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THEMAKKER13
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Posted: 8/3/2012 10:12:04 PM

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So I've ordered parts of my AR, but it's not all figured out. Anyways, I was reading about adjustable gas blocks, buffers, and buffer spring kits, so I was thinking about getting a Sprinco/ Tubbs/ or JP (idk which) buffer spring and a Spikes ST-T2, but if I did that, I don't know if the adjustable gas block would be worth it, because I could just tune the gas block instead of buying the other parts. Also, how well do the heavy power springs work with the Spikes buffer? But essentially, I'm wondering what parts I should buy to have a reliable, smooth operating, low recoil gas system (although I understand these have to be balanced I guess). Thanks.
TK5
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Posted: 8/4/2012 12:10:17 AM
It all depends in the individual rifle. I think an adjustable gas block is the smart route. It addresses the gas directly instead of the surrounding parts.
Gamma762
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Posted: 8/4/2012 1:31:53 AM
Originally Posted By THEMAKKER13:
Spikes ST-T2

Why do you want a non-buffering buffer instead of a standard type?
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THEMAKKER13
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Posted: 8/4/2012 8:28:19 AM
Sorry what do you mean by non-buffering? I have just read good things about it, that's why I chose it.
IFBBjuicemonkey
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Posted: 8/4/2012 8:43:00 AM
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By THEMAKKER13:
Spikes ST-T2

Why do you want a non-buffering buffer instead of a standard type?


The popularity of the ST-T2 has always been a bit of a mystery to me considering a normal H1 or H2 will mitigate bolt bounce better.

OP, he is referring to the lack of internal reciprocating weights that help reduce bolt bounce. The ST-T2 has powdered tungsten in it.
madcratebuilder
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Posted: 8/4/2012 8:48:34 AM
The powder filled buffers do not buffer the same is the metal disc buffers. Google is your friend.

My collapsible stock builds are either a Vltor A5 or I start with a H buffer. I used Springco stuff and I didn't see any difference really, maybe in my pistol RE.

Unless you are building something out of the ordinary the standard parts get it done.
THEMAKKER13
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Posted: 8/4/2012 5:37:56 PM
So if I get an adjustable gas block, would it be redundant/ unnecessary to get a heavy buffer and or upgrade buffer spring?
Gamma762
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Posted: 8/4/2012 6:16:19 PM
Originally Posted By THEMAKKER13:
So if I get an adjustable gas block, would it be redundant/ unnecessary to get a heavy buffer and or upgrade buffer spring?

It really all depends on what you are trying to accomplish with your rifle build.

Competition rifle, range toy, benchrest/precision rifle, hunting rifle, defensive/LE patrol rifle, etc.
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THEMAKKER13
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Posted: 8/4/2012 6:23:01 PM
Mostly range toy. Hopefully wont ever have to use it for defense but I plan for the worst. Id like to do competition in the future and will definitely hunt with it if PA ever legalizes hunting with a semi rifle.
Gamma762
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Posted: 8/4/2012 6:27:44 PM
[Last Edit: 8/4/2012 6:27:53 PM by Gamma762]
What barrel and gas system lengths are you looking at?
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TK5
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Posted: 8/4/2012 6:31:05 PM
I wouldn't be buying buffers and springs before you know you need them.
tct1000
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Posted: 8/4/2012 6:32:20 PM
Originally Posted By THEMAKKER13:
So if I get an adjustable gas block, would it be redundant/ unnecessary to get a heavy buffer and or upgrade buffer spring?


In a word, yes. A heavy buffers main purpose is to slow down an over gassed rifle. In a perfect world, you will want a low mass bolt carrier and a lighter buffer to really take advantage of an adjustable gas system (if your looking for recoil management). As for the buffer spring, I wouldn't get too crazy with some of the over/under power springs options out there. Over power springs will cancel most of the benefits of adjustable gas, and the under power springs could give you feeding issues. Hope this helps.
THEMAKKER13
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Posted: 8/4/2012 7:20:30 PM
[Last Edit: 8/4/2012 7:26:59 PM by THEMAKKER13]
16 inch midlength from AR Performance.
I thought the heavy buffer would reduce recoil from what I've read. Am I wrong?
Gamma762
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Posted: 8/4/2012 7:48:37 PM
[Last Edit: 8/4/2012 7:49:44 PM by Gamma762]
Originally Posted By THEMAKKER13:
16 inch midlength from AR Performance.
I thought the heavy buffer would reduce recoil from what I've read. Am I wrong?

It's really only going to reduce perceived recoil if the bolt velocity is high to begin with.

The trap that many fall into is the idea that some kind of "enhanced" part will always be better, higher reliability, or whatever than standard parts. This is categorically untrue.

There's a continuum from excessive energy down to insufficient energy for reliable operation. Those who build and tune rifles for action competition generally try for the lowest energy possible to minimize "recoil", which is really the sight disruption and firearm movement from the function of the action. This is counter productive to high reliability for defensive use, especially if you also figure in a margin for extreme cold environment operation. At the opposite end of the spectrum are parts which are designed to counteract various problems/symptoms from excessive energy, which are often counterproductive if you try to use them in a rifle without excessive energy.... when the better solution is to just fix the timing and energy issues to start with.

My advice would be that you're overthinking it if you're looking for a general use, range toy rifle which may be pressed into service for SHTF or the like. If you're building with a carbine length buffer tube, just get yourself an H or H2 buffer and a standard spring and shoot it. If you have a reasonable gas system/barrel configuration to begin with, adding up a bunch of nonstandard parts just seems like a waste of money and maybe a recipe for failure. Your 16" ARP barrel setup should be fine unless they're running a really oddball gas port diameter. I wouldn't try to apply a bunch of fixes to something that isn't broken, or at least until you know it's broken and how.
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THEMAKKER13
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Posted: 8/4/2012 8:32:00 PM
Yeah I tend to overthink everything haha. Well thanks for the help everyone.
gonzosc1
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Posted: 8/4/2012 11:01:38 PM
if a range toy for plinking every once in awhile, you don't need to put much thought into it. 5.56 and mid lenght gas system is not kickin that hard to being with!
adjustable gas block is nice if you find a round that you like or reload yourself. but if you find yourself jumping from round to round you may end up adjusting it at every shooting session as your round choice changes.
for just a range toy, just build it stock and work on your body position. it would matter what you put on the gun if your body position is wrong. after that you can start to tune it out.
PFC
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Posted: 8/5/2012 12:21:45 AM
The advantage of a CS spring like Tubb’s is that spring performance degrades very little over the service life.
AFAIK the service life of one of these springs is 500,000+ cycles.
Russ4777
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Posted: 8/5/2012 2:24:07 PM
Why not use totally stock parts? They work just fine. Tens of thousands of rifles in the world are working just fine without expensive add-on crap.
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DevL
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Posted: 8/5/2012 3:07:03 PM
[Last Edit: 8/5/2012 3:08:08 PM by DevL]
Originally Posted By madcratebuilder:
The powder filled buffers do not buffer the same is the metal disc buffers. Google is your friend.

My collapsible stock builds are either a Vltor A5 or I start with a H buffer. I used Springco stuff and I didn't see any difference really, maybe in my pistol RE.

Unless you are building something out of the ordinary the standard parts get it done.


So the powder stacks on one end then flys to the other with a dead blow hammer effect. I fail to see how that is different. It is a buffer acting as a buffer. Oh and the best part for your gas system is the correct gas port diameter in your barrel.
PFC
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Posted: 8/5/2012 3:23:54 PM
[Last Edit: 8/5/2012 3:25:37 PM by PFC]
Originally Posted By Russ4777:
Why not use totally stock parts? They work just fine. Tens of thousands of rifles in the world are working just fine without expensive add-on crap.


What is your definition of totally stock?
There is an incredible variation of production ARs produced on the commercial market.
Even the military currently uses a number of variations.
scudzuki
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Posted: 8/5/2012 3:27:52 PM
I recently threw together 4 different rifles with off the shelf parts, barrels, gas blocks, and buffers, none of them specially selected to mitigate the function of a perceived weakness in a mating part, none of them modified in any way. Other than the receivers and LPKs they are all built with different components.

All 4 rifles function perfectly with Wolf WPA, UMC .223, PPU, LC, and other M193 and SS109 5.56 ammo and all of my reloads. I have yet to find a .223 or 5.56 cartridge that will not cycle properly in any of them.

The AR-15 does not generate enough recoil to worry about.

In all likelihood an adjustable gas block would be set once and never adjusted (except maybe for supressed use) but it is certainly all the adjustment you would ever need.

Neat accessory to play with, though.

Joe
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Posted: 8/5/2012 3:42:09 PM
[Last Edit: 8/5/2012 3:44:09 PM by JmPnTX]
If you're buying from AR15Performance I would ask them what buffer/spring combo works best for their barrel.

I have a 16" midlength that was overgassed - port was 0.085" and shoud've been closer to 0.076-0.080" ideally. The other middy I have with a 0.076" port shoots like a dream. An adjustable gas block worked wonders for me - I was surprised how far I had to turn it down. I'm also using a Sprinco enhanced 'blue' spring and ST-T2 buffer, auto-BCG.
TaylorWSO
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Posted: 8/5/2012 4:05:08 PM

Originally Posted By THEMAKKER13:
So I've ordered parts of my AR, but it's not all figured out. Anyways, I was reading about adjustable gas blocks, buffers, and buffer spring kits, so I was thinking about getting a Sprinco/ Tubbs/ or JP (idk which) buffer spring and a Spikes ST-T2, but if I did that, I don't know if the adjustable gas block would be worth it, because I could just tune the gas block instead of buying the other parts. Also, how well do the heavy power springs work with the Spikes buffer? But essentially, I'm wondering what parts I should buy to have a reliable, smooth operating, low recoil gas system (although I understand these have to be balanced I guess). Thanks.
here's the deal, nearly all of that shit is not needed.

The carbine upper has been around long enough that most of the (early) gas issues have been worked out by the decent companies.

You shouldn't need anything, but I'm sure high speed retards will say otherwise, like to get a "smoother gun" less felt recoil and other bullshit.

Saying that you might need to run other parts when you have a specific config.

If you run a can a heavier buffer might be needed.

If you run f/a you might need a heavy buffer/spring to slow it down or control bolt bounce, but Im sure the bolt bounce in a semi AR is a problem as well

If you have a short barrel with over gassed system (most have been fixed/correctly build since the introduction) then you might need that stuff.


Probably 98% of the heavy buffer/spring combos that people run in a normal AR are not needed. Most bought into the kool-aid someone was selling and got the extra stuff becuase they have no idea what they were doing, and thought they were going to get a perceived advantage.

so until you need to correct a problem, buy ammo



Anything is possible, everything is temporary
TaylorWSO
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Posted: 8/5/2012 4:06:05 PM

Originally Posted By Russ4777:
Why not use totally stock parts? They work just fine. Tens of thousands of rifles in the world are working just fine without expensive add-on crap.

THIS!!!!!!!


only the uniformed will tell you to buy the ninja parts
Anything is possible, everything is temporary
ManMan
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Posted: 8/5/2012 5:10:02 PM
My 16in middy goes bang every time with standard spring and carbine buffer.

I've thought about playing with the gas system, but mine works.... Why mess with it
THEMAKKER13
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Posted: 8/5/2012 6:18:13 PM
Well thanks for the help everyone but I got the standard spring, buffer and a Syrac Ordnance adjustable gas block, so we'll see if it's worth it.