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Posted: 7/14/2013 11:18:51 AM EDT
Went shooting with a buddy today with my suppressrd sbr. Were were shooting plates with mainly m193. We decided to push the yardage so I broke out some hornady 75 gr 5.56mm to see how it'd perform.
Threw mag in and let the bolt fly. Took careful aim at the plate. Squeezed trigger. Instead of the usual quiet suppressed gun shot it went BOOM. It took awhile for the dust to settle from all the gunpowder goin in the wrong direction. Other than a bad headache from the blast and the ringing in my ears im fine thankfully. So heres the run down on the ammo Hornady 5.56mm 75 grain bthp Lot#3130998 Damage. Thank god it was less severe than I figured. Finally got it apart. Bolt, mag, dust cover are shot. Really dont see anymore damage other than that. Bolt carrier looks fine. Upper reciever dont see any cracks or bends. Most importantly the lower doesnt look swelled. Class 3 and all the way it is thats what I was worried most about. Suppressor is also fine from what I can tell. Pics 
ETA more pics. It was a pain doing it from my phone 
Sorry for the bad pics. Hands still a bit shaky 
AMMO box 
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Posted: 7/14/2013 11:23:32 AM EDT
[#1]
glad you are OK
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Posted: 7/14/2013 11:23:47 AM EDT
[#2]
Damn. Glad you were not hurt man
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Posted: 7/14/2013 11:25:36 AM EDT
[#3]
Disassemble and take pics of the carrier.
Is the can still in good shape? You should probably send it back to the manufacurer for a tech inspection to be sure. Oops. See you have new pics now. |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 11:27:07 AM EDT
[#4]
Glad you are OK. Headspace issue?
And not to be a 'second-guesser,' but this points out that wearing ear pro is a wise choice, any time you are firing a gun - even one that you think is 'hearing safe.' |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 11:28:45 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Glad you are OK. Headspace issue? No. Rifle has been fine for several thousands of rounds. Was shooting a couple mags of m193 before with no issues, First round of the hornady blew the gun Im guessing overpressure or wrong powder |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 11:29:24 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Quoted: Glad you are OK. Headspace issue? No. Rifle has been fine for several thousands of rounds. Was shooting a couple mags of m193 before with no issues, First round of the hornady blew the gun Im guessing overpressure or wrong powder Check the COAL of M193 vs. Hornady 75gr. BTHP. |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 11:30:18 AM EDT
[#7]
Barrel is a centurion 12.5 before questions of was it a .223 chamber comes in
The chamber on the barrel is 5.56mm 1/7 |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 11:30:54 AM EDT
[#8]
Specs on upper?
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Posted: 7/14/2013 11:32:54 AM EDT
[#9]
Glad you're ok OP. Sorry to hear about this and hope the headache ex-fils soon.
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Posted: 7/14/2013 11:33:38 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Specs on upper? IA WAR upper. 12.5 centurion barrel Larue Gooseneck rail. Bolt and carrier are from a major player, dont recall who exactly though. Suppressor is a M4-2000 AAC |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 11:36:10 AM EDT
[#11]
Hornady 5.56mm 75 grain bthp
Lot#3130998 TAP T1C or TAP T2? |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 11:38:09 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
The chamber on the barrel is 5.56mm 1/7 How do you know? |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 11:38:40 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Hornady 5.56mm 75 grain bthp
Lot#3130998 TAP T1C or TAP T2? Not a TAP round I do not believe Ill post a pic of box to avoid confusion. Look up |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 11:39:17 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The chamber on the barrel is 5.56mm 1/7 How do you know? Because Ive been messing with AR15s most my life and I built this rifle. Barrel plainly says 5.56mm 1/7 ETA Im not trying to be a jackass with my response Manufacturers description 12.5inch carbine length, light weight Cold hammer forged M4 extended feed ramp 1:7 right hand twist with 5.56 Chamber taper bore HP/MPI tested Extra thick Chrome lining Mil Spec Phosphate finish ***Service life three times a standard barrel*** -1lb, 5.1oz Stripped / 1 lb, 7.1oz with pinned Centurion Arms gas bloc |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 11:44:46 AM EDT
[#15]
Barrel plainly says 5.56mm 1/7 My bushmaster brls say 5.56mm on them. But a few second with a 5.56mm chamber tool shows they are not. Never trust the manufacturer to understand the differences between .223, .223match, .223W or 5.56 or 5.56+ The manufacturer may not have even cut the chambers and throats himself. He may have allowed his tools to wear and his 5.56mm tool now cuts .223 instead. His tools may not be properly made and his 5.56 cutter was always really closer to .223. This applies to all manufacturers. If zombie Stoner worked at Colt and personally chambered my rifle I still verify before shooting 5.56mm heavy OTM loads. Verify the dimensions yourself prior to shooting Hornady 5.56mm 75Gn. |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 11:47:21 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Hornady 5.56mm 75 grain bthp
Lot#3130998 TAP T1C or TAP T2? Not a TAP round I do not believe Ill post a pic of box to avoid confusion. Look up Thanks. Is that the "super performance" load? |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 11:47:32 AM EDT
[#17]
Glad your ok and it wasn't worse... This is the first I've heard of Hornady ammo causing a Kaboom. I use their 75 grain .223 TAP for home defense. I'm going to check my lot numbers just in case. OP, please keep us posted as to what Hornady says and does and if they fix your rifle...
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Posted: 7/14/2013 11:49:04 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Hornady 5.56mm 75 grain bthp
Lot#3130998 TAP T1C or TAP T2? Not a TAP round I do not believe Ill post a pic of box to avoid confusion. Look up Thanks. Is that the "super performance" load? Correct |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 11:51:39 AM EDT
[#19]
Hornady will likely ask you for both the rifle and the ammunition to verify that they were at fault.
The chances of the barrel chamber being out of spec are extremely slim. I would like to take a look at the barrel chamber too (I'm a Centurion Arms distributor), but i'd not mess with anything until you get in contact with Hornady |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 11:53:58 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Hornady will likely ask you for both the rifle and the ammunition to verify that they were at fault. The chances of the barrel chamber being out of spec are extremely slim. I would like to take a look at the barrel chamber too (I'm a Centurion Arms distributor), but i'd not mess with anything until you get in contact with Hornady I have a feeling I wont get much recourse out of this. Its a home built rifle. Also Im not sure what I could do about shipping them my rifle as its a class 3 weapon. But Ive built several ARs and always headspace check them. I have never had a rifle built with new components fail a headspace guage, but I always check and this one was checked when I rebarreled and put a new bolt in it last year with the new centurion barrel. |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 12:00:45 PM EDT
[#21]
Glad to hear it wasn't worse OP.
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Posted: 7/14/2013 12:03:17 PM EDT
[#22]
- Link deleted by moderator. Links to that sight / vendor / forum are not allowed here. -
I remember reading somewhere that Hornady recommends that the superformance ammo only be used in rifle length systems... Google it and you will see a few posts on different forums... |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 12:05:46 PM EDT
[#23]
Interesting. Ive made my own MK262 loads that were super hot and had no problems with them. I figured this would be loaded less than my handloads. Looks like I was wrong |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 12:05:54 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: I have a feeling I wont get much recourse out of this. Its a home built rifle. Also Im not sure what I could do about shipping them my rifle as its a class 3 weapon. send the upper, or just barrel/bolt |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 12:07:18 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: - Link deleted by moderator. Links to that sight / vendor / forum are not allowed here. - I remember reading somewhere that Hornady recommends that the superformance ammo only be used in rifle length systems... Google it and you will see a few posts on different forums... different pressures curves dont kb rifles |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 12:07:49 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have a feeling I wont get much recourse out of this. Its a home built rifle. Also Im not sure what I could do about shipping them my rifle as its a class 3 weapon. send the upper, or just barrel/bolt Im gunna call them tomorrow and see what they say. Really the damage isnt bad. I just need a new barrel and bolt from the looks. Piss on the mag since the AWB didnt go through
Barrel may actually be fine, but Im not gunna trust it now |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 12:09:40 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Quoted: - Link deleted by moderator. Links to that sight / vendor / forum are not allowed here. - I remember reading somewhere that Hornady recommends that the superformance ammo only be used in rifle length systems... Google it and you will see a few posts on different forums... different pressures curves dont kb rifles He was using a suppressor witch could have raised the pressure even higher....... possibly.... |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 12:11:25 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: - Link deleted by moderator. Links to that sight / vendor / forum are not allowed here. - I remember reading somewhere that Hornady recommends that the superformance ammo only be used in rifle length systems... Google it and you will see a few posts on different forums... different pressures curves dont kb rifles He was using a suppressor witch could have raised the pressure even higher....... possibly.... A pressure spike like your talking would have wrecked the gas system, bolt carrier, and sheered the lugs off the bolt. The back of the casing and primer gave away, you can see where the pressure went directly down and mangled the mag and bullets. Casing gave away not the gas system |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 12:19:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Cell phone photos suck.
Glad you've got all your fingers (attached) and came out alright. 
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Posted: 7/14/2013 12:41:57 PM EDT
[#30]
another user posted the link to the Hornady website on the superformance load. It looks like you had all the variables going against you. Carbine gas system + a suppressor. I have shot the piss out of this load, and today is the first I have heard of this warning from Hornady.
Link again ETA: Link is to Hornady's site. |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 12:47:03 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
another user posted the link to the Hornady website on the superformance load. It looks like you had all the variables going against you. Carbine gas system + a suppressor. I have shot the piss out of this load, and today is the first I have heard of this warning from Hornady. Link again Be nice if it said that on the box. But yiur correct. Exactly what happened |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 12:48:33 PM EDT
[#32]
That should be on the box, no question.
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Posted: 7/14/2013 12:57:47 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
- Link deleted by moderator. Links to that sight / vendor / forum are not allowed here. - I remember reading somewhere that Hornady recommends that the superformance ammo only be used in rifle length systems... Google it and you will see a few posts on different forums... different pressures curves dont kb rifles +1 that was clearly not caused by extra pressure returning through the gas system. Glad you are OK... that really sucks that it happened to a class 3 rifle but it does look like the lower is fine at least. Could have been worse for sure. |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 1:10:46 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
- Link deleted by moderator. Links to that sight / vendor / forum are not allowed here. - I remember reading somewhere that Hornady recommends that the superformance ammo only be used in rifle length systems... Google it and you will see a few posts on different forums... different pressures curves dont kb rifles +1 that was clearly not caused by extra pressure returning through the gas system. Glad you are OK... that really sucks that it happened to a class 3 rifle but it does look like the lower is fine at least. Could have been worse for sure. I agree with you guys for sure, but whats with the stupid warning. Im interested because I have a range trip planned for tomorrow and was planning on shooting some of the same ammo. ETA: After reading the page again, more slowly for my small brain to understand, it doesn't explicitly say NOT to use this ammo in gas guns. It just says it works better in some configurations. I take this to mean, dont expect the increased velocity in carbines. |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 1:41:21 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
- Link deleted by moderator. Links to that sight / vendor / forum are not allowed here. - I remember reading somewhere that Hornady recommends that the superformance ammo only be used in rifle length systems... Google it and you will see a few posts on different forums... different pressures curves dont kb rifles +1 that was clearly not caused by extra pressure returning through the gas system. Glad you are OK... that really sucks that it happened to a class 3 rifle but it does look like the lower is fine at least. Could have been worse for sure. Really? From the Hornandy link, read both paragraphs (the bold red is mine): Due to the longer duration of peak pressure produced by Superformance™, the post peak/declining port pressure at common carbine and mid-length gas port locations is still higher than that produced by standard propellant. This has a tendency to flood the system with a larger volume of gas, at a higher velocity, that tries to open the bolt of the gun too fast. It’s a timing issue. The cartridge case is still swollen from the application of pressure during firing while the gun is simultaneously trying to extract the cartridge case before it has had an opportunity to settle back to its original size, or more simply: the gun is still in the process or firing while it’s trying to extract the cartridge case.
If the firearm and the ammunition are not in sync, there can be what is commonly identified as “pressure signs” on the cartridge case. This is exhibited by the movement/marring of the head of the cartridge case, cratered primers, flat primers, ripped or ruptured cartridge cases, “popped primers”, and/or any combination of these effects. If any of these “pressure signs” are apparent, stop firing immediately. If an adjustable gas system is installed, it is advisable to reduce the amount of gas flowing through the system by closing the gas port until the gun operates correctly. Seems like it could be exactly that. |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 2:05:52 PM EDT
[#36]
thats what I was thinking at first, but it does seem extreme considering his bolt and magazine are not paperweights.
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Posted: 7/14/2013 2:08:45 PM EDT
[#37]
From the warning in the link:
the gun is still in the process or firing while it’s trying to extract the cartridge case.
Sounds like a prime example of what could cause a kb (case rupture from lack of support) to me. YMMV. Seems to me Hornady is culpable (ie: no warning on the box, etc.). |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 2:20:55 PM EDT
[#38]
No chance of a squib from the last m193 round? Was the m193 remanufactured ammo or factory?
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Posted: 7/14/2013 2:40:24 PM EDT
[#39]
I'd like to shoot this ammo out of a newer build that utilizes a Noveske 18" LW barrel, intermediate gas system, NO suppressor.
Anyone shed light as to if I'm GTG on that? |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 2:51:07 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
I'd like to shoot this ammo out of a newer build that utilizes a Noveske 18" LW barrel, intermediate gas system, NO suppressor. Anyone shed light as to if I'm GTG on that? Why dont you read the info in the link to the Hornady website :) ..... "Due to the longer duration of peak pressure produced by Superformance™, the post peak/declining pressure at common carbine and mid-length gas port locations is still higher than that produced by standard propellant. However, there is very little difference in port pressure between Superformance™ and standard propellants at the rifle length port location." |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 2:58:34 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
No chance of a squib from the last m193 round? Was the m193 remanufactured ammo or factory? Everything I shot today was factory. I believe the m193 was federal No no chance of a squib. Barrel seems to be okay as far as I can tell |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 3:04:51 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
From the warning in the link: the gun is still in the process or firing while it’s trying to extract the cartridge case.
Sounds like a prime example of what could cause a kb (case rupture from lack of support) to me. YMMV. Seems to me Hornady is culpable (ie: no warning on the box, etc.). Yeah you would think they would put a warning label on the box for this ammo...... |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 3:05:26 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'd like to shoot this ammo out of a newer build that utilizes a Noveske 18" LW barrel, intermediate gas system, NO suppressor. Anyone shed light as to if I'm GTG on that? Why dont you read the info in the link to the Hornady website :) ..... "Due to the longer duration of peak pressure produced by Superformance™, the post peak/declining pressure at common carbine and mid-length gas port locations is still higher than that produced by standard propellant. However, there is very little difference in port pressure between Superformance™ and standard propellants at the rifle length port location." I did read it, yes. As you quoted, it mentions carbine/mid, and rifle length specifically. Was just curious if anyone had experience shooting this load with intermediate length systems. Thanks |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 4:07:58 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
I did read it, yes. As you quoted, it mentions carbine/mid, and rifle length specifically. Was just curious if anyone had experience shooting this load with intermediate length systems. Thanks I have in two different rifles. Bcm ss410 middy, and a 16" LWRC m6spr. Around 100 rounds total, and I never had an issue. I wrote Hornady asking about this issue, and am awaiting a reply. |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 4:18:07 PM EDT
[#45]
Wow.
Any ammo can blow your gun up even if its factory.
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Posted: 7/14/2013 4:52:52 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Wow. Any ammo can blow your gun up even if its factory. Its a conspiracy man... they are trying to take away our guns by blowing them up 
Home built rifle or not, I'm willing to bet Hornady will step up anyways. Even Ultramax replaced a guys home brew here a couple months back.. |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 5:44:20 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The chamber on the barrel is 5.56mm 1/7 How do you know? Because Ive been messing with AR15s most my life and I built this rifle. Barrel plainly says 5.56mm 1/7 ETA Im not trying to be a jackass with my response Manufacturers description 12.5inch carbine length, light weight Cold hammer forged M4 extended feed ramp 1:7 right hand twist with 5.56 Chamber taper bore HP/MPI tested Extra thick Chrome lining Mil Spec Phosphate finish ***Service life three times a standard barrel*** -1lb, 5.1oz Stripped / 1 lb, 7.1oz with pinned Centurion Arms gas bloc Hmmmmmmm. I'm guessing the tapered bore did it. Round couldn't get out an blew the gun. Seriously, WTF is a taper bore? Been around guns for a very long time and never heard of that. |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 5:50:55 PM EDT
[#48]
Not that uncommon. Easy to do on a hammer forged barrel.
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Posted: 7/14/2013 6:33:13 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Hornady will likely ask you for both the rifle and the ammunition to verify that they were at fault. The chances of the barrel chamber being out of spec are extremely slim. I would like to take a look at the barrel chamber too (I'm a Centurion Arms distributor), but i'd not mess with anything until you get in contact with Hornady +1 I doubt the barrel had anything at all to do with the failure, unless there are a lot of M249 SAWs out there with out of spec chambers.... evl.... |
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Posted: 7/14/2013 6:41:09 PM EDT
[#50]
Again, from the Hornady info:
"If the firearm and the ammunition are not in sync, there can be what is commonly identified as “pressure signs” on the cartridge case. This is exhibited by the movement/marring of the head of the cartridge case, cratered primers, flat primers, ripped or ruptured cartridge cases, “popped primers”, and/or any combination of these effects. If any of these “pressure signs” are apparent, stop firing immediately." Wow. Well, it's not like OP really got a chance to check for signs of overpressure, eh? But he did indeed stop firing immediately. <insert laughing to keep from crying emoticon here> Seems Hornady really might oughtta be on the hook for this -- I'm not one to call for more package labeling law almost always, but this really seems beyond the pale. - OS |
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