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Posted: 5/16/2013 3:51:00 PM EDT
[#1]
as it wears it would only get worse. im sure its not a single bolt issue.
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Posted: 5/16/2013 4:09:03 PM EDT
[#2]
All I can say is if you have a RCA and its headspaced wrong (douthful) you may need to check your barrel headspace.
The RCA's are as quality as you can get. If it is the BCG itself ,it would be a surprise to me. |
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Posted: 5/16/2013 4:16:08 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
All I can say is if you have a RCA and its headspaced wrong (douthful) you may need to check your barrel headspace. The RCA's are as quality as you can get. If it is the BCG itself ,it would be a surprise to me. He has checked head space with a different bolt. ^^ |
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Posted: 5/16/2013 4:37:55 PM EDT
[#4]
Correct, other BCGs work just fine with the gauge. The look and feel to the BCG is nice but the fit definitely isn't. I hope mine is just a single case, but as an engineer I know that there have to be others. I know a lot of people who don't check headspace, so I thought I would bring this to attention to hopefully save some people some issues.
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Posted: 5/16/2013 5:01:20 PM EDT
[#5]
Tag for RCA's response.
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Posted: 5/16/2013 5:10:29 PM EDT
[#6]
Kinda new to the forum so I don't know how to tag them. I can post what comes of it tomorrow, I'm going to call first thing in the morning. I want to make it clear that I'm not on here bashing them or anything, I just wanted to alert others as headspace issues can be dangerous.
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Posted: 5/16/2013 5:22:03 PM EDT
[#7]
This is exactly why I insist on checking headspace before firing a newly assembled rifle. There was a thread last week where lots of members suggested that it wasn't really necessary, and I just couldn't disagree more.
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Posted: 5/16/2013 5:24:04 PM EDT
[#8]
As do I...I'd rather be safe than sorry. We never checked with a field gauge to see if it was at its maximum tolerance, but with as easy as it closed on the no-go (slight pressure on the forward assist) it was enough to make me not want to fire it.
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Posted: 5/16/2013 5:25:23 PM EDT
[#9]
did you only try it on a no-go?
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Posted: 5/16/2013 6:15:05 PM EDT
[#10]
Bolts vary. I have change them before just to get some barrels to pass a go gauge.
the RCA was 2-3 thousandths deeper Not sure what was gained buy a measurement of the depth since it head spaces off the rear of the lugs to the bolt face.
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Posted: 5/16/2013 8:53:44 PM EDT
[#11]
Closed on a go, closed on a no-go, so the headspace is too large. Only tried the no-go with the other bolt that worked. At that point we measured from the bolt face to the front (rear?) of the lugs and found it to be deeper than a bolt that works, thereby making the headspace too large. Its hard to explain with not knowing the proper terminology for everything. From the face of the lugs that go toward the barrel to the bolt face (where the firing pin comes through) is deeper on the RCA than the others (if that makes any sense).
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Posted: 5/16/2013 9:49:54 PM EDT
[#12]
wrong thread
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Posted: 5/17/2013 8:18:42 AM EDT
[#13]
Spoke to Chris at RCA today. He was more than helpful and very friendly. He said this is the first case he has had of this. He was very motivated about getting to the bottom of what is going on and is having me send it back as he wants to have a look at the part himself. He's going to send me a new one out of the new batch. His machinist figures there was probably just a tolerance stack up issue, which I totally understand being possible, it could happen with any manufacturer. If my upper is at the top end of tolerances and the BCG is at their lower this could happen. He could have easily brushed me aside saying it was something I did, but instead jumped to action about figuring out what was going on and getting it fixed. Props to RCA, I would gladly do business again. This post should not deter anyone from ordering from them. This should serve as a reminder that while AR's are simple to assemble and rarely have issues, they can occur when combining parts from various manufacturers. Always check headspace! It's a tight tolerance to hold, and a 60 dollar set of gauges is a lot less money than a new upper if it blows apart, or worse yet, a trip to the ER. Props again to RCA and I will try to remember to update how the new BCG works.
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Posted: 5/17/2013 11:48:15 AM EDT
[#14]
Am glad things worked out. Also am glad they handled this professionally.
Stuff does happen, I wish I could say I never made mistakes (I still do unfortunately). Tolerance stacking happens more than we realize, yet often is not even caught. Probably the majority here would not catch that or even notice it as a problem (me included) If the bolt would not close on a Colt Field Gage, but would on a Go Gage- it's a go usually (and still considered safe) by armorers. BUT, by starting beyond a NOGO puts that combination pretty loose at the get-go. +1 for RCA here. |
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Posted: 5/17/2013 11:56:46 AM EDT
[#15]
I like it when a new company steps up and takes care of business. Always nice to see more options.
That, and they're from Akron, Ohio.
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Posted: 5/17/2013 5:18:29 PM EDT
[#16]
strange how you never hear about BCM or spikes having "stack up" issues.
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Posted: 5/18/2013 7:01:35 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
strange how you never hear about BCM or spikes having "stack up" issues. It definitely happens. |
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Posted: 5/18/2013 7:53:01 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
strange how you never hear about BCM or spikes having "stack up" issues. Look at the thread under this one. |
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Posted: 5/18/2013 10:52:29 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
This is exactly why I insist on checking headspace before firing a newly assembled rifle. There was a thread last week where lots of members suggested that it wasn't really necessary, and I just couldn't disagree more. +1. Always check headspace with new barrels or bolts. |
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Posted: 5/18/2013 10:54:20 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
wrong thread So is there now a "headspace" forum I don't know about?? |
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Posted: 5/18/2013 1:07:59 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
wrong thread So is there now a "headspace" forum I don't know about?? Pretty sure he just accidentally posted in the wrong thread... |
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Posted: 5/18/2013 3:54:06 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Bolts vary. I have change them before just to get some barrels to pass a go gauge. the RCA was 2-3 thousandths deeper Not sure what was gained buy a measurement of the depth since it head spaces off the rear of the lugs to the bolt face.If the bolt face was cut too deep, everything else could be at the infinitely proper dimension, and the rifle would still fail the NO GO gage. A NO GO gage indicates that the chamber is too large. How would a deeper bolt face not contribute to that? |
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Posted: 5/19/2013 12:46:16 PM EDT
[#23]
The OP has not said which nogo gage failed (5.56 or 223) or said which barrel he has.
Nor has he stated the measured depth of the bolt face. For all we know that bolt and barrel may pass a 1.4676” headspace gage which would be well within mil-spec for a new bolt/barrel. I have not run across a dimensioned bolt drawing so I am not sure what the tolerances are for a mil-spec bolt. In any event that RCA took the bolt back without a hassle says a lot about their customer service. |
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Posted: 5/19/2013 12:48:27 PM EDT
[#24]
Actually, it is a BCM upper and barrel that came with the barrel extension installed...two different manufacturers with different tolerance specs could inevitably wind up with two parts each on the opposite end of the spectrum that when combined fall outside of spec for the gun, its the nature of the game when using different manufacturers that don't work hand in hand.
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Posted: 5/19/2013 12:51:42 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
The OP has not said which nogo gage failed (5.56 or 223) or said which barrel he has. Nor has he stated the measured depth of the bolt face. For all we know that bolt and barrel may pass a 1.4676” headspace gage which would be well within mil-spec for a new bolt/barrel. I have not run across a dimensioned bolt drawing so I am not sure what the tolerances are for a mil-spec bolt. In any event that RCA took the bolt back without a hassle says a lot about their customer service. It was a 5.56 gauge, which is what the barrel is chambered for...I didn't measure the depth of the bolt face, my buddy did, it was 2-3 thousandths more than the BCG that it didn't close on, so I couldn't tell ya what the measurement actually was. I'm not one of those dumb mechanical engineers who just crunches numbers everyday, trust me, I know what I'm doing when it comes to working with my hands and building stuff (I'm a crew chief on monster trucks on the side). 
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Posted: 5/19/2013 12:54:54 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The OP has not said which nogo gage failed (5.56 or 223) or said which barrel he has. Nor has he stated the measured depth of the bolt face. For all we know that bolt and barrel may pass a 1.4676” headspace gage which would be well within mil-spec for a new bolt/barrel. I have not run across a dimensioned bolt drawing so I am not sure what the tolerances are for a mil-spec bolt. In any event that RCA took the bolt back without a hassle says a lot about their customer service. It was a 5.56, which is what the barrel is chambered for...I didn't measure the depth of the bolt face, my buddy did, it was 2-3 thousandths more than the BCG that it didn't close on. It is a BCM upper and barrel that came with the barrel extension installed...two different manufacturers with different tolerance specs could inevitably wind up with two parts each on the opposite end of the spectrum that when combined fall outside of spec for the gun, its the nature of the game when using different manufacturers that don't work hand in hand. It doesn't matter that it was two different manufacturers. Tolerance stacking can occur at the same facility, using the same machinery. |
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Posted: 5/19/2013 12:56:47 PM EDT
[#27]
Oh I know, it's happened to me before on one of my designs
 ...its just even more likely when its two different manufacturers.
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Posted: 5/19/2013 8:03:50 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The OP has not said which nogo gage failed (5.56 or 223) or said which barrel he has. Nor has he stated the measured depth of the bolt face. For all we know that bolt and barrel may pass a 1.4676” headspace gage which would be well within mil-spec for a new bolt/barrel. I have not run across a dimensioned bolt drawing so I am not sure what the tolerances are for a mil-spec bolt. In any event that RCA took the bolt back without a hassle says a lot about their customer service. It was a 5.56 gauge, which is what the barrel is chambered for...I didn't measure the depth of the bolt face, my buddy did, it was 2-3 thousandths more than the BCG that it didn't close on, so I couldn't tell ya what the measurement actually was. I'm not one of those dumb mechanical engineers who just crunches numbers everyday, trust me, I know what I'm doing when it comes to working with my hands and building stuff (I'm a crew chief on monster trucks on the side). If that was a 1.4706” headspace gage it sounds like your barrel is near max tolerance. |
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Posted: 5/19/2013 10:05:35 PM EDT
[#29]
I'm running a RCA bcg also in an Aero Precision Standard Configuration Upper with a Cross Machine Tool (CMT Tactical) 14.5" M4 41V50 barrel. I checked headspace using a Colt Field Gauge II (5.56mm); which it did pass the check.
Rubber City Armory, under their Limited Warranty Section, offers what I feel is an awesome warranty to the original purchaser. For one they warranty the life of their bolt carrier group which in the warranty states is a period of 20 years from the date you receive the bcg. They also have a 30 day no questions asked full refund (I'm not sure if this includes shipping charges though) return policy from the date you take possession of the bcg. The company is a subsidiary of H&M Metal Processing which has been around since 1946. Below are links to Rubber City Armory, and it's parent company. http://www.blacknitride.com/aboutus.html http://www.rubbercityarmory.com |
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Posted: 5/20/2013 4:37:18 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
I'm running a RCA bcg also in an Aero Precision Standard Configuration Upper with a Cross Machine Tool (CMT Tactical) 14.5" M4 41V50 barrel. I checked headspace using a Colt Field Gauge II (5.56mm); which it did pass the check. Rubber City Armory, under their Limited Warranty Section, offers what I feel is an awesome warranty to the original purchaser. For one they warranty the life of their bolt carrier group which in the warranty states is a period of 20 years from the date you receive the bcg. They also have a 30 day no questions asked full refund (I'm not sure if this includes shipping charges though) return policy from the date you take possession of the bcg. The company is a subsidiary of H&M Metal Processing which has been around since 1946. Below are links to Rubber City Armory, and it's parent company. http://www.blacknitride.com/aboutus.html http://www.rubbercityarmory.com AFAIK mil-spec allows up to .0028” headspace change in the first fifty rounds. If a bolt/barrel fails the 1.4706” gage unfired then after breakin a weapon could be virtually out of room for headspace wear or even fail the Field gage. If the OP had not used a Nogo gage this is the situation he would be in. |
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Posted: 5/20/2013 9:48:26 AM EDT
[#31]
H&M is a fantastic company, we've been doing business with them for some time now.
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Posted: 5/20/2013 11:37:36 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm running a RCA bcg also in an Aero Precision Standard Configuration Upper with a Cross Machine Tool (CMT Tactical) 14.5" M4 41V50 barrel. I checked headspace using a Colt Field Gauge II (5.56mm); which it did pass the check. Rubber City Armory, under their Limited Warranty Section, offers what I feel is an awesome warranty to the original purchaser. For one they warranty the life of their bolt carrier group which in the warranty states is a period of 20 years from the date you receive the bcg. They also have a 30 day no questions asked full refund (I'm not sure if this includes shipping charges though) return policy from the date you take possession of the bcg. The company is a subsidiary of H&M Metal Processing which has been around since 1946. Below are links to Rubber City Armory, and it's parent company. http://www.blacknitride.com/aboutus.html http://www.rubbercityarmory.com AFAIK mil-spec allows up to .0028” headspace change in the first fifty rounds. If a bolt/barrel fails the 1.4706” gage unfired then after breakin a weapon could be virtually out of room for headspace wear or even fail the Field gage. If the OP had not used a Nogo gage this is the situation he would be in. I think you may be reading into my post; which it's not making a comparison with the original posters dilemma. It was made due to him recommending other RCA owners to check the headspace; so my post is to reference what another RCA owner's configuration is, and the gauge that was used, as well as, his outcome. I checked off a Colt Field II Gauge, not the Colt Field Gauge, being its the maximum headspace measurement before the barrel is no longer usable for a 5.56 NATO barrel being at 1.4736". Keep in mind the US ARMY allows more headspace before failure than the USMC (going off memory). Since my carbine is a citizen rifle, I'm concerned with the the utmost maximum before I will have to change out barrels. Which I'm sure will be some time before that comes about, not shooting the amount of rounds in combat in auto or burst, and not seeing the conditions seen in country for anyone who is not a REMF. |
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Posted: 5/20/2013 12:39:25 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm running a RCA bcg also in an Aero Precision Standard Configuration Upper with a Cross Machine Tool (CMT Tactical) 14.5" M4 41V50 barrel. I checked headspace using a Colt Field Gauge II (5.56mm); which it did pass the check. Rubber City Armory, under their Limited Warranty Section, offers what I feel is an awesome warranty to the original purchaser. For one they warranty the life of their bolt carrier group which in the warranty states is a period of 20 years from the date you receive the bcg. They also have a 30 day no questions asked full refund (I'm not sure if this includes shipping charges though) return policy from the date you take possession of the bcg. The company is a subsidiary of H&M Metal Processing which has been around since 1946. Below are links to Rubber City Armory, and it's parent company. http://www.blacknitride.com/aboutus.html http://www.rubbercityarmory.com AFAIK mil-spec allows up to .0028” headspace change in the first fifty rounds. If a bolt/barrel fails the 1.4706” gage unfired then after breakin a weapon could be virtually out of room for headspace wear or even fail the Field gage. If the OP had not used a Nogo gage this is the situation he would be in. I think you may be reading into my post; which it's not making a comparison with the original posters dilemma. It was made due to him recommending other RCA owners to check the headspace; so my post is to reference what another RCA owner's configuration is, and the gauge that was used, as well as, his outcome. I checked off a Colt Field II Gauge, not the Colt Field Gauge, being its the maximum headspace measurement before the barrel is no longer usable for a 5.56 NATO barrel being at 1.4736". Keep in mind the US ARMY allows more headspace before failure than the USMC (going off memory). Since my carbine is a citizen rifle, I'm concerned with the the utmost maximum before I will have to change out barrels. Which I'm sure will be some time before that comes about, not shooting the amount of rounds in combat in auto or burst, and not seeing the conditions seen in country for anyone who is not a REMF. Actually that was just my roundabout way of saying the Colt Field gage is not the reject limit for a new 5.56 barrel. |
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