I'm looking to build a heavy barreled 16" rifle. The idea is to have an MOA capable rifle that keeps the weight down. I will most likely run a KMR, and the lightest 1-4 optic I can find. My questions is: do you guys running these rifles keep a bipod on it? I use atlas bipods and prefer not to have to mount a rail section as I like the look of the bare KMR. I see the bipod as added weight and bulk as well. Regardless, I plan to run a precision rifle sling, and am confident in my ability to shoot MOA with just the sling. I will be using this sling:

https://www.riflesonly.com/pro-shop/the-ftw-sling.html

So basically, do other people bother with a bipod for this kind of rifle?

No, absolutely not. My main goal with my recce was light weight accuracy. It's all free hand, haha! :)

If you were gonna run a bipod I would do one of those foregrip/bipod combo deals. I don't like those though. I would just go with a smooth light ff rail, and keep weight as low as possible.

No bipod.

I always put a small rail section on all my guns in front regardless of length for using a bipod for zeroing purposes, but I don't keep the bipod on anything.

Me too......and me either.



 

QD bipods are handy

Yes. I do. I run a Harris bipod on a ADM quick detach mount so I can take it off in a couple seconds when I don't need it.

ETA: Photo

I suppose running a short rail wouldn't be a terrible idea. I already have an Atlas on a ADM on another rifle. I do like the clean look of a railless KMR though.

A Recce should have the ability to mount a bipod, IMO. A small rail section on your KMR for use with your Atlas would be perfect. The Noveske NSR 4 slot is the perfect size for the ADM mount.

I guess my way of doing this is outdated, but I have a KAC bipod adapter that I just leave on the rifle, and put on a Harris bipod when I want to use it.

(Old pic)

I use a Harris bipod and simply use the standard Harris mount with a standard bipod stud on my MI SSG2 rail.  It's plenty fast enough to take on and off easily, lightweight, and takes up the least rail estate.  And, looks great as the two pieces fit well.

</a>" />
" />

It's ugly, and not en vogue around here (because of the way it looks) but a grip pod is light, cheap, versatile and easily mounted/dismounted. Photo commandos will poo-poo it though.

Good point, I think I also have one collecting dust around here.

To answer your question, yes.  

And, that kind of talk will get your name on the "wall of claim".











 

1MOA with just a sling. Good luck with that!

Challenge Accepted! Will go to range tomorrow. I bet my Average will actually be closer to 1.25-1.50 in all honesty, but I can get at least one group sub-MOA.

My cherry picked best group from sling, I can't do this every time:

I run a bipod on mine.  If you're shooting groups, it is recommended to load the bipod a bit.  

Free-recoiling on a bipod had caused my groups to increase to 1.5" when they could have been .75" or better if I did my part.

Agree 100%. I always preload. I can sometimes get away with not doing it with a bolt gun, but with a semi where consistent recoil is more important, I always do.

Bi-pods yes, but screw the heavy barrel. You don't need that. Gov't profile will serve you just fine. Add your favorite suppressor mount, good glass, a FF rail, SOPMOD, good trigger, spray paint that shit, and it's party-time.

In for the video of the guy shooting sub-MOA with a sling and irons.

You are not alone.



 

I'm not the best shot by any means, but if I could shoot 3moa freehand I would crap my pants with happiness.

http://www.shopnoveske.com/products/trx-sling-stud-bi-pod-mount

Whoa, won't be able to do it with irons on the AR. Rail mounted irons + sling tension = sadface. That picture was done with match M1a.

But I am willing to take the challenge, even if I fail. Getting the rifles ready tonight:



I assume I will not be allowed a shooting jacket? How about a shirt like this:
http://store.rwvaappleseed.com/product51.html

It's hot and humid out and that'll at least help keep my elbows from slipping.

I'm actually quite excited to try this. Trying to figure out how to video this.

ETA: Wife is going to be PISSED if she finds out my shooting mat that has been dragged around in all sorts of crap was set like that on her side of the bed.

No not offhand. I can't do 3 MOA offhand. I was referring to prone with sling. Much better shooters than I can hold sub-MOA like this. With that being said, the advantages of shooting aids like bipods come in handy in these situations. When hunting or doing other types of "real world" shooting, you can't always go prone and take a perfect shot. Sometimes it's advantageous to jam a bipod leg into a tree.

I was under the impression you were shooting standing with a just a sling, my bad. I'd be interested even if you're using your SWFA but shooting jackets and whatever don't interest me. You do get points for not being afraid to fail. What barrel do you have on your AR and what load are you shooting?

I did but my offhand accuracy suffered due to the fatigue of my support arm. I ended up taking my Atlas off and selling it. The rifle is way more handier but I can really think of some times where it could come in handy... too bad it got freakin' lost when shipping.

you can definitely get small groups with a sling but getting set-up takes longer. For field use I would go with a bipod for quicker shots.


With


Without

Since you're going all out, may as well follow the rules.



 

Lol, standing is one of my better positions, but I can't come close to MOA with it.

I won't wear a full on jacket, but at least need something long sleeved. I feel like that's not unreasonable if shooting in the field.

The load is a little bit concerning, I have plenty of FGMM 168 for the M1a, so I'm good there.

The AR could be problematic. I usually use RL 15 and 69 SMK, but I don't have any loaded up and I don't have time to load before tomorrow. I do have Geco .223 that shoots about MOA with this rifle. I also have some issued Mk294 Mod 0, but I've never used a moly coated bullet in this barrel before. I'll probably decide on the spot. The barrel is an 18" Douglas SPR by CLE. It's not a bad barrel, but not spectacular either. It shoots a lot of loads "well", but nothing "great". Nothing against CLE, I notice when cleaning the bore there are inconsistencies in bore diameter due to inconsistent pressure required to push a patch through.

MK 294 mod 0:

That really sucked. I still have the envelope unopened if you need that for your claim. Will be happy to send that to you.

Well see what you can do with your AR. I hear you on the barrel. I've got a few Noveske barrels that shoot really well but nothing close to the Krieger barrel on my .308 bolt-action. Been working on a 75gr BTHP/23gr H335 that looks promising but I just don't know if an AR can ever satisfy my accuracy goals. IDK, time will tell.

Good luck!

Been there, it's frustrating. You'll find a load that'll put out a .25 MOA group and think you've found it. Next day same load shoots some .50 MOA and some 1.5 MOA. When I look for a load for an AR (or any semi), I go with what gives me the most consistent group sizes as opposed to the one that gives me the smallest groups occasionally.

Oh crap!! I didn't realize you were the OP! It's all good I haven't heard back from USPS yet.

What size groups do you typically get with your noveske afghan barreled ar?

This. Although my bipod stays close in my small pack I always shoot with, just like binos, water, mags, etc.

My lightweight contour actually shoots better than my Afghan. Both will shoot 1MOA maybe a little better with all the stars aligned. I have expectations that my LW will do .5MOA or better once I get my load right. I shot a 10 shot group over the weekend where 6 of the shots could be covered by a dime, the other four were outside the 1 inch circle I was shooting at. I'm new to reloading so hopefully I can gain some accuracy there. I'm also using a NF 1-4x FC-2 which probably isn't the best for testing loads. I'm going to get a F1 for it in a couple weeks. I was originally planning on pulling my NXS 5.5-22x of my bolt-action but I don't want to mess with a good thing.

Yes, those of us who are not the mighty marksmen you claim to be do bother with a bipod. I will throw admiration your way once I see those MOA groups, but even then I'll bet I can deploy my bipod faster than you can sling up under high-stress conditions.

That is a good point, when on the ground, a bipod is definitely quicker. The issue is, how many times when hunting, or shooting anywhere other than a range, do you shoot from a stable prone or benchrest position? Not a rhetorical question, I'd actually like to know.

I never claimed to be a great shot, just experienced using a sling as support. I bet if you tried it, you'd be surprised by how well you do. I challenge you to go to an appleseed shoot and see how you do with a sling. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

My Recce build was to be accurate with a focus on weight savings. I don't use a bi-pod. I can see why some would but it would add too much front weight for my liking.

I say dump the railed forearm altogether and use sandbags/backpack for zeroing that saves lots of weight & coin

You mean like the Turner National Match sling on my M1A, or maybe the match sling on my Winchester 75 Target Model when I was shooting rimfire matches in the early 1960's?

No need to re-invent the wheel here.

My apologies then. I did not mean to be facetious, but can see how I can be interpreted as such. Unlike you though, I have met tons of shooters that don't understand how to shoot with a sling and can't see how others do it.

So I went to the range today. 100 rounds fired, 80 from sling so I am worn the fuck out. My left arm is still tingling.

I went by the LGS today to see if they had factory match ammo to use as a control. I ended up buying a box of Federal Gold Medal Match 69gr for $42.

I shot them off benchrest to baseline what the rifle can do.

As you can see, not terribly impressive. Geco .223 is what I used for shooting from sling, and from past experience, it's just as accurate. I can not claim ammo as a handicap here, the Geco shoots great out of this rifle especially for 55gr fmj.

My procedure was: Get into position, fire a 5 round group, load another mag of 5 and fire for a total of 20 rounds per string. I rested for about a minute between groups, and did not get out of position between groups within a string. I waited 5-10 minutes between strings. I used the rifles only FTW sling for the AR, and a Turner NM sling for the M1a. No bags or supports of any kind on the rifle.

My first string of 20 was with the AR, and that was spent mostly getting used to the FTW sling. Unfortunately I forgot to take it down, and stapled subsequent targets over it. Groups were around 1.5 MOA, and I did better in the second string out of the AR, which I saved.

Second 20 round string from sling. Ammo was Geco .223:


Would have been a great string if it weren't for my last group. I was just tired at this point. Maybe I'm just a pussy, but even on the 20 round slow fire stages of a high power match, I'm pretty tired by the end of it. The high one on that group was a called bad shot, broke the trigger at the wrong moment. The disastrous low shot in that group I did not call. Probably flexed my left arm, or did something wrong along that lines.

Mini gear review: The Rifles Only FTW sling worked very well in making an accurate shot. Getting into position with it was easy, but for whatever reason, it wasn't quite as comfortable as a Turner NM. By the end of the 40 shots, I was worn out.

I shot the M1a next. I'm much more familiar with shooting this rifle from this position, and was a little disappointed with the results. I need to get my fat ass up and work out more so I don't get tired from shooting so quickly.

Called the low shot on the second to last group. Nothing I can do about that except suck less. Second group almost MOA.

The next string wasn't great either:

Notice the ridiculous horizontal dispersion on my last group. 100% me and my trigger pull. I was ready to be done at this point.

Picture from the range:

Temp was 95 when I got to the range, but it dropped nicely to mid-low 80s throughout shooting.

So I am eating my crow, but it is delicious as I had a great time trying. I will try again in the future, and only do 20 rounds at a time instead of 80. I think I can do better with the M1a.

With that being said, I think I will run a short rail section for my atlas for my future Recce build.

No worries my friend, good shooting nonetheless. Try it again when it gets a little cooler. Personally, I'd hang a hammock between benches, crack a cold one and take a nap.

Will do. Personally, in the summer I'd rather be fishing.