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Posted: 10/16/2012 5:48:41 AM EST
Is it the same as "chrome lined"?
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Posted: 10/16/2012 5:50:45 AM EST
Don't know exactly but, it is not the same as chrome lined.
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Posted: 10/16/2012 5:54:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2012 5:54:48 AM EST by Canthros]
Chrome, molybdenum, and vanadium are impurities added to steel to give it corrosion resistance and other properties. 'Chrome moly vanadium' is almost certainly to do with the steel the barrel is made of, while a "chrome lined" barrel is, well, lined with chrome for high wear and corrosion resistance in the bore and chamber. An unlined barrel may be more accurate, for the same money, but will probably have a shorter useful lifespan, and may be more vulnerable to corrosion in the bore and chamber.

Or so my forum reading would have me believe.
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Posted: 10/16/2012 5:57:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By WS4LIF:
Is it the same as "chrome lined"?

No.
It describes a steel alloy.

All steel is not equal.
They are many different alloys (mixtures) that all have different characteristics.
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Posted: 10/16/2012 6:01:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By Canthros:
Chrome, molybdenum, and vanadium are impurities added to steel to give it corrosion resistance and other properties. 'Chrome moly vanadium' is almost certainly to do with the steel the barrel is made of, while a "chrome lined" barrel is, well, lined with chrome for high wear and corrosion resistance in the bore and chamber. An unlined barrel may be more accurate, for the same money, but will probably have a shorter useful lifespan, and may be more vulnerable to corrosion in the bore and chamber.

Or so my forum reading would have me believe.


This. What barrel are you looking into or have?
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Posted: 10/16/2012 6:43:48 AM EST
It is basically a confusing way of telling people that a barrel is not chrome lined
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Posted: 10/16/2012 6:48:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By SamBram:
It is basically a confusing way of telling people that a barrel is not chrome lined


It can be CMV and chrome lined.

CMV is just the type of metal used to make the barrel.

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Posted: 10/16/2012 6:52:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By srob7001:
Originally Posted By SamBram:
It is basically a confusing way of telling people that a barrel is not chrome lined


It can be CMV and chrome lined.

CMV is just the type of metal used to make the barrel.



I know, but generally when you see it in the barrel's description, it isn't chrome lined.
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Posted: 10/16/2012 6:59:43 AM EST
Originally Posted By SamBram:
Originally Posted By srob7001:
Originally Posted By SamBram:
It is basically a confusing way of telling people that a barrel is not chrome lined


It can be CMV and chrome lined.

CMV is just the type of metal used to make the barrel.



I know, but generally when you see it in the barrel's description, it isn't chrome lined.

....because it's a way of adding "fluff" to the description since they can't say "chrome lined".
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Posted: 10/16/2012 7:01:01 AM EST
The difference between CMV and chrome lined is the same as the difference between a solid gold ring and a gold plated ring. Solid gold is better.
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Posted: 10/16/2012 7:01:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2012 7:01:59 AM EST by Bohr_Adam]
Originally Posted By SamBram:
It is basically a confusing way of telling people that a barrel is not chrome lined


This. Intentionally confusing, since "chrome-lined" is a selling point.
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Posted: 10/16/2012 7:25:20 AM EST
So are PSA M4 uppers chrome lined?

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/you-didn-t-build-that-lower-parts-kit-sale/m4-madness-16-cmv-chrome-lined-stripped-upper-without-bcg-or-charging-handle.html?utm_source=PRVI+M80&utm_campaign=Constant+Contact&utm_medium=email

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Posted: 10/16/2012 7:30:43 AM EST
Originally Posted By WS4LIF:
So are PSA M4 uppers chrome lined?

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/you-didn-t-build-that-lower-parts-kit-sale/m4-madness-16-cmv-chrome-lined-stripped-upper-without-bcg-or-charging-handle.html?utm_source=PRVI+M80&utm_campaign=Constant+Contact&utm_medium=email


Yes.
And as you can see they take the high road and just say CMV on the other.

Now, they may have some carbon steel barrels that are not lined.
The URL you posted links to a chrome lined barrel.
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Posted: 10/16/2012 7:37:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2012 7:38:05 AM EST by 1mitch1]
16" Barrel length
Chrome moly vanadium barrel
5.56 Nato Chamber
1 in 7" twist rate
chrome-lined boreM4 Feed ramps
F-Marked Front sight post
A2 Flash Hider
Sling Loop
Carbine Hand Guards w/ heat sheilds
Forged upper receiver
T-Marks
No logo

According to the description , yes.


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Posted: 10/16/2012 7:39:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2012 7:49:40 AM EST by TrackSol]
Originally Posted By Direct-Drive:
Originally Posted By SamBram:
Originally Posted By srob7001:
Originally Posted By SamBram:
It is basically a confusing way of telling people that a barrel is not chrome lined


It can be CMV and chrome lined.

CMV is just the type of metal used to make the barrel.



I know, but generally when you see it in the barrel's description, it isn't chrome lined.

....because it's a way of adding "fluff" to the description since they can't say "chrome lined".


The terms are mutually exclusive, so just because the barrel is 4140 or 4150 CMV doesn't necessarily mean it's chrome lined. Although they usually are chrome lined and retailers may not state so out of a mistaken notion of redundancy, it would still be a good idea to make sure it has the features and specs you want.

Bravo Company Manufacturing Standard and BFH upper receiver groups are 4150 CMV barrels with chrome bore and chamber and they specifically state so.

Bravo Company Manufacturing website:
Mil-Spec 11595E - Barrel Steel
BCM barrel steel is Mil-Spec per MIL-B-11595E. This grade (CMV) of steel is a Mil-Spec steel used in the USGI M16 family of rifles; it is stronger and will last longer than the typical barrels offered in the commercial market. The Mil-Spec grade steel gets its’ additional strength and rigidity from an increase in carbon and/or vanadium in the alloy. This will offer increased barrel life and performance through use in all types of extreme environments and temperatures.

Chrome Bore and Chamber
One of the first modifications that were made to the original M16 in the mid 1960’s was the addition of the chrome lined bore and chamber. It is now a world wide standard in the industry for a battle rifle. The chrome bore and chamber is harder than the barrel steel and on the USGI M16/M4 rifles will aid in chambering, extraction, and reliability. It increases velocity, and also resist against fouling and corrosion from extended use in the field. This gives the end user a longer barrel life with less required time in maintenance and cleaning.

Additonally, BFH barrels are cold hammer forged:
Cold Hammer Forged Barrels
This process of manufacturing barrels has been used for European small arms for generations, and it is gaining popularity in the United States because of the increased barrel life and outstanding accuracy of a hammer forged barrel. The BCM BFH™ series of barrels are made right here in the USA! (Just like all the BCM products.)


So does Spike's Tactical:

Spike's Tactical website:

Barrel Group
* Barrel Steel is Certified MIL-B-11595E Chromoly Vanadium Alloy
* Raw Barrel Steel is Magnetic Particle Inspected
* Barrels are Stress Relieved
* Mil-Spec M4 Barrel Extension with 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Finish
* 1.2.2.2 MIL-STD-171 Hard Chrome Chamber
* 1.2.2.2 MIL-STD-171 Hard Chrome Bore

* 5.56mm Nato chamber
* All Chambers are Individually Checked for Head Spacing Before and After Plating
* All Barrels are Individually High Pressure Tested (HPT) and then Individually Magnetic Particle Inspected (MPI)
* 5.3.1.2 MIL-STD-171 Phosphate Finish on the Barrel Exterior, Including under the Front Sight Base
* 1/2x28 Thread Pitch
* Threads are Cut Concentric to the Bore
* Gas Block or FSB is Pinned to the Barrel and Vertically Aligned
* Rubber Coated Front Sling Loop
* Mil-Spec 303 Stainless Steel Gas Tube enhanced with Melonite Finish
* Muzzle Devices are Properly Timed and installed with Crush Washer
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Posted: 10/16/2012 7:45:22 AM EST
What's a BFH barrel ?
Made from hammer steel ?
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Posted: 10/16/2012 7:52:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By Direct-Drive:
What's a BFH barrel ?
Made from hammer steel ?


No, it's a method of production, not what it's made of. In Bravo Company's case, it's still made of the same 4150 CMV steel alloy, just that instead of having a barrel blank bore drilled out, the metal is forged around a bore blank "negative"

Cold Hammer Forged (CHF)
Cheaper cost per unit for manufacturer but manufacturing equipment is much more expensive making it harder to profit unless many units are produced and sold, which is why so few companies produce CHF barrels compared to those companies that produce CMV barrels.

CHF barrels are usually chromed lined.

Unlike standard barrel manufacturing, where a barrel blank is placed on a lathe and a machine drills the rifling into the barrel blank, with CHF a barrel blank is placed in a CHF machine and a mandrel with reverse rifling on it is placed in the barrel blank and the machine presses the steel onto the mandrel to press the rifling into the steel.

This process has the potential to make for a more durable and longer lasting barrel if done correctly, otherwise it offers no more barrel longevity than standard manufacturing processes.
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Posted: 10/16/2012 7:54:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By imjb1911:
The difference between CMV and chrome lined is the same as the difference between a solid gold ring and a gold plated ring. Solid gold is better.


Actually, you have it backwards. While it might be true that a solid gold ring is better than a gold plated ring, a chrome lined barrel is better than a CMV barrel.
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Posted: 10/16/2012 7:55:40 AM EST
A chrome lined bore is just a chrome lined bore...not barrel.

Early Colt barrels only had chrome lined bores.

Originally Posted By 1mitch1:
16" Barrel length
Chrome moly vanadium barrel
5.56 Nato Chamber
1 in 7" twist rate
chrome-lined boreM4 Feed ramps
F-Marked Front sight post
A2 Flash Hider
Sling Loop
Carbine Hand Guards w/ heat sheilds
Forged upper receiver
T-Marks
No logo

According to the description , yes.




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Posted: 10/16/2012 8:00:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2012 5:31:29 PM EST by TrackSol]
Originally Posted By chibajoe:
Originally Posted By imjb1911:
The difference between CMV and chrome lined is the same as the difference between a solid gold ring and a gold plated ring. Solid gold is better.


Actually, you have it backwards. While it might be true that a solid gold ring is better than a gold plated ring, a chrome lined barrel is better than a CMV barrel.


I think both of you guys are jumbling up the terms. Chrome lining is a feature that is added for corrosion resistance, not what the barrel is made of. It's added on top of the bore/chamber surface.

You can actually have the following possibilities:
4140
4140 + chrome lined
4150
4150 + chrome lined
Resulfurized 4150
Resulfurized 4150 + chrome lined
CMV
CMV + chrome lined
Hammer Forged 4140
Hammer Forged 4140 + chrome lined
Hammer Forged 4150
Hammer Forged 4150 + chrome lined
Hammer Forged Resulfurized 4150
Hammer Forged Resulfurized 4150 + chrome lined
Hammer Forged CMV
Hammer Forged CMV + chrome lined
+ whatever other proprietary steel alloys manufacturers decide to use
(Obviously not all of these possibilities are made)

Regarding chrome lined, you also have to factor in how uniform it's applied and how thick is it. Then there are alternate treatments that can be used to combat corrosion like Melonite for instance.

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Posted: 10/16/2012 8:12:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By TrackSol:
Originally Posted By chibajoe:
Originally Posted By imjb1911:
The difference between CMV and chrome lined is the same as the difference between a solid gold ring and a gold plated ring. Solid gold is better.


Actually, you have it backwards. While it might be true that a solid gold ring is better than a gold plated ring, a chrome lined barrel is better than a CMV barrel.


I think both of you guys are jumbling up the terms. Chrome lining is a feature that is added for corrosion resistance, not what the barrel is made of. It's added on top of the bore/chamber surface.

You can actually have the following possibilities:
4140 CMV
4140 CMV + chrome lined
4150 CMV
4150 CMV + chrome lined
Hammer Forged 4140 CMV
Hammer Forged 4140 CMV + chrome lined
Hammer Forged 4150 CMV
Hammer Forged 4150 CMV + chrome lined
+ whatever other proprietary steel alloys manufacturers decide to use

Regarding chrome lined, you also have to factor in how uniform it's applied and how thick is it. Then there are alternate treatments that can be used to combat corrosion like Melonite for instance.



Good and correct information.
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Posted: 10/16/2012 8:18:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2012 8:21:37 AM EST by chibajoe]
Originally Posted By TrackSol:
Originally Posted By chibajoe:
Originally Posted By imjb1911:
The difference between CMV and chrome lined is the same as the difference between a solid gold ring and a gold plated ring. Solid gold is better.


Actually, you have it backwards. While it might be true that a solid gold ring is better than a gold plated ring, a chrome lined barrel is better than a CMV barrel.


I think both of you guys are jumbling up the terms. Chrome lining is a feature that is added for corrosion resistance, not what the barrel is made of. It's added on top of the bore/chamber surface.

You can actually have the following possibilities:
4140 CMV
4140 CMV + chrome lined
4150 CMV
4150 CMV + chrome lined
Hammer Forged 4140 CMV
Hammer Forged 4140 CMV + chrome lined
Hammer Forged 4150 CMV
Hammer Forged 4150 CMV + chrome lined
+ whatever other proprietary steel alloys manufacturers decide to use

Regarding chrome lined, you also have to factor in how uniform it's applied and how thick is it. Then there are alternate treatments that can be used to combat corrosion like Melonite for instance.



When we say a barrel is "chromed lined", I'm pretty sure everybody understands that it actually refers to the bore or bore and chamber being chromed plated, as opposed to the entire barrel.
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Posted: 10/16/2012 8:23:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2012 8:24:20 AM EST by TrackSol]
Originally Posted By chibajoe:
Originally Posted By TrackSol:
Originally Posted By chibajoe:
Originally Posted By imjb1911:
The difference between CMV and chrome lined is the same as the difference between a solid gold ring and a gold plated ring. Solid gold is better.


Actually, you have it backwards. While it might be true that a solid gold ring is better than a gold plated ring, a chrome lined barrel is better than a CMV barrel.


I think both of you guys are jumbling up the terms. Chrome lining is a feature that is added for corrosion resistance, not what the barrel is made of. It's added on top of the bore/chamber surface.

You can actually have the following possibilities:
4140 CMV
4140 CMV + chrome lined
4150 CMV
4150 CMV + chrome lined
Hammer Forged 4140 CMV
Hammer Forged 4140 CMV + chrome lined
Hammer Forged 4150 CMV
Hammer Forged 4150 CMV + chrome lined
+ whatever other proprietary steel alloys manufacturers decide to use

Regarding chrome lined, you also have to factor in how uniform it's applied and how thick is it. Then there are alternate treatments that can be used to combat corrosion like Melonite for instance.



When we say a barrel is "chromed lined", I'm pretty sure everybody understands that it actually refers to the bore or bore and chamber being chromed plated, as opposed to the entire barrel.


I prefer to be specific as to leave without question what I am trying to say.

Now is CMV better than CM? I'm not getting into that can of worms...
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Posted: 10/16/2012 8:29:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By chibajoe:
Originally Posted By TrackSol:
Originally Posted By chibajoe:
Originally Posted By imjb1911:
The difference between CMV and chrome lined is the same as the difference between a solid gold ring and a gold plated ring. Solid gold is better.


Actually, you have it backwards. While it might be true that a solid gold ring is better than a gold plated ring, a chrome lined barrel is better than a CMV barrel.


I think both of you guys are jumbling up the terms. Chrome lining is a feature that is added for corrosion resistance, not what the barrel is made of. It's added on top of the bore/chamber surface.

You can actually have the following possibilities:
4140 CMV
4140 CMV + chrome lined
4150 CMV
4150 CMV + chrome lined
Hammer Forged 4140 CMV
Hammer Forged 4140 CMV + chrome lined
Hammer Forged 4150 CMV
Hammer Forged 4150 CMV + chrome lined
+ whatever other proprietary steel alloys manufacturers decide to use

Regarding chrome lined, you also have to factor in how uniform it's applied and how thick is it. Then there are alternate treatments that can be used to combat corrosion like Melonite for instance.



When we say a barrel is "chromed lined", I'm pretty sure everybody understands that it actually refers to the bore or bore and chamber being chromed plated, as opposed to the entire barrel.


I don't see it that way at all. Chromed lined means the entire barrel.
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Posted: 10/16/2012 8:40:31 AM EST
My PSA carbine is CL bore, and has CL stamped on the barrel. Pretty confident both are CL.


Barrel: 16", Mil-spec Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel, M4A1 profile, 5.56 NATO chamber with a 1:7 right-hand twist , chrome-lined, High pressure Tested and magnetic Particle Inspected, carbine-length gas port, and M4 feedramps. These barrels are made for us by FN Manufacturing here in Columbia, SC and are finished off with a taper pinned, f-marked, front sight post, standard handguards, an A2 flash hider, and are phosphate coated to Mil-specs.


My PSA middy is CL bore, and CMV barrel. Not CL lined.

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Posted: 10/16/2012 8:46:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By WS4LIF:
Originally Posted By chibajoe:
Originally Posted By TrackSol:
Originally Posted By chibajoe:
Originally Posted By imjb1911:
The difference between CMV and chrome lined is the same as the difference between a solid gold ring and a gold plated ring. Solid gold is better.


Actually, you have it backwards. While it might be true that a solid gold ring is better than a gold plated ring, a chrome lined barrel is better than a CMV barrel.


I think both of you guys are jumbling up the terms. Chrome lining is a feature that is added for corrosion resistance, not what the barrel is made of. It's added on top of the bore/chamber surface.

You can actually have the following possibilities:
4140 CMV
4140 CMV + chrome lined
4150 CMV
4150 CMV + chrome lined
Hammer Forged 4140 CMV
Hammer Forged 4140 CMV + chrome lined
Hammer Forged 4150 CMV
Hammer Forged 4150 CMV + chrome lined
+ whatever other proprietary steel alloys manufacturers decide to use

Regarding chrome lined, you also have to factor in how uniform it's applied and how thick is it. Then there are alternate treatments that can be used to combat corrosion like Melonite for instance.



When we say a barrel is "chromed lined", I'm pretty sure everybody understands that it actually refers to the bore or bore and chamber being chromed plated, as opposed to the entire barrel.


I don't see it that way at all. Chromed lined means the entire bore and chamber.

Fixed.

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Posted: 10/16/2012 9:31:22 AM EST
Some of you guys are wrong. The term 4150 cmv Is incorrect as far as Milspec barrel steel is concerned.

It's either 4150, cmv, or resulfurized 4150. Nothing Milspec is 4150 cmv( it technically would be better). They are two differen Alloys. Cmv has a bit more carbon then 4140 (1-5% more) with vanadium added for hardness. 4150 is harder then 4140(normal barrel steel) due to the extra carbon content.

Sure some company could use a 4150 steel that has vanadium. Or some marketing idiot could have just stuck the two together.

Link to spec

Every time I see someone saying 4150 cmv I wanna correct them, you always get the guys who know everything telling me I'm wrong even after I wave the spec sheet in their faces.
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Posted: 10/16/2012 9:33:14 AM EST
Some of you guys are wrong. The term 4150 cmv Is incorrect as far as Milspec barrel steel is concerned.

It's either 4150, cmv, or resulfurized 4150. Nothing Milspec is 4150 cmv( it technically would be better). They are two differen Alloys. Cmv has a bit more carbon then 4140 (1-5% more) with vanadium added for hardness. 4150 is harder then 4140(normal barrel steel) due to the extra carbon content.

Sure some company could use a 4150 steel that has vanadium. Or some marketing idiot could have just stuck the two together.

Link to spec

Every time I see someone saying 4150 cmv I wanna correct them, you always get the guys who know everything telling me I'm wrong even after I wave the spec sheet in their faces.
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Posted: 10/16/2012 5:24:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dannofree:
Some of you guys are wrong. The term 4150 cmv Is incorrect as far as Milspec barrel steel is concerned.

It's either 4150, cmv, or resulfurized 4150. Nothing Milspec is 4150 cmv( it technically would be better). They are two differen Alloys. Cmv has a bit more carbon then 4140 (1-5% more) with vanadium added for hardness. 4150 is harder then 4140(normal barrel steel) due to the extra carbon content.

Sure some company could use a 4150 steel that has vanadium. Or some marketing idiot could have just stuck the two together.

Link to spec

Every time I see someone saying 4150 cmv I wanna correct them, you always get the guys who know everything telling me I'm wrong even after I wave the spec sheet in their faces.


Well I'm not one of those guys. I stand corrected. Learn something new every day. Thanks!

(previous post ammended)
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
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