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Posted: 2/10/2017 8:02:37 PM EDT
[#1]
nice work! nothing like free weight savings, plus it adds a little personal touch to the rifle.
I got my gen 2 moe-k down to 1.5oz. I just got my hands on a gen 1 moe-k, so hopefully the same mods I can get down to 1.2oz |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/10/2017 8:38:00 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jekbrown:
yeah, I'm going to try something along those lines with a gen 2 K grip. Prolly cerakote it when done so it's pretty.  I got the Gen 2 K grip down to 2.0oz as well but its much thinner to start with so its not like you can go hogging out the inside of it. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/10/2017 8:45:09 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jwood562:
nice work! nothing like free weight savings, plus it adds a little personal touch to the rifle. I got my gen 2 moe-k down to 1.5oz. I just got my hands on a gen 1 moe-k, so hopefully the same mods I can get down to 1.2oz Awesome, any pictures? |
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Posted: 2/10/2017 9:37:30 PM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 2/10/2017 9:45:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jekbrown]
[#5]
indeed...pics or it didn't happen!
Edit: scooped. 
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Posted: 2/11/2017 3:03:15 AM EDT
[#6]
I am waiting on my spikes battle enhanced trigger to arrive from AIM.... however the USPS screwed me again by getting the priority packaged delayed
When that arrives I will rebuild my complete lower with all weights and specs. If I post parts and weights here that are not already on the spreadsheet will they get added? Have we already thought about a lightweight parts sale thread? IS it possible to make a sale thread and keep it here under AR discussions per the forum rules/guidelines? |
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Posted: 2/11/2017 4:09:34 AM EDT
[#7]
Yes, any / all weights in this thread are added to the PWD, the only exception is when not enough data is posted for it to be useful (eg "Seekins carbine rail, 6oz..." OK, which model?!)...Or operator error on my part. I have been pretty consumed with filling out the expanded data fields recently, so that kind of thing may cause some delays.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 2/11/2017 4:30:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: larrys]
[#8]
I much prefer beaver tail type grips. I ordered a Tactical Link PDW grip and so far it looks like I'm going to like it.
It fits my lower with no gaps and weighs 2.1 oz. per manufacturer Edit to add; I think someone had asked the Elf 3 gun trigger weight somewhere. According to my scale it's 59 grams (2.08oz) this is the straight STD pin model. That includes bottom plate and lock set screws which were 3 grams alone. I suppose you could leave those off for a small weight loss. |
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Posted: 2/11/2017 12:14:09 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By larrys:
I much prefer beaver tail type grips. I ordered a Tactical Link PDW grip and so far it looks like I'm going to like it. It fits my lower with no gaps and weighs 2.1 oz. thats a good looking grip, I also like the aggressive angle of it |
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Posted: 2/11/2017 6:05:31 PM EDT
[#10]
Ok, just did some changes to my lower and weighed some parts for the master list that I did not see on there yet. I also tested out some polymer LPK and have some of my thoughts on those as well.
Lower as she sits now Balios lite lower NF polymer take down and pivot pins (2.36g) V7 ultra lite bolt catch V7 titanium mag catch with CA compliant bullet button NF polymer safety (2.98g) V7 titanium trigger and hammer pins V7 titanium grip screw and washer V7 titanium buffer retainer Magpul Moe-k version 2 modified Smoke Composite CF carbine stock, closed version Smoke Composite aluminum castle nut (6.00g) Tubbs lightweight flatwire spring (34.19g) Tac Com ultralite modified buffer Spikes Enhanced battle trigger with springs JP speed hammer (19.97g) 16.65oz or 473g Now just a couple thoughts on the build. I bought a NF poly LPK just to test it out. I definitely did not feel comfortable running the poly FCG, it just felt cheap. I feel OK using the poly take down and pivot pins. I feel they should hold up and do not look plastic when you look at the rifle. I will test out the polymer mag catch as soon as I can find the tool to remove my bullet button. I did install the poly safety but I will probably switch back to the V7 hybrid, the safety is mushy and doesn't give that "snap" when engages or dis-engages, plus looks a little cheap and out of place on my build. I did have a Smoke Composites CF endplate (1.9g) on the build but just deleted as the lower is tapped for the 4-40 set screw mod. I cannot wait to try out the JP speed hammer on the Spikes enhanced battle trigger combo. I modified the TAC COM ultra lite buffer but I would rather run a lightened carbine buffer like a user here did some machine work on. As a complete rifle with Bobro low rider sights I am at 56.95 oz, just under an ounce of my goal weight of 3.5lbs This has been a fun build and I hope to have it completed soon. please let me know if you guys want to see an specific aspect of the build or parts |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/11/2017 7:05:38 PM EDT
[#11]
What weight did you get your modified tacom buffer down to?
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Posted: 2/11/2017 7:36:06 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JerDerv:
What weight did you get your modified tacom buffer down to? Just off the top of my head it was .6 oz I will weigh it when I get back home. I just hollowed it out. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/13/2017 6:07:12 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DekNgo:
I just ordered the polymer version of the Shield (SMS) with risers and mount. I'll get a weight once they arrive (coming from England, so it will have to clear customs). Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DekNgo:
Originally Posted By Jwood562:
I'm finally ready for an optic or sights for my ultra light build. Took off my RMR with larue mount. I have looked at the spread sheet and have a couple questions. The shield rds leads the way at 0.5oz but how much do the risers and mount weigh? I have never heard of the MFT folding sights, any cons to them? Pros? I thought I was good on getting the bobro low riders at 1.7oz for the pair but if there is a lighter and good alternative I am all ears. I am trying to get the gun in at 3.5lbs with optics. Almost there I just ordered the polymer version of the Shield (SMS) with risers and mount. I'll get a weight once they arrive (coming from England, so it will have to clear customs). I just got the Shield SMS and mount. Even though the mount is polymer, it looks and feels very well made and sturdy. Only time will tell how it holds up, but Shield has a good reputation from everything I've read... Shield SMS sight with battery: 0.4oz / 12g (measured with my postal scale) Shield GFN Picatinny Moulded Mount with spacers and screws needed for AR height: 1oz / 28g (measured with my postal scale) |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 10:48:01 AM EDT
[#14]
awesome, thanks for the weights. They've been added. It's to bad the pic rail mount is as heavy as it is, considering it's polymer and Shield's 'skills' when it comes to keeping weight down. I was hoping it would be sub-1oz, like the BAD MRO mount. Still, it's still the front runner for my lightweight build optic. Let us know how it performs!
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CA, USA
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Posted: 2/13/2017 3:39:30 PM EDT
[#15]
Spendy, but worth every penny.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/13/2017 4:10:59 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryIs that the Scalarworks (not sure I'm spelling that right) mount? |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 2/13/2017 4:31:40 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hfrog355:
Is that the Scalarworks (not sure I'm spelling that right) mount? Yep, and according to my scale, the mount and RMR weigh approximately 71g, or 2.5oz. More importantly, the mount is rock-solid, and the QD system is nothing short of amazing. I think I'm going to replace a few Larue mounts on my Aimpoint and MRO with these. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 4:38:24 PM EDT
[#18]
looks like it. Cool, but way to much $ for my blood. I spend a lot of $ on guns, but I can't bring myself to spend $ on a Trijicon...or a $150 mount for a Trijicon.
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CA, USA
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Posted: 2/13/2017 5:55:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SOCOM76]
[#19]
I hear ya, but the common theme I see among lightweight rifles is 5-7 ounces of an MRO, Aimpoint or likewise optic (with mount), which somewhat defeats the purpose of the lightweight theme, and the same sort of applies to having a lighter, less expensive optic that looks completely out of place on a lightweight rifle. Unless you're taking a standard rifle and drilling holes in everything, light lightweight rifles, or the parts to build lightweight rifles are inherently expensive. That said, seeing a $250 optic on a $2,000 rifle doesn't make much sense to me, but that's just my opinion, which is completely subjective, and counts for diddly squat.
Buy once, cry once is my motto, but I don't think what I paid was too-too expensive. I paid $500 for the RMR, and $149 for the mount, which is what Scalarworks charges for their bundle packages, but theirs comes with the 3moa RM06, and I wanted the 1moa RM09, so that's why I purchased them separately. Anyway, this will sit atop a BLR-16. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 6:18:12 PM EDT
[#20]
this is swerving off topic, and too each their own of course, but if it's magnifying glass I sometimes spend the big bucks, but for 1x red dots I get more penny pincher style, unless it's my actual go to SHTF rifle.
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/13/2017 11:16:04 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SOCOM76:
I hear ya, but the common theme I see among lightweight rifles is 5-7 ounces of an MRO, Aimpoint or likewise optic (with mount), which somewhat defeats the purpose of the lightweight theme, and the same sort of applies to having a lighter, less expensive optic that looks completely out of place on a lightweight rifle. Unless you're taking a standard rifle and drilling holes in everything, light lightweight rifles, or the parts to build lightweight rifles are inherently expensive. That said, seeing a $250 optic on a $2,000 rifle doesn't make much sense to me, but that's just my opinion, which is completely subjective, and counts for diddly squat. Buy once, cry once is my motto, but I don't think what I paid was too-too expensive. I paid $500 for the RMR, and $149 for the mount, which is what Scalarworks charges for their bundle packages, but theirs comes with the 3moa RM06, and I wanted the 1moa RM09, so that's why I purchased them separately. Anyway, this will sit atop a BLR-16. Makes sense to me, pictures of it on your blr please! :) |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/14/2017 10:37:17 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SOCOM76:
I hear ya, but the common theme I see among lightweight rifles is 5-7 ounces of an MRO, Aimpoint or likewise optic (with mount), which somewhat defeats the purpose of the lightweight theme, and the same sort of applies to having a lighter, less expensive optic that looks completely out of place on a lightweight rifle. Unless you're taking a standard rifle and drilling holes in everything, light lightweight rifles, or the parts to build lightweight rifles are inherently expensive. That said, seeing a $250 optic on a $2,000 rifle doesn't make much sense to me, but that's just my opinion, which is completely subjective, and counts for diddly squat. Buy once, cry once is my motto, but I don't think what I paid was too-too expensive. I paid $500 for the RMR, and $149 for the mount, which is what Scalarworks charges for their bundle packages, but theirs comes with the 3moa RM06, and I wanted the 1moa RM09, so that's why I purchased them separately. Anyway, this will sit atop a BLR-16. Nice. I want to move that direction when the war chest gets replenished. Those Scalarworks mounts look awesome. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 2/14/2017 12:17:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: OregonFeralDog]
[#23]
i sure like those mods to the Ergo Swift grip. i wondered if the same mods would be possible for their grippier FlatTop grip but was concerned it might weight too much due to the overmold.
so i contacted Ergo for the actual weight. they immediately wrote back and weighed it for me. it came in at 2.7 ounce here a link and pix (its currently on sale with free shipping so i ordered one): Flat Top Grip - Suregrip SKU: 4014-bk-cybersale 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/16/2017 5:21:32 PM EDT
[#24]
Just got all the parts in too finish this LW build. Listing the weights of everything my scale will weigh. Magpul K PLUS grip 3.13, Minimalist stock 5.98, Aim Surplus LW nitride BCG 8.79, Axis Rapture CH 1.37, SLR ION ULTRALIGHT 13.7 " rail 10.39 with hardware, Kaiser Arms poly upper/lower combo with poly dust cover added by Kaiser 11.31, Faxon 14.5 pinned and welded with mini comp 21.74, BCM buffer assembly 9.78, Right to Bear arms and supply .625 gas block with mid-length gas tube 2.3, RR Nation Match 4.5 LPK 5.04. The total comes too 79.83 before completion. So if my little scale is correct, this should weigh 4.99 lbs. Got the 13.7 SLR ION ULTRA LW rail , Magpul grip, RR 4.5 NM LPK and the Faxon barrel at Right to Bear Arms and Supply at a really good price. Bought the Kaiser right over the phone with Mike, the owner of Kaiser Arms and he guaranteed I could rap out as many rounds as I wanted too with little or no lube as long as I use NIB, Titanium, Or a nickel Teflon BCG. We shall see real soon. Will post the finish product ASAP!!!
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/16/2017 6:10:45 PM EDT
[#25]
Sorry for the extreme delay. We're working on it this week finally. I'm at the mercy of my friend's clients. They come first since they pay his bills!
The 7075 barrel nut we did for the NSR came it at about 23grams so the KMR nut should be lighter even without any extra cuts, which I am NOT pushing for. I'm hoping it should come in at about 20grams, maybe a touch lighter, not sure yet. Hoping to finally start running them next week as the CNC lathe is supposed to be free. Again, I really appreciate everyone's patience on these as this is just a project to help out the lightweight community as we have day jobs and this is NOT a business. Please, if you are interested in one or more of these barrel nuts, don't hesitate to shoot me an email! stitch |
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Posted: 2/16/2017 6:26:19 PM EDT
[#26]
Faxon has updated the spreadsheet for our product line.
Thank you for the opportunity to contribute! -Nathan |
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Posted: 2/16/2017 7:58:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jekbrown]
[#27]
niiiice, thanks amigo.
***edit*** wait a second, what's the weight for: "16" Legal, SLIM Perm Flash Hider, 14.5" PENCIL, 5.56 NATO, Mid-Length, 4150 QPQ Nitride"? there's no weight listed or a "TBD"... Also, are you the one that left the database sorted by manufacturer? I suppose I'll let it slide, but just this once.
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CA, USA
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Posted: 2/16/2017 9:29:32 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jekbrown:
niiiice, thanks amigo.
***edit*** wait a second, what's the weight for: "16" Legal, SLIM Perm Flash Hider, 14.5" PENCIL, 5.56 NATO, Mid-Length, 4150 QPQ Nitride"? there's no weight listed or a "TBD"... Also, are you the one that left the database sorted by manufacturer? I suppose I'll let it slide, but just this once. My Faxon 14.5 pencil w/slim perm attach comp weighs 19.42 oz. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/16/2017 10:19:52 PM EDT
[#29]
Here's the finished product with the exception of, I put a BCM stock but it still came in at 5lbs even. Went out and popped 5 rounds off and it worked flawlessly.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/16/2017 10:22:14 PM EDT
[#30]
I should've mentioned I have the Gunner which weighs a tad bit more.
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Posted: 2/17/2017 3:20:17 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CustomBuilder:
My Faxon 14.5 pencil w/slim perm attach comp weighs 19.42 oz. Now that's some timely data! Thanks amigo! |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 9:15:54 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jekbrown:
niiiice, thanks amigo.
***edit*** wait a second, what's the weight for: "16" Legal, SLIM Perm Flash Hider, 14.5" PENCIL, 5.56 NATO, Mid-Length, 4150 QPQ Nitride"? there's no weight listed or a "TBD"... Also, are you the one that left the database sorted by manufacturer? I suppose I'll let it slide, but just this once. Yes, it was hard to find our products, so I had to enter in the data for over 100 products! |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 12:15:35 PM EDT
[#33]
np, I often do that myself when I'm doing a session of data entry. I just 'put it back' when I'm done. I'm just bustin' your chops, I really appreciate that you took the time to add the data. I've had 3 'levels' of responses from businesses when it comes to the PWD: being totally ignored, some data being provided, and Faxon that not only provided a shit ton of data but entered it themselves! If only more companies would behave this way the database would probably be done already, lol. It's all good. The major rail upgrade is in process. Once that's done I can move on to some of the smaller items. All the 'big stuff' will be sufficiently 'done' that it's just a matter of adding new products when they come out.
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Posted: 2/17/2017 1:25:02 PM EDT
[#34]
anyone have a weight on the mounting hardware (bbl nut, clamp blocks, index plate, screws etc.) kit for the KMR? I'm trying to put down an accurate weight for the rails from Bootleg...which uses KMR hardware but excludes those parts from their state weights...
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2017 2:02:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JerDerv]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jekbrown:
anyone have a weight on the mounting hardware (bbl nut, clamp blocks, index plate, screws etc.) kit for the KMR? I'm trying to put down an accurate weight for the rails from Bootleg...which uses KMR hardware but excludes those parts from their state weights... I think this had what you are looking for. Parts weight Spreadsheet |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 3:15:03 PM EDT
[#36]
I suppose this is proof that I don't have all the fields memorized, lol. I figured we had the bbl nut weight, but didn't think we had the other associated hardware. So 2.65oz for allll the mounting hardware (steel)? Heavier than I thought it would be. One the other hand, that's what Ti and Al are for I suppose!
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CA, USA
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Posted: 2/18/2017 1:06:51 AM EDT
[#37]
Why are folks still pinning and welding steel muzzle devices to barrels? I've been having titanium muzzle devices pinned and welded since titanium muzzle devices hit the market in 2" lengths. First one I had done was a V7, then had a couple of 2A T3 Compensators pinned and welded to a Faxon 14.5" barrels, etc.
Why isn't Faxon offering those slim muzzle devices in titanium? That would be spectacular. |
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Posted: 2/18/2017 4:19:52 AM EDT
[#38]
No pins here, that's what SBRs are for. Of course, in states where stuff is banned they make more sense. Some people don't wanna mess with paperwork I suppose.
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2017 2:28:52 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SOCOM76:
Why are folks still pinning and welding steel muzzle devices to barrels? I've been having titanium muzzle devices pinned and welded since titanium muzzle devices hit the market in 2" lengths. First one I had done was a V7, then had a couple of 2A T3 Compensators pinned and welded to a Faxon 14.5" barrels, etc. Why isn't Faxon offering those slim muzzle devices in titanium? That would be spectacular. I agree with you about the steel muzzle devices but I think there are two main reasons. 1: People don't realize there is an option other than steel 2: People have the idea that Ti isn't durable. Both make sense and I've seen some Ti brakes go to hell real quick but that's usually in high round count guns and especially machine guns. I've been asked to make some 51 and 90 tooth mounts in Ti but they will just not hold up to that kind of punishment. Without a can, and with the porting done right, Ti can and will hold up better than most would expect. I'm wanting to do a version of the A2 Comp in Ti and then add a Gemtech Halo to see how well it holds up in that kind of environment. Also, update on the KMR nut. We ran three prototype units tonight. Look good but need to check out actual major OD and fitment, etc before running more. I won't be able to post an update until later this week due to family and work obligations but if anyone has questions, please feel free to email me. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2017 4:00:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SOCOM76]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stitchclimber:
I agree with you about the steel muzzle devices but I think there are two main reasons. 1: People don't realize there is an option other than steel 2: People have the idea that Ti isn't durable. Both make sense and I've seen some Ti brakes go to hell real quick but that's usually in high round count guns and especially machine guns. I've been asked to make some 51 and 90 tooth mounts in Ti but they will just not hold up to that kind of punishment. Without a can, and with the porting done right, Ti can and will hold up better than most would expect. I'm wanting to do a version of the A2 Comp in Ti and then add a Gemtech Halo to see how well it holds up in that kind of environment. Also, update on the KMR nut. We ran three prototype units tonight. Look good but need to check out actual major OD and fitment, etc before running more. I won't be able to post an update until later this week due to family and work obligations but if anyone has questions, please feel free to email me. Compared to steel, titanium has a much higher heat tolerance, dissipates heat and cools faster than steel, has higher corrosion resistance, and of course, has a higher strength to weight ratio, so I'm not entirely sure why a titanium muzzle device itself would fail under higher round counts, or fail under sustained fire. Keeping with that point, since titanium has a much higher heat tolerance, the bullet entering a titanium muzzle device, especially a suppressor, can fragment under sustained fire, striking the muzzle device, or cause a baffle-strike within a suppressor. Depending on your school of thought, the titanium itself isn't the problem under those circumstances, In short, the heat that the titanium is able to endure causes the bullet to fragment. Under semi-auto fire, it will never be a problem. Since not many of us own machine guns, all the properties associated with titanium make that particular alloy a far superior solution for gas blocks and muzzle devices. Add an inconel steel gas tube to the equation, and your gas rings or barrel will fail under sustained fire long before your DI system will. At that point, I guess the only thing to be decided is which part you want to be the sacrificial part in your system. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 4:10:20 AM EDT
[#41]
WOOT!
just got an email from stichclimber... The aluminum KMR barrel nuts are moving forward.... they are hoping to have some prototypes out today. Update coming soon!!! thanks again stichclimber |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 12:34:53 PM EDT
[#42]
I've been modding an A2 grip for my LW build. I figured I have 8 of them laying around with no real use, so I weighed them all and picked the lightest one to attempt a mod. After grinding off the finger ridge thing on the front and chopping the bottom 5/8-3/4"-ish off and sanding off all the texture on the sides I've got it at about 1.75oz.
Next will be speed holes in the top part (similar to the factory one where the spring goes). I figure I can drill 3 of those in each side, plus a couple through the front, and one through the back. I don't think I'll add any speed holes to the sides/bottom, but what I will do is grind/sand the inside of the grip until it's much thinner/lighter than the original part. A2 grips have a little more total thickness to them vs the K grip, which makes it easier for me to hold a chopped down grip. If it doesn't work out, I can always try a different variation with another throw-away grip or go to the K grip like I originally planned. Anyway, once I get it 'right', I'll add some light stippling to the sides, cerakote it, and call it good. 1.5oz should be doable and still have a cozy grip. If I was willing to sacrifice a good-feeling grip and skeletonized the hell out of it, I'm sure much lighter weights would be possible. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 12:48:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: November5]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SOCOM76:
Compared to steel, titanium has a much higher heat tolerance, dissipates heat and cools faster than steel, has higher corrosion resistance, and of course, has a higher strength to weight ratio, so I'm not entirely sure why a titanium muzzle device itself would fail under higher round counts, or fail under sustained fire. Keeping with that point, since titanium has a much higher heat tolerance, the bullet entering a titanium muzzle device, especially a suppressor, can fragment under sustained fire, striking the muzzle device, or cause a baffle-strike within a suppressor. Depending on your school of thought, the titanium itself isn't the problem under those circumstances, In short, the heat that the titanium is able to endure causes the bullet to fragment. Under semi-auto fire, it will never be a problem. Titanium erodes faster than steel when exposed to high heat. It's not as strong as steel. It's much harder to weld. And it's harder to machine. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 2:43:49 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SOCOM76:
Why are folks still pinning and welding steel muzzle devices to barrels?. Some of us aren't. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2017 7:20:00 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SOCOM76:
Compared to steel, titanium has a much higher heat tolerance, dissipates heat and cools faster than steel, has higher corrosion resistance, and of course, has a higher strength to weight ratio, so I'm not entirely sure why a titanium muzzle device itself would fail under higher round counts, or fail under sustained fire. Keeping with that point, since titanium has a much higher heat tolerance, the bullet entering a titanium muzzle device, especially a suppressor, can fragment under sustained fire, striking the muzzle device, or cause a baffle-strike within a suppressor. Depending on your school of thought, the titanium itself isn't the problem under those circumstances, In short, the heat that the titanium is able to endure causes the bullet to fragment. Under semi-auto fire, it will never be a problem. Since not many of us own machine guns, all the properties associated with titanium make that particular alloy a far superior solution for gas blocks and muzzle devices. Add an inconel steel gas tube to the equation, and your gas rings or barrel will fail under sustained fire long before your DI system will. At that point, I guess the only thing to be decided is which part you want to be the sacrificial part in your system. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SOCOM76:
Compared to steel, titanium has a much higher heat tolerance, dissipates heat and cools faster than steel, has higher corrosion resistance, and of course, has a higher strength to weight ratio, so I'm not entirely sure why a titanium muzzle device itself would fail under higher round counts, or fail under sustained fire. Keeping with that point, since titanium has a much higher heat tolerance, the bullet entering a titanium muzzle device, especially a suppressor, can fragment under sustained fire, striking the muzzle device, or cause a baffle-strike within a suppressor. Depending on your school of thought, the titanium itself isn't the problem under those circumstances, In short, the heat that the titanium is able to endure causes the bullet to fragment. Under semi-auto fire, it will never be a problem. Since not many of us own machine guns, all the properties associated with titanium make that particular alloy a far superior solution for gas blocks and muzzle devices. Add an inconel steel gas tube to the equation, and your gas rings or barrel will fail under sustained fire long before your DI system will. At that point, I guess the only thing to be decided is which part you want to be the sacrificial part in your system. I understand not everyone has machine guns, I sure don't! But, what I'm saying is that's one reason, at least to me and some of my friends, that Ti isn't being more widely used in muzzle devices. It must be considered by manufacturers as Ti is harder to machine than both steel and aluminum, bar cost is significantly higher, it's harder on tooling, etc. so many parts must be made to help bring the prices down. Bringing a part to market and not failing is increasingly difficult these days. While Ti might be great for gas blocks due to it's ability to withstand heat and better expansion properties but the erosion from the muzzle blast will wear out the Ti muzzle device faster than steel, thus making it less effective at it's job, whether that be as a brake or a flash hider. To me and this is just me, it makes more sense to run a 16" barrel with a short Ti device and deal with the little extra weight for those who are worried about wearing it out. That being said, most probably won't wear their brakes, barrels or gas tubes out. If I had one upper I would but that's another thing, most of use don't. Where's the fun in that!?
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Where are you getting your info? Titanium erodes faster than steel when exposed to high heat. It's not as strong as steel. It's much harder to weld. And it's harder to machine. Exactly, that was my point above. It helps when one sees the erosion results, too. While it can be welded, I'm quite sure there are less folks willing to weld a 150$ titanium brake to a steel barrel. That's why we have ADCO though! |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:10:57 PM EDT
[#46]
14/16" bbls, bah! Lightweight builds with 7.5-12" bbls are where it's at. If only we could get that 10.3" pencil faxon bbl deal done.
I've got an aluminum thread protector I'm gonna run. 0.20 oz. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 8:40:15 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jekbrown:
If only we could get that 10.3" pencil faxon bbl deal done. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 9:33:30 PM EDT
[#48]
Speaking of Faxon, Rainier Arms has some of their carbon handguards in stock ready to ship.
The 15" version is advertised as 7.99 ounces with a steel barrel nut, drop about half an ounce if you sub in a titanium nut. I have a 15" en route (just ordered so it'll probably be at least a week from WA to MD) and can provide photos when it arrives. (if you qualify for rainier's .mil/LE pricing, and are on the fence, jump now--it's *VERY* well-priced--cheaper than a straight KMR ever was) |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:52:06 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshAston:
Where are you getting your info? Titanium erodes faster than steel when exposed to high heat. It's not as strong as steel. It's much harder to weld. And it's harder to machine. Correct, but the variables you're discounting are the fact that titanium dissipates heat more effectively than steel, cools faster, and can tolerate far more heat than steel, so while it may erode faster when exposed to enormous and continuous amounts of heat, it doesn't erode any faster than steel. Meaning, shoot 2K rounds with steel parts, 2K rounds with titanium parts, and there will be no notable difference in erosion. I have over 6,000 rounds on a V7 gas block, and V7 flash hider that I purchased in mid 2014. To date, no problems. The info comes from aerospace and their consistent use of titanium, manufacturers of titanium suppressors, manufacturers of titanium gas blocks, muzzle devices, etc. Talk to Joel at V7, the folks at 2A Arms, etc. |
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Posted: 2/23/2017 9:09:47 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmedFerret:
Speaking of Faxon, Rainier Arms has some of their carbon handguards in stock ready to ship. The 15" version is advertised as 7.99 ounces with a steel barrel nut, drop about half an ounce if you sub in a titanium nut. I have a 15" en route (just ordered so it'll probably be at least a week from WA to MD) and can provide photos when it arrives. (if you qualify for rainier's .mil/LE pricing, and are on the fence, jump now--it's *VERY* well-priced--cheaper than a straight KMR ever was) Pics are cool, but a user verified weight would be even better.
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