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Posted: 11/29/2016 1:14:07 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Smithy:
No. Reflex dot verses a prismatic scope at 1x are not the same. They are also slower with both eyes open. The 1-4x is a trade off. On the upside you get a fancy reticle and some magnification for longer shots and target id. On the downside you lose some speed at 1x. I have tried a few different 1-4x scopes on my sbr trying to like them but I keep going back to red dot for the speed within 100 meters. On my 16" recce I use a 1-4x SWFA and its awesome. You just have to decide what you what your rifle to do. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Smithy:
Originally Posted By manowar669:
How is a 1x optic for close shooting? Similar to a dot? No. Reflex dot verses a prismatic scope at 1x are not the same. They are also slower with both eyes open. The 1-4x is a trade off. On the upside you get a fancy reticle and some magnification for longer shots and target id. On the downside you lose some speed at 1x. I have tried a few different 1-4x scopes on my sbr trying to like them but I keep going back to red dot for the speed within 100 meters. On my 16" recce I use a 1-4x SWFA and its awesome. You just have to decide what you what your rifle to do. You get both!! It has and always will be the only answer |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 11/29/2016 10:26:56 PM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 11/30/2016 10:38:22 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GoRebels:
You get both!! It has and always will be the only answer Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GoRebels:
Originally Posted By Smithy:
Originally Posted By manowar669:
How is a 1x optic for close shooting? Similar to a dot? No. Reflex dot verses a prismatic scope at 1x are not the same. They are also slower with both eyes open. The 1-4x is a trade off. On the upside you get a fancy reticle and some magnification for longer shots and target id. On the downside you lose some speed at 1x. I have tried a few different 1-4x scopes on my sbr trying to like them but I keep going back to red dot for the speed within 100 meters. On my 16" recce I use a 1-4x SWFA and its awesome. You just have to decide what you what your rifle to do. You get both!! It has and always will be the only answer Agreed. If you want a magnified optic with the speed of a red dot you will need to add a red dot on top of the scope or in an offset mount. The smaller ones work well, RMR, Fastfire, venoms... |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/30/2016 11:19:50 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By htomeheb:
Liking it a lot actually. The eye relief is plenty. I think the X is probably a bit over kill. I'm currently playing around with a riser underneath the mount, and the added height actually makes it quite faster and easier to find the eyebox for me. The whole "heads up" shooting thing definitely has merit. If I end up liking this like I think will, I may just switch to the "H" HT, good to have you on the dark side Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By htomeheb:
Originally Posted By MrJonesandMe:
How're you liking the Steiner? I'm about to pull the trigger on one. Does the recon mount give you enough eye relief or do you wish you got the recon-x? The eye relief is plenty. I think the X is probably a bit over kill. I'm currently playing around with a riser underneath the mount, and the added height actually makes it quite faster and easier to find the eyebox for me. The whole "heads up" shooting thing definitely has merit. If I end up liking this like I think will, I may just switch to the "H" HT, good to have you on the dark side |
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Posted: 11/30/2016 12:24:59 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote History
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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/30/2016 10:55:06 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By manowar669:
How is a 1x optic for close shooting? Similar to a dot? It depends on the scope, supersetca on youtube runs 1-4/6's vs eotechs and he gets some times that are less than .1 faster with an eotech but some scopes he gets faster than the eotech. My TR24 is like a dot to me. Sometimes with a small dot I feel that I have to chase the dot. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/1/2016 4:37:04 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By manowar669:
How is a 1x optic for close shooting? Similar to a dot? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJEKbHPLseY |
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Posted: 12/1/2016 8:54:40 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By schaffer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJEKbHPLseY Yup....'nuff said. Myth debunked. Plus...do you really need that nanosecond speed difference with a red dot? What are you doing? If it's competitions or SWAT, then yes you do. Otherwise...get real.  AR-15 Red Dot vs Magnified Optic with Sentinel Concepts |
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Posted: 12/1/2016 12:45:37 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 12/1/2016 3:25:31 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By minion42:
Yup....'nuff said. Myth debunked. Plus...do you really need that nanosecond speed difference with a red dot? What are you doing? If it's competitions or SWAT, then yes you do. Otherwise...get real.  nJEKbHPLseY</iframe>If you want the fastest possible optic for 50 yards and in then a red dot is the answer. If you want an optic that is not dependent on eye relief to properly see the reticle then a red dot is the answer. If you want an optic that you know is always going to be at a true 1x then a red dot is the answer. if you want an optic that is easiest to use in unconventional shooting positions then a red dot is the answer. If you want an optic that is parallax free then a red dot is the answer. (in most cases) if you want the freedom to mount your optic as far forward as you want or as far backward then a red dot is the answer. If you want to weapon mount a NV monocular for passive night shooting then a NV compatible red dot is the answer. (yes, I know there are magnified setups that can use night vision, but we are talking ease of use and simplicity) If you want an optic that is consistent in all conditions and not dependent on the ambient lighting in order to have a clear view of the reticle and the tube then a red dot is the answer. If you want an optic that can easily be used with both eyes open techniques during quick transitions then a red dot is the answer. It goes without saying that a quality red dot will be better at all these things. If you are willing to sacrifice the efficiency of any of the above points or you need the magnification for longer range shooting or target ID then go with a 1-4x or other magnified optic of your choosing. 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/1/2016 3:29:06 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Smithy:
If you want the fastest possible optic for 50 yards and in then a red dot is the answer. If you want an optic that is not dependent on eye relief to properly see the reticle then a red dot is the answer. If you want an optic that you know is always going to be at a true 1x then a red dot is the answer. if you want an optic that is easiest to use in unconventional shooting positions then a red dot is the answer. If you want an optic that is parallax free then a red dot is the answer. (in most cases) if you want the freedom to mount your optic as far forward as you want or as far backward then a red dot is the answer. If you want to weapon mount a NV monocular for passive night shooting then a NV compatible red dot is the answer. (yes, I know there are magnified setups that can use night vision, but we are talking ease of use and simplicity) If you want an optic that is consistent in all conditions and not dependent on the ambient lighting in order to have a clear view of the reticle and the tube then a red dot is the answer. If you want an optic that can easily be used with both eyes open techniques during quick transitions then a red dot is the answer. It goes without saying that a quality red dot will be better at all these things. If you are willing to sacrifice the efficiency of any of the above points or you need the magnification for longer range shooting or target ID then go with a 1-4x or other magnified optic of your choosing. I'm saving that by the way |
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Posted: 12/1/2016 5:19:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Smithy]
[#12]
The top picture was my Mini Recce. This was about a year ago. The second picture is its current config. The optic is Aimpoint Comp M2 4 MOA. Much happier with this. The last picture is my current Recce. Two different rifles, two different roles. One does not try to be the other.
I would be confident using the SBR with the aimpoint on anything 300 yards and in. I shot a run and gun this summer and nailed the 500 meter target 2 out of 3 times with a fixed 2.5x. With the 4moa optic 500 yards would be tough to do consistently but that's not what this rifle is for. 
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WA, USA
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Posted: 12/1/2016 8:57:56 PM EDT
[#13]
13.7" micro moa track barrel w/ pinned and welded 249f. |
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Posted: 12/1/2016 9:27:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AWHAILYEAH]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuburbanNinja23:
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u87/SuburbanNinja253/IMG_0671_zpsoupw0p23.jpg 13.7" micro moa track barrel w/ pinned and welded 249f. Nice!! Love the 13.7 and B.E Meyers combos with 13.5 rails ETA: Is that Krylon or Aervo? and what color combos |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 12/1/2016 9:33:20 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GoRebels:
Nice!! Love the 13.7 and B.E Meyers combos with 13.5 rails ETA: Is that Krylon or Aervo? and what color combos Thanks! I used Krylon camo khaki and brown with Rustoleum camo forest green |
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USA
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Posted: 12/2/2016 1:16:06 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By usmp216:
[url]http://" />[url]http://" /> What muzzle device is that? |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 12/2/2016 2:06:02 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By evil_nadman:
What muzzle device is that? Rugged Suppressors flash hider |
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USA
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Posted: 12/2/2016 8:34:26 AM EDT
[#18]
Thank for the quick response!
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USA
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Posted: 12/2/2016 9:55:41 PM EDT
[#19]
Spent the afternoon going through this thread -- inspiring builds. Like I needed another.
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Posted: 12/3/2016 1:20:15 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By minion42:
Yup....'nuff said. Myth debunked. Plus...do you really need that nanosecond speed difference with a red dot? What are you doing? If it's competitions or SWAT, then yes you do. Otherwise...get real. nJEKbHPLseY</iframe>Damn that guy is huge, the AR looks like a toy. 
Very good video, thanks for sharing |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 1:37:28 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Smithy:
If you want the fastest possible optic for 50 yards and in then a red dot is the answer. If you want an optic that is not dependent on eye relief to properly see the reticle then a red dot is the answer. If you want an optic that you know is always going to be at a true 1x then a red dot is the answer. if you want an optic that is easiest to use in unconventional shooting positions then a red dot is the answer. If you want an optic that is parallax free then a red dot is the answer. (in most cases) if you want the freedom to mount your optic as far forward as you want or as far backward then a red dot is the answer. If you want to weapon mount a NV monocular for passive night shooting then a NV compatible red dot is the answer. (yes, I know there are magnified setups that can use night vision, but we are talking ease of use and simplicity) If you want an optic that is consistent in all conditions and not dependent on the ambient lighting in order to have a clear view of the reticle and the tube then a red dot is the answer. If you want an optic that can easily be used with both eyes open techniques during quick transitions then a red dot is the answer. It goes without saying that a quality red dot will be better at all these things. If you are willing to sacrifice the efficiency of any of the above points or you need the magnification for longer range shooting or target ID then go with a 1-4x or other magnified optic of your choosing. How perfect do you think your eye relief needs to be when your at CQB distances? |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 12:23:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Smithy]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RePp:
How perfect do you think your eye relief needs to be when your at CQB distances? The guys in the video are comparing the speed of optics at 7 yards. You could probably go with no optics at 7 yards and get hits just as quick on man sized targets. So, they proved nothing. What do you consider cqb distance? Arms length? Hand grenade range? I consider it inside 50 meters. From experience I would say when using an optic that has an eye box you need to in for a proper sight picture approaching 50 meters proper relief is very important. Not an issue with red dots. Edit: probably closer than 50 meters even, maybe more like 25. If my rifle is specifically for 100 meters and in with the occasional shots to around 300 I'll stick with a red dot. Different strokes for different folks. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/5/2016 8:35:38 PM EDT
[#23]
Arisaka Defense low profile bipod mount arrived for the Harris. I thought I could get away with using the knurled knob but that shit is a no-go. Gotta order the level ASAP.
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WI, USA
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Posted: 12/6/2016 12:54:00 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RePp:
How perfect do you think your eye relief needs to be when your at CQB distances? Agreed. 10 yards and in, find the illuminated reticle, put it on target, and pull the trigger. Don't worry about perfect head position. Granted, scopes with larger eye boxes do make the shooting experience more enjoyable. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 11:35:19 AM EDT
[#25]
I prefer a low power variable optic over a red dot.
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Posted: 12/6/2016 1:01:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Smithy]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fish1856:
Agreed. 10 yards and in, find the illuminated reticle, put it on target, and pull the trigger. Don't worry about perfect head position. Granted, scopes with larger eye boxes do make the shooting experience more enjoyable. Like I said before, engagements at extreme close distances such as 7 yards or even 10 yards can be done damn near with your eyes closed. I'm exaggerating, but you get my point. I am explaining the need, or lack there of, and practicality of a magnified variable power optic over a red dot for a 100 meters and in. I have already stated all the pros of a red dot over a variable optic at 100 meters and in so I will not repeat them here. So we can stop with the "10 yards and in crowd". 10 yards and in? It really doesn't matter, point and shoot. 100 yards and in Red dot is king. Distances over 100-300 meters (depending on the rifle and its intended use) a variable powered optic might be what you seek. In the end get what you like and what meets your expectations and intent of the weapon it will be placed on and train with it.
Edit to add: For a short range rifle intended for 100 meters and in use, I will pick a red dot any day over a prismatic or variable scope at 1x. Try shooting around or under cars, on your back, in unconventional positions, shooting with body armor and other gear that could possibly hinder your ability to get proper eye relief on the scope. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 1:04:23 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Smithy:
Like I said before, engagements at extreme close distances such as 7 yards or even 10 yards can be done damn near with your eyes closed. I'm exaggerating, but you get my point. I am explaining the need, or lack there of, and practicality of a magnified variable power optic over a red dot for a 100 meters and in. I have already stated all the pros of a red dot over a variable optic at 100 meters and in so I will not repeat them here. So we can stop with the "10 yards and in crowd". 10 yards and in? It really doesn't matter, point and shoot. 100 yards and in Red dot is king. Distances over 100-300 meters (depending on the rifle and its intended use) a variable powered optic might be what you seek. In the end get what you like and what meets your expectations and intent of the weapon it will be placed on and train with it. +1 |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 8:57:24 PM EDT
[#28]
Enlighten me folks. Building up my REECE. 12 in LaRue stealth. It will run a suppressor. Within the year. Should I go with a muzzle device for that, or are there any nice ones in the mean time?
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WI, USA
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Posted: 12/7/2016 12:45:43 AM EDT
[#29]
I genuinely prefer my swaro 1-6 over the MRO I owned on the same rifle BUT, your last sentence is absolutely correct. a PC shooting underneath a car? The lack of paralax makes the red dot king in that situation, no doubt.
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WI, USA
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Posted: 12/7/2016 12:46:21 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cccpNyC:
Enlighten me folks. Building up my REECE. 12 in LaRue stealth. It will run a suppressor. Within the year. Should I go with a muzzle device for that, or are there any nice ones in the mean time? I would absolutely just get your suppressor mount now and be done with it. I can be lazy though, so it's up to you. |
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Posted: 12/7/2016 12:59:49 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cccpNyC:
Enlighten me folks. Building up my REECE. 12 in LaRue stealth. It will run a suppressor. Within the year. Should I go with a muzzle device for that, or are there any nice ones in the mean time? What suppressor? I say get the mount now. If it's available get a blast shield to go with the mount if it's a break. |
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Posted: 12/7/2016 1:02:13 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fish1856:
I genuinely prefer my swaro 1-6 over the MRO I owned on the same rifle BUT, your last sentence is absolutely correct. a PC shooting underneath a car? The lack of paralax makes the red dot king in that situation, no doubt. The red dot has its place as does the variable 1-4x or 1-?. I would venture to say anybody lurking in this particularly thread will probably go with a variable optic. |
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Posted: 12/7/2016 5:24:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: cjwwd2]
[#33]
Can't remember if it was here or another thread but I can't find it for some reason....someone had a mini recce, 12.5" barrel with a Knight's medium length FF RAS. If someone finds the pic, let me know!
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Posted: 12/7/2016 6:37:05 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Smithy:
What suppressor? I say get the mount now. If it's available get a blast shield to go with the mount if it's a break. Was looking at the SiCo Hybrid or the Griffin Optimus. Would get a brake. But damn if SiCo's blast shield doesn't look like dildos  The SiCo I can get from my dealer for $150 less or so than the Griffin 
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MO, USA
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Posted: 12/8/2016 12:05:09 AM EDT
[#35]
Smithy your mini recce is sick. Awesome.
What forward grip panel is that? |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 12:34:05 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MidwestJ:
Smithy your mini recce is sick. Awesome. What forward grip panel is that? Thanks. The mlok covers are magpul. The hand stop is a no name stop that I found on the cheap. Its purpose is to give a good index for my off hand and to keep it from coming forward of the muzzle. It also works good on barracades. I am think about milling some teeth in the front to dig in better during barracade shooting. |
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Posted: 12/11/2016 12:41:24 AM EDT
[#37]
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IN, USA
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Posted: 12/14/2016 8:30:13 PM EDT
[#38]
This is my mini built on a incindia lower.
Aero M4E1 upper and carbine hanguard, BCM 12.5 in bfh barrel, gemtech TREK, adj gas, giesselle S2G, viper pst, and magpul furniture with a dyed E93 seatbelt 2 point sling. Thoughts? I'll get a good pic as soon as I can. |
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Posted: 12/14/2016 9:19:38 PM EDT
[#39]
What's a good 1-4/6 that's lightweight.
I can loose illumination if needed. Had a PST - was a pig. Need lightweight. |
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Posted: 12/14/2016 10:02:40 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83:
What's a good 1-4/6 that's lightweight. I can loose illumination if needed. Had a PST - was a pig. Need lightweight. Define your criteria for "lightweight." It could mean different things to different people Most compact variable power scopes are between 14-18ozs. If your 1-4 PST had adjustable turrets it weighed 16ozs. Going with the capped turrets model gets you down to 14ozs. The Leupold VX-R patrol 1.25-4 weighs 11.5ozs. That's pretty light. But, what's the most important thing to you? If it's weight then go with the Leupold. If it's reticle or having as close to a true 1x, then the PST you had was a pretty good option. Doing something like an Aero precision ultralight mount at 3ozs and some change saves you 5ozs over an American Defense recon QD mount. QD vs non, you decide. I guess what I'm trying to say is: the Vortex 1-4 PST is by no means a pig. Is it heavier than an Aimpoint micro with mount (6ozs) ? Yeah, you're gonna feel the difference. But I don't think shaving a couple ounces off the scope and/or mount is going to make you feel better. Maybe a heavier stock would. |
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ME, USA
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Posted: 12/15/2016 8:29:04 PM EDT
[#41]
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/15/2016 11:35:29 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83:
What's a good 1-4/6 that's lightweight. I can loose illumination if needed. Had a PST - was a pig. Need lightweight. Take a look at the TR24 triangle. It's very light for a lpv, good glass, and for me at least very fast close and I can hit with relative ease out to 400 meters. I have one on my mini recce and it handles great. I almost sold mine but decided to keep it for that reason. Plus you get daytime illumination and the triangle is still usable with a white light, just blacked out. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/19/2016 10:27:43 PM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 12/20/2016 10:07:08 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryGood looking stick! Better be careful posting photos of non free floated recces! I posted one and got slammed because it was just an M4 with an ACOG! 
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Posted: 12/27/2016 5:39:24 PM EDT
[#45]
12.5" / AEM2 / URXII / Fostech Echo FCG
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/27/2016 9:51:21 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Maddy21:
Take a look at the TR24 triangle. It's very light for a lpv, good glass, and for me at least very fast close and I can hit with relative ease out to 400 meters. I have one on my mini recce and it handles great. I almost sold mine but decided to keep it for that reason. Plus you get daytime illumination and the triangle is still usable with a white light, just blacked out. I agree with everything in that statement. I've only had my triangle out to 250 but hitting a 6inch plate was not a problem, I also have the german crosshairs on another rifle and I've hit jack rabbits out to 315 with that scope. I will say the non triangle reticles are not that bright because the area they filled with tritium is small. For a general purpose 0-300 man sized targets, triangle all day, print smaller groups on paper or hitting smaller targets I would go with german, mil dot, or if you get the TR25 I would look at the moa dot. |
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Posted: 12/27/2016 10:13:18 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TBone556:
I agree with everything in that statement. I've only had my triangle out to 250 but hitting a 6inch plate was not a problem, I also have the german crosshairs on another rifle and I've hit jack rabbits out to 315 with that scope. I will say the non triangle reticles are not that bright because the area they filled with tritium is small. For a general purpose 0-300 man sized targets, triangle all day, print smaller groups on paper or hitting smaller targets I would go with german, mil dot, or if you get the TR25 I would look at the moa dot. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TBone556:
Originally Posted By Maddy21:
Take a look at the TR24 triangle. It's very light for a lpv, good glass, and for me at least very fast close and I can hit with relative ease out to 400 meters. I have one on my mini recce and it handles great. I almost sold mine but decided to keep it for that reason. Plus you get daytime illumination and the triangle is still usable with a white light, just blacked out. I agree with everything in that statement. I've only had my triangle out to 250 but hitting a 6inch plate was not a problem, I also have the german crosshairs on another rifle and I've hit jack rabbits out to 315 with that scope. I will say the non triangle reticles are not that bright because the area they filled with tritium is small. For a general purpose 0-300 man sized targets, triangle all day, print smaller groups on paper or hitting smaller targets I would go with german, mil dot, or if you get the TR25 I would look at the moa dot. Agreed. I love my TR24s for minute-of-dude shots out to 200. |
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Posted: 12/28/2016 8:28:23 PM EDT
[#48]
I've used a TR24 with the German #4 green dot since 2010 in 3 gun competitions and some coyote hunting.
I started with the green triangle and just couldn't do it. The crosshairs were much more natural for me. The TR24 is now on my 11.5" Mod 2 and I have a TR25 with moa dot on the 16". To be honest I haven't used the TR25 enough to form an opinion from experience. Only used it on my own range time, no competitions or classes with it. Hoping to change that in 2017 and get some experience behind it. I know we're getting tired of seeing the same pics but I haven't been able to snap any new ones. I'll try to this week sometime. Maybe some video too. 
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Posted: 12/28/2016 9:10:13 PM EDT
[#49]
Mini Recce?
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Posted: 12/29/2016 12:44:18 AM EDT
[#50]
My mini, now with my Christmas present to myself
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