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Posted: 7/28/2014 4:36:12 PM EDT
[#1]
I prefer lighter rifles. In your scenario I would defiantly pick the light AR that shot 2" groups. I don't think that 1" makes a whole lot of difference at the CQB-300 yard range.
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Posted: 7/28/2014 4:40:50 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I prefer lighter rifles. In your scenario I would defiantly pick the light AR that shot 2" groups. I don't think that 1" makes a whole lot of difference at the CQB-300 yard range. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 4:50:13 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Agreed, but what about the 1" difference out to 500? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I prefer lighter rifles. In your scenario I would defiantly pick the light AR that shot 2" groups. I don't think that 1" makes a whole lot of difference at the CQB-300 yard range. How often will we be shooting at 500 plus yards....probably not often. How often will the heavy rifle weight 10 pounds....all the time. There are always tradeoffs when choosing a rifle or components. If we are looking to make numerous long range shots, I would opt for a heavier precision rifle, but for all around work I will stick with a well built light rifle, I just think it performs at a satisfactory level in more situations. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 4:56:40 PM EDT
[#4]
For deer and man size, the lightweight.
For a benchrest shooting for dimes, the heavy. Since You don't need dime size groups and You are going to be carrying it around the heavy makes no sense, |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 5:55:52 PM EDT
[#5]
Different Tools in Different Configurations for Different Jobs.
The Beauty of the AR Platform is that it can be easily & quickly configured for whatever role you need. 
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Posted: 7/28/2014 5:56:35 PM EDT
[#6]
Get both.
Seriously. Do it now. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 6:04:20 PM EDT
[#7]
It depends on if you're in the peoples republic of Maryland..
It's all heavy barrels all the time up in this shitty state. FYI: they have effectively banned the purchase of all ARs except those with heavy target barrels, because those obviously can't be used in a crime because they're too heavy.. I'd go with the lighter gun, wind drift is more of an issue at 500 yards than anything and a heavy barrel isn't going to change that. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 6:15:05 PM EDT
[#8]
For real world shooting, getting a stable position and breaking good shots matters way lore than the accuracy of the rifle.
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Posted: 7/28/2014 7:18:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Light weight all day long for me.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/652658_Why_the_infatuation_with_the_HBar_.html 
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Posted: 7/29/2014 12:51:54 AM EDT
[#10]
I am surprised with poll. I thought forsure most people would pick accuracy over weight, cause lately thats what I see being talked about.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 1:14:22 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For deer and man size, the lightweight. For a benchrest shooting for dimes, the heavy. Since You don't need dime size groups and You are going to be carrying it around the heavy makes no sense, This right here. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 4:37:02 AM EDT
[#12]
Get a stainless steel 14.5" Noveske light weight contour and you'll have your 1MOA or better barrel. An accurate 8lb. rifle isnt hard to accomplish.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 5:59:23 AM EDT
[#13]
For accuracy I would go lightweight since the difference isn't really worth the extra weight. As a side note keep in mind that a heavier rifle will reduce recoil so you can shoot a little faster while still staying on target.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 6:08:36 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am surprised with poll. I thought forsure most people would pick accuracy over weight, cause lately thats what I see being talked about. the problem is your poll. it sucks, because it assumes a direct relationship between accuracy and weight. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 6:12:37 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Get a stainless steel 14.5" Noveske light weight contour and you'll have your 1MOA or better barrel. An accurate 8lb. rifle isnt hard to accomplish. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 6:13:33 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: the problem is your poll. it sucks, because it assumes a direct relationship between accuracy and weight. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I am surprised with poll. I thought forsure most people would pick accuracy over weight, cause lately thats what I see being talked about. the problem is your poll. it sucks, because it assumes a direct relationship between accuracy and weight. We can do another in GD. They should go nuts there. ETA: A few threads I read lately have people saying that a Heavy barrel is more accurate than a Light barrel with same ammo/shooter. Is that not true? |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 6:16:38 AM EDT
[#17]
If your willing to spend the money you could have a 7lb rifle that held 1MOA.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:20:59 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How would you word it then? We can do another in GD. They should go nuts there. ETA: A few threads I read lately have people saying that a Heavy barrel is more accurate than a Light barrel with same ammo/shooter. Is that not true? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I am surprised with poll. I thought forsure most people would pick accuracy over weight, cause lately thats what I see being talked about. the problem is your poll. it sucks, because it assumes a direct relationship between accuracy and weight. We can do another in GD. They should go nuts there. ETA: A few threads I read lately have people saying that a Heavy barrel is more accurate than a Light barrel with same ammo/shooter. Is that not true? No, the weight of the barrel does not make it more inherently accurate or consistent. In general, if ALL other controls are kept in line, and the barrel blank was made by a consistent manufacturer, with the profile being the ONLY difference, it is possible that the heavier profile barrel will be more accurate. This is simply because a thicker barrel has less barrel whip, and a thicker barrel heats up slower, and hence has less POI shift from a lighter weight barrel. These difference are QUITE small in reality, and would not be significantly measureable when shooting M193/M855 or other surplus/cheap ammunition. The quality of the bore, the rifling, the barrel blank material, the chamber and throat, and the crown will have a much more significant effect on accuracy. Therefore, it is entirely possible that you can purchase a match grade lightweight barrel, such as this one from JP http://jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPSM223-16L8 and it will absolutely outshoot a Model 1 sales heavy profile barrel in the same length. That above ASSUMES you are using match grade ammo or you reload and find the best ammunition combination for that specific barrel. There is no direct linear relationship to barrel thickness and accuracy. There are just too many factors. That's why the majority of people already know that they can easily find a light barrel that will shoot around 1MOA with match ammo, and 3MOA with surplus, and that is just fine and dandy for their needs. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:28:27 AM EDT
[#19]
Very well said. I hope everyone who think Heavier barrels are always more accurate than Light ones reads your post.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:30:54 AM EDT
[#20]
Pencil barrels can still do 1 MOA.
Take a look at LaRue's PredatAR's |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 9:29:29 AM EDT
[#21]
I had a LW barrel on my 222rem bolt action and it was a true sub MOA shooter.
Now I do like heavier barrels on rifles when shooting off rest , sand bags and such. I had a HBAR 14.7 that had mild recoil when compared to my Home Built 14.5 LMT/bushy ower So heavier barrel could be a good thing when using SBR like the M4 |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 9:43:10 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had a LW barrel on my 222rem bolt action and it was a true sub MOA shooter. Now I do like heavier barrels on rifles when shooting off rest , sand bags and such. I had a HBAR 14.7 that had mild recoil when compared to my Home Built 14.5 LMT/bushy ower So heavier barrel could be a good thing when using SBR like the M4 |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 9:46:17 AM EDT
[#23]
Since when do light weight barrels shave off a whole 3 pounds? That's my question.
I like heavier barrels because they don't heat up as fast. Then again, it all depends on the type of shooting you're doing. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 10:22:43 AM EDT
[#24]
I prefer my AR's to be light & simple.
I do have a mid length AR that weights more than my carbine length AR's. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 10:24:31 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Since when do light weight barrels shave off a whole 3 pounds? That's my question. I like heavier barrels because they don't heat up as fast. Then again, it all depends on the type of shooting you're doing. I am talking as a whole. Lets say the POI change is 1" between barrels. Would you still take the 3 lb. heavier AR15? ETA: Dont get me wrong I have nothing against Heavy ARs, but just wondering is all. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 11:05:32 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, the weight of the barrel does not make it more inherently accurate or consistent. In general, if ALL other controls are kept in line, and the barrel blank was made by a consistent manufacturer, with the profile being the ONLY difference, it is possible that the heavier profile barrel will be more accurate. This is simply because a thicker barrel has less barrel whip, and a thicker barrel heats up slower, and hence has less POI shift from a lighter weight barrel. These difference are QUITE small in reality, and would not be significantly measureable when shooting M193/M855 or other surplus/cheap ammunition. The quality of the bore, the rifling, the barrel blank material, the chamber and throat, and the crown will have a much more significant effect on accuracy. Therefore, it is entirely possible that you can purchase a match grade lightweight barrel, such as this one from JP http://jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPSM223-16L8 and it will absolutely outshoot a Model 1 sales heavy profile barrel in the same length. That above ASSUMES you are using match grade ammo or you reload and find the best ammunition combination for that specific barrel. There is no direct linear relationship to barrel thickness and accuracy. There are just too many factors. That's why the majority of people already know that they can easily find a light barrel that will shoot around 1MOA with match ammo, and 3MOA with surplus, and that is just fine and dandy for their needs. Excellent & Informative post! Quoted For Truth! |
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Posted: 7/30/2014 5:32:52 AM EDT
[#27]
Any other comments?
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Posted: 7/30/2014 5:58:56 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With all these hybrid comps now weight and recoil reduction will be a thing of the past imo. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I had a LW barrel on my 222rem bolt action and it was a true sub MOA shooter. Now I do like heavier barrels on rifles when shooting off rest , sand bags and such. I had a HBAR 14.7 that had mild recoil when compared to my Home Built 14.5 LMT/bushy ower So heavier barrel could be a good thing when using SBR like the M4 I use the Flash hiders only. I like both lite and med to heavy profile barrels depending on mission. |
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Posted: 7/30/2014 6:10:31 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How often will we be shooting at 500 plus yards....probably not often. How often will the heavy rifle weight 10 pounds....all the time. There are always tradeoffs when choosing a rifle or components. If we are looking to make numerous long range shots, I would opt for a heavier precision rifle, but for all around work I will stick with a well built light rifle, I just think it performs at a satisfactory level in more situations. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I prefer lighter rifles. In your scenario I would defiantly pick the light AR that shot 2" groups. I don't think that 1" makes a whole lot of difference at the CQB-300 yard range. How often will we be shooting at 500 plus yards....probably not often. How often will the heavy rifle weight 10 pounds....all the time. There are always tradeoffs when choosing a rifle or components. If we are looking to make numerous long range shots, I would opt for a heavier precision rifle, but for all around work I will stick with a well built light rifle, I just think it performs at a satisfactory level in more situations. This. 2 MOA is still more than good enough to hit mansized targets at well over 500 yards. Also, the weight of the barrel doesn't even mechanically affect accuracy as much as you might think. The quality of how the barrel is made matters much more. The only inherent accuracy benefits you'll gain from pure weight alone are a more stable platform when benched as the weight will prevent the rifle from moving around quite as much (which can mostly be negated by proper shooting form anyway), and increased accuracy for rapid or sustained fire as the heavier barrel will be slower to heat up. A one pound difference is huge when you're lugging something around all day, nevermind three lbs. How is your AR15 that heavy? A full size 20" Colt HBAR weighs ~ 8.75 lbs, and that is a full pound heavier than a standard GI barrel M16A2. |
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Posted: 7/30/2014 11:22:09 AM EDT
[#30]
Depends on the rifle. I would say I'd rather have a rifle weight 3 lbs less and shoot 1 less moa....but on my WOA or AR10 builds(both weigh like 15lbs) I'd bolt them down to a table to get any additional accuracy.
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Posted: 7/30/2014 11:51:40 AM EDT
[#31]
Eugene designed the AR to be L I G H T. He knew more than all the AR parts merchants that have come since.
Build an AR for light weight.
Get an M1A if long range accuracy is your goal 
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Posted: 7/30/2014 2:25:31 PM EDT
[#32]
Guess it depends on what you're doing with it. It's very difficult to get a 7 lbs gun to do what a 10 lbs gun can do. Would love to see a rifle at or near 7 lb with an IR laser (for NV), white/IR light, magnified optic, suppressor and a full mag. I hunt with my AR configured this way and if the S really HTF I wouldn't want anything less.
trying to trim weight is great, I ditched all my heavy barrels, but the weight is gonna add up if you plan to be properly equipped. There's a reason our SOF guys are built and conditioned the way they are. |
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Posted: 7/30/2014 8:43:47 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Guess it depends on what you're doing with it. It's very difficult to get a 7 lbs gun to do what a 10 lbs gun can do. Would love to see a rifle at or near 7 lb with an IR laser (for NV), white/IR light, magnified optic, suppressor and a full mag. I hunt with my AR configured this way and if the S really HTF I wouldn't want anything less. trying to trim weight is great, I ditched all my heavy barrels, but the weight is gonna add up if you plan to be properly equipped. There's a reason our SOF guys are built and conditioned the way they are. |
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Posted: 7/31/2014 7:28:58 AM EDT
[#34]
I have both. Totally depends on what you want the gun for.
I would never carry my range rifle on any kind of hike. but then again I don't expect sub 1/2" groups from my shtf gun either. Now for those that claim a pencil barrel or lightweight barrel will hang with the bull barrel match guns. Just go to any benchrest competiton 100 yrd out to a thousand and see how many pencil barrels you see. reality is 1" groups at a hundred yds is plenty good for the average shooter but that is a long way from what you would call an accurate rifle. |
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Posted: 7/31/2014 11:05:57 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For deer and man size, the lightweight. For a benchrest shooting for dimes, the heavy. Since You don't need dime size groups and You are going to be carrying it around the heavy makes no sense, Well said and I feel the same way. I shoot my 14.5" barreled lightweight KISS rifles a lot more than my Recce... If I were to deer hunt again it would be with the lightweights... |
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Posted: 7/31/2014 3:38:50 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have both. Totally depends on what you want the gun for. I would never carry my range rifle on any kind of hike. but then again I don't expect sub 1/2" groups from my shtf gun either. Now for those that claim a pencil barrel or lightweight barrel will hang with the bull barrel match guns. Just go to any benchrest competiton 100 yrd out to a thousand and see how many pencil barrels you see. reality is 1" groups at a hundred yds is plenty good for the average shooter but that is a long way from what you would call an accurate rifle. |
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Posted: 7/31/2014 4:18:19 PM EDT
[#37]
I don't even like shooting coyotes past 250 yards with a .223/5.56 because the effectiveness is so pathetic compared to other better suited calibers. If I'm going to be shooting at anything other than paper or steel at 500, given the choice it will be with something better suited for the task. I'd go lighter and enjoy humping less weight and use for closer range vs. the minute increase in accuracy only to have energy a little over 300 ftlbs and smallest breath of wind blowing bullet into next zip code at 500+. I doubt you will notice much advantage with 1" better rifle unless conditions were perfect and you were a highly capable marksman. JMO
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Posted: 7/31/2014 4:20:53 PM EDT
[#38]
What makes you think you'd see that big of difference in accuracy?
LW ftw. |
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Posted: 7/31/2014 4:22:58 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Eugene designed the AR to be L I G H T. He knew more than all the AR parts merchants that have come since.
Build an AR for light weight.
Get an M1A if long range accuracy is your goal Build a bolt gun if you want accuracy. Out of the box m1a's aren't that accurate. |
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Posted: 7/31/2014 4:25:17 PM EDT
[#40]
I have a Hbar middy that weights more than a gov pro 20 inch. I don't notice any difference at 200. |
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Posted: 7/31/2014 4:30:39 PM EDT
[#41]
Isn't the answer always both?
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Posted: 8/4/2014 7:46:12 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't even like shooting coyotes past 250 yards with a .223/5.56 because the effectiveness is so pathetic compared to other better suited calibers. If I'm going to be shooting at anything other than paper or steel at 500, given the choice it will be with something better suited for the task. I'd go lighter and enjoy humping less weight and use for closer range vs. the minute increase in accuracy only to have energy a little over 300 ftlbs and smallest breath of wind blowing bullet into next zip code at 500+. I doubt you will notice much advantage with 1" better rifle unless conditions were perfect and you were a highly capable marksman. JMO |
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Posted: 8/5/2014 5:30:18 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Serioulsy 1" groups is not considered accurate? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have both. Totally depends on what you want the gun for. I would never carry my range rifle on any kind of hike. but then again I don't expect sub 1/2" groups from my shtf gun either. Now for those that claim a pencil barrel or lightweight barrel will hang with the bull barrel match guns. Just go to any benchrest competiton 100 yrd out to a thousand and see how many pencil barrels you see. reality is 1" groups at a hundred yds is plenty good for the average shooter but that is a long way from what you would call an accurate rifle. I know. I want and can do much better than 1 MOA and have the gear to do it. But I would say 1 MOA is still a standard. |
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