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Basic
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Posted: 4/30/2013 12:31:50 AM EST
I know both BCM and PSA lowers are solid (and hear more about BCM). In comparison how does PSA stand up to BCM? Are they pretty much on par for quality?
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 1:09:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/30/2013 1:10:22 AM EST by iNeXile556]
No.
PSA is a dealer, they don't make anything.
BCM is a manufacturer.
Quality wise they are miles apart. BCM trumps PSA.

As far as basic stripped lowers go they are both more or less equal.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 2:14:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/30/2013 2:15:46 AM EST by albatrossarmament]
I disagree with the above statement. I think they are about the same quality, same specs, and sometimes PSA has a better barrel (cold-hammer forged by FN).

I sometimes drink the Bravo Company cool-aid too, but if you want an accurate assessment of quality, you have to tell us specifically what parts you want to compare.

Does BCM machine and anodize thier lowers in-house? I didnt think that was the case.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 2:17:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By iNeXile556:
No.
PSA is a dealer, they don't make anything.
BCM is a manufacturer.
Quality wise they are miles apart. BCM trumps PSA.

As far as basic stripped lowers go they are both more or less equal.


I disagree, as far as uppers go anyway. They look to be about equal in terms of quality. Comparing the two side by side there is very little difference in the fit and finish and the rifles that I shot were both more accurate than I am.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 2:20:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/30/2013 2:21:40 AM EST by Rockyriver]
BCM rocks on shipping time, they are super quick.
PSA rocks on price, however PSA sucks on shipping time, they are slow as molasses sometimes.
As far as quality they are about the same.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 3:12:21 AM EST
IDK, but I just bought a lower and a barreled upper from PSA and the quality of both is outstanding. That was my first experience with them and I'm impressed. Shipping wasn't immediate, but it tells you that on the website. Took about 10 days for the lower and about 3 weeks for the upper.

Well worth the wait.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 3:12:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By iNeXile556:
No.
PSA is a dealer, they don't make anything.
BCM is a manufacturer.
Quality wise they are miles apart. BCM trumps PSA.

As far as basic stripped lowers go they are both more or less equal.


I disagreed until I read that last line. OP mentioned lower receivers, if that is all you are comparing, they are both forged 7075 aluminum. You won't find a difference in either. Every PSA lower I have built has had no finish or fit issues whatsoever. Just because it's stamped BCM on the side doesn't provide any inherent super quality madness justifying the price difference, IMO. I also believe the uppers are pretty hard to beat for the price, as said, FN CHF barrels have been proven to be pretty great pieces.

I can't speak for BCM's shipping, as anything I've ever wanted there is usually not in stock. PSA's order processing and shipping is horrible, but I can drive an hour and pick up anything I want for a short wait in line.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 3:33:45 AM EST
Which ever has the better price.. PSA & BCM lowers are about equal, both will serve you well... if you want a kit BCM put together rifle so you can tell buddies yea I got a BCM then theirs your awnser.. but both will be equal. Del-ton makes a decent 7075 t-6 alum forged lower for a good price too.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 3:38:44 AM EST
I have rifles by both. BCM exceeds PSA in quality control on assembly of uppers, and in shipping time.

PSA has better pricing, but so-so customer service. PSA suffered from growing pains but is striving to improve.

Both companies were founded by veterans.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 3:46:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/30/2013 3:48:20 AM EST by PreachermanMATT]
I've had 4+ of each in uppers and 2+ of each in lowers...Are many of the parts the same spec? Yes, "on paper".

But i have received uppers from PSA with the wrong gas system, or a rail not properly alligned. ---They'll fix it, but it takes 2+ weeks to get it out the first time. so now it's a month to get your upper out-correctly. And they charge when you order, not when they ship.

I also have had complete PSA lowers with different tolerances on the same PSA upper...


On the other, BCM has never taken over 48 hours to get an order out-correctly- the first time (in my experience). They charge when your stuff ships.

Also, considering price, when PSA was 20%+ less than BCM it was hands down the best budget build you could get---that can still be done from time to time with PSA (I.e. the $700 middy premium with MBUS and Aimpoint PRO-that's a $300 Premium with free MBUS, and a $400 Scope that you could split with if you want-in my book-a great buy- So I got one )

PSA is a major vendor who moves alot of product, and thus as others have said, are not always on target in matching product and order.

BCM built their reputation not on price but quality and service.

Both are 'good', but the same? NO!
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 3:52:35 AM EST
As far as stripped lowers go OP, BCM and PSA will be on par with each other. Complete rifles on the other hand, I would much rather have a BCM rifle. My recent experience with PSA's customer service was pretty miserable. I was initially told to go pound sand for a barrel PSA sent me with a crooked barrel extension & FSB. Once management got involved after I posted pics and gripes here on ARFcom they made things right but, it never should have came to that in the first place...
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 3:58:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By PreachermanMATT:
I've had 4+ of each in uppers and 2+ of each in lowers...Are many of the parts the same spec? Yes, "on paper".

But i have received uppers from PSA with the wrong gas system, or a rail not properly alligned. ---They'll fix it, but it takes 2+ weeks to get it out the first time. so now it's a month to get your upper out-correctly. And they charge when you order, not when they ship.

I also have had complete PSA lowers with different tolerances on the same PSA upper...


On the other, BCM has never taken over 48 hours to get an order out-correctly- the first time (in my experience). They charge when your stuff ships.

Both are 'good', but the same? NO!


Strange. I've only had 3 uppers from PSA, but none had any issue whatsoever. Two plain M4 Madness uppers neither had a canted front sight or anything, then my midlength CHF barreled SQR upper was absolutely perfect as well. All of which fit both my 2 PSA lowers and 1 DPMS lower with zero slop.

Again, though I may have a small sample size, the PSA and BCM uppers I've compared and shot are damn near identical in build quality, fit and finish, and performance.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 4:05:23 AM EST
My current build has both PSA and BCM parts. I expect it to be well above mil-spec in quality and as tough as you would ever need.

I consider both to be high quality.

YMMV
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 4:12:54 AM EST
I keep waiting for the big Kool-Aid man to bust through the wall on this thread.



You know how I know you're a fanboy and to totally disregard anything you say about these rifles? Dude asks about the difference in 2 identical lower receivers and you start ranting about customer service and comparing the companies They are identical Ghostbear, buy either based on cost or based on which roll marks you prefer. In the grand scheme, you're going to get your lower soon enough if it's in stock, and it's very unlikely you're going to need to deal with customer service on a stripped lower. I would bet $100 that both companies will send the right part and get it right (they do most of the time) barring an ordering mistake on your end.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 4:20:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By whollyshite:
I expect it to be well above mil-spec in quality and as tough as you would ever need.



Neither are "above Mil-Spec in quality". From what I've seen, BCM desperately tries to match Colt's quality control measures as closely as possible so they can claim that their product IS Mil-Spec.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 4:20:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/30/2013 4:25:34 AM EST by thornejc]
If you are worried about price go with PSA... otherwise go with BCM if you have the option. PSA is just a distributor so everything is out-sourced and assembled in house. They went through a kinda shaky period where they couldn't get to much right but they seem to be doing well now. I believe that you are going to have better luck with a BCM if you are going to run the shit out of it but PSA makes a fine rifle too. My friend has one of the 1st 20 rifles they ever put out and it has held up well. However, I personally would spend the extra money on a BCM... they have a really good rep for quality and customer service if something were to go wrong.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 4:30:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By Synyster06Gates:
Originally Posted By PreachermanMATT:
I've had 4+ of each in uppers and 2+ of each in lowers...Are many of the parts the same spec? Yes, "on paper".

But i have received uppers from PSA with the wrong gas system, or a rail not properly alligned. ---They'll fix it, but it takes 2+ weeks to get it out the first time. so now it's a month to get your upper out-correctly. And they charge when you order, not when they ship.

I also have had complete PSA lowers with different tolerances on the same PSA upper...


On the other, BCM has never taken over 48 hours to get an order out-correctly- the first time (in my experience). They charge when your stuff ships.

Both are 'good', but the same? NO!


Strange. I've only had 3 uppers from PSA, but none had any issue whatsoever. Two plain M4 Madness uppers neither had a canted front sight or anything, then my midlength CHF barreled SQR upper was absolutely perfect as well. All of which fit both my 2 PSA lowers and 1 DPMS lower with zero slop.

Again, though I may have a small sample size, the PSA and BCM uppers I've compared and shot are damn near identical in build quality, fit and finish, and performance.


Man this is the type of shit i hate... the whole well i shot both of them and they seemed the same to me. Yea... i have shot both of them too and they both work fine but it is about putting out a consistent quality product and backing it. And the whole zero slop thing lies. Unless you are rocking like an LMT MRP you are going to have slop... technically, A LITTLE is supposed to be there to facilitate breaking it down in the field.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 4:53:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/30/2013 4:56:03 AM EST by Synyster06Gates]
Originally Posted By thornejc:

Man this is the type of shit i hate... the whole well i shot both of them and they seemed the same to me. Yea... i have shot both of them too and they both work fine but it is about putting out a consistent quality product and backing it. And the whole zero slop thing lies. Unless you are rocking like an LMT MRP you are going to have slop... technically, A LITTLE is supposed to be there to facilitate breaking it down in the field.


Maybe your definition of slop vs mine is different. I consider "slop" a noticeable amount of movement between the receivers when they are together. My PSA rifles have a noticeable amount of "friction" if you will and the lugs fit tight in the lower. I've played with rifles that you could hear shifting around when you moved. Get off your high horse, I was mentioning my experience with each company. To me, PSA has been VERY consistent and put out quality product. No need to get butthurt that someone has a different opinion than you.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 5:33:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/30/2013 5:34:53 AM EST by Medicfrost]
With BCM, you will consistently get top notch parts. PSA seems to be a mystery at times. Is the buffer tube 6061 vs. 7075? Bolts that may be MPI, or they may not be (I don't believe they ever HPT them.) Carriers with a hodgepodge of mismatched parts with questionable staking. And then there was the gas tube fiasco a year ago.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 5:34:48 AM EST
I think the comparison isn't apples to apples, but there are no oranges in the equation either.
Both have good products, shop smart and look for the deals they both have and buy with confidence from either.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 6:02:39 AM EST
I'll take BCM's combined stringent quality control and customer service over any other manufacturer out there...
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 6:26:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By 9divdoc:
I'll take BCM's combined stringent quality control and customer service over any other manufacturer out there...


Me too. If you put 2 rifles on the table for sale- which one will bring the highest price?
I did this recently, my BCM rifles sold fastest and at a higher price.

I'm not saying PSA is not a great company, they just do not have the reputation (yet) that BCM has).
I know what to expect with BCM every time. I have bought PSA LPKs and other parts, found varying quality- but mostly acceptable.
For even money, I know what I'll buy. I know what brought the best prices when I sold, (as bad as I hated selling).

But, again, PSA is an asset- it's your money, your choice.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 6:29:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By Synyster06Gates:
Originally Posted By thornejc:

Man this is the type of shit i hate... the whole well i shot both of them and they seemed the same to me. Yea... i have shot both of them too and they both work fine but it is about putting out a consistent quality product and backing it. And the whole zero slop thing lies. Unless you are rocking like an LMT MRP you are going to have slop... technically, A LITTLE is supposed to be there to facilitate breaking it down in the field.


Maybe your definition of slop vs mine is different. I consider "slop" a noticeable amount of movement between the receivers when they are together. My PSA rifles have a noticeable amount of "friction" if you will and the lugs fit tight in the lower. I've played with rifles that you could hear shifting around when you moved. Get off your high horse, I was mentioning my experience with each company. To me, PSA has been VERY consistent and put out quality product. No need to get butthurt that someone has a different opinion than you.


I understand... i live a little less than 10min away from PSA (right in between their farrow rd and i-26 locations) and have seen plenty of them. About every damn rifle around here is a PSA nowadays. We just had a different definition of slop.... No big deal. But PSA hit a point where they were putting out some bad shit. They seem to have that corrected and they handled this whole "panic" like a champion so yea i'm not knocking PSA. But i understand the difference between PSA and BCM and its mainly their reputation if that matters to you. My friend has one of the 1st rifles 20 rifles... he has used it for duty use and is using it as his duty weapon on the swat team here until he gets a gov issued weapon... it has a lot of rounds through it and handles well. My bad for sounding like i am up on some "high horse" but i really was just saying that in all likelihood you could shoot your friends olympic arms and then shoot a noveske and if all 30 rounds make it out the barrel, not see much difference between the two but that doesn't mean you would suggest they were the same.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 8:55:08 AM EST
You have to love how a man can ask about the quality of two different lowers and he gets a "PSA vs BCM" shit storm instead

Both are good lowers, it really just comes down to which roll mark you want.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 9:25:35 AM EST
Parts for parts I feel like one is no better than the other. Which is what the OP was asking, not assembly, not CS, just parts.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 10:55:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By iNeXile556:
No.
PSA is a dealer, they don't make anything.
BCM is a manufacturer.
Quality wise they are miles apart. BCM trumps PSA.

As far as basic stripped lowers go they are both more or less equal.


This has me wondering......what exactly does BCM manufacture? I'm not so sure they build any of the parts they "assemble".

This is not meant as a dig on BCM, they are my go to company for parts, etc. Comparisons are a fair question however.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 11:02:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/30/2013 11:03:26 AM EST by ricochet7]
This is the OP's post:

Originally Posted By Ghostbear68:
I know both BCM and PSA lowers are solid (and hear more about BCM). In comparison how does PSA stand up to BCM? Are they pretty much on par for quality?


So, he says "I know both BCM and PSA lowers are solid (and hear more about BCM)".
It sounds like he knows about lowers, although he hears more about BCM.

He then says " In comparison how does PSA stand up to BCM?"
This leads to comparison- not JUST about fucking lowers. If someone asks me about how 2 products stack up against one another, shipping, customer service, parts, assembly ALL matter and are valid to discuss. Reputation is also valid.

And then finishes with "Are they pretty much on par for quality?" So, again, he says he knows about the lowers, so that pretty much leaves everything open to discussion and it's not just lowers. So, how do people get off saying the OPs question is "JUST ABOUT LOWERS"?

PSA may well make many happy, they assemble good parts that they buy to their "spec", and BCM assembles parts to their "spec". As Pat Rogers says, all parts are not equals. A reputation can take a while to build- I wish PSA well. That said, I will still choose BCM over PSA for my families AR rifles, you are free to choose whichever.

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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 11:06:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By Medicfrost:
With BCM, you will consistently get top notch parts. PSA seems to be a mystery at times. Is the buffer tube 6061 vs. 7075? Bolts that may be MPI, or they may not be (I don't believe they ever HPT them.) Carriers with a hodgepodge of mismatched parts with questionable staking. And then there was the gas tube fiasco a year ago.


This has been my experience as well. I've got a couple wrongs parts from PSA, but they resolved my issues quickly. PSA has awsome deals from time to time and that's when I buy things from PSA. You buy PSA stuff for the deals because you're not in a hurry and don't have a problem waiting a week or three to save a few bucks.

You buy from BCM for the customer service and the super quick shipping. Plus their rep. for quality. BCM will always cost you more then PSA under normal market conditions, that will also reflect resale prices if you decide to sell either down the road.

Would I pay the current BCM price for a PSA upper? No, because PSA prices have ranged from $250-600 on a upper and BCM uppers have been around the $500 mark. BCM doesn't have sales.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 11:07:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By The_Hammer:
You have to love how a man can ask about the quality of two different lowers and he gets a "PSA vs BCM" shit storm instead

Both are good lowers, it really just comes down to which roll mark you want.


you're interpretation of the original post varies from mine.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 11:23:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By Medicfrost:
Originally Posted By The_Hammer:
You have to love how a man can ask about the quality of two different lowers and he gets a "PSA vs BCM" shit storm instead

Both are good lowers, it really just comes down to which roll mark you want.


you're interpretation of the original post varies from mine.


That's what I'm saying the OP was asking for a Company comparison not just a damn lower. He knew exactly what he was doing in asking, and while quality is important why not buy something that if had to be resold would be worth as much if not more? Resale is a valid consideration in purchasing big ticket items...........
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 11:29:34 AM EST
lowers are the same IMHO. In fact, just put together a 16" LW middy using the BCM upper and BCG and a PSA lower.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 11:35:31 AM EST
I guess my view is this..

Pre-panic I'd pay the difference for the BCM. But now as everything is hard to get. I'd buy whatever is in stock. Personally I have had a few issues with PSA stuff. Bought a couple LPK to have extra. Both were missing parts, detents one missing a disconnector after a run around with CS problem was fixed.

BCM well.. Not a single issue with ANYTHING from them. Ever.. No missing parts, no CS run around.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 11:40:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By albatrossarmament:
I disagree with the above statement. I think they are about the same quality, same specs, and sometimes PSA has a better barrel (cold-hammer forged by FN).


BFH is too.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 12:03:32 PM EST
Originally Posted By MajorJustice:
Originally Posted By whollyshite:
I expect it to be well above mil-spec in quality and as tough as you would ever need.



Neither are "above Mil-Spec in quality". From what I've seen, BCM desperately tries to match Colt's quality control measures as closely as possible so they can claim that their product IS Mil-Spec.


I have absolutely nothing against Colt. I owned one for years and regretted selling it. With that being said, my understanding is that BCM's QC is much more stringent than Colt. They test their barrels and BCGs more thoroughly than Colt (HP testing and outside verification and certification of metals come to mind) and their tolerances are, supposedly, tighter than Colt's.

I'm not the foremost expert, so someone please provide me with evidence if I'm incorrect.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 12:04:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By Medicfrost:
Originally Posted By The_Hammer:
You have to love how a man can ask about the quality of two different lowers and he gets a "PSA vs BCM" shit storm instead

Both are good lowers, it really just comes down to which roll mark you want.


you're interpretation of the original post varies from mine.


I see what your saying now. Should have spend more time thinking than typing

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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 12:06:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By whollyshite:

I have absolutely nothing against Colt. I owned one for years and regretted selling it. With that being said, my understanding is that BCM's QC is much more stringent than Colt. They test their barrels and BCGs more thoroughly than Colt (HP testing and outside verification and certification of metals come to mind) and their tolerances are, supposedly, tighter than Colt's.

I'm not the foremost expert, so someone please provide me with evidence if I'm incorrect.


BCM seeks to emulate Colt. HP and MPI are standard on Colts, and everything is certified.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 12:15:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/30/2013 12:33:53 PM EST by whollyshite]
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Originally Posted By whollyshite:

I have absolutely nothing against Colt. I owned one for years and regretted selling it. With that being said, my understanding is that BCM's QC is much more stringent than Colt. They test their barrels and BCGs more thoroughly than Colt (HP testing and outside verification and certification of metals come to mind) and their tolerances are, supposedly, tighter than Colt's.

I'm not the foremost expert, so someone please provide me with evidence if I'm incorrect.


BCM seeks to emulate Colt. HP and MPI are standard on Colts, and everything is certified.


Is this stated by Colt somewhere? I haven't seen Colt advertise it and, if I'm nto mistaken, their barrels are only marked MP tested. Maybe my googling abilities are lacking...

ETA: Not that Colt is a bad company to follow. They have been making them forever. I'm sure they've figured things out that others are sytill trying to figure out.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 12:54:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By MajorJustice:
Originally Posted By whollyshite:
I expect it to be well above mil-spec in quality and as tough as you would ever need.



Neither are "above Mil-Spec in quality". From what I've seen, BCM desperately tries to match Colt's quality control measures as closely as possible so they can claim that their product IS Mil-Spec.


I promise you that BCM has better QC than Colt.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 2:42:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By MajorJustice:
Originally Posted By whollyshite:
I expect it to be well above mil-spec in quality and as tough as you would ever need.



Neither are "above Mil-Spec in quality". From what I've seen, BCM desperately tries to match Colt's quality control measures as closely as possible so they can claim that their product IS Mil-Spec.


I would like for you to point out any thing that you've seen BCM do "desperately" to try to keep up with colt.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 3:00:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By DLIP:
Originally Posted By MajorJustice:
Originally Posted By whollyshite:
I expect it to be well above mil-spec in quality and as tough as you would ever need.



Neither are "above Mil-Spec in quality". From what I've seen, BCM desperately tries to match Colt's quality control measures as closely as possible so they can claim that their product IS Mil-Spec.


I would like for you to point out any thing that you've seen BCM do "desperately" to try to keep up with colt.


I would never be so bold as to speak for Paul Buffoni, but I'd be willing to bet you a big chocolate chip cookie that he would be very pleased if his products were considered to be comparable to Colt.

Whose specs do you think BCM is striving to emulate after all?
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 3:19:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By wolverine05:
Originally Posted By DLIP:
Originally Posted By MajorJustice:
Originally Posted By whollyshite:
I expect it to be well above mil-spec in quality and as tough as you would ever need.



Neither are "above Mil-Spec in quality". From what I've seen, BCM desperately tries to match Colt's quality control measures as closely as possible so they can claim that their product IS Mil-Spec.


I would like for you to point out any thing that you've seen BCM do "desperately" to try to keep up with colt.


I would never be so bold as to speak for Paul Buffoni, but I'd be willing to bet you a big chocolate chip cookie that he would be very pleased if his products were considered to be comparable to Colt.

Whose specs do you think BCM is striving to emulate after all?


After taking a step back, I think I am helping this thread get way off topic. I also will not speak for Paul Buffoni, but I have a hard time believing that he went into business with a goal to just be as good as Colt. I'm just one guy, but I don't think that colt is the end all, be all rifle that every other rifle is built after. Colt has the contract, and that says a lot for them. But they also have the ability to produce a massive quantity of rifles that meet the required specs of the military. Once again this is just one persons opinion, I just do not feel that BCM is trying to be colt. The upper I am using right now is a BCM, and that will be what I continue to use for a long time. I would also like to have a colt, just so I can have one in the safe.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 3:42:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By DLIP:
Originally Posted By wolverine05:
Originally Posted By DLIP:
Originally Posted By MajorJustice:
Originally Posted By whollyshite:
I expect it to be well above mil-spec in quality and as tough as you would ever need.



Neither are "above Mil-Spec in quality". From what I've seen, BCM desperately tries to match Colt's quality control measures as closely as possible so they can claim that their product IS Mil-Spec.


I would like for you to point out any thing that you've seen BCM do "desperately" to try to keep up with colt.


I would never be so bold as to speak for Paul Buffoni, but I'd be willing to bet you a big chocolate chip cookie that he would be very pleased if his products were considered to be comparable to Colt.

Whose specs do you think BCM is striving to emulate after all?


After taking a step back, I think I am helping this thread get way off topic. I also will not speak for Paul Buffoni, but I have a hard time believing that he went into business with a goal to just be as good as Colt. I'm just one guy, but I don't think that colt is the end all, be all rifle that every other rifle is built after. Colt has the contract, and that says a lot for them. But they also have the ability to produce a massive quantity of rifles that meet the required specs of the military. Once again this is just one persons opinion, I just do not feel that BCM is trying to be colt. The upper I am using right now is a BCM, and that will be what I continue to use for a long time. I would also like to have a colt, just so I can have one in the safe.


If you go to BCM's website, you can see Paul Buffoni, on tape, explaining in his own words why he started BCM. In a nutshell, there were overseas operators who were in the commercial market and were finding a severe lack of choices for mil-spec products. He saw too many commerical mfg's cutting corners. Paul saw an opportunity and went for it. If you are going to build mil-spec AR's, you are going to try to meet the standards outlined in the TDP (which is owned and utilized by Colt).

Pat Rogers, on this very site, years ago stated that Paul Biffoni is a Marine who makes uppers which mimic in every respect Colt.

I don't know how much more clear that can be.

If I were starting an AR company back in 2005, I think tyring to produce product on a level with Colt would be a good thing to aspire to.

Paul is in business to produce a quality product and make money. BCM has EARNED a solid reputation, and if they have taken a bite out of Colt's market share, then I don't think Paul is losing any sleep over it. Frankly, with the shortages of AR's and AR parts we are seeing right now, I don't think anybody is losing any market share, and I'm just damned glad that a company like BCM is striving so hard to make solid quality products that are up to Colt's standard.

I just had a brand new BCM upper reciever group show up on my doorstep this afternoon. It is absolutely georgeous, and will go nicely with the substantial pile of other BCM products that I have procured over the years. But, I have no illusions as to the genesis of the specs to which it is built.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 4:03:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By whollyshite:
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Originally Posted By whollyshite:

I have absolutely nothing against Colt. I owned one for years and regretted selling it. With that being said, my understanding is that BCM's QC is much more stringent than Colt. They test their barrels and BCGs more thoroughly than Colt (HP testing and outside verification and certification of metals come to mind) and their tolerances are, supposedly, tighter than Colt's.

I'm not the foremost expert, so someone please provide me with evidence if I'm incorrect.


BCM seeks to emulate Colt. HP and MPI are standard on Colts, and everything is certified.


Is this stated by Colt somewhere? I haven't seen Colt advertise it and, if I'm nto mistaken, their barrels are only marked MP tested. Maybe my googling abilities are lacking...

ETA: Not that Colt is a bad company to follow. They have been making them forever. I'm sure they've figured things out that others are sytill trying to figure out.


They don't exactly talk about themselves a lot but the information is out there.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 4:41:24 PM EST
BCM emulates Colt?

Colt offer middys now? CHF bbls? 14.5 factory options? Hmm, I must be out of the loop, I thought they were bound by the milspec.

Id prefer BCM or PSA over Colt for reasons stated above. I feel those options exceed the milspec. I have a 2011 vintage PSA (not sure if that makes a diff) and in ~6k so far it has kept up just fine with my buddys BCM. Both a great rifles built to great specs.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 5:02:52 PM EST
Originally Posted By Spent_Casing:
BCM emulates Colt?

Colt offer middys now? CHF bbls? 14.5 factory options? Hmm, I must be out of the loop, I thought they were bound by the milspec.

Id prefer BCM or PSA over Colt for reasons stated above. I feel those options exceed the milspec. I have a 2011 vintage PSA (not sure if that makes a diff) and in ~6k so far it has kept up just fine with my buddys BCM. Both a great rifles built to great specs.


Don't be a tool.

Clearly BCM offers more configurations (midlength gas systems, infinite rail options, etc,), but if you compare the standard M4 configured offering from both companies, I think it is rather clear who is following who.

I like midlength's too, but it's absolutely ridiculous to use that feature as some sort of distinguishing factor when it comes to bottom line quality and adherence to specs.

Shit, by that way of thinking, some mfg will add a UTG quad rail with a built-in beer bottle opener and suddenly it will exceed mil-spec.

As I previously mentioned, I absolutely love BCM. They have more of my money than any other company. If you want to give them props, then do so, but not at the expense of Colt who they admitteldly pattern their stuff after. BCM is awesome. They innovate in many ways. The Gunfighter charging handle, their new comp, their grips and buttstocks, etc.. Most importantly, they were one of the first (if not the first) company to offer mil-spec quality gear at very reasonable prices.

But when you put forth the notion that it is proposterous that they pattern the vast majority of their AR specs based upon Colt, you just sound like a douche.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 7:19:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/30/2013 7:19:28 PM EST by basicAR]

Originally Posted By wolverine05:

Don't be a tool.

Clearly BCM offers more configurations (midlength gas systems, infinite rail options, etc,), but if you compare the standard M4 configured offering from both companies, I think it is rather clear who is following who.

I like midlength's too, but it's absolutely ridiculous to use that feature as some sort of distinguishing factor when it comes to bottom line quality and adherence to specs.

Shit, by that way of thinking, some mfg will add a UTG quad rail with a built-in beer bottle opener and suddenly it will exceed mil-spec.

As I previously mentioned, I absolutely love BCM. They have more of my money than any other company. If you want to give them props, then do so, but not at the expense of Colt who they admitteldly pattern their stuff after. BCM is awesome. They innovate in many ways. The Gunfighter charging handle, their new comp, their grips and buttstocks, etc.. Most importantly, they were one of the first (if not the first) company to offer mil-spec quality gear at very reasonable prices.

But when you put forth the notion that it is proposterous that they pattern the vast majority of their AR specs based upon Colt, you just sound like a douche.


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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 9:30:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By iNeXile556:
No.
PSA is a dealer, they don't make anything.
BCM is a manufacturer.
Quality wise they are miles apart. BCM trumps PSA.

As far as basic stripped lowers go they are both more or less equal.


Incorrect.
BCM subs manufactured parts with thier logo just like PSA does.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 10:40:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/30/2013 10:43:17 PM EST by weespeed]
No. They are a dealer of parts and an assembler.
They buy their parts right down to their bcgs.
Granted they buy parts "to their specs", but they buy and laser engrave BCM all over it.
Ask who makes their parts, they will only say it's a manufactured to "their specs".

For all you know BCM and PSA parts may come from the same factory. Just one has PSA or BCM on the side.

Where in the world did you get this from?

Originally Posted By iNeXile556:
No.
PSA is a dealer, they don't make anything.
BCM is a manufacturer.
Quality wise they are miles apart. BCM trumps PSA.

As far as basic stripped lowers go they are both more or less equal.


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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 10:55:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By wolverine05:
Originally Posted By Spent_Casing:
BCM emulates Colt?

Colt offer middys now? CHF bbls? 14.5 factory options? Hmm, I must be out of the loop, I thought they were bound by the milspec.

Id prefer BCM or PSA over Colt for reasons stated above. I feel those options exceed the milspec. I have a 2011 vintage PSA (not sure if that makes a diff) and in ~6k so far it has kept up just fine with my buddys BCM. Both a great rifles built to great specs.


Don't be a tool.

Clearly BCM offers more configurations (midlength gas systems, infinite rail options, etc,), but if you compare the standard M4 configured offering from both companies, I think it is rather clear who is following who.

I like midlength's too, but it's absolutely ridiculous to use that feature as some sort of distinguishing factor when it comes to bottom line quality and adherence to specs.

Shit, by that way of thinking, some mfg will add a UTG quad rail with a built-in beer bottle opener and suddenly it will exceed mil-spec.

As I previously mentioned, I absolutely love BCM. They have more of my money than any other company. If you want to give them props, then do so, but not at the expense of Colt who they admitteldly pattern their stuff after. BCM is awesome. They innovate in many ways. The Gunfighter charging handle, their new comp, their grips and buttstocks, etc.. Most importantly, they were one of the first (if not the first) company to offer mil-spec quality gear at very reasonable prices.

But when you put forth the notion that it is proposterous that they pattern the vast majority of their AR specs based upon Colt, you just sound like a douche.


BCM took the Colt "standard" and improved on it. To me, Colt puts out the minimum as to what should be expected out of the AR platform.

There's Colt, and there's beyond Colt.

I personally opt for beyond Colt any and every time.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2013 11:18:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By AR-Ryan21:

BCM took the Colt "standard" and improved on it. To me, Colt puts out the minimum as to what should be expected out of the AR platform.

There's Colt, and there's beyond Colt.

I personally opt for beyond Colt any and every time.


I agree with you to an extent.
Colt makes hundreds of thousands of M4 every year. Used around the world daily in life and death situations. The qc where it matters is working. Pull the trigger it fires every time.
Their qc when it comes to finish is lacking. My 6940 is no where as nice looking or "finished" looking as my MR556.

But it goes bang every time I pull the trigger.
Colt is the standard, they own the TDP that everyone reverse engineers to build their "clones". The standard does not mean it's the ceiling or best.
Are some other manufactures "standards" better than Colts? Hard to say and is subjective.
Does it look better, fit better? Sure can be.

But to me none of those companies can claim the reliability and number of kills that Colt has under it's name.
No company can make that claim.

Maybe in the future their will be a new "standard". But Colt has been around doing this for a long time.
In 5-10 years there may not be a Noveske or BCM and maybe their will be an XYZ carbine.

But one thing is for sure. There will be Colt.
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Link Posted: 5/1/2013 4:19:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By MajorJustice:
Originally Posted By whollyshite:
I expect it to be well above mil-spec in quality and as tough as you would ever need.



Neither are "above Mil-Spec in quality". From what I've seen, BCM desperately tries to match Colt's quality control measures as closely as possible so they can claim that their product IS Mil-Spec.


we better hope not given Colt's lousy qc!

on lowers, they are on par with no differences

barrels, I'd go psa due to them being FN

sevice you go BCM, they are outstanding

BCM makes quality stuff but PSA is gtg
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