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Link Posted: 5/13/2017 11:21:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: usjet] [#1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JJREA:
I really like my A2 with an A1 buttstock.  It feels perfect for me.  But I'm only 5'8".  But I never shoot with armor.  And not very thick clothing.  But man it feels just right.  The A2 butt plate is superior, IMHO. Well, compared to a metal, rounded A1.  A rubber A1 might be fine though.  But the flat on doesn't slip much at all.

For me shooting NTCH is not very natural in a standing, offhand position.  I have a long neck and I have to crane it to get there.  And it puts more strain on the position of my eyeball.  Meaning I'm looking up.  So, I'm not sure what that's got to do with anything other than I ever have to choose a more natural head position and try to keep my head in the same spot, or I need take an unnatural head position and shoot ntch for consistency.  Neither way is optimum, IMHO.   With an A2 stock, my head is a bit further back and makes the smaller ap harder to use.  

Anyways....  making a short story long, for me an A1 is the perfect length stock.  I would think I'm in the 5th to 95th percentile (height wise), but maybe not.  

I am a huge fan of A2 sights though. I think they have no rival in the iron sight world.  And several other A2 improvements.  
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Distant relative?


Going to be a splendid morning :

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 5/13/2017 5:36:09 PM EDT
[#2]
Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.  You should visit the A2 forum and let us know what you're up to.  It will really be appreciated there.
Link Posted: 5/13/2017 6:06:52 PM EDT
[#3]
I will-

Just as soon as I find my take-down pin detent.

Link Posted: 5/13/2017 6:54:25 PM EDT
[#4]
Guess i'm lucky.  I have no problem with the A2 grip, but i have relatively small hands and skinny fingers.
Link Posted: 5/13/2017 9:30:09 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By usjet:  I will-

Just as soon as I find my take-down pin detent.

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Didja ask NASA?
Link Posted: 5/14/2017 7:15:03 AM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 5/14/2017 7:33:47 AM EDT
[#7]
This thread keeps getting better and better.

Link Posted: 5/14/2017 9:39:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: EVR] [#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By coldblue:


Eliminating Full Auto had nothing to do with the Army. It was the Marine Corps Ammunition Branch accessing the negative (in terms of "days of supply," impact of the M249 SAW ammo pack-out on Landing Force Ammo stored aboard amphib shipping known as "L-Form." Needless to say this non-tactical input from the logisticians came out of left field, but played well with senior officers who wanted "to fix" the M16A1, not only its mechanical elements but its perceived operational/training ones as well.
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Now that's just a tease!

Just how far did this recommendation go?  Were any prototype receivers built, tactical and logistical assessments made, etc, as to the impact a fixed semiauto M16 on Army and/or Marine doctrine? Or was the idea to have a sort of M14 approach, issuing rifles that were capable of full auto but had their selectors fixed for SA firing only?  Any details you can shed here would be greatly appreciated.  It is interesting that a Marine Corp group would stump for SA-only.  So was the 3-shot burst a sort of institutional compromise and outgrowth of that goal?

Coldblue:

Can you give us a summary, rundown, a list of features, a short description of what would describe what the ARMY's "M16A2" would have looked like had the M16A2 been designed completely "in-house" WITHOUT ANY Marine Corps input?

Thanks, and thank you so much for your posts.
Link Posted: 5/14/2017 9:53:02 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By coldblue:


Eliminating Full Auto had nothing to do with the Army. It was the Marine Corps Ammunition Branch accessing the negative (in terms of "days of supply," impact of the M249 SAW ammo pack-out on Landing Force Ammo stored aboard amphib shipping known as "L-Form." Needless to say this non-tactical input from the logisticians came out of left field, but played well with senior officers who wanted "to fix" the M16A1, not only its mechanical elements but its perceived operational/training ones as well.
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Ahhh...  I have a habit of blaming Ordnance Corps for a variety of things, including thinking "cost" instead of on-the-ground issues.

To me, they're right up there with Air Force brass who think no Airman needs to know more than just "how not to hurt yourself with your rifle."  Since my specialty often spends more time outside the wire than in, this sort of thinking (non-tactical, ignoring the way ground combat actually happens, etc.) has a personal impact.
Link Posted: 5/15/2017 7:51:36 AM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 5/15/2017 12:25:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: EVR] [#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By coldblue:
You asked:
"Just how far did this recommendation go? Were any prototype receivers built, tactical and logistical assessments made, etc, as to the impact a fixed semiauto M16 on Army and/or Marine doctrine? Or was the idea to have a sort of M14 approach, issuing rifles that were capable of full auto but had their selectors fixed for SA firing only? Any details you can shed here would be greatly appreciated. It is interesting that a Marine Corp group would stump for SA-only. So was the 3-shot burst a sort of institutional compromise and outgrowth of that goal?

AT that point early in 1980, no prototype rifle contracts were in place. The improved rifle only existed on a series of briefing slides, so there were no prototypes at that time. But the SA only was a serious matter that had already been "decisioned" before I was assigned. The 3-RBC was a compromise I brought to the table, along with the fully adjustable rear sight, MB, etc.. I had found them in test rifles from the early 70's that were stored at Picatinny Arsenal, or I the gun vault at Colt's in Hartford. Also important to your question is that at this early phase, the Marine Corps "at large" (or "the Fleet Marine Force") as we referred to it), only knew of an improvement program, not what it consisted of. So at that point no one was assigned to revise doctrine and tactics.  

Coldblue:

Can you give us a summary, rundown, a list of features, a short description of what would describe what the ARMY's "M16A2" would have looked like had the M16A2 been designed completely "in-house" WITHOUT ANY Marine Corps input?
The short answer would be they would have kept the M16A1 basically as it was. Their logistics command was against the whole USMC program because they had not been assigned or funded to fix any M16A1 deficiencies.  Ft. Benning, the "User" for such Army decisions were not currently funded either, and wosre yet, had no "Requirement". And Picatinny, their material developer, was sitting on their collective hands waiting for "A Requirement Document" and associated funding. That's when the Marines, via the JSSAP program housed at Picatinny, came on the scene with several million $ and an in-place liaison officer to honcho it in the JSSAP office, me.
A bit more objectively: about the only real change that the Army would have made was to adopt their developmental XM777 round to replace the M193. Their XM777 had not won the NATO 5.56 ammo selection testing, like the Belgian SS109 had, but it met the minimum NATO armor penetration requirement and did not require a new barrel or twist like the SS109 did. This would have allowed them to "improve" the rifle on the cheap while they developed their next "future rifle firing darts, new revolutionary weapon/ammo technology, objective individual weapons, bursting munitions weapon, etc...(all failed by the way after million$ squandered...)
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Thank you very much.

That plugs the gap in my knowledge found in the Black Rifle series, materials I've collected on DTIC site, etc.

It is interesting to ponder what might have come from the Army had the A1 limped along until the other experimental systems failed and/if the Army then had another look at the A1.

Anyway, thank you very much.
Link Posted: 5/15/2017 4:49:54 PM EDT
[#12]
Ooooo, can we get more details on what exactly was the XM777 round?  

I've always been intrigued why it took so long to adopt heavier bullets when the Stoner used 68 and 77 grain bullets back in Vietnam.  Or something close to that weight.   Although it does seem like M193 was pretty much working in regards to lethality.  But maybe the longer, heavier bullets would've aided in distance shooting.   I would imagine someone had figured that out back then.
Link Posted: 5/15/2017 8:38:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: lysanderxiii] [#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JJREA:
Ooooo, can we get more details on what exactly was the XM777 round?  

I've always been intrigued why it took so long to adopt heavier bullets when the Stoner used 68 and 77 grain bullets back in Vietnam.  Or something close to that weight.   Although it does seem like M193 was pretty much working in regards to lethality.  But maybe the longer, heavier bullets would've aided in distance shooting.   I would imagine someone had figured that out back then.
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XM287 (Ball) and XM288 (Tracer), 69 grain, they were developed in 1970 - 1973.  They were dropped with the Stoner 63 weapon system, as they required a 1-9 twist.  The Stoner system, not yet type qualified, could have had any twist desired.*  In order to switch to the XM287, every M16 in the inventory (some 1.6 million) would have had to be re-barreled, which was not in the budget.  

By the time the M855 was adopted (initially only linked for the M249 around 1980ish), the M16A2 was in the works and since new rifles were going to be procured, it was feasible to switch to a different rifling twist.

______________________________
*The few Stoner LMGs procured were 1-12 twist.
Link Posted: 5/15/2017 8:55:42 PM EDT
[#14]
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Originally Posted By coldblue:.... The 3-RBC was a compromise I brought to the table,
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So you are That Guy.

The A2 grip AND the 3RBC.......  
Link Posted: 5/15/2017 8:58:30 PM EDT
[#15]
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Originally Posted By coldblue:
The short answer would be they would have kept the M16A1 basically as it was. Their logistics command was against the whole USMC program because they had not been assigned or funded to fix any M16A1 deficiencies.  Ft. Benning, the "User" for such Army decisions were not currently funded either, and wosre yet, had no "Requirement". And Picatinny, their material developer, was sitting on their collective hands waiting for "A Requirement Document" and associated funding. That's when the Marines, via the JSSAP program housed at Picatinny, came on the scene with several million $ and an in-place liaison officer to honcho it in the JSSAP office, me.
A bit more objectively: about the only real change that the Army would have made was to adopt their developmental XM777 round to replace the M193. Their XM777 had not won the NATO 5.56 ammo selection testing, like the Belgian SS109 had, but it met the minimum NATO armor penetration requirement and did not require a new barrel or twist like the SS109 did. This would have allowed them to "improve" the rifle on the cheap while they developed their next "future rifle firing darts, new revolutionary weapon/ammo technology, objective individual weapons, bursting munitions weapon, etc...(all failed by the way after million$ squandered...)
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That's the kind of thing that gave me (and probably a lot of other people) the impression that Ordnance Corps wasn't in any way tuned in to what the Soldier on the ground needed.  And more to the point, how hard Ordnance resisted anything "not invented here."  
Link Posted: 5/16/2017 6:23:13 AM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 5/16/2017 9:09:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: lysanderxiii] [#17]
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Originally Posted By GHPorter:
That's the kind of thing that gave me (and probably a lot of other people) the impression that Ordnance Corps wasn't in any way tuned in to what the Soldier on the ground needed.  And more to the point, how hard Ordnance resisted anything "not invented here."  
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Originally Posted By GHPorter:
That's the kind of thing that gave me (and probably a lot of other people) the impression that Ordnance Corps wasn't in any way tuned in to what the Soldier on the ground needed.  And more to the point, how hard Ordnance resisted anything "not invented here."  
To be fair . . .

"The troops on the ground", were represented by Ft Benning, ("the user") and they issued no requirement for any improvements to the M16A1, so as far as Picatinny was concerned there were no "official" deficiencies.

The other thing is the Office of the Chief of Ordnance was abolished in 1962, and with that, the Ordnance Corps ceased to be the proponent for weapons development.  The functions of the Office of the Chief of Ordnance were fragmented among several commands that often had different visions of what direction the Army was going, and also different budget priorities.  

The Office of the Chief of Ordnance was re-established in 1983, after the M16A2 development was complete.

If you go back to the 50's and 60's you will see one failed program after another that the developers grew fat on, while the troops were left short-changed...
Actually, during the 1950s, you will notice that most programs were run "in-house" and out-side contractors weren't involved until very late in the procurement cycle.  So they really didn't get all that fat on them, the government just wasted money and time (see the M14 development).  It wasn't until McNamara abolished or gutted all the military in-house design facilities (Springfield, Frankford, Redstone, etc.) that system development was contracted out to private companies.  After that, the companies developing new system got the money to waste.
Link Posted: 5/16/2017 3:38:30 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lysanderxiii:

XM287 (Ball) and XM288 (Tracer), 69 grain, they were developed in 1970 - 1973.  They were dropped with the Stoner 63 weapon system, as they required a 1-9 twist.  The Stoner system, not yet type qualified, could have had any twist desired.*  In order to switch to the XM287, every M16 in the inventory (some 1.6 million) would have had to be re-barreled, which was not in the budget.  

By the time the M855 was adopted (initially only linked for the M249 around 1980ish), the M16A2 was in the works and since new rifles were going to be procured, it was feasible to switch to a different rifling twist.

______________________________
*The few Stoner LMGs procured were 1-12 twist.
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Yeah, rebarreling them all would've been insane.  But I was thinking more of a precision shooting version.  In limited numbers.  You would think they would've known the longer heavier bullets of boat tail design would have better long range performance.  At the least get there better than M193.  We do see M16's with scopes on them in Vietnam.   I realize the "sniping" guns would've been more the M14 / M21 and M40 for the jarheads.
Link Posted: 6/3/2017 2:19:41 PM EDT
[#19]
Why are others not as fat as Colt's?
Link Posted: 6/4/2017 10:12:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: mcantu] [#20]
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Originally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:
Why are others not as fat as Colt's?
View Quote
you consider this fat?

Link Posted: 6/4/2017 11:32:18 AM EDT
[#21]
Link Posted: 6/4/2017 1:14:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: gunnut003] [#22]
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Originally Posted By GSL:
I have never seen an A2 with those two pin-sized holes in the handle before.
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Pretty sure they aren't holes, they are marring in the finish from the carry handle scopes that use that 2 prong compression spring .

Link Posted: 6/7/2017 1:37:34 PM EDT
[#23]
There wasn't much on the A2 that was an improvement other than the 1:7 twist for the heavier bullet. Sure the sights are nice for target shooting but all they do in a real war is get moved out of adjustment.  If a person (aka infantryman) only shoots one round then once the rifle is zeroed the sights would not normally be changed.  The USMC should have been teaching the trajectory and required holdover instead of a silly click adjustable sight. The Canadians got that one right!  The A2 stock is too long, the whole rifle is too heavy and horribly out of balance.  One can argue the round handguards are of logistical benefit but that is about all. The 3-rd burst is for women and idiots not real soldiers.  And, oh the A2 grip was a change so there could be a change to point to and label an "improvement" to justify all the time, dicking around, and wasted money.  The Israeli Defense Forces did the right thing, they put a Colt A1 profile 1:7 twist barrel and round handguards on their A1's and switched to 62 gr. NATO ammo and they were good to go.  Unfortunately those rifles eventually got worn out and they also liked the idea of new free Colts from the generous USA aid grants.  

11B40 Vietnam 67-68
Link Posted: 6/7/2017 2:14:40 PM EDT
[#24]
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Originally Posted By coldblue:
If you go back to the 50's and 60's you will see one failed program after another that the developers grew fat on, while the troops were left short-changed...
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Can you explain this bit more?

How were soldiers left short-changed with the AR-15?
Link Posted: 6/7/2017 2:15:19 PM EDT
[#25]
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Originally Posted By gunnut003:


Pretty sure they aren't holes, they are marring in the finish from the carry handle scopes that use that 2 prong compression spring .

https://picturearchive.gunauction.com/2550102736/7869057/cbf3d4f459aa00dd9aa9496dcff3a4fe.jpg
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Yep not holes, just bare aluminum.
Link Posted: 6/7/2017 2:42:35 PM EDT
[#26]
@DeanD

You should really read coldblue's posts in this thread.
Link Posted: 6/8/2017 6:43:14 AM EDT
[#27]
Link Posted: 6/8/2017 7:06:33 AM EDT
[#28]
Because we always fix things that aren't broke.
Link Posted: 7/22/2017 2:31:47 PM EDT
[#29]
Another great thread and thank you Col Lutz. Some of the information is new to me and some was common knowledge when I was in the army (89-96)

The biggest improvement with the A2 for me was having the built in brass deflector. I stated out with the A1 then transitioned to the A2 after Desert Storm (when I wasn't carrying the M60) I remember when the M4 was announced in 94 and they had just started issuing them to the 82nd and 101st in late 94/early 95. All of the first M4 carbines had the A2 uppers. I was supposed to get issued the M4 while at NTC in 96 since I was on a M88 recovery vehicle but got out before the arms room got them in. I prefer the A2 pistol grip to this day over anything else. It works well and my hand would not slip off it no matter if my hand was covered in blood ( when I was an engineer) or covered in grease/oil ( after re-classing to a machinist)
Link Posted: 7/22/2017 2:52:55 PM EDT
[#30]
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Originally Posted By Wangstang:
@DeanD

You should really read coldblue's posts in this thread.
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Maybe Coldblue should read DeanD's post..... Just sayin...
Link Posted: 7/22/2017 3:23:16 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DeanD:
There wasn't much on the A2 that was an improvement other than the 1:7 twist for the heavier bullet. Sure the sights are nice for target shooting but all they do in a real war is get moved out of adjustment.  If a person (aka infantryman) only shoots one round then once the rifle is zeroed the sights would not normally be changed.  The USMC should have been teaching the trajectory and required holdover instead of a silly click adjustable sight. The Canadians got that one right!  The A2 stock is too long, the whole rifle is too heavy and horribly out of balance.  One can argue the round handguards are of logistical benefit but that is about all. The 3-rd burst is for women and idiots not real soldiers.  And, oh the A2 grip was a change so there could be a change to point to and label an "improvement" to justify all the time, dicking around, and wasted money.  The Israeli Defense Forces did the right thing, they put a Colt A1 profile 1:7 twist barrel and round handguards on their A1's and switched to 62 gr. NATO ammo and they were good to go.  Unfortunately those rifles eventually got worn out and they also liked the idea of new free Colts from the generous USA aid grants.  

11B40 Vietnam 67-68
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I never saw an A2 loose zero. Even in a real war. Everyone marked their knob and knew how many clicks from the left their rear sight needed to be but I never saw anyone need to utilize those.

Sitting on overwatch it was nice to be able to adjust the elevation to the terrain. A poi/POA is much better than Kentucky windage if you have the time.

The rear sight is extremely rugged. The square front sight was better too.

I find the A2 incredibly well balanced and easy to shoot and I'm only 5'11
Link Posted: 7/22/2017 5:04:04 PM EDT
[#32]
Link Posted: 7/22/2017 7:35:57 PM EDT
[#33]
I really enjoyed your YouTube video on the design improvements you supervised for the A2 rifle!! And thank you for your overall service!!!

Can you cut through the fog for me and give tell me the procedure for zero for a M4 flat top carbine with the removable carry handle? There is so much fog between zero distance and rear sight elevation click for zero. I zeroed my 6920 this morning with the elevation wheel bottomed out @ 25m. What will my far zero be? Did I zero correctly? I see so much advise and sometimes I don't know whether they are talking about 20 inch rifle or carbines. Once again, thank you so much!
Link Posted: 7/23/2017 7:47:41 AM EDT
[#34]
Link Posted: 7/23/2017 10:30:02 AM EDT
[#35]
Excellent explanation, Cold Blue!  Particularly the impact of cheek weld on zero/sight alignment.

Air Force Basic Training rifle training was almost entirely "how not to hurt yourself with the rifle," and when I went through (1978...dark ages!) they used a .22 adapter in M16s to save money.  This was the legendary and awful USAF adapter, which was best at stopping and/or jamming, but not good at actually firing.



It was "semi-gas operated," so it got fouled inside and out.  Inconsistent to nonexistent cleaning of the units made them even less functional.

Needless to say, "qualifying" in Basic at the time was rare.  And of course you couldn't really learn anything about sight alignment with a weapon that didn't always fire when you pulled the trigger.  Fast forward 6 months and I was getting ready to PCS to a mobile comm unit in Germany, requiring M16 qualification.  I qualified "Expert" with an M16 (not A1) and M193 ammunition.  Not bragging here; Expert merely required hitting the full-size silhouette target 100 times, and the maximum range we fired from was 100 yards, but still...

While it's clear that the Air Force was and is not terribly fond of small arms, even the rudimentary stuff about sights sunk in and I did OK.  Now if they'd only spent a few minutes on where the "pocket" in the shoulder was, I'd have had a lot better time with just about every rifle...
Link Posted: 7/23/2017 5:25:15 PM EDT
[#36]
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 10:12:48 PM EDT
[#37]
LtCol. Sir, your service to the country and Corps is requested one last time. I need your help.

PM sent.

S/F
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 12:20:57 AM EDT
[#38]
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 1:18:25 AM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GS5414:
LtCol. Sir, your service to the country and Corps is requested one last time. I need your help.

PM sent.

S/F
View Quote
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 10:03:15 AM EDT
[#40]
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 5:37:48 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By coldblue:
If this is Neil, emails sent...to your .mil and .com
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Nothing has come through yet. Signals stuck in troposphere. Repeat fire mission!

S/F
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 6:10:31 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:
Why are others not as fat as Colt's?
View Quote
Because they're cheap crap? .
Seriously though, there is a distinct difference between a genuine Colt A2 grip and the aftermarket copies.
I have been buying them at Brownells two and three at a time whenever I place an order.
I think I'm up to about an even dozen now. .
Not only do they seem a bit fatter, but even the texture is somehow different.
Just an all around better feeling grip in my opinion.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 6:12:51 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GS5414:
Nothing has come through yet. Signals stuck in troposphere. Repeat fire mission!

S/F
View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By GS5414:
Originally Posted By coldblue:
If this is Neil, emails sent...to your .mil and .com
Nothing has come through yet. Signals stuck in troposphere. Repeat fire mission!

S/F
... . Am I the only one with an ear pressed to the door? . ... .
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 7:10:08 AM EDT
[#44]
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 8:36:22 AM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MRW:
I've tried many aftermarket grips and I always go back to the A2.

I guess I'm the army type
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Same... A2 and A1 for me. On some guns I just grind off the nub. 
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 10:58:55 AM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Gator57:

Because they're cheap crap? .
Seriously though, there is a distinct difference between a genuine Colt A2 grip and the aftermarket copies.
I have been buying them at Brownells two and three at a time whenever I place an order.
I think I'm up to about an even dozen now. .
Not only do they seem a bit fatter, but even the texture is somehow different.
Just an all around better feeling grip in my opinion.
View Quote
Totally agreee.  I don't really like the cheapy A2 grips but the colt one is really nice.  You wouldn't think it would make that much of a difference but the thickness really does.  I didn't used to mind cheap A2 grips, but one day I did.  LOL.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 4:33:52 PM EDT
[#47]
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Originally Posted By JJREA:
Totally agreee.  I don't really like the cheapy A2 grips but the colt one is really nice.  You wouldn't think it would make that much of a difference but the thickness really does.  I didn't used to mind cheap A2 grips, but one day I did.  LOL.
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Originally Posted By JJREA:
Originally Posted By Gator57:

Because they're cheap crap? .
Seriously though, there is a distinct difference between a genuine Colt A2 grip and the aftermarket copies.
I have been buying them at Brownells two and three at a time whenever I place an order.
I think I'm up to about an even dozen now. .
Not only do they seem a bit fatter, but even the texture is somehow different.
Just an all around better feeling grip in my opinion.
Totally agreee.  I don't really like the cheapy A2 grips but the colt one is really nice.  You wouldn't think it would make that much of a difference but the thickness really does.  I didn't used to mind cheap A2 grips, but one day I did.  LOL.
Yeah, I have been gradually swapping all of mine out to the genuine Colt grips.
And it is weird how much better they feel. You wouldn't think it would make much of a difference, but to me it's a definite, noticeable improvement.
Well worth the ten bucks.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 7:06:31 PM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Gator57:

Yeah, I have been gradually swapping all of mine out to the genuine Colt grips.
And it is weird how much better they feel. You wouldn't think it would make much of a difference, but to me it's a definite, noticeable improvement.
Well worth the ten bucks.
View Quote
I've never cared about grips much, and had no particular angst about the A2, but I tried the cheapo Tapco SAW grip and promptly got rid of most of my others.  I like that thing.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 5:35:01 AM EDT
[#49]
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Originally Posted By EVR:
I've never cared about grips much, and had no particular angst about the A2, but I tried the cheapo Tapco SAW grip and promptly got rid of most of my others.  I like that thing.
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Originally Posted By EVR:
Originally Posted By Gator57:

Yeah, I have been gradually swapping all of mine out to the genuine Colt grips.
And it is weird how much better they feel. You wouldn't think it would make much of a difference, but to me it's a definite, noticeable improvement.
Well worth the ten bucks.
I've never cared about grips much, and had no particular angst about the A2, but I tried the cheapo Tapco SAW grip and promptly got rid of most of my others.  I like that thing.
But for those of us that are going for the authentic look of the A2, only an A2 grip will do.
And of all of the various A2 grips out there, only the authentic Colt grip seems right to me.
I know it may seem trivial to most, but for me it's one of those small details that make a huge difference.
Fortunately, I happen to really like the A2 grip.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 1:03:56 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EVR:


I've never cared about grips much, and had no particular angst about the A2, but I tried the cheapo Tapco SAW grip and promptly got rid of most of my others.  I like that thing.
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LOL, you must like em thin....  Or who knows how that thing is shaped.  I know my RRA ones are definitely not the same width as my Colt.
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