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Posted: 9/2/2014 2:13:24 PM EDT
[#1]
Stack it yourself. Get new screws remove the old properly torque them and stake it yourself.
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Posted: 9/2/2014 2:58:57 PM EDT
[#2]
They probably torqued it too loose at 35-40 lbs in. which ends up only about 3 lbs ft. to about 3-1/2 lbs ft. of torque. Torque it to 55-65 lbs in. which is a tad over 4-1/2 lbs ft. to about 5-1/2 lbs ft., and you'll be set. Which 55-65 lbs in. is also the torque spec Colt set for the M231.
Even Armalite put a tech note out on this issue. Technical Note 47: Increased Carrier Key Torque. I used a bcg from RCA that the carrier key screws loosened on me, so I just used by inch pound (lbs in) torque wrench, and torqued the screws back to 55 inch pounds (lbs in). Since doing so I have had no issues with the screws loosening. 
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Posted: 9/2/2014 3:12:37 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Last year my Stag bolt key came loose due to insufficient staking: I sent my upper back to Stag and they returned it restaked in less than two weeks, which is excellent considering last year's panic buying spree. Over the past year I've found a lot less time to shoot, and thus have only dropped 500 rounds down range. Imagine my surprise yesterday when the M16 once again wouldn't shoot more than one round! I stripped the gun and sure enough, the key is just as loose as it was last year. I caught some flak last year for RMAing the upper, but I really think it's important to let Stag examine the unit, which has now failed a second time after fewer rounds and mostly unsilenced. I love my Stag upper, and will gladly keep shooting it, but I'm surprised to have the exact same failure again, this time with fewer rounds. In full disclosure, I'm an 07 FFL with an 02 SOT, but I'm the only one that uses the upper (it's not a rental or anything like that). Considering an M16 is about a $15,000 rifle, you would think the BCG would be staked correctly. |
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Posted: 9/2/2014 3:28:35 PM EDT
[#4]
Where are you finding M-16's so cheap? Most are twice that.
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Posted: 9/2/2014 3:53:15 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where are you finding M-16's so cheap? Most are twice that. Its a Stag..not an M16. The OP is confused. That is unless Stag is making full auto weapons. 
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Posted: 9/2/2014 4:21:37 PM EDT
[#6]
Considering that Stag has only been in business since 2003, I highly doubt that they have any that can bear the name of M-16- especially sold to civilians. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
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Posted: 9/2/2014 4:29:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Reading is key, guys.
He has a stag upper... |
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Posted: 9/2/2014 4:32:14 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Reading is key, guys. He has a stag upper... He said he has a Stag. He said he SENT the upper back to Stag. Unless the OP would come back and clear this up I still say the OP is confused. |
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Posted: 9/2/2014 4:38:20 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He said he has a Stag. He said he SENT the upper back to Stag. Unless the OP would come back and clear this up I still say the OP is confused. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Reading is key, guys. He has a stag upper... He said he has a Stag. He said he SENT the upper back to Stag. Unless the OP would come back and clear this up I still say the OP is confused. What are you confused about? Seems legit to me... Who do you expect him to send a STAG upper to other than STAG? |
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Posted: 9/2/2014 4:46:27 PM EDT
[#10]
OP (me) is not confused, but might have been unclear:
I am an 07 FFL with an 02 SOT, which means I can buy and/or manufacture full auto firearms. However, the stag upper I'm referencing in this post is personally owned and used on a pre-86 civilian legal Colt M16A1 lower, and is currently on a form 4 in the great state of Texas. I'll keep this post updated with my findings... I really want Stag to fix their staking issue. This affects everybody; I'm just making the issue present itself sooner by shooting under worst case conditions – FA, silenced, & SBR – but note this most recent failure is after less than 500 rounds FA, most of which were not silenced. I suspect that the staking and/or torque specifications Stag uses are incorrect, and am posting publicly for posterity, in case others run into this issue. |
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Posted: 9/2/2014 4:58:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He said he has a Stag. He said he SENT the upper back to Stag. Unless the OP would come back and clear this up I still say the OP is confused. Reading comprehension.........it's VERY important, GOOGLE it! |
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Posted: 9/2/2014 5:01:24 PM EDT
[#12]
A soup sandwich, this is.
Only on ar15.com 
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Posted: 9/2/2014 5:03:43 PM EDT
[#13]
Devil is in the details......
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Posted: 9/2/2014 5:04:51 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Devil is in the details...... Agreed. I was just marveling
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Posted: 9/2/2014 5:08:23 PM EDT
[#15]
Would so love to have a FA carbine.......would not be cheap to feed though.
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Posted: 9/2/2014 5:29:23 PM EDT
[#16]
It has long been known how stag stakes their carrier keys. For most it has been a non issue especially when it takes a couple of minutes to just fix yourself. I have a upper from the 2006 time frame that has several thousand round through it with no problems. I purposely left the factory staking intact to see what would happen.
I suspect the rate of fire the OP puts his through may be why his keeps coming loose. |
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Posted: 9/2/2014 6:54:27 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP (me) is not confused, but might have been unclear: I am an 07 FFL with an 02 SOT, which means I can buy and/or manufacture full auto firearms. However, the stag upper I'm referencing in this post is personally owned and used on a pre-86 civilian legal Colt M16A1 lower, and is currently on a form 4 in the great state of Texas. I'll keep this post updated with my findings... I really want Stag to fix their staking issue. This affects everybody; I'm just making the issue present itself sooner by shooting under worst case conditions – FA, silenced, & SBR – but note this most recent failure is after less than 500 rounds FA, most of which were not silenced. I suspect that the staking and/or torque specifications Stag uses are incorrect, and am posting publicly for posterity, in case others run into this issue. Thanx for the clarification. |
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Posted: 9/2/2014 7:03:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They probably torqued it too loose at 35-40 lbs in. which ends up only about 3 lbs ft. to about 3-1/2 lbs ft. of torque. Torque it to 55-65 lbs in. which is a tad over 4-1/2 lbs ft. to about 5-1/2 lbs ft., and you'll be set. Which 55-65 lbs in. is also the torque spec Colt set for the M231. Even Armalite put a tech note out on this issue. Technical Note 47: Increased Carrier Key Torque. I used a bcg from RCA that the carrier key screws loosened on me, so I just used by inch pound (lbs in) torque wrench, and torqued the screws back to 55 inch pounds (lbs in). Since doing so I have had no issues with the screws loosening. http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a601/AVIDavid1982/M231KeyandBoltCarrierAssembley_zpsab81ae5f.png It's interesting in that this BC and Key Assy drawing from 1977 shows that the key screws aren't staked, if I'm reading it correctly (scanned drawings aren't great) there are (2) .062" thru holes that are thru the key itself and the screws and the 2 spring pins keep them from moving. Staking is way faster and cheaper. |
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Posted: 9/2/2014 7:09:20 PM EDT
[#19]
Well this is awesome news considering I ordered a stag bcg last night. I hope they have the issue fixed, but it sounds like a very simple fix at the same time
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Posted: 9/2/2014 9:43:59 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's interesting in that this BC and Key Assy drawing from 1977 shows that the key screws aren't staked, if I'm reading it correctly (scanned drawings aren't great) there are (2) .062" thru holes that are thru the key itself and the screws and the 2 spring pins keep them from moving. Staking is way faster and cheaper. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They probably torqued it too loose at 35-40 lbs in. which ends up only about 3 lbs ft. to about 3-1/2 lbs ft. of torque. Torque it to 55-65 lbs in. which is a tad over 4-1/2 lbs ft. to about 5-1/2 lbs ft., and you'll be set. Which 55-65 lbs in. is also the torque spec Colt set for the M231. Even Armalite put a tech note out on this issue. Technical Note 47: Increased Carrier Key Torque. I used a bcg from RCA that the carrier key screws loosened on me, so I just used by inch pound (lbs in) torque wrench, and torqued the screws back to 55 inch pounds (lbs in). Since doing so I have had no issues with the screws loosening. http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a601/AVIDavid1982/M231KeyandBoltCarrierAssembley_zpsab81ae5f.png It's interesting in that this BC and Key Assy drawing from 1977 shows that the key screws aren't staked, if I'm reading it correctly (scanned drawings aren't great) there are (2) .062" thru holes that are thru the key itself and the screws and the 2 spring pins keep them from moving. Staking is way faster and cheaper. That's probably because the carrier is for a M231. It has a cyclic rate of almost 1,400 rounds per minute, the vibration would be much higher than on a standard M-16. |
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Posted: 9/2/2014 11:13:13 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's probably because the carrier is for a M231. Correct. The print also lists it is a M231 carrier drawing. As for the torque specification, if the M231 carrier key can hold together with a torque range of 55-65 lbs in.; then clearly it'll work with an AR15. Also as I mentioned, Armalite's tech note uses this very same torque range. |
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Posted: 9/2/2014 11:59:31 PM EDT
[#22]
Wondered when that pic would pop up again. Cross pinned gas key screws... 
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Posted: 9/3/2014 2:09:46 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its a Stag..not an M16. The OP is confused. That is unless Stag is making full auto weapons. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Where are you finding M-16's so cheap? Most are twice that. Its a Stag..not an M16. The OP is confused. That is unless Stag is making full auto weapons. Actually, I'm pretty sure Stag does make select fire weapons for Govt./LE |
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Posted: 9/3/2014 2:10:40 AM EDT
[#24]
I have not had an issue yet with a Carrier Key *knocks on wood*, though this thread makes we want to invest in a MOACKS II...
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Posted: 9/3/2014 2:22:39 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wondered when that pic would pop up again. Cross pinned gas key screws... What's interesting about those roll pins (MS16562-98) is that they are the same roll pins as the pin used for the ejector roll pin in an AR15 bolt, and they have a minimum double shear strength of 425 lbs. |
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