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mike89
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Posted: 3/7/2013 6:07:50 AM EST
I have a feeling this is one of those "can of worms" type topics, but I need to know. Which is "better" and why. Assume the carrier is 8620.

Thanks!
Medicfrost
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Posted: 3/7/2013 6:25:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/7/2013 6:51:45 AM EST by Medicfrost]
Carpenter. There is no dispute on this. Its stronger, but more expensive, which is why there are 8620 bolts also.
IL2windhawk
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Posted: 3/7/2013 6:29:28 AM EST
How about 9130 steel? That's what the JP enhanced bolt is made from.
jmreagan
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Posted: 3/7/2013 7:07:30 AM EST
I'm interested to know just how many have broken 8620 bolts from hard use compared to 158...
blwngazkit
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Posted: 3/7/2013 7:16:02 AM EST
As I understand it, Carpenter 158 is a case(surface) hardened steel where 8620 is through hardened.

This would allow C-158 to be very hard on the outside to prevent wear and crack formation while the inside is softer and more flexible to prevent crack propagation and absorb shock loads.

8620 being through hardened can either be softer and better at shock, or harder and better at wear but not both.



The above is just a guess based on what I know about metal hardening from knifeworking...
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DSArms_FAL
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Posted: 3/7/2013 9:40:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/7/2013 9:41:17 AM EST by DSArms_FAL]
For the bolt 158 or 9310 is what you want 9310 is about 8% stronger if that matters to you. 9310 would be better if you can find one that said 158 is the milspec so that will work too. I like above milspec whenever possible.

For the carrier 8620 or a good SS, you could do carriers in 9310 but it would be $$$$$$$$
deuc224
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Posted: 3/7/2013 3:48:19 PM EST
I thought 8620 was mil-spec?
GeneralPurpose
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Posted: 3/7/2013 3:50:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By deuc224:
I thought 8620 was mil-spec?


For the carrier it is, not for the bolt.

I can't understand why anyone ever buys things below-milspec.
Go to this page to simultaneously email ALL of your elected officials against gun control: http://www.ruger.com/micros/advocacy/takeAction.html
GHPorter
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Posted: 3/7/2013 4:38:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By jmreagan:
I'm interested to know just how many have broken 8620 bolts from hard use compared to 158...


A bolt is one part I do not want to go cheap with. I don't know of any 8620 bolts that have broken, but if I have a say in it, there won't be one in any rifle of mine.
"--you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."
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Medicfrost
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Posted: 3/7/2013 4:47:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/7/2013 4:49:07 PM EST by Medicfrost]
Originally Posted By deuc224:
I thought 8620 was mil-spec?


It isn't. Carpenter 158 is mil-spec.

Originally Posted By jmreagan:
I'm interested to know just how many have broken 8620 bolts from hard use compared to 158...


7, 566
Sheddy
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Posted: 3/7/2013 4:48:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By GHPorter:
Originally Posted By jmreagan:
I'm interested to know just how many have broken 8620 bolts from hard use compared to 158...


A bolt is one part I do not want to go cheap with. I don't know of any 8620 bolts that have broken, but if I have a say in it, there won't be one in any rifle of mine.


Are you saying going with Carpenter 158 is a way of cheaping out?
apierce918
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Posted: 3/7/2013 5:18:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sheddy:
Originally Posted By GHPorter:
Originally Posted By jmreagan:
I'm interested to know just how many have broken 8620 bolts from hard use compared to 158...


A bolt is one part I do not want to go cheap with. I don't know of any 8620 bolts that have broken, but if I have a say in it, there won't be one in any rifle of mine.


Are you saying going with Carpenter 158 is a way of cheaping out?

how'd you get that? lol
Sheddy
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Posted: 3/7/2013 6:35:32 PM EST
Originally Posted By apierce918:

Originally Posted By Sheddy:
Originally Posted By GHPorter:
Originally Posted By jmreagan:
I'm interested to know just how many have broken 8620 bolts from hard use compared to 158...


A bolt is one part I do not want to go cheap with. I don't know of any 8620 bolts that have broken, but if I have a say in it, there won't be one in any rifle of mine.


Are you saying going with Carpenter 158 is a way of cheaping out?

how'd you get that? lol


He was saying 8620 is milspec and that he doesn't know of any that have broken, I don't know, fuck I'm drinkin some more. I bought a Bravo Company bolt.
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Posted: 3/8/2013 1:47:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By Sheddy:
Originally Posted By apierce918:

Originally Posted By Sheddy:
Originally Posted By GHPorter:
Originally Posted By jmreagan:
I'm interested to know just how many have broken 8620 bolts from hard use compared to 158...


A bolt is one part I do not want to go cheap with. I don't know of any 8620 bolts that have broken, but if I have a say in it, there won't be one in any rifle of mine.


Are you saying going with Carpenter 158 is a way of cheaping out?

how'd you get that? lol


He was saying 8620 is milspec and that he doesn't know of any that have broken, I don't know, fuck I'm drinkin some more. I bought a Bravo Company bolt.

NO. I'm saying that the spec for bolts is Carpenter 158, that's the kind of bolts I will stick with, and I'm not going to buy a bolt made of 8620 (which is the spec for CARRIERS only).

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45FMJoe
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Posted: 3/8/2013 3:21:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By GHPorter:

NO. I'm saying that the spec for bolts is Carpenter 158, that's the kind of bolts I will stick with, and I'm not going to buy a bolt made of 8620 (which is the spec for CARRIERS only).



Exactly. Why anyone would buy lesws than mil-spec is a mystery to me.
RUTGERS95
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Posted: 3/8/2013 3:43:15 AM EST
this thread got me thinking, does anyone know what is used in the bolts on a lars-ops 4 side chargers?
mc556
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Posted: 3/8/2013 4:34:56 AM EST
I will add to this by saying you could use unobtainium for the bolt but it wouldn't be worth shit if the heat treat is wrong.
So in certain cases a inferior metal could outperform a better one if the heat treat is to hard,soft or uneven.
This is a case where the suppliers should be just as important as the material
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wolverine05
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Posted: 3/8/2013 4:43:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By mc556:
I will add to this by saying you could use unobtainium for the bolt but it wouldn't be worth shit if the heat treat is wrong.
So in certain cases a inferior metal could outperform a better one if the heat treat is to hard,soft or uneven.
This is a case where the suppliers should be just as important as the material



Right on brother!
fishorwife
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Posted: 3/8/2013 5:44:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By blwngazkit:
As I understand it, Carpenter 158 is a case(surface) hardened steel where 8620 is through hardened.

This would allow C-158 to be very hard on the outside to prevent wear and crack formation while the inside is softer and more flexible to prevent crack propagation and absorb shock loads.

8620 being through hardened can either be softer and better at shock, or harder and better at wear but not both.



The above is just a guess based on what I know about metal hardening from knifeworking...


8620 can be case hardened by carburizing.
tstanfield12
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Posted: 3/8/2013 7:13:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By wolverine05:
Originally Posted By mc556:
I will add to this by saying you could use unobtainium for the bolt but it wouldn't be worth shit if the heat treat is wrong.
So in certain cases a inferior metal could outperform a better one if the heat treat is to hard,soft or uneven.
This is a case where the suppliers should be just as important as the material



Right on brother!


Which is why I buy BCM bolts whenever I can...
jmreagan
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Posted: 3/8/2013 8:12:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By 45FMJoe:

Originally Posted By GHPorter:

NO. I'm saying that the spec for bolts is Carpenter 158, that's the kind of bolts I will stick with, and I'm not going to buy a bolt made of 8620 (which is the spec for CARRIERS only).



Exactly. Why anyone would buy lesws than mil-spec is a mystery to me.


I had a build going right before Zero got elected and bolts were mostly unobtainable. So I bought a PSA bolt; stupidly thinking everything PSA sold was mil-spec and was lucky enough to find any bolt then. I didn't even check to see if it was 158, hard lesson . So I ended up with an 8620 bolt from PSA and that's how I have a rifle with a less than mil-spec bolt. It pisses me off because every damned part of the rifle is mil-spec or better. When 158's become plentiful and prices get realistic I'll pull the 8620 and replace it. Until then, I'll run it hard and see how durable 8620 is...
SciFiNut
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Posted: 3/8/2013 8:18:18 AM EST
Take a gander at the Troubleshooting forum... Several threads there where malfunctions (including sheared lugs) have been tracked back to 8260 bolts.
Pay the extra $ for a milspec bolt.
mc556
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Posted: 3/8/2013 3:13:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/8/2013 3:15:00 PM EST by mc556]
Originally Posted By jmreagan:
Originally Posted By 45FMJoe:

Originally Posted By GHPorter:

NO. I'm saying that the spec for bolts is Carpenter 158, that's the kind of bolts I will stick with, and I'm not going to buy a bolt made of 8620 (which is the spec for CARRIERS only).



Exactly. Why anyone would buy lesws than mil-spec is a mystery to me.


I had a build going right before Zero got elected and bolts were mostly unobtainable. So I bought a PSA bolt; stupidly thinking everything PSA sold was mil-spec and was lucky enough to find any bolt then. I didn't even check to see if it was 158, hard lesson . So I ended up with an 8620 bolt from PSA and that's how I have a rifle with a less than mil-spec bolt. It pisses me off because every damned part of the rifle is mil-spec or better. When 158's become plentiful and prices get realistic I'll pull the 8620 and replace it. Until then, I'll run it hard and see how durable 8620 is...




When I look on there site all there bolts in there rifles and the BCG that are sold separate say they are Carpenter 158
Look here


I take it back they do have one on the site that is listed as 8620 BCG
It doesn't look like what they use but had it for sale along with other brands
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jaqufrost
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Posted: 3/8/2013 3:14:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By mc556:
SNIP




When I look on there site all there bolts in there rifles and the BCG that are sold separate say they are Carpenter 158
Look here

They did a run a few months back of 8620 bolts.
mc556
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Posted: 3/8/2013 3:17:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:

Originally Posted By mc556:
SNIP




When I look on there site all there bolts in there rifles and the BCG that are sold separate say they are Carpenter 158
Look here

They did a run a few months back of 8620 bolts.



Damn your quick I was editing the post but you caught it before I got it fixed
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jaqufrost
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Posted: 3/8/2013 3:20:54 PM EST
It popped up on active topics and I had already read the rest of the thread, lol.
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