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Seattle206
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Posted: 6/12/2013 5:44:43 PM
Ordered two of these are back up BCG's since they are so cheap. Anybody have any first hand experience with these BCG from AIM? Who makes these?

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XDADBCG10016
wagonwheel1
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Posted: 6/12/2013 7:30:23 PM
Great price. The panic must be over.
MadnessReigns
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Posted: 6/12/2013 10:10:35 PM

Originally Posted By wagonwheel1:
Great price. The panic must be over.

AND they stayed in stock more than 5 minutes, it must have been about a week so far and they're still in stock
HemiWes
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Posted: 6/12/2013 10:56:26 PM
I ordered one last night. Aim stands behind their products and it's got a 9310 bolt so I'm not worried. They have the DSA bcg's with a 9310 bolt also
762minigun2
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Posted: 6/13/2013 4:07:09 PM
Don't these have the cast or MIM gas keys everyone is so up in arms over?
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llaht
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Posted: 6/13/2013 7:24:58 PM
Looks like it...
what's the 'final verdict' on these???
FIELDSofFIRE
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Posted: 6/13/2013 8:22:34 PM
Originally Posted By 762minigun2:
Don't these have the cast or MIM gas keys everyone is so up in arms over?


I am unaware of this and already ordered one. Can you elaborate on this or give some direction as to where I can research this issue myself? Thanks
762minigun2
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Posted: 6/14/2013 1:40:14 AM
Originally Posted By FIELDSofFIRE:
Originally Posted By 762minigun2:
Don't these have the cast or MIM gas keys everyone is so up in arms over?


I am unaware of this and already ordered one. Can you elaborate on this or give some direction as to where I can research this issue myself? Thanks


http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/612518_Who_wants_to_return_their_PSA_BCG_s_because_they_are_not_happy_with_the_quality_of_workmanship_.html



Start here... They look like the same key PSA is or was using..
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JimboJones1
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Posted: 6/14/2013 8:21:07 AM
Oh they're sold out now. I'll check the BCG dealio again in like 6 months and then hopefully order some 'mil spec' for $150-$170 again.
DSArms_FAL
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Posted: 6/14/2013 12:21:08 PM
Our(DSArms) BCGs do not have cast or MIM gas keys they are machined from billet.

Thanks
alaskas
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Posted: 6/14/2013 1:18:24 PM
Originally Posted By DSArms_FAL:
Our(DSArms) BCGs do not have cast or MIM gas keys they are machined from billet.

Thanks


No one said that DSA BCGs have cast or MIM gas keys. The DSA BCGs are not even mentioned in this thread. AIM does sell other brands (and non-brands, in this case).
MRW
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Posted: 6/14/2013 1:22:20 PM

Originally Posted By HemiWes:
I ordered one last night. Aim stands behind their products and it's got a 9310 bolt so I'm not worried. They have the DSA bcg's with a 9310 bolt also

yes, they were mentioned in this thread. DSA is just protecting their reputation.

I'll probably order the DSA one anyway
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airgunner
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Posted: 6/14/2013 3:31:23 PM
Originally Posted By 762minigun2:
Don't these have the cast or MIM gas keys everyone is so up in arms over?


LMT has been using MIM gas keys for a few years now and it hasn't been an issue that I'm aware of? I know mine works just fine.
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SGLA2110
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Posted: 6/14/2013 3:48:19 PM
[Last Edit: 6/14/2013 3:59:11 PM by SGLA2110]
LMT on MIM keys:


http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/LMT/Gas%20Key%20Study%20Response%20June%202009.pdf

Some guys need to lower their dose of sugar in the TactiKoolAid
deuc224
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Posted: 6/14/2013 6:36:13 PM
+100
PursuitSS
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Posted: 6/14/2013 8:38:04 PM
Originally Posted By SGLA2110:
LMT on MIM keys:


http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/LMT/Gas%20Key%20Study%20Response%20June%202009.pdf

Some guys need to lower their dose of sugar in the TactiKoolAid


Of course LMT is going tio defend the fact that they are using MIM crap! Do you expect them to come out and state it can fail at any time?

Smith & Wesson's Custom Shop was asked why they refuse to use MIM parts by American Handgunner.

Their comment was "It may be good enough for standard S&W's, it's NOT good enough for us!"

Ask Ron Power of Power Custom (regarded as the #1 S&W pistolsmith in the world!} what he thinks of MIM. He will tell you it's crap!
"When trading bullets it is better to give than to receive"

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Seattle206
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Posted: 7/22/2013 1:12:41 AM
Sorry to bring my old thread alive but I received my two AIM BCG's a few weeks back.

My initial impressions:

Looks like the gas key and the extractor is MIM.

The staking is very minimal. One BCG was only minimally staked on one side of gas key. I notified AIM about this but I think it's too much of a hassle to ship back so I will re-stake myself.

scoutfsu99
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Posted: 7/22/2013 6:39:02 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By PursuitSS:
Originally Posted By SGLA2110:
LMT on MIM keys:


http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/LMT/Gas%20Key%20Study%20Response%20June%202009.pdf

Some guys need to lower their dose of sugar in the TactiKoolAid


Of course LMT is going tio defend the fact that they are using MIM crap! Do you expect them to come out and state it can fail at any time?

Smith & Wesson's Custom Shop was asked why they refuse to use MIM parts by American Handgunner.

Their comment was "It may be good enough for standard S&W's, it's NOT good enough for us!"

Ask Ron Power of Power Custom (regarded as the #1 S&W pistolsmith in the world!} what he thinks of MIM. He will tell you it's crap!



Has anyone shown/ experienced a messed up key from LMT?
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gsd2053
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Posted: 7/22/2013 10:35:49 AM
Anyone else notice in the pic all the gas rings are lined up?

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XDADBCG10016
PursuitSS
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Posted: 7/22/2013 11:44:16 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By scoutfsu99:
Originally Posted By PursuitSS:
Originally Posted By SGLA2110:
LMT on MIM keys:


http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/LMT/Gas%20Key%20Study%20Response%20June%202009.pdf

Some guys need to lower their dose of sugar in the TactiKoolAid


Of course LMT is going tio defend the fact that they are using MIM crap! Do you expect them to come out and state it can fail at any time?

Smith & Wesson's Custom Shop was asked why they refuse to use MIM parts by American Handgunner.

Their comment was "It may be good enough for standard S&W's, it's NOT good enough for us!"

Ask Ron Power of Power Custom (regarded as the #1 S&W pistolsmith in the world!} what he thinks of MIM. He will tell you it's crap!



Has anyone shown/ experienced a messed up key from LMT?


As long as SOMEONE offers NON-MIM parts I refuse to purchase that SHIT!!!

As too failures, all you have to do is a search of the 'net. Plenty of FIRST HAND reports, I personally know several people who have had MIM failures (one was an employee of mine).

The ONLY reason MIM exists is to cut costs!
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Bryan_Aim
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Posted: 7/22/2013 11:58:37 AM
the carrier key is investment cast, still waiting to see one fail
we have sold over 5,000 and used them to build 400 uppers. BUT if one does, we will replace it.

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Posted: 7/22/2013 12:04:49 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Bryan_Aim:
the carrier key is investment cast, still waiting to see one fail
we have sold over 5,000 and used them to build 400 uppers. BUT if one does, we will replace it.

Bryan
Aim


Investment cast is fine!

Glad to hear you are resisting the MIM downward spiral
"When trading bullets it is better to give than to receive"

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brasidas
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Posted: 7/22/2013 2:47:46 PM
[Last Edit: 7/22/2013 2:51:00 PM by brasidas]
I'm not up to date on what is cast v. MIM, but the gas key and extractor have injection markings of some sort.

I thought MIM was superior to casting for small parts, especially those with complex shapes like the gas key. The MIM process seems kind of ideal for the gas key, where precision and lack of defects would be paramount.

I think an extractor made from tool steel (which I believe the spec calls for) would be better, as it seems that part would suffer from quite a bit of wear and need to be fairly strong. I have read that spec calls for S2 tool steel for the extractor and pin, but I guess that is bascially unobtanium unless you order like 12 tons of it. I know some manufacturers are using S7 tool steel. I'd probably rather have that than a MIM or cast extractor.

The AIM bolt seems pretty nice for the price. Whether that is good enough is pretty much impossible to answer. A bolt could be made of the "wrong" metal and we would never know it. Maybe the "wrong" material is 99% as good as the "right" metal - or maybe the "wrong" material is actually better than the "right" stuff (as may be the case with C158 v. 9310 bolts). Or maybe it is the "right" metal, but it is heat treated improperty. That is probably more critical than what type of steel it is. If you are not buying Colt (or maybe the one or two other manufacturers who 100% follow spec) you are taking a risk. The nice thing about buying from AIM is the reasonable price and the fact that they will stand behind their product.

I thought the staking looked fine on the AIM bolt I received.
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Posted: 7/22/2013 3:28:16 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By brasidas:
I'm not up to date on what is cast v. MIM, but the gas key and extractor have injection markings of some sort.

I thought MIM was superior to casting for small parts, especially those with complex shapes like the gas key. The MIM process seems kind of ideal for the gas key, where precision and lack of defects would be paramount.



An example of MIM, pay CLOSE attention to the last line of information. Keep in mind Remington Arms is now one of the largest firearms users of MIM parts. If MIM is so damn great WHY is Remington making a point of NOT USING IT in critical parts of their Law Enforcement shotguns????



REMINGTON ARMS COMPANY, LE DIVISION
Important differences between Remington 870 Police and 870 Express shotguns
The 870 Express has been an important part of Remington’s offering to the sporting market.
It was designed to meet a price point in the commercial market while still providing classic 870 functionality.
All of Remington’s 870’s have interchangeable parts, even if they have cosmetic differences.
It is also important to note that many manufacturers use the 870 Express platform for their Police / Combat models.
Without exception, every manufacturer who utilizes our 870 platform serves to upgrade their system to a more efficient, street worthy platform.
While the 870 Express is still an 870, the best pump shotgun on the market, there are some very important cosmetic and functional differences between it and the 870 Police.
To our customers in Law Enforcement, Military, Corrections, and Security, whose lives depend upon the unfailing performance of Remington shotguns, the Police modifications are of paramount importance. Synopses of the variances are provided below.

• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.

• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.

• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.

• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.

• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.

• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.

• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.

• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.

• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.

• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.

• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.

• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.

• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system.

• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.


• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.
"When trading bullets it is better to give than to receive"

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Eric802
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Posted: 7/22/2013 4:00:54 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Bryan_Aim:
the carrier key is investment cast, still waiting to see one fail
we have sold over 5,000 and used them to build 400 uppers. BUT if one does, we will replace it.

Bryan
Aim


Since this seems to resolve any MIM issue with the BCG's that are the TOPIC of this thread, maybe we can get this back into its proper lane.

Hint: MIM is not the topic.
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Posted: 7/22/2013 11:25:05 PM
[Last Edit: 7/23/2013 12:10:52 AM by scoutfsu99]
nevermind
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