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Posted: 11/14/2013 5:12:51 AM EDT
[#1]
I cannot wait till all the liberals hear about this their will be lots of butthurtedness because they followed the law and found a way to increase rate of fire legally.
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Posted: 11/14/2013 5:42:03 AM EDT
[#2]
http://usautoweapons.com/product.usm4-mode-3-select-fire-capable-650-rounds-per-minute-16-rifle-black-non-nfa-2
Being advertised as 650 rounds per minute, i thought it sounded slow compared to the 750-950 of a m4/m16 but still on par with a ak47 and other full auto firearms. |
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Posted: 11/14/2013 7:46:16 AM EDT
[#3]
I hope this thing is high shelf compatible.
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Posted: 11/14/2013 7:57:55 AM EDT
[#4]
I dont want to admit it really....but if the KAC lower ends up being compatible....I'll be ordering 1.
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Posted: 11/14/2013 8:10:31 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Complete 14.5" w/ pinned flash hider and the trigger group is $2700... http://www.kearms.com/rifle-select-fire-black-14in The details say that it's an auto-reset trigger system. |
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Posted: 11/14/2013 8:20:22 AM EDT
[#6]
If it delivers everything I hope it does I have no problem throwing $500 on the oll credit card
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Posted: 11/14/2013 8:22:03 AM EDT
[#7]
This reminds me of a trigger on a nice paintball marker before they all went electric which should be pretty sweet so I'm in for one! With msrp being $495 does that make the actual sale price from the venders around $400-$450? OR are they selling it from in house only?
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Posted: 11/14/2013 8:32:35 AM EDT
[#8]
I contacted them to see if they would send one to do an independent review to post on the forum and youtube. Its a long shot, but would give people a better idea before throwing $500 at it!
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Posted: 11/14/2013 8:49:36 AM EDT
[#9]
I'd like to see one.
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Posted: 11/14/2013 8:57:22 AM EDT
[#10]
I'm in for at least one...
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Posted: 11/14/2013 9:02:20 AM EDT
[#11]
The most important question here is Do They Have an BATF Approval Letter?
I hope they paid their ITAR fees, and crossed every t and dotted all the i s. If they have a letter how long before the retailer you bought it from, sends you a letter saying the government is rounding up these triggers. If a shoestring can be a registered machinegun... |
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Posted: 11/14/2013 9:04:44 AM EDT
[#12]
If I understand how this operates, I see Akins Accelerator written all over it.
Why? Because it uses a spring to reset the trigger. It may have made it through Technology Branch, but I foresee an updated ruling on it 
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Posted: 11/14/2013 9:08:41 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just peed a little. Me too 
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Posted: 11/14/2013 9:14:59 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I understand how this operates, I see Akins Accelerator written all over it. Why? Because it uses a spring to reset the trigger. It may have made it through Technology Branch, but I foresee an updated ruling on it Every AR trigger ever uses a spring to reset the trigger... 
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Posted: 11/14/2013 9:15:58 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I understand how this operates, I see Akins Accelerator written all over it. Why? Because it uses a spring to reset the trigger. It may have made it through Technology Branch, but I foresee an updated ruling on it This could be as simple as a cammed cyclic trigger rate. IE: 4.5lb pull - increases to 12lb pull while BCG is back - drops to 4.5lb pull when BCG closes. |
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Posted: 11/14/2013 9:20:18 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every AR trigger ever uses a spring to reset the trigger... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If I understand how this operates, I see Akins Accelerator written all over it. Why? Because it uses a spring to reset the trigger. It may have made it through Technology Branch, but I foresee an updated ruling on it Every AR trigger ever uses a spring to reset the trigger... How "heavy" is the reset spring in most AR triggers. I think everyone is assuming its a strong spring "forcing" your finger forward in this new 3 mode trigger. |
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Posted: 11/14/2013 9:27:30 AM EDT
[#17]
I'd be in for one or two IF they prove to be as reliable as a mil spec or Geissele unit. Otherwise it would be a pure novelty item, and $500 is NOT a price I'd pay for a novelty trigger.
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Posted: 11/14/2013 10:23:12 AM EDT
[#18]
I'd pay $200. Cool concept but we're talking about a trigger that is totally unproven. At this point it's no more than a fancy range-toy. I'd rather put that money towards a better rifle.
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Posted: 11/14/2013 11:51:06 AM EDT
[#19]
If it truly works as well as in the ad video I would have no qualms laying down $500 for that kind of fun.
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Posted: 11/14/2013 11:53:41 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd be in for one or two IF they prove to be as reliable as a mil spec or Geissele unit. Otherwise it would be a pure novelty item, and $500 is NOT a price I'd pay for a novelty trigger. I'm nearly that fast with my $60 ALG ACT trigger, shaving a few more milliseconds off of my split times won't win me any more matches...
(of course my finger would start stiffening up after a mag or two at that rate...  )
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Posted: 11/14/2013 12:29:35 PM EDT
[#21]
have we actually figured out how this thing works yet? looks to me like the second position was a standard semi-auto pull, and the third position was a shot-on-pull-shot-on-release setup (effectively 2 shots with every FULL CYCLE of the trigger). there was a company making a similar deal for... mini 13's maybe... many years ago. they were considered good-to-go by the ATF, which considered the pull and the release of the trigger to be seperate opertaions. |
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Posted: 11/14/2013 12:44:58 PM EDT
[#22]
I don't like that it is a Timney-style drop in box rather than a complete new trigger, like a Giessele.
I have an SD3G already. I won't be replacing it any time soon, but I feel like these new ones will sell like hotcakes because you can rotate the selector to the 3rd position. I'd consider it at $500 if it was both a 2-stage trigger and a super lite single stage...and the trigger blade came in some other style. |
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Posted: 11/14/2013 1:38:20 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't like that it is a Timney-style drop in box rather than a complete new trigger, like a Giessele. I have an SD3G already. I won't be replacing it any time soon, but I feel like these new ones will sell like hotcakes because you can rotate the selector to the 3rd position. I'd consider it at $500 if it was both a 2-stage trigger and a super lite single stage...and the trigger blade came in some other style. I don't care for the trigger its self or the selector. If this thing does what I think it does I wont give 2 shits about either and will throwing money at them to get my hands on one. |
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Posted: 11/14/2013 1:57:00 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I understand how this operates, I see Akins Accelerator written all over it. Why? Because it uses a spring to reset the trigger. It may have made it through Technology Branch, but I foresee an updated ruling on it It's a legend that Akins had approval for the Accelerator. They had approval for a similar but different setup that didn't have the spring in it. They used the "approval" excuse not to look like it was their fault it was disapproved to their customers. These facts are conveniently buried unless you read deep into the archives of other forums. |
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Posted: 11/14/2013 3:07:13 PM EDT
[#25]
I have not seen one of these triggers but it looks to me like the lever piece you can see sticking up behind the disconnector is hit by the hammer tail when the hammer is cammed down.
The lever looks like it is moved in an out of engagement with the hammer tail by the selector I would think the pull might be like a heavy duty trigger slap, like you get on some AK triggers Pretty ingenious device. Even so I wish these guys well |
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Posted: 11/14/2013 3:14:52 PM EDT
[#26]
I like the idea a lot. The only thing that worries me is long term durability. I was wondering about the trigger slap as well. I wonder how long it will last before the ATF acts retarded. I'd really like to test one.
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Posted: 11/14/2013 3:18:40 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have not seen one of these triggers but it looks to me like the lever piece you can see sticking up behind the disconnector is hit by the hammer tail when the hammer is cammed down. The lever looks like it is moved in an out of engagement with the hammer tail by the selector I would think the pull might be like a heavy duty trigger slap, like you get on some AK triggers Pretty ingenious device. But I think it will provide fodder for the antis to make a hit piece against all ARs or jam us all up if a nut case uses it in a mass shooting Even so I wish these guys well Can you guys make one so I can actually buy it? 
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Posted: 11/14/2013 3:20:32 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have not seen one of these triggers but it looks to me like the lever piece you can see sticking up behind the disconnector is hit by the hammer tail when the hammer is cammed down. The lever looks like it is moved in an out of engagement with the hammer tail by the selector I would think the pull might be like a heavy duty trigger slap, like you get on some AK triggers Pretty ingenious device. But I think it will provide fodder for the antis to make a hit piece against all ARs or jam us all up if a nut case uses it in a mass shooting Even so I wish these guys well Soooo, when can we look forward to a single stage/2 stage from you? That would be something I'd buy without question! |
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Posted: 11/14/2013 3:22:37 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like the idea a lot. The only thing that worries me is long term durability. I was wondering about the trigger slap as well. I wonder how long it will last before the ATF acts retarded. I'd really like to test one. I think it will hold up if materials are up to snuff. |
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Posted: 11/14/2013 3:30:49 PM EDT
[#30]
I got to play with one. It's a fancy bump fire device. You still have to find that sweet spot to get it to recoil just right.
Not my thing but hey, do what you want with your money. |
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Posted: 11/14/2013 3:32:15 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have not seen one of these triggers but it looks to me like the lever piece you can see sticking up behind the disconnector is hit by the hammer tail when the hammer is cammed down. The lever looks like it is moved in an out of engagement with the hammer tail by the selector I would think the pull might be like a heavy duty trigger slap, like you get on some AK triggers Pretty ingenious device. But I think it will provide fodder for the antis to make a hit piece against all ARs or jam us all up if a nut case uses it in a mass shooting Even so I wish these guys well |
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Posted: 11/14/2013 3:33:09 PM EDT
[#32]
I should add the ATF already approved these. Or at least they were shipping with a certified ATF semi auto certificate looking thing.
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Posted: 11/14/2013 3:43:14 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I got to play with one. It's a fancy bump fire device. You still have to find that sweet spot to get it to recoil just right. Not my thing but hey, do what you want with your money. |
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Posted: 11/14/2013 4:09:19 PM EDT
[#34]
Fuck! How the hell do you save a video onto our computer to show it to someone w/o service?!?
Ugh! I'm on a Mac and just_never_did_it! If anyone can help, thanks! I have a buddy who's just got to see this! 
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Posted: 11/14/2013 4:11:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fuck! How the hell do you save a video onto our computer to show it to someone w/o service?!? Ugh! I'm on a Mac and just_never_did_it! If anyone can help, thanks! I have a buddy who's just got to see this! Google "youtube download" There are a couple sites that you paste the link into and it will give you a download link. |
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Posted: 11/14/2013 4:25:14 PM EDT
[#36]
Watched the video on their site. No way, in hell, will that remain legal. I don't care if they have a hundred BATFE letters saying its ok, that will be reversed soon. YMMV.
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Posted: 11/14/2013 4:36:52 PM EDT
[#37]
I. Want. To. Touch. It! I'm excited
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Posted: 11/14/2013 5:07:31 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I got to play with one. It's a fancy bump fire device. You still have to find that sweet spot to get it to recoil just right. Not my thing but hey, do what you want with your money. Did u gt to fire it? If so how difficult was to make it work properly? The way they are advertising it and from he video they make it look so easy a monkey could use it. If it takes tons of practice and just the perfect grip to get it to work right I think it will loose a lot of appeal I know I'm not going to pay $500 for a bump fire trigger that only works half of he time, I want something that's reliable and easy to use. |
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Posted: 11/14/2013 5:46:04 PM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 11/14/2013 6:20:22 PM EDT
[#40]
switching to 3rd position shortens reset and the trigger pushs forward against your finger during cycling, i believe you still need to move your finger forward for reset to take place. I played with one in LGS, but no experience shooting it. Seems like it would work with a loosey goosey trigger finger, just slap, let your finger bounce with the forward motion of the trigger and slap again.
I will try to stop in again and maybe take a video or something of the trigger group in in action. |
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Posted: 11/14/2013 6:55:56 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I got to play with one. It's a fancy bump fire device. You still have to find that sweet spot to get it to recoil just right. Not my thing but hey, do what you want with your money. Yes, how easy is it to manipulate? If it takes some 5 mags and others 10 mags to get it right and you still have to go thru a mag every time you shoot it to hit the sweet spot I'm out. But if its reliable, meaning first mag and your golden then I may have to sell something
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Posted: 11/14/2013 7:28:41 PM EDT
[#42]
That looks pretty interesting . I believe however, with the arfcom being the number one source of all things ar related, they should do a group buy. $495 is steep for a trigger IMHO, I could build another rifle almost or buy a XDS or M&P
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Posted: 11/14/2013 7:37:15 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, how easy is it to manipulate? If it takes some 5 mags and others 10 mags to get it right and you still have to go thru a mag every time you shoot it to hit the sweet spot I'm out. But if its reliable, meaning first mag and your golden then I may have to sell something Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I got to play with one. It's a fancy bump fire device. You still have to find that sweet spot to get it to recoil just right. Not my thing but hey, do what you want with your money. Yes, how easy is it to manipulate? If it takes some 5 mags and others 10 mags to get it right and you still have to go thru a mag every time you shoot it to hit the sweet spot I'm out. But if its reliable, meaning first mag and your golden then I may have to sell something im not planning to buy this for a couple months after the release, give them some time to work out the bugs, make the ATF isnt going to change their mind and allow people time to write a few reviews on it. It looks insane in the video, but how many shots did it take for them to get it to look as flawless as it did. |
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Posted: 11/14/2013 9:04:37 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lol...we'll see Richie Rich... $500 for just a trigger is tough to pull the trigger on for ALLLLLLOT of people, even those of us with fat wallets. I'm very happy with my KAC and JP triggers but will buy this IF CHEAPER. I can buy a complete upper for $500, decent glass, and there are plenty of other triggers out there that people are perfectly happy with that won't demand they spend that much on a trigger. When this goes live, it will be interesting to see the sales in month 3+ Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Everyone on here who says 500 is steep is kidding themselves, as soon as the ATF says go ahead, you all will grab one. Im not even gonna lie, ill preorder one as soon as i can. they will just serialize them like they did the lightning link until they can get the guys to stop making em. Fuk it, im all in lol...we'll see Richie Rich... $500 for just a trigger is tough to pull the trigger on for ALLLLLLOT of people, even those of us with fat wallets. I'm very happy with my KAC and JP triggers but will buy this IF CHEAPER. I can buy a complete upper for $500, decent glass, and there are plenty of other triggers out there that people are perfectly happy with that won't demand they spend that much on a trigger. When this goes live, it will be interesting to see the sales in month 3+ LOL, man i far from rich but im sure 80% of the people here spend 500 bills a month on worse things. I can work 2 extra shifts this month to get it, if it sucks, its still a single stage 4.5 pound trigger, if it works.....
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Posted: 11/15/2013 1:01:50 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did u gt to fire it? If so how difficult was to make it work properly? The way they are advertising it and from he video they make it look so easy a monkey could use it. If it takes tons of practice and just the perfect grip to get it to work right I think it will loose a lot of appeal I know I'm not going to pay $500 for a bump fire trigger that only works half of he time, I want something that's reliable and easy to use. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I got to play with one. It's a fancy bump fire device. You still have to find that sweet spot to get it to recoil just right. Not my thing but hey, do what you want with your money. Did u gt to fire it? If so how difficult was to make it work properly? The way they are advertising it and from he video they make it look so easy a monkey could use it. If it takes tons of practice and just the perfect grip to get it to work right I think it will loose a lot of appeal I know I'm not going to pay $500 for a bump fire trigger that only works half of he time, I want something that's reliable and easy to use. Yes, yes and yes. These are my worries also. Well, and that I'd buy one - only to have to turn it in to ATF in a couple months - and then, try to get my money back from a (suddenly) bankrupt company!
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Posted: 11/15/2013 6:00:49 AM EDT
[#46]
I emailed the company with some questions. Here's their reply...
"Discounts start a over 10 units and then you would be a distributor. Thank you for your interest in Tac-Con™. The response to our revolutionary, new 3MR (3rd Mode Reset) trigger has been overwhelming and we appreciate your patience as we launch our new company. We issued a media press release on Tuesday and it made AR15.com some minutes later. Not to say that was a bad thing but we were not entirely prepared for the tremendous public response! We are ramping up production in anticipation of our official launch on December 1st!. Note: We will begin accepting pre-orders at www.tacfirecon.com on or just after Saturday November 16th watch the web site for more information. About the TAC-CON 3MR Trigger The 3MR is a drop-in 3-mode fire control system with Safe, Semi-Automatic, and Tac-Con™'s patented 3rd Mode. The 3rd mode has a positive reset that dramatically reduces the split times between shots. The positive reset characteristic is achieved by transferring the force from the bolt carrier through the trigger assembly to assist the trigger back onto the front sear. As a result, this gives the firearm the fastest reset possible. Both semi and 3rd mode positions exhibit a non-adjustable 4.5 pound trigger pull weight. Why 4.5 pounds? Because most law enforcement agencies limit any trigger used for duty to 4.5 pounds and above. Extensive testing done by Tac-Con™, the ATF (BATFE), and professional shooters have proven that this is the fastest semi-automatic trigger in the world. The 3MR is ATF approved and is NOT a NFA part. Each trigger is accompanied by a copy of the ATF letter. This is not a bump fire system. The shooter must pull the trigger once for every round fired. Additional information will be available at www.tacfirecon.com on December 1st. Thank you for your interest in TAC-CON!! Mike Stakes, President, Tac-Con™ " |
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Posted: 11/15/2013 6:36:38 AM EDT
[#47]
I emailed them as well and asked a more specific question. I asked them if there was a learning curve to learning to use this trigger to its potential and the answer is yes. I was told it is very easy but it will take practice to get higher rates of fire.
What I forgot to ask is if you need a full auto carrier for it to work. Also I'm curios if low mass carriers will speed things up as well. The faster the bolt hits home the faster the reset. |
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Posted: 11/15/2013 6:46:32 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I emailed them as well and asked a more specific question. I asked them if there was a learning curve to learning to use this trigger to its potential and the answer is yes. I was told it is very easy but it will take practice to get higher rates of fire. What I forgot to ask is if you need a full auto carrier for it to work. Also I'm curios if low mass carriers will speed things up as well. The faster the bolt hits home the faster the reset. I can't imagine that a FA carrier would make a difference except in cycle rate, as there is no auto sear to trip. |
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Posted: 11/15/2013 7:14:18 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I emailed the company with some questions. Here's their reply... "Discounts start a over 10 units and then you would be a distributor. Thank you for your interest in Tac-Con™. The response to our revolutionary, new 3MR (3rd Mode Reset) trigger has been overwhelming and we appreciate your patience as we launch our new company. We issued a media press release on Tuesday and it made AR15.com some minutes later. Not to say that was a bad thing but we were not entirely prepared for the tremendous public response! We are ramping up production in anticipation of our official launch on December 1st!. Note: We will begin accepting pre-orders at www.tacfirecon.com on or just after Saturday November 16th watch the web site for more information. About the TAC-CON 3MR Trigger The 3MR is a drop-in 3-mode fire control system with Safe, Semi-Automatic, and Tac-Con™'s patented 3rd Mode. The 3rd mode has a positive reset that dramatically reduces the split times between shots. The positive reset characteristic is achieved by transferring the force from the bolt carrier through the trigger assembly to assist the trigger back onto the front sear. As a result, this gives the firearm the fastest reset possible. Both semi and 3rd mode positions exhibit a non-adjustable 4.5 pound trigger pull weight. Why 4.5 pounds? Because most law enforcement agencies limit any trigger used for duty to 4.5 pounds and above. Extensive testing done by Tac-Con™, the ATF (BATFE), and professional shooters have proven that this is the fastest semi-automatic trigger in the world. The 3MR is ATF approved and is NOT a NFA part. Each trigger is accompanied by a copy of the ATF letter. This is not a bump fire system. The shooter must pull the trigger once for every round fired. Additional information will be available at www.tacfirecon.com on December 1st. Thank you for your interest in TAC-CON!! Mike Stakes, President, Tac-Con™ " Ah, so basically the magical 3rd mode is just a trigger with a light weigh pull, fast reset and short trigger travel distance allowing the shooter to fire the rifle as fast as they can "tap" or "flick" the trigger. So its not like bump or slide firing where you hold your finger stead and it keeps firing, for this device as you are actually having to pull the trigger for each shot, it just helps you do it very quickly and with less effort than a normal trigger. Thats kind of disappointing, not sure im a fan of paying $500 for basically just a faster trigger, that takes of tons of practice and is probably nearly impossible to get the 650 rpm that is being advertised. |
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Posted: 11/15/2013 7:20:16 AM EDT
[#50]
Dear TACCON,
Make this a $250 to $299 unit and you will quickly climb to the top of the drop in trigger market... |
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