Most of these same guys are talking the same talk when they pull up to the range.

I love these guys but about 80% of them are just so full of shit when it comes to shooting.. When the targets are collected they have 1" groups except for the two where they got caught by the wind or a group looks like 1" except for the couple that they "might" have pulled but when you lay a ruler on it even if you don't count the flyer it is more like 1 7/8 .

If you are really hitting most of your groups at 1 1/2 that is pretty darn good .

My apologies to the guys who really have the guns , eyesight and dialed in loads that they are really shooting sub moa groups but anybody who has spent much time on any target range knows they are BS rich enviroments .

I do have a couple of guys that I have learned to trust , when they start talking loads or guns I pay attention .The general club population ,not so much

Thanks to the guy who corrected my fast twist/slow twist fopa

Posted: 12/7/2014 7:21:24 PM EDT

[#26]

upload

20mb image hosting

Bipod and a bag....starting off.....not bad, some vertical stringing. horizontal strings seem bettert too. I got better as I shot. Nice 5rnd group too. I did some more...leftis 69grn rem otm. Middle single shot is bh 77gr otm. Right is fiocci 77grn otm .223. I was tight on the bag with these and really trying hard. It will shoot. The rest of the error looks like me. i can deal with these for a cold ass day :)

Posted: 12/7/2014 7:23:35 PM EDT

[#27]

Looks like fixing that gas block issue fixed the whole thing. Congratulations.

Posted: 12/7/2014 7:27:37 PM EDT

[#28]

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Looks like fixing that gas block issue fixed the whole thing. Congratulations.

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Well that solved the crazy groups after i installed it and it touched....looks like the canted scope was causing my horizontal strings/loose groupings and now that its centered it got better. I gotta dry fire a ton more tho. I feel myself getting loose behind that trigger. my breathing is better and position as well.

Again....it was equipment not properly installed. So now we can more forward :). Thx for all the replies. I was wrong!

Posted: 12/7/2014 7:43:35 PM EDT

[#29]

Posted: 12/8/2014 10:33:31 AM EDT

[#30]

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Well that solved the crazy groups after i installed it and it touched....looks like the canted scope was causing my horizontal strings/loose groupings and now that its centered it got better. I gotta dry fire a ton more tho. I feel myself getting loose behind that trigger. my breathing is better and position as well.

Again....it was equipment not properly installed. So now we can more forward :). Thx for all the replies. I was wrong!

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Looks like fixing that gas block issue fixed the whole thing. Congratulations.

Well that solved the crazy groups after i installed it and it touched....looks like the canted scope was causing my horizontal strings/loose groupings and now that its centered it got better. I gotta dry fire a ton more tho. I feel myself getting loose behind that trigger. my breathing is better and position as well.

Again....it was equipment not properly installed. So now we can more forward :). Thx for all the replies. I was wrong!

Good news!
I really would consider sending that trigger off to geissele also, I have two SD-E triggers and there is zero creep in the stages. It breaks cleanly everytime... It might be in spec, but it's worth checking into

Also, I have 2 of the Rainer select barrels. My best groups are with 55 grain hornady hand loads...

Posted: 12/8/2014 1:34:07 PM EDT

[#31]

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OPDATE: ok i got the older Gen II SLR gb in tonite and installed. It's blue loktited as well. The shelf is lower and it clears the rail with plenty of room. That issue is solved. I also checked the scope level in just the mount via elev cap and the GG&G ring top area. My scope was canted slightly.....enough to matter. I levelled the mount and then levelled the scope to my mount. I levelled my rail and upper, threw on the mount and scope and now it is level to my upper and rail. So that's a second issue resolved. I think my head is crooked lol.

Tomorrow im hoping to get to the range and throw the 69 & 77gr @ 100 on paper and get some better groups. Lets hope for 1" or better. tonite i guess I will practice my form and dry fire until im sore.

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Blue Loctite is useless on a gas block. As soon as it heats up (and it will), the Loctite will melt. You need rocksett if you're using it on a gas block.

Posted: 12/8/2014 3:07:50 PM EDT

[#32]

I also have an SAA and as previously posted brakes clean and crisply. I'd send the trigger back to Geissele I never fired an SSA that sounds like yours. I also have 6 SS-E triggers installed that brake much lighter than the 2nd stage of the SSA. You might consider the SSA-E if you want another trigger. IIRC the 2nd stage brakes at 1.2 pounds. The SSA-E can be had for $194 with fro shipping from Trading Pawn Palace.

Posted: 12/8/2014 5:00:11 PM EDT

[#33]

yeah i dont have rocksett...i gotta order a thing of it for my suppressor mount anyways. good idea.

the SS-A has a definite creep like 1/32 and then if i pull more it breaks. i guess i can send that back. it prolly isnt helping. if it's supposed to be like a glass rod breaking, it isnt.

Posted: 12/8/2014 5:26:46 PM EDT

[#34]

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Switch ammo. In my numerous years of experience with M16s, ARs, and hand loading, I have found that some AR barrels are really fussy about the loads put through them. I would suggest you work down in bullet weights and see how they behave in your barrel. As mentioned above, you need to assure your shooting skills are well honed. Most rifles shoot way better than we do!! Find a really experienced shooter to coach you a bit. Lots of factors play into consistently shooting sub MOA. Best of luck.

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This... I shoot that barrel, just in the 18" variety but everything else is the same. I get about .75moa with mine using 69gr SMKs and Varget. The 77 will stablize, but you are at the upper limits of the ability of the 1:8 and really into the 1:7 territory. Come down to the 69 or the 62 and I bet you'll see marked improvement.

Also, take yourself out of the equation. Put it in a rest and see what the rifle will do without you. This will tell you if it's you or not, but my money is still on your projos being too heavy to ge the most from the barrel.

Posted: 12/8/2014 5:58:12 PM EDT

[#35]

the group on the left is 69gr. it might be a little tighter but im not going to go lighter just to shoot more accurately because i NEED heavier booolits to get to 500m better. i would rather swap barrels to a 1/7 to shoot a 77gr better rather than shoot 62/69gr bullets. im not a 100m only shooter. if I was I'd be ok with going down to a 55grn if need be.

Posted: 12/8/2014 6:45:15 PM EDT

[#36]

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the group on the left is 69gr. it might be a little tighter but im not going to go lighter just to shoot more accurately because i NEED heavier booolits to get to 500m better. i would rather swap barrels to a 1/7 to shoot a 77gr better rather than shoot 62/69gr bullets. im not a 100m only shooter. if I was I'd be ok with going down to a 55grn if need be.

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Right, but as others have mentioned, you might not see the dividends of the 77's until you shoot further than 100. The lighter bullets might give you an indication at 100 how good YOU can actually do. If you can shoot 1" groups and under with some 52's or whatever, than you know your gear is good, and your technique is good an whatever load it is is good at that range. Yes, the lighter bullets won't do as well the further you go. But do you really think the 69's are going to be that much worse at 500 than 77's? I don't really know to be honest. Maybe they are. But I'm skeptical about that.

And still, I'm repeating myself because I think it bears repeating. Despite the fact that everyone oogles over the sierra bullets, I prefer the hornady bullets. Or at least my rifles seem to. Which are the 68's and 75's. And 52's. You may think about trying them. The 77's just get all the hoopla because the military uses a 77grain in the MK262. And everyone knows that milsepc is always better. (a little sarcasm).

Yeah, being cold doesn't help. Shiver shiver. LOL.

Glad you made progress though. I bet that was exciting.

Posted: 12/8/2014 6:49:08 PM EDT

[#37]

I don;t know anything about the Rainer Arms medcon barrel. Is it a match quality barrel like the Krieger or Douglas, or a chrome lined barrel? If it's a chrome lined barrel the group really is not that bad. You are definitely doing something because the shot dispersion is not round, but overall it is not a terrible group.

Posted: 12/8/2014 7:00:48 PM EDT

[#38]

yes i gotcha on the 100m vs overall. and im def still doing some movement, prolly the trigger hitch and me not taking the recoil properly/maybe a flinch. i agree its me opening up the groups. basically ur saying find what it likes to verift it CAN shoot sub moa @ 100m. then try big stuff farther out. i am tracking.....also....i work at a gun shop and the 69gr stuff is rare...but we have 77gr all day so id wanna use something i can get.

the barrel is button rifled, NOT cut. if this was a cut barrel i'd be sub MOA no problems even with my bad shooting. its not CL. its polygonal rifled as well. like I said once it's all figured out i want sub moa normal groups as long as I'm good. its guaranteed SUB MOA without me in the equation. id like to get it to sub moa WITH me in the equation lol. that depends on me tho.

EDIT: i have the trigger out, and I emailed Geissele about the creep issue. I checked it again before I pulled it and it creeped both times. I hope this is abnormal. My luck gets me defective parts a lot :/

Posted: 12/9/2014 10:21:11 AM EDT

[#39]

Thank you for contacting us. Our SSA actually was designed to have a little bit of flex in the second stage before it breaks. It is designed as a combat trigger. This intentionally built in flex, allows for a little addition safety once the adrenalin is pumping and fine motor skills start to degrade. I think the trigger you are really wanting is the SSA-E as it is a precision trigger with a crisper break than the SSA.

email response back from geissele.........

So i guess i gotta spend another $230 for the non creep version. Awesome. Im starting to hate this. Nobody ever wants a creepy trigger on purpose, and creep is not in the description of the trigger.. I had no idea.

Posted: 12/9/2014 10:39:30 AM EDT

[#40]

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Thank you for contacting us. Our SSA actually was designed to have a little bit of flex in the second stage before it breaks. It is designed as a combat trigger. This intentionally built in flex, allows for a little addition safety once the adrenalin is pumping and fine motor skills start to degrade. I think the trigger you are really wanting is the SSA-E as it is a precision trigger with a crisper break than the SSA.

email response back from geissele.........

So i guess i gotta spend another $230 for the non creep version. Awesome. Im starting to hate this. Nobody ever wants a creepy trigger on purpose, and creep is not in the description of the trigger.. I had no idea.

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Not to poke the bear but they even have a video that outlines exactly what he said. The SSA is designed for reduced motor skills to prevent an accidental discharge "breaks like a carrot" if you want it to "break like an icicle" get the SSA-E. I have never fired the SSA-E but I do have the SSA and the description couldn't be more spot on.

Here is a link where he reviews the triggers and the intended purposes worth a look maybe even the sea-e sin't the right trigger, be sure before dropping that kind of dough again because yes that does suck : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypb5HXdDJhc

ETA: My SSA has zero creep so you may want to send it back and cross your fingers its defective, maybe they would apply it and let you exchange for the difference

Posted: 12/9/2014 11:32:21 AM EDT

[#41]

this aint a carrot. this is a 1st stage pull..............hits second stage......apply more pressure....slips a bit, stops....keep applying pressure....BANG. feels like a 1911 series 80 trigger with that hitch.

dont worry im already pissed that they made this trigger like this. id rather have a drop in adjustable unit at this point. put it at 3lbs with a glass rod break and be done. if you are in combat and you are pulling the trigger you better damn well have a target, not just finger fuckin the trigger. gross motor movements should be OUT of the trigger well if u aint firing. im salty. first impressions mean a lot.

Posted: 12/9/2014 12:47:04 PM EDT

[#42]

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this aint a carrot. this is a 1st stage pull..............hits second stage......apply more pressure....slips a bit, stops....keep applying pressure....BANG. feels like a 1911 series 80 trigger with that hitch.

dont worry im already pissed that they made this trigger like this. id rather have a drop in adjustable unit at this point. put it at 3lbs with a glass rod break and be done. if you are in combat and you are pulling the trigger you better damn well have a target, not just finger fuckin the trigger. gross motor movements should be OUT of the trigger well if u aint firing. im salty. first impressions mean a lot.

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I hear ya, does sound like you may have a bad trigger though. That would be lucky, because it might work to your advantage where you can return and apply towards a different model that will be more what you are looking for.

Posted: 12/9/2014 6:35:06 PM EDT

[#43]

I can't tell if you have a trigger problem or if your just being overly anal about it.

I saw your pics of you serving and it seemed like you handled some different weapons. Were they really that much better? Well, I would imagine you'd know if the trigger is wonky or not. I've felt some pretty weird triggers on AR's over my time though. But mostly a standard trigger. So many of them feel so different. Like the extra step you talked about. I was testing one of my friends on an Anderson Lower and I'm not sure what LPK he had on it, but it was like you could feel several spots of it hanging up before it actually broke. Like 3 or 4. I guess you'd call that gritty. It was a pretty new lower though and maybe some shooting might smooth it out. Which might be what I'm thinking with yours.

Who knows.

Get your butt down on the ground and bag up.

You might move a little less. And get a little dirty. Although I don't really like getting dirty anymore. Take a blanket or some carpet. But nothing beats prone. Especially on concrete. I never shoot as good at a bench as I do prone. FWIW. Although my range has some creeky benches. I would imagine if you're shooting off of concrete benches, that would help. But I feel I get more control over the gun when I'm prone. Less fine movements.

Having said that, I know that some guys that get itty bitty groups can do it from the bench. But sometimes it's with all this gizmo sleds and what not.

I also think you MIGHT be making some kind of big assumptions about another barrel being that much better. Just a thought. Obviously you are determined to get small groups so...... You'll get there. I'm not sure one can really truly get super duper small groups consistently without reloading though. Just another thing to repeat to you.

I like how another guy put it. Shooting super small groups consistently is much harder than most guys make out. It is the nature of people to exaggerate. Even if it's just a little. Some people are more scientific and honest than others.

Posted: 12/9/2014 7:39:34 PM EDT

[#44]

Sell the SSA for $190 and pay to ship it to the buyer. Buy a SSA-E for $230. Net: an extra $40 or so out of pocket. I can almost guarantee someone on the EE will buy an SSA for about that if you mail it to them....

Posted: 12/9/2014 7:55:53 PM EDT

[#45]

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Sell the SSA for $190 and pay to ship it to the buyer. Buy a SSA-E for $230. Net: an extra $40 or so out of pocket. I can almost guarantee someone on the EE will buy an SSA for about that if you mail it to them....

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This..I have multiple SSA's, a High Speed DMR, and a SSA-E, the latter two, or any other one of the High Speed triggers, is what you may want instead of the SSA. I hate that you had a bad first impression of Geissele triggers but, they are definitely one of the better ones on the market for the AR platform.

Posted: 12/9/2014 9:11:30 PM EDT

[#46]

I wanted to o prone that day like I HAD been doing but the range wa packed and it woulda been a pin with other shooters and safety. I been on mud runs, idc about some cement dust

I have ADD. I overanalyze EVERYTHING. Every day. I also have the WONDERFUL luck of buying defective items.

I put the trigger in two different lowers, same thing. one was an 80% and the holes were drilled perfectly with my machinist friend assisting me :). You are correct, I have a bad taste with the big G for making a hitch point trigger. wonderful on point description of the slipping, lots of M4's do that, but as long as its btn 5.5-9lbs they go out lol. yeah I was a 45B active duty for 4yrs and then a 3rd shop Repairman @ fort Dix for 2yrs and then I actually taught at the Fort Lee Ord school, so when a part is inop, I use what I know to identify and replace it. to me, this trigger is failing to do its job at breaking clean, carrot or not. now, do I wanna spend more on a "better trigger" from Big G? NOPE...but they have the market by the balls, so I'm gonna have to do that or go Timney or Chip Mc or something that will have issues with falling apart because they aren't MIL-SPEC (aka lowest bidder and meh).

so, what would you do? sell a bad trigger to a dude in the EE? not on my conscience. I'm also too damn honest.

am I a whiny bitch in this thread? YUP. did i spend a shitload of money for a bunch of parts and a few have so far not performed up to snuff? YUP. GOOD thing I give a company ONE chance to fix their screwups. SLR got a chance, and they fixed it. Big G will get one chance, and prolly more money so I can but the trigger with the most widgets and bells and whistles to get the trigger pull I want.....the one that their other $200 triggers SHOULD come with.

blah. this is about to be not fun anymore. it's about to become an EE part out. shit is stupid. 1.5 moa and $1,700 into this, buying GOOD parts.....dudes with CL DDm4's do that with red dots. redic. I did some things incorrecly like scope level, but buying premium parts from premium companies shouldn't be done with a fear of defective parts.

/OFF rant.

Posted: 12/9/2014 9:27:35 PM EDT

[#47]

Geissele does a good job of describing the differences in their various triggers, both objectively and in subjective terms, including the break sensation.

It sounds like OP needs the SSA-E. Getting that trigger tightened up my groups by at least 1/2 MOA with match grade ammo.

Posted: 12/9/2014 9:45:02 PM EDT

[#48]

I hear ya. Not sure what to do about the trigger.

My Dad and I got some lowers from RRA about 5-6 years ago and ordered a 2 stage match trigger. I thought we were getting a "NM" trigger, but I think we might have gotten the varmint trigger. Mine breaks at like 3.7 lbs's and my Dad's breaks at 2.8 lbs. Or so. And you don't really have to do much work to get them to go. It is pretty much a non issue. It's take up slack, feel a little pressure and break. Nice and crisp. And they cost way less than the Gissellles. However, some people claim the RRA's can fail over use. So....

I think Wilson Combat might make one too. Possibly. Let me see....

wilson'striggersoundsgoodonsalefor215bucks

Posted: 12/9/2014 10:11:35 PM EDT

[#49]

i flet the RRA 2-stage ones at work.......lovely. I have thought about going to that one a few times....they get wonderful reviews. I will check out that wilson. I like wilson. my 1911 parts just plain WORK :)

Posted: 12/9/2014 10:30:21 PM EDT

[#50]

Quote History

Quoted:
i flet the RRA 2-stage ones at work.......lovely. I have thought about going to that one a few times....they get wonderful reviews. I will check out that wilson. I like wilson. my 1911 parts just plain WORK :)

View Quote

You probably can't go wrong with either. The upside to the wilson is apparently you can get it in single stage or 2 stage, depending on what you want. I haven't heard anyone around here talk about them, but it would be hard to imagine they are not top notch. Might be the way to go since you've dealt with them before.

The upside to the RRA is price and the fact that they function very well, when they are functioning. I might buy into the fact that it might not stand up to hard use like some of the others though. I don't know, there were claims and discussions in the past and I've never run mine hard enough to feel like I would know either way.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - all over the paper at the range.......what gives? (Page 2 of 3)

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