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Bolt release, but I have used the CH before I read this thread and didn't think it was better.
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I really could care less what other people do, I always use the bolt release.
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As a lefty I use the charging handle for most everything but occasionally use the bolt release when I can reach it. I've not really noticed any difference for myself. Using the charging handle more often also helps me in low/no light situations where I can't see the chamber. It helps me to feel whether I have an empty weapon or a possible malfunction. As augee said, having the wisdom to know when to use each one is the ideal condition to be in, as with all things.
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Charging handle. As far as I know, very few instructors teach it, but it works and once you're used to it, it's damned fast.
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Like I said - I understand the logic/reason that some people prefer/advocate it, though one thing to consider is that some instructors that run multi-platform classes have adopted this kind of stance as a result of having students with different types of weapons in their classes - it's easier to teach one procedure that everyone can use, as opposed to having to teach multiple different procedures to different students with different weapons - the same thing has applied with many handgun instructors.
Particularly with European designs, not all have easily accessible and/or ergonomically ideal bolt release/stops, whether rifle or pistol, and particularly with rifles, some lack even a last round bolt hold open. AKs are the same way - it's easier from an instructor standpoint to teach "use the charging handle/slingshot the slide" across the board - something that everyone can do and learn. From a practical standpoint - as others have mentioned - while the whole "100% of the recoil spring" theory sounds good, I'd have to side with those who wonder how much the extra friction and drag of the charging handle cancels that theoretical benefit out when racking the rifle. Once again, though - I understand the thought process, at least: "Why use a finer motor movement when a gross movement will do the trick, regardless of whether or not you can or cannot do the fine movement," and "it's important to build simple muscle memory and learn to do some things automatically, and at speed," not to mention "you may have to pick up another weapon that doesn't have a bolt release for whatever reason, and you want to be able to get back in the fight as quickly as possible without having to adjust as much," etc. Some reasons are more logical/sensible than others, but I think in this case flexibility, situational awareness, and tactical decision making are more important. Just get the weapon back in the fight, however you need to. Train both - and more importantly, train in scenario/situation based iterations to give you more experience with making the "correct" decision on the fly, rather than rote memorization and muscle memory applied to a single technique on an administrative range. ~Augee |
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The CH is kind of the weak link of the AR weapon system so the less you use it the better IMO.
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Maybe. But it's physically impossible for it to be faster than slapping a bolt release in most situations for most people. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Charging handle. As far as I know, very few instructors teach it, but it works and once you're used to it, it's damned fast. Maybe. But it's physically impossible for it to be faster than slapping a bolt release in most situations for most people. True. But some of the few hang ups I've had with ARs were rounds that didn't go all the way into battery when using the bolt catch. CH works for me. |
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Quoted: Bolt release. You could argue that the charging handle itself adds weight and friction to the forward motion of the bolt carrier group. View Quote |
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Not only that, but there is the possibility of inadvertently riding the charging handle. Even riding it very briefly would be enough to negate any advantage of that extra fraction of an inch of spring compression over using the bolt release. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Bolt release. You could argue that the charging handle itself adds weight and friction to the forward motion of the bolt carrier group. No possibility at all the way I learned to do it. I understand the concerns people have, but in reality, they need not be concerned with most of the issues mentioned. |
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Another solution in search of a problem. I use the bolt release on rifle and handgun.
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The bolt release, because for 1 thing that's what its for- to release the bolt. If it doesn't work, there's a problem which should be identified and corrected. Also much easier & faster- this can be done without taking the buttplate off the shoulder, and can be done even with something in your hand- gross motor skill vs fine motor skill. View Quote This sums it up perfectly. |
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you're going to try and tell me that the difference in the distance between the charging handle pulled fully to the rear and the bolt held behind the bolt release accounts for 10 percent of the chambering force?
that small change in difference plus the force the spring must now act on the charging handle it must now pull forward? use the bolt release, that's what it's for |
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So you have enough fine motor skill to hit the magazine release ... But not the bolt release?
Riiiiiiiiight OP - who taught this class? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Yet another golden tidbit of info from Arfcom. Thanks OP, I will be trying this out at the range next time.
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Quoted: No possibility at all the way I learned to do it. I understand the concerns people have, but in reality, they need not be concerned with most of the issues mentioned. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Bolt release. You could argue that the charging handle itself adds weight and friction to the forward motion of the bolt carrier group. No possibility at all the way I learned to do it. I understand the concerns people have, but in reality, they need not be concerned with most of the issues mentioned. |
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I just hit my buttstock on a hard surface to release the bolt and chamber rounds. It is a VERY gross motor skill.
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"FTMFW" Bonus points if you integrate it into IMT. "I'm up, he sees me, I'm down" - KA-THUNK - bang bang bang ~Augee View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I just hit my buttstock on a hard surface to release the bolt and chamber rounds. It is a VERY gross motor skill. "FTMFW" Bonus points if you integrate it into IMT. "I'm up, he sees me, I'm down" - KA-THUNK - bang bang bang ~Augee Haha right. Up-Armored vehicles wont dent if you use the side of them either. |
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I've been trained on and exclusively use the bolt release. It's ingrained in me to put in a mag, smack the floor plate and smack the bolt release.
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Quoted: True. But some of the few hang ups I've had with ARs were rounds that didn't go all the way into battery when using the bolt catch. CH works for me. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Charging handle. As far as I know, very few instructors teach it, but it works and once you're used to it, it's damned fast. Maybe. But it's physically impossible for it to be faster than slapping a bolt release in most situations for most people. True. But some of the few hang ups I've had with ARs were rounds that didn't go all the way into battery when using the bolt catch. CH works for me. THIS!
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you had to move your hand to put in a new mag View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Why not mention BAD levers? That's what I use primarily. Don't have to move either hand out of position. Agree with the 100% of buffer spring power idea, though. you had to move your hand to put in a new mag And my hand is then inches away from the bolt catch, and on the way to the handguard without moving AWAY from the handguard, and without my having to move the stock from my shoulder... You gotta move away from the handguard AND un-shoulder the rifle to get at the charging handle. |
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Been slapping the BR for 35 yrs on a reload
Rack the slide on da Grocks Dats how it is Dats how it's gonna stay |
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<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/njm1a/media/Mobile%20Uploads/45C5837A-A895-4231-A1F3-125C992EB9FA.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/njm1a/Mobile%20Uploads/45C5837A-A895-4231-A1F3-125C992EB9FA.jpg</a> The Badger latch just drops onto your current CH. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/713034/badger-ordnance-tactical-charging-handle-latch-ar-15-lr-308-matte Not issues with my CH with hundreds if not thousands of reloads using the CH. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I use the charging handle. More repetitions for when you need to use it to clear malfunctions. Isn't the purpose of having all these enlarged charging handles that everyone buys? I have been using badger CH for years now. The standard mil-spec charging handle is fine so long as you use it the way it was designed to be used and do not abuse it by using it to release the bolt. <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/njm1a/media/Mobile%20Uploads/45C5837A-A895-4231-A1F3-125C992EB9FA.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/njm1a/Mobile%20Uploads/45C5837A-A895-4231-A1F3-125C992EB9FA.jpg</a> The Badger latch just drops onto your current CH. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/713034/badger-ordnance-tactical-charging-handle-latch-ar-15-lr-308-matte Not issues with my CH with hundreds if not thousands of reloads using the CH. At first I thought WTF is that? So I looked at the URL and thought .... NFW .... I've never had an issue operating the charging handle on any M!6 when I was in the service under all kinds of conditions and see no need to have any unnecessary chunks of metal hanging off my firearms now. I guess it all depends on your training. Didn't have all these gee-whiz whixbang gadgets when I first trained and became very proficient on the M16, can't see using them now. Well OK we did have those 'clip on' brass deflectors for left handed shooters like myself. |
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I just slam my muzzle device into the nearest hard surface. Gives the BCG forward momentum and doesn't require any of those gosh darn fine motor skills.
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True. But some of the few hang ups I've had with ARs were rounds that didn't go all the way into battery when using the bolt catch. CH works for me. View Quote Don't blame the failure to go into full battery when using the bolt release on the bolt release. Sounds more like a weak buffer spring, or maybe a dirty weapon. The bolt release just released the bolt ... the spring puts it into battery and dirt can impede things a bit. |
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you're going to try and tell me that the difference in the distance between the charging handle pulled fully to the rear and the bolt held behind the bolt release accounts for 10 percent of the chambering force? that small change in difference plus the force the spring must now act on the charging handle it must now pull forward? use the bolt release, that's what it's for View Quote I think whoever said that is blowing some serious smoke. There is a video on the net where a guy talks about various buffer springs and has a stain gauge installed at the back of the buffer tube to measure pressure applied by the spring. I wish I had the URL for that video, I would post it. Like someone else said ....... " a solution looking for a problem to solve " |
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Quoted: Don't blame the failure to go into full battery when using the bolt release on the bolt release. Sounds more like a weak buffer spring, or maybe a dirty weapon. The bolt release just released the bolt ... the spring puts it into battery and dirt can impede things a bit. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: True. But some of the few hang ups I've had with ARs were rounds that didn't go all the way into battery when using the bolt catch. CH works for me. Don't blame the failure to go into full battery when using the bolt release on the bolt release. Sounds more like a weak buffer spring, or maybe a dirty weapon. The bolt release just released the bolt ... the spring puts it into battery and dirt can impede things a bit. thats exactly why you should use the CH - especially when the weapon is dirty Listen guys I was convinced that the bolt release is the way to go but I am now convinced otherwise This instructor has actually been in gun fights and did security work in Afghanistan where he said the weapons are always dirty/sandy He teaches this from his own experience and said he learned this from Jeff Gonzales from Trident Concepts For guys that use the bolt release on ARs but the slide stop on glocks - why? Why dont you just hit the slide release on handguns like you do on ARs? |
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I have a variety of handguns all with slide releases in different locations, therefore I just rack the slide because it works the exact same way no matter the slide release location. I use the bolt release on ARs because it's simple, fast, and doesn't require me to unshoulder the rifle. I've used AKs (for example) enough to instinctively reach for the charging handle and not a non-existent bolt release.
Just my .02 |
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At first I thought WTF is that? So I looked at the URL and thought .... NFW .... I've never had an issue operating the charging handle on any M!6 when I was in the service under all kinds of conditions and see no need to have any unnecessary chunks of metal hanging off my firearms now. I guess it all depends on your training. Didn't have all these gee-whiz whixbang gadgets when I first trained and became very proficient on the M16, can't see using them now. Well OK we did have those 'clip on' brass deflectors for left handed shooters like myself. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I use the charging handle. More repetitions for when you need to use it to clear malfunctions. Isn't the purpose of having all these enlarged charging handles that everyone buys? I have been using badger CH for years now. The standard mil-spec charging handle is fine so long as you use it the way it was designed to be used and do not abuse it by using it to release the bolt. <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/njm1a/media/Mobile%20Uploads/45C5837A-A895-4231-A1F3-125C992EB9FA.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/njm1a/Mobile%20Uploads/45C5837A-A895-4231-A1F3-125C992EB9FA.jpg</a> The Badger latch just drops onto your current CH. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/713034/badger-ordnance-tactical-charging-handle-latch-ar-15-lr-308-matte Not issues with my CH with hundreds if not thousands of reloads using the CH. At first I thought WTF is that? So I looked at the URL and thought .... NFW .... I've never had an issue operating the charging handle on any M!6 when I was in the service under all kinds of conditions and see no need to have any unnecessary chunks of metal hanging off my firearms now. I guess it all depends on your training. Didn't have all these gee-whiz whixbang gadgets when I first trained and became very proficient on the M16, can't see using them now. Well OK we did have those 'clip on' brass deflectors for left handed shooters like myself. Out with the old in with the new I love my gee-whizz whizbang ambidextrous mod 44 charging handles Rough 1 handed CH manipulation with rifle still in pocket of shoulder is where its at in a combat situation. the stock design puts all the pressure on the rollpin with 1 sided charging. Much quicker than the old standard rifle down 2 finger charge |
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I never slingshot. (Stupid term) I rack the slide or use the charging handle to charge.
Reload? Release. |
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you had to move your hand to put in a new mag View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Why not mention BAD levers? That's what I use primarily. Don't have to move either hand out of position. Agree with the 100% of buffer spring power idea, though. you had to move your hand to put in a new mag Right. |
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