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Posted: 11/2/2012 7:37:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2012 8:16:45 PM EST by suprshootr]
Me and a couple buddies decided to start a series torture testing and reviewing various firearms and accessories. The channel is called tactical arms review.

We started with the torture testing series. The first videos were fly by night as we shot them a couple years ago just for fun but we are planning to get into more detail with future videos.

AR15 1,000 round torture test.

Details are posted under the video in the description.

Constructive criticism and theories are welcomed.

Edit to add link to thread for MSAR STG 556-E4 1,000 round torture test: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_43/382630_.html&page=1








Here's some pics:




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Link Posted: 11/2/2012 7:44:43 PM EST
Meh 1000 rounds is only 2 normal range days.

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Link Posted: 11/2/2012 8:13:56 PM EST
I like it.. but I think people might be more interested in seeing torture testing in terms of adverse conditions.. packing the rifle with snow, dirt, mud, dropping it from high places etc. In my mind I think that's more of a torture test for the rifle in a more applicable scenario for real world. I can't imagine a situation where I'd rattle off 1k rounds but I can imagine a situation where I might have to throw the rifle from a moving car (not really but an example) or something like that.

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Link Posted: 11/2/2012 8:26:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2012 8:30:42 PM EST by suprshootr]
Originally Posted By JimboJones1:
I like it.. but I think people might be more interested in seeing torture testing in terms of adverse conditions.. packing the rifle with snow, dirt, mud, dropping it from high places etc. In my mind I think that's more of a torture test for the rifle in a more applicable scenario for real world. I can't imagine a situation where I'd rattle off 1k rounds but I can imagine a situation where I might have to throw the rifle from a moving car (not really but an example) or something like that.


I agree. This isn't a torture test that reflects a realistic scenario, but it does tell us something about these weapons and the accessories.

When we shot it, we didn't have a channel in mind. It was just meant to be fun and really torture the weapons to see if they could get through 1k rounds. I thought they would make it.

Future videos will reflect more realistic scenarios.

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Link Posted: 11/2/2012 8:27:53 PM EST
Watch it will be for sale on EE,

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Link Posted: 11/2/2012 9:35:24 PM EST

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Link Posted: 11/2/2012 10:00:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By LIL-COMMANDO:
Watch it will be for sale on EE,


"Recently broken-in"

Now 25% More Tactical!
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Link Posted: 11/2/2012 10:15:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By cletussd:
I'll raise

Round cooking off at 2:14?
PinPointOne: Cereal killer??? WTF did Cap'n Crunch or Count Chocula ever do to you ?

Sgtar15: They made me Coo-coo for coco puffs. <img src=/images/smilies/icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>
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Link Posted: 11/2/2012 10:29:46 PM EST
How much longer would the rifle go if it had been free floated with quad rails?
Thinking about air circulation of course.

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Link Posted: 11/3/2012 3:04:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By TheJammer:
Originally Posted By LIL-COMMANDO:
Watch it will be for sale on EE,


"Recently broken-in"


Test fired and returned to box. Like new, minor handling marks

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Link Posted: 11/3/2012 3:22:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/3/2012 3:27:13 AM EST by Hawkdriver]
The sustained rate of fire for the M4 is about 15 rounds per minute...

The sustained rate of fire on some BELT FED MACHINEGUNS is only 100-200 rounds per minute…

The basic load for soldiers is SEVEN, 30 round magazines…



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Link Posted: 11/3/2012 4:14:57 AM EST
so you wasted 1k to prove a gun will get hot if you abuse it?

okay
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Link Posted: 11/3/2012 5:05:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
so you wasted 1k to prove a gun will get hot if you abuse it?

okay



Didnt see any abuse they were just shooting the rifle. . One thing they did prove is the rifle failed after firing 1k rounds through it really fast.

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Link Posted: 11/3/2012 5:08:48 AM EST
WTF happened to the finish on the barrel between the handguards? It looks like it was painted and the heat cracked the paint and primer.

OP, while I agree with others that this really isn't a torture test it does show the rifle can/will shoot 1000K rounds in a relatively short period of time without fail so we can all appreciate that. I didn't get the name/brand of ammo though. Was it steel cased or brass?

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Link Posted: 11/3/2012 5:21:12 AM EST
Must be nice to have money to throw away like that.

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Link Posted: 11/3/2012 5:23:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1MRBEAN:

Didnt see any abuse they were just shooting the rifle. . One thing they did prove is the rifle failed after firing 1k rounds through it really fast.

Really, the max/extended ROF are already known, go past them and the gun will fail (ie abuse). Beside proving a already known fact, how was burning up a barrel a "test."



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Link Posted: 11/3/2012 5:26:59 AM EST
So, that's how you fit a rifle length gas tube in a carbine

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Link Posted: 11/3/2012 5:39:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By Espos1111:
So, that's how you fit a rifle length gas tube in a carbine


I was wondering what was going on with the gas tube. I'm new to SBR's. I figured it should look the same as any AR gas tube, just shorter, not wound around the barrel...

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Link Posted: 11/3/2012 6:38:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By misc:
How much longer would the rifle go if it had been free floated with quad rails?
Thinking about air circulation of course.


I don't know but I think it would have made it further. The double heat shield hand guards do hold in too much heat.

The second video(s) is where the destruction actually happens of these firearms.

Description from video:
We 1,000 round torture test an AR15 SBR (short barreled rifle). Upper is an 11.5 inch manufactured by BCM with a Colt manufactured BCG. The lower is manufactured by Colt. I was lucky it did not have a major kaboom so I DO NOT recommend anyone try this. By the 24th mag the gas tube melted to the barrel. I had to manually extract rounds and charge the rifle. The hand guards were almost completely destroyed. I later found out the barrel was basically shot out. It would shoot lighter loads okay but heavier loads would keyhole. The whole rifle was extremely hot. The Aimpoint and Streamlight were very hot but no problems with either. I used various 30 round mags (USGI, PMAGS) and ammo (Federal M193, Prvi Partizan M193, Wolf 223 steel cased 55gr, Black Hills 223 remanufactured 75gr) for the test. I believe the rifle would have lasted longer if it had an aluminum rail system instead of the double heat shield hand guards. The hand guards just hold in too much heat.


We 1,000 round torture test to my MSAR STG 556-E4. I was lucky it did not have a major kaboom so I DO NOT recommend anyone try this. By the 32nd mag it started to cook off. The mag didn't want to come out at first, but I was eventually able to get it out. The receiver was extremely hot. The MBUS sights melted to the rail. The ACOG was very hot but no problems with it. The take down button wouldn't move so I was unable to disassemble the bullpup. I believe it melted or lost its shape from the heat. All lube cooked off so the guide rods were chewed up with much of the outer finish (chrome?) scraped off. I was finally able to get the charging handle to move after coating the rails with CLP, but It felt rough. I used various 30 round mags (MSAR E4 mags, USGI, PMAGS) and ammo (Federal M193, Prvi Partizan M193, Wolf 223 steel cased 55gr, Black Hills 223 remanufactured 75gr) for the test.

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Link Posted: 11/3/2012 6:46:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By jmreagan:
WTF happened to the finish on the barrel between the handguards? It looks like it was painted and the heat cracked the paint and primer.

OP, while I agree with others that this really isn't a torture test it does show the rifle can/will shoot 1000K rounds in a relatively short period of time without fail so we can all appreciate that. I didn't get the name/brand of ammo though. Was it steel cased or brass?


That was caused from the heat. It didn't make it through 1k. The gas tube warped less than 700 rounds.

I used various 30 round mags (USGI, PMAGS) and ammo (Federal M193, Prvi Partizan M193, Wolf 223 steel cased 55gr, Black Hills 223 remanufactured 75gr) for the test.

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Link Posted: 11/3/2012 6:54:21 AM EST
While these torture test don't necessarily reflect a more common real world scenario like getting sand in the receiver; it's definitely a torture test.

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Link Posted: 11/3/2012 7:13:48 AM EST
Its nice to see equipment getting serious use. 90% of the parts produced end up on rifles that see very light use. Ar15's are so robust even my lowest end stuff looks like it only gets handled by the history channel firearms expert who wears white cotton gloves.

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Link Posted: 11/3/2012 7:21:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By zzzspacezzz:
Must be nice to have money to throw away like that.


You say throw always i say it would have be fun to do it myself.

Thanks for the test op.

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Link Posted: 11/3/2012 7:22:59 AM EST
Was that their hammer forged barrel ?

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Link Posted: 11/3/2012 7:26:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By Alexville:
Was that their hammer forged barrel ?


No. I wish it was though. I'm curious to know how much of a difference it would make.

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Link Posted: 11/3/2012 7:47:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/3/2012 7:48:06 AM EST by jukeboxx13]
I wonder if 1k rounds of semi auto=500 rounds on full auto?

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Link Posted: 11/4/2012 5:44:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By jukeboxx13:
Originally Posted By zzzspacezzz:
Must be nice to have money to throw away like that.


You say throw always i say it would have be fun to do it myself.

Thanks for the test op.


Thanks! Glade you enjoyed it!

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Link Posted: 11/4/2012 5:49:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By jukeboxx13:
I wonder if 1k rounds of semi auto=500 rounds on full auto?


Something like that would be difficult to equate. Full auto can get shots down range so much faster.

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Link Posted: 11/6/2012 7:24:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By suprshootr:
Originally Posted By jukeboxx13:
I wonder if 1k rounds of semi auto=500 rounds on full auto?


Something like that would be difficult to equate. Full auto can get shots down range so much faster.


Do you think the same problems would have happen with 200-500 rounds on full auto?

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Link Posted: 11/8/2012 4:33:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By jukeboxx13:
Originally Posted By suprshootr:
Originally Posted By jukeboxx13:
I wonder if 1k rounds of semi auto=500 rounds on full auto?


Something like that would be difficult to equate. Full auto can get shots down range so much faster.


Do you think the same problems would have happen with 200-500 rounds on full auto?


If it has a rail system to help cooling and heat sink I'm going to say no. I think it would make it to 500 rounds with no long term damage. If it has double heat shield hand guards I'm still going to say it will most likely be fine.

In Colt's full auto video the hand guards caught on fire at around 500 rounds but the rifle lasted much longer.

With semi auto, the rifle stays hot longer than the same rifle shooting the same amount of ammo in full auto because it's shooting so much faster. It takes more time shooting with semi to get the rounds down range which sustains the heat longer.

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Link Posted: 11/8/2012 6:14:40 AM EST
The flashlight. How did it hold up??

Does it still function???

My first and last useless question of the day before I log off.


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Link Posted: 11/8/2012 7:51:40 AM EST
Did anyone else just go to the end to see "what happened?"

Eh, I would have liked it if you tried to hurt it in other ways first before shooting it. It gets boring watching someone shoot for 10 minutes...

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Link Posted: 11/8/2012 8:02:01 AM EST
I wonder if it would've lasted longer with a melonited gas tube
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Link Posted: 11/8/2012 10:53:46 AM EST
I'd like to see the same test during the summer when it's 100 degrees out and in the sun light

I see that the trigger finger was getting alittle tired too

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Link Posted: 11/8/2012 11:36:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By JimboJones1:
I like it.. but I think people might be more interested in seeing torture testing in terms of adverse conditions.. packing the rifle with snow, dirt, mud, dropping it from high places etc. In my mind I think that's more of a torture test for the rifle in a more applicable scenario for real world. I can't imagine a situation where I'd rattle off 1k rounds but I can imagine a situation where I might have to throw the rifle from a moving car (not really but an example) or something like that.




OP:

Great test. ANYTHING that involves use, repair, breakage, dropping, shooting, prying, bending, throwing, digging, paddling or scooping with an AR is of great interest and is appreciated! Thanks for posting.

For myself, mine get used a lot, under all conditions, so here's a few pix for JimboJones.

{PS: The pup is now over 100 pounds and trained to pull my sled. It is snowing now as I type this so as soon as deer season is over, the bolt gun goes into the safe and the AR's are back in service. }







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Link Posted: 11/9/2012 4:56:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By GANDYDANCER:
The flashlight. How did it hold up??

Does it still function???

My first and last useless question of the day before I log off.


GD


It works great. I've never had a problem with it. It's a tough light.


Originally Posted By Bizzarolibe:
I wonder if it would've lasted longer with a melonited gas tube


That's a good question. Please don't get me wondering too much because I can't afford to do this again right now.


Originally Posted By RacingJake:
I'd like to see the same test during the summer when it's 100 degrees out and in the sun light

I see that the trigger finger was getting alittle tired too


I would like to know how much of a difference it would make as well. It does show how fast the average trigger finger gets tired!


Originally Posted By EVR:
Originally Posted By JimboJones1:
I like it.. but I think people might be more interested in seeing torture testing in terms of adverse conditions.. packing the rifle with snow, dirt, mud, dropping it from high places etc. In my mind I think that's more of a torture test for the rifle in a more applicable scenario for real world. I can't imagine a situation where I'd rattle off 1k rounds but I can imagine a situation where I might have to throw the rifle from a moving car (not really but an example) or something like that.




OP:

Great test. ANYTHING that involves use, repair, breakage, dropping, shooting, prying, bending, throwing, digging, paddling or scooping with an AR is of great interest and is appreciated! Thanks for posting.

For myself, mine get used a lot, under all conditions, so here's a few pix for JimboJones.

{PS: The pup is now over 100 pounds and trained to pull my sled. It is snowing now as I type this so as soon as deer season is over, the bolt gun goes into the safe and the AR's are back in service. }

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e115/Skaapskieter/SkiTrek02052012SWAR/aaaSkiTrek04052012g.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e115/Skaapskieter/SkiTrek02052012SWAR/aaaSkiTrek04052012h.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e115/Skaapskieter/SkiTrek02052012SWAR/aaaSkiTrek04052012c.jpg



I'm glad you enjoyed the video! Nice pics! You've got a good look dog and AR!

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Link Posted: 11/9/2012 5:30:58 AM EST
Sand, dust, ice, water, mud, gravity, vibration, impact and heat from enviromental conditions is a beter test we have all seen full and semi auto blasting abuse and we are aware of the affects.

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Link Posted: 12/14/2012 7:02:10 AM EST
BTT so it's not archived.

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Link Posted: 12/14/2012 11:53:19 AM EST
IMO the AR is already been battle field tested for around 50 years. As with any machine its weak as well as strong points are well known.

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Link Posted: 12/14/2012 12:44:54 PM EST
I wonder what would have happened if the gun had a JP Enterprises stainless barrel with finned heat sink and free float tube?

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Link Posted: 12/14/2012 3:51:10 PM EST
Remember the scene in aliens with the hallway turrets? That was 1k very fast.

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Link Posted: 12/17/2012 6:33:01 AM EST
Your gas tube didn't melt. I've gotten many tubes glowing red hot via full auto fire with many more rounds than you put through your rifle in a much shorter time. That's the luxury you get when Uncle Sam is putting you on the firing line.

Anyhow, my guess is your gas tube was red hot, probably structurally unstable, and your BCG came forward and the carrier key smacked the gas tube under full force. The gas tube was structurally weak and bent. I bet if you look at the mouth of the gas tube you would see a ding where the carrier key hit it.

I've melted GI issued nylon slings off of M4's before without any issues with the gas tube...unless you had a dollar store gas tube in there

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Link Posted: 12/17/2012 6:45:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By azarby:
I wonder what would have happened if the gun had a JP Enterprises stainless barrel with finned heat sink and free float tube?


It's an interesting product. I never knew of it. I too wonder how much farther the upper would've of got using it.

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Link Posted: 12/17/2012 6:52:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/17/2012 6:54:54 AM EST by suprshootr]
Originally Posted By dyezak:
Your gas tube didn't melt. I've gotten many tubes glowing red hot via full auto fire with many more rounds than you put through your rifle in a much shorter time. That's the luxury you get when Uncle Sam is putting you on the firing line.

Anyhow, my guess is your gas tube was red hot, probably structurally unstable, and your BCG came forward and the carrier key smacked the gas tube under full force. The gas tube was structurally weak and bent. I bet if you look at the mouth of the gas tube you would see a ding where the carrier key hit it.

I've melted GI issued nylon slings off of M4's before without any issues with the gas tube...unless you had a dollar store gas tube in there


Sounds like you are having a lot of fun!

I never thought of that. The gas tube came with the upper so it should be of good quality. I just figured it got so hot from shooting and being enclosed in the double heat shield hand guards that it lost its shape.

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Link Posted: 12/17/2012 7:45:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By williewvr:
Meh 1000 rounds is only 2 normal range days.


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Link Posted: 12/17/2012 10:31:34 AM EST
I'd be wanting my money back. I know there was a time when I was still on AD we didn't want to pull "ammo guard" so we would line up with stacks of mags on the firing line. There would be people behind us loading mags. Some of us would have had to shoot close to 500 rounds or more on burst, with rapid mag changes. That was in our old Colt Jam'O'matics and they came out dirty, but not broken. Those things had a multitude of rounds down them already........

A thousands rounds is barely getting started.

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Link Posted: 12/17/2012 11:33:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/17/2012 11:35:29 AM EST by raarnold45]
Nice test!

It really puts things into perspective with limitations of certain weapons, 700 rounds go pretty darn quick in a intense firefight. Interestingly enough I've read articles before that have run 20k+ rounds through an AR without any stoppages, it must've been at a much slower ROF.

Makes you wonder if you're defending yourself and loved ones against a horde of gang members, how long will your rifle last? Suppressive fire definitely has a place

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Link Posted: 12/17/2012 12:45:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By EVR:
Originally Posted By JimboJones1:
I like it.. but I think people might be more interested in seeing torture testing in terms of adverse conditions.. packing the rifle with snow, dirt, mud, dropping it from high places etc. In my mind I think that's more of a torture test for the rifle in a more applicable scenario for real world. I can't imagine a situation where I'd rattle off 1k rounds but I can imagine a situation where I might have to throw the rifle from a moving car (not really but an example) or something like that.




OP:

Great test. ANYTHING that involves use, repair, breakage, dropping, shooting, prying, bending, throwing, digging, paddling or scooping with an AR is of great interest and is appreciated! Thanks for posting.

For myself, mine get used a lot, under all conditions, so here's a few pix for JimboJones.

{PS: The pup is now over 100 pounds and trained to pull my sled. It is snowing now as I type this so as soon as deer season is over, the bolt gun goes into the safe and the AR's are back in service. }

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e115/Skaapskieter/SkiTrek02052012SWAR/aaaSkiTrek04052012g.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e115/Skaapskieter/SkiTrek02052012SWAR/aaaSkiTrek04052012h.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e115/Skaapskieter/SkiTrek02052012SWAR/aaaSkiTrek04052012c.jpg



Very nice!
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Link Posted: 12/18/2012 6:03:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By arcticwarrior:
I'd be wanting my money back. I know there was a time when I was still on AD we didn't want to pull "ammo guard" so we would line up with stacks of mags on the firing line. There would be people behind us loading mags. Some of us would have had to shoot close to 500 rounds or more on burst, with rapid mag changes. That was in our old Colt Jam'O'matics and they came out dirty, but not broken. Those things had a multitude of rounds down them already........

A thousands rounds is barely getting started.


I think the longer period of sustained heat shooting in semi is why it couldn't get as many rounds down range vs. full auto before failure, but I agree 1000 rounds is just getting started.


Originally Posted By raarnold45:
Nice test!

It really puts things into perspective with limitations of certain weapons, 700 rounds go pretty darn quick in a intense firefight. Interestingly enough I've read articles before that have run 20k+ rounds through an AR without any stoppages, it must've been at a much slower ROF.

Makes you wonder if you're defending yourself and loved ones against a horde of gang members, how long will your rifle last? Suppressive fire definitely has a place


Yes it definitely puts things in perspective.

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