I run a SSA in my fighting rifle.

When you are responsible for every round you fire, it had better hit where you are aiming.

The SSA is 100% reliable and helps me be more accurate.

That's why you are still shooting a 1903 springfield, right?

And considered for the Marine Corps to replace the issue triggers on our guns in our divisions.

I have two RRA lowers, one with a single stage factory and one with a two stage factory trigger, neither have ever been modded/polished. Trigger pull weight on both feel identical, although I've never measured them I'd say they're about 5 to 6 lbs. So yours sounds lighter than normal, but I don't see this being an issue on a 'fighting' carbine. And I'll also provide the ARFCOM answer of 'buy both' by suggesting two lowers, one single stage/standard buffer/basic stock config for 'fighting' and the other with a two stage/heavy buffer/stock with saddle or aftermarket stock with a good cheek weld for range use.

The past personal experience "slave to milspec" logic would still have us shooting single shot black powder unrifled muskets.  Said one Revolutionary War soldier to another, " I didn't see one crew use guns with thise new fangled twisted grooves inside the barrel."  We get stuck in the past based on personal perception.  Guys with rifled barrels in the musket era must have been the "mall ninjas" of their day.  And think about how horrendously unsafe the Garrand and M1 carbines as semi-autos must have seemed to bolt gun 1903 Springfield users.

Improvements take time to obtain universal military approval.  That lengthy process is bureaucratic and political.  With respect, Geissele makes duty triggers, the SSA, in particular, that are completely appropriate on a "battle" rifle, and give it enhanced capabilities where precision is needed, without sacrificing dependability or safety under stress.

I say nay with a caveat. Caveat being scoped rifles that may be used in  DM role. two stage triggers are better for leading and shooting into the wind etc. but for fast paced shooting a single stage 3-4# trigger is best imo. A SS 7 pound stock trigger is bad, it will make you squeeze a for ever to take a deliberate shot. Get something light that will break like a glass rod and shoot alot to get used to it.

The ALG nickel Boron trigger in my new Mega build is quite a light trigger. I guess I'm used to the standard 6.5lb AR trigger but I swear this one is so smooth it feel like its between 4.5-5lbs... Its my HD/do it all 14.5" carbine so no, I wouldn't have a problem with an even slightly lighter trigger even on a "fighting" rifle...

This thread is interesting.  The trigger is such a personal item, it seems.  It is great to see the guys with actual duty experience say that they would prefer the SSA in their work rifle.  I have noticed a trend with guys that have several rifles to lean to one or the other, and I can totally understand that.

Most of mine do have a Geiselle, I am up to 6 of those.  I found that I get used to that trigger so much, that when I pick up one of the others with a ALG or just a DD FCG, I am looking for that first stage.  Probably not cool at all in a stressful situation.  I have no idea, I have never been in such state.

My first rifle was a 6920, and that trigger was all that I knew about ARs.  It was just...meh.  I added an RRA with one of their 2 stage triggers and just like the OP I found myself lighting off rounds a bit early in my breathing, and could not get used to it, at first.  A bit of research into my now wide open AR world, and I understood.  I learned to love a good 2 stage after that.

All my rambling aside; it is just one of those changes that guys seem to love or hate.  Myself, I do have a SSA in the rifle I have set for a go-to.  Most likely, those few rifles that I have with single stage triggers, will get fitted with them as well.  I still like a worn-in DD LPK, and the ALGs are great, too.  I just find that my old muscle memory is liking that Gieselle more and more.

The M1 Garand uses a 2 stage, and I don't think the GIs complained about it in combat.

My "mil-spec" triiger did actually break or not work properfly. It would fire on reset for me and a few other guys at my range so I upgraded to a Geissele.

 

I'm still very interested to hear why a Geissele trigger will fail, but a standard run of the mill GI trigger won't.

And even moreso, why a two stage trigger doesn't belong on a fighting rifle.

This should be interesting...

A two stage is a safer field trigger.

Give em time,  making shit up can take time.

Both triggers works great. If you want the fastest possible speed get a single stage. Most "race guns", competition AR's set up to race against the clock use single stage triggers. Most people are not professional gun slingers, because of that they won't be able to squeeze a single stage any faster than a two stage.  

A two stage trigger shines in sustained suppression fire much like NRA rapid fire events. By simply easing the trigger back just far enough to hear/feel the click of the second stage catching allows the shooter to fire the next round with 2/3rds. the trigger pull effort. This can be done until the shooter forgets to control the release or until they run out of ammo.

I shoot highpower so am used to 2-stage triggers and can shoot very fast (as I can pull the trigger) if need be. Faster than I can keep perfect sight alignment. I'll run combat style course for the fun of it and usually out perform 90% of the people there. A 2-stage does not hurt anything for most AR owners.

I would suggest a 4.5lb. trigger regardless of which design you choose. It's plenty light for an AR15 and triggers wear lighter over time. Starting out with  3.5lb. can become problematic once it lightens with wear.

couple of things as all these range and mall ninjas are killing this board.  Now 4-5lbs is not a heavy pull?  It was in the Garand so it's ok?  I read an article, knew a guy who knew a guy, Geiselle is the strongest greatest trigger ever and it's what my range coach uses, yada yada yada.....guys, breath deeply ok

1.how many of you retired or active duty have 2 stages in your weapon that Uncle Sam gave you?  thank you...none

2.how many of you from number 1 saw sof guys with 2 stage triggers in standard ARs?  thank you...none....

There are reason for the AR not being 2 stage in combat.  Just because most of our predecessors were 2 stage does mean it would be as functionally sound on the AR.  Now before we all get butt hurt because at the range or in some obstacle course behind the mall it works, I want you guys to actually think about some of the disadvantages associated with a 2 stage on a AR battle rifle (not the rifle you set up that sits in your closet or safe designated battle rifle that you take to the range with the $40 mag release button made of titanium)

I will say some of the comments here are stellar though.  Did some guy actually post a picture of his rifle in call of duty?

Actually, this is what we've been waiting to hear from you.

We've already had a quote provided in this thread from a member of an SOF unit that was all issued Geissele SSFs...

I don't get wound up over triggers. You can shoot well with any trigger if you practice. I learned to shoot a Glock with its ridiculous 8+ lb trigger very well. Took thousands of rounds but I did it.

You can overcome a poor trigger with practice, but you can't overcome a poor barrel no matter how much you shoot it.

I'll also add that I'm not seeing the relevance of the most common GI issued triggers as to dictating the reliability of a two stage trigger on a fighting rifle.

ETA - I can surely tell you that if our mil was standard issued the best of the best components across the board, the average GI issued rifle would be far different than they are right now...

This.  It's not our job to come up with the "disadvantages associated with a 2 stage on an AR" when you are the one claiming that there are "disadvantages."

How about you tell us what these "disadvantages" are since I can't seem to find any.  BTW I actually have used a two stage Geissele for more than a few thousand rounds on a couple of rifles.  What's your experience level?

Either way, your claims are bunk considering we have a verified member of SOF (Army SF IIRC) who has said that his unit received Geissele SSF's "for every M4A1 in the unit."

ETA:  Also, to top this all off, you keep on using this "mall ninja" comment.  We have multiple verified .mil members in here claiming that they have seen them in issue weapons and that they are as much, if not more reliable than a standard USGI FCG.  So, what are your qualifications to be making these statements?  Have you ever even used a Geissele?  

Well, let me update this thread since I started it.  

I probably should've been a bit more specific and said a "LIGHT" 2 stage trigger in a fighting gun.  I suppose "light" is relative though.  I own an M1A and a Garand and of course I know they have two stage triggers and they are both very nice.  However, they don't break under 4 lbs.  I don't know what spec was on them but I'm guessing my Garand is in the the neighborhood of 6 and the M1A in the above 4 range somewhere.  It is a loaded model and sort of focused on accuracy shooting.  Well, sort of a cross between a match rifle and regular bone stock.   But with either of these guns I don't recall ever feeling like I pressed that shot off early because the trigger was too light.  I measured them a long time ago but I know they weren't super light.  

So...  I just sat down and measured the trigger in question.  It's breaking at 2.6-2.8 pounds.  To me, that just seems insanely light.   And this carbine has a FEW rounds through it, but not like thousands and thousands.  I think it's more like somewhere around 500 rounds.  So there's no way it's because it's well broke in.  I think it was just this light to begin with.  I should've pulled out my recce right away and my Colt to test them, but they are heavier.  

So anyways....  Is 4.5 heavy enough for a fighting gun?  I don't know.  I didn't mean to start a war but apparently this is a hot topic.  I personally think a trigger less than 3 lbs is just too light.  Maybe I'm doing it wrong though.  I by no means am an expert on how to pull  a trigger during a fight.  But almost every trigger on any gun I have has that point that you kind of have to squeeze through (the break) while keeping your sights lined up, if you're shooting for accuracy.  Now if you're shooting CQB and spitting distances and quick, I think a swift press is the way to go.  

Anyways.....   I think for me it's just a matter of this particular trigger just being too light that it throws me sometimes.  But of course a super heavy trigger isn't all that conducive to good accuracy.  I'm not sure 4.5# is the perfect combat weight trigger, but maybe it is.  I'm not plunking down 240 bucks for a Giselle trigger when as someone said, you can practice with a heavier single stage.   I've gotten some pretty decent groups with my Colt and the stupid ole heavy trigger.  Yeah, it would be easier with a lighter trigger though.  I'm thinking 5# is probably about right for a good trigger, but again, I'm no expert.  I just know if you go too light, it makes it a little interesting for me to know where that break is.  

So.... someone want to send me a Giselle for free?    I think this particular M4gery needs something different though.   My Colt probably has to stay the way it is.   With those stupid different sized pins.  Plus the sear block gets in the way of some triggers.

I just remembered that one of my guns I grew up deer hunting with had about a 3 pound trigger.  It was single stage though and for some reason that made it different.  It's a lever gun.  And you line up your sights and just give it a little squeeze.  Maybe it's the 2 stage coupled with a light break that is throwing me.

Yeah, I'm of the opinion that 2.5 lbs is a little light for a standard run of the mill "battle rifle."  Precision bolt gun?  No.  Standard issue AR?  Yes.  The Geissele SSA breaks somewhere right around 4-4.5 lbs, so that is what I would say is a good weight.  Any lighter and I think you may run into some issues.

By chance, what kind of trigger do you own that is breaking at "2.6-2.8 lbs.?"  I had a standard LPK FCG that I installed in the build I did for my gf that was breaking super light for whatever reason.  I swapped it out with a spare I had (utilizing the same springs from the original FCG that was breaking light) and it went back to feeling like a standard run of the mill LPK FCG.  I don't know what was wrong with it, but it just wasn't right.

I have had several US military issued weapons with 2-stage triggers to include the Knight, the Krieger-Milazzo, Armalite, and the Geissele.  I in fact built and had my unit build over 450 rifles for the 3rd Infantry Division, and rebuilt over 500 rifles for the Ranger Regiment and other US Army Special Operations Command units.  My unit also built rifles for the Army and Army Reserve Rifle Teams as well as USSOCOM competitors.

I have in fact carried an individually-issued M4A1 carbine in combat with an issued Geissele SSF trigger.

The Mk 12, Mk11 Mod 0 and M110 all have or had 2 stage triggers.

The M16A4PIP had a SSF trigger on it.

RRA.  It's in my op.

3.5 is for what the NRA calls a "Match Rifle."

4.5 is for what the military and the Civilian Marksmanship Program call a "Service Rifle" trigger (and is specified for the M110 sniper rifle system).

2.6 - 2.8 is very, very light.

I have seen the older Rock River and Armalite triggers go around 10,000 to 12,000 rounds before requiring replacement in competition AR Service Rifles.

The Rock River's Achilles Heel are the disconnector pin and the surface hardness of the hammer hooks.

Ahhhh you were talking about the RRA two stage in the OP.  For some reason I thought you were talking about a different rifle.  I suppose I should have read more carefully considering it's pretty obvious you were after re-reading your post that I quoted.  

My mistake.  

Unlike the M1 and M14?

No probs.  I wasn't trying to make you feel dumb.  Just pointing out that I did specify.  But where I screwed the pooch was by not specifying about a 2 stage trigger that is "really light" should be on a fighting gun or not.   Ooooops.

Care to share your opinions as to why?

We've been waiting to hear some reasons why a two stage trigger doesn't belong on a fighting rifle from the others who share this sentiment, but have yet to get a response in that area.

I can't come up with any reasons myself, so truly am curious.

Military rifles had 2 stages triggers for a long time prior to the M16.