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kcobean
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Posted: 7/22/2012 10:46:16 PM
Originally Posted By phurba:
Originally Posted By kcobean:
Originally Posted By Rogue-Sasquatch:
This is the future.

If we can spread this core technology to every kitchen tabletop, there will no longer be a meaningful way to restrict and infringe on the private civilian ownership of modern firearms.

Thread is oh-so-tagged. Nice work, OP.

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:
How long until a 3D printer is considered constructive intent?

TRG


It won't be. The technology is so wide-spectrum in application and so abstract in essence that it would be like the FDA declaring tapwater to be tightly regulated as a medical substance. People, groups, and industries from all walks of life would descend upon them in wrath and fury and nothing would be left behind except maybe a warning to other parts of the bureaucracy to not be as foolish.



Your post makes no sense to me. Are you arguing that because it will become easier to manufacture a firearm that the ATF will no longer try to regulate it? I call BS, and I can see them taking great interest in this thread.


This is a hot topic on the 3D printer forums. Some people want to make plans for gun parts readily available, either to prove gun laws irrelevant or to circumvent them; while others feel that guns are icky and no such thing should happen.

Anyone who knows me here knows that I am hardly an advocate for gun control, however it is simple for an ineligible person to print a gun and buy the non-gun parts online. Is that something that could be regulated? Not really, unless you regulated the printers. The easiest way to control that is to stop the plans from being posted on public forums. But lets be honest here: anyone who wants to circumvent these laws could go learn machining and mill their own AR receiver, and the same thing goes for learning CAD software and running a polymer printer. Does that mean that machinists classes and forums should be regulated? Certainly not. I really feel the same argument applied to 3D printers: basically, there's nothing that anyone can nor should do.


I honestly didn't realize that you could manufacture a firearm without filling out any forms until just now. In that case...PRINT AWAY. I wasn't even thinking about restricted persons.
Screechjet1
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Posted: 7/22/2012 10:53:52 PM

Wow.

That's the future.
"You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be." VADM James Stockdale, USN Good dog, Maddie
double_trouble_2003
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Posted: 7/22/2012 10:54:58 PM
So, do you have to add a serial number?
phurba
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Posted: 7/22/2012 11:07:39 PM
Originally Posted By double_trouble_2003:
So, do you have to add a serial number?


Assuming it follows the same laws as finishing an 80% lower, no, it is not required, though it is recommended. The same regulations regarding manufacturing of course would apply - building for personal use only. Occasional sales (as in because you got bored with it) would be permitted.
This post should not be construed as an indication that I would like to murder people.

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Lancelot
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Posted: 7/22/2012 11:09:51 PM
I set this thread to stay alive and not archive.
Krink
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Posted: 7/22/2012 11:27:21 PM
awesome project I would love to know more about this material
keep torture testing the lower
Vulcan94
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Posted: 7/23/2012 12:08:55 AM
Originally Posted By phurba:
Originally Posted By kcobean:
Originally Posted By Rogue-Sasquatch:
This is the future.

If we can spread this core technology to every kitchen tabletop, there will no longer be a meaningful way to restrict and infringe on the private civilian ownership of modern firearms.

Thread is oh-so-tagged. Nice work, OP.

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:
How long until a 3D printer is considered constructive intent?

TRG


It won't be. The technology is so wide-spectrum in application and so abstract in essence that it would be like the FDA declaring tapwater to be tightly regulated as a medical substance. People, groups, and industries from all walks of life would descend upon them in wrath and fury and nothing would be left behind except maybe a warning to other parts of the bureaucracy to not be as foolish.



Your post makes no sense to me. Are you arguing that because it will become easier to manufacture a firearm that the ATF will no longer try to regulate it? I call BS, and I can see them taking great interest in this thread.


This is a hot topic on the 3D printer forums. Some people want to make plans for gun parts readily available, either to prove gun laws irrelevant or to circumvent them; while others feel that guns are icky and no such thing should happen.

Anyone who knows me here knows that I am hardly an advocate for gun control, however it is simple for an ineligible person to print a gun and buy the non-gun parts online. Is that something that could be regulated? Not really, unless you regulated the printers. The easiest way to control that is to stop the plans from being posted on public forums. But lets be honest here: anyone who wants to circumvent these laws could go learn machining and mill their own AR receiver, and the same thing goes for learning CAD software and running a polymer printer. Does that mean that machinists classes and forums should be regulated? Certainly not. I really feel the same argument applied to 3D printers: basically, there's nothing that anyone can nor should do.


I believe that the ATF would run afoul of the 1st Amendment if they tried that. IIRC there was a case some years ago where some scientific journal won a court case on 1st Amendment ground when they printed or wanted to print an article on how to build an atomic bomb.


Vulcan94

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NY_Shooter
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Posted: 7/23/2012 12:21:42 AM
I'm way too stupid to fully wrap my head around 3D printers. So basically, I consider this some sort of magic or witchcraft.


Very cool. I have way too many questions to ask, but I should probably read up on 3D printers to get an idea of what exactly is going on.


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Posted: 7/23/2012 12:24:14 AM
Now do you want to test fire it with a 3D upper as well? 3D Printed Upper

Awesome to see one tested. I wanted to print a lower rather than the upper, but I didn't think that would go over to well at college with it technically being a firearm once printed.
NY_Shooter
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Posted: 7/23/2012 12:30:51 AM
So you guys can print buttstocks, pistol grips, etc?

I know what I want for Christmas; a 3D printer!
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RDTCU
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Posted: 7/23/2012 12:37:18 AM
Nice, glad someone finally got around to it

Let us know if it starts to fatigue and crack around the buffer tower. I don't see it blowing up in your face, but it probably won't last forever

Depending on the type of polymer, it may run for years with no problems, though.
armygunsmith
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Posted: 7/23/2012 12:57:34 AM
I'm getting my printer put together, a MendelMax. Still waiting on a few parts. Once it is done and calibrated, I'm doing this.
bajavader
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Posted: 7/23/2012 1:18:47 AM
[Last Edit: 7/23/2012 1:24:31 AM by bajavader]
Originally Posted By NY_Shooter:
I'm way too stupid to fully wrap my head around 3D printers. So basically, I consider this some sort of magic or witchcraft.


Very cool. I have way too many questions to ask, but I should probably read up on 3D printers to get an idea of what exactly is going on.





Just youtube MakerBot or 3D printer and you can watch all the amazing things these things can do. Cool thing about 3D printers is you can print a lot of the parts that are needed to build one, so in essence, you can almost print a factory of 3D printers...minus the extruders, power supply, axis guide rods, and other metal and electronic parts, of course.

I will be using my MakerBot to print prototypes and not actual final pieces for actual use.
bajavader
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Posted: 7/23/2012 1:28:21 AM
[Last Edit: 7/23/2012 1:29:10 AM by bajavader]
Originally Posted By armygunsmith:
I'm getting my printer put together, a MendelMax. Still waiting on a few parts. Once it is done and calibrated, I'm doing this.



Let us know how much the MendelMax ended up costing you, if you don't mind sharing. I bought a MakerBot and am looking to try other 3D printers as well. Once I get my extruders calibrated correctly, I will try to print some pieces to make another 3D printer. Right now my MakerBot is nothing more than a monotone rock concert with a light show...lol
AlphaOperator
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Posted: 7/23/2012 2:08:29 AM
Very cool.
- .... the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. -

What don't you understand about "...SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED." ?
armygunsmith
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Posted: 7/23/2012 2:50:50 AM
Originally Posted By bajavader:
Originally Posted By armygunsmith:
I'm getting my printer put together, a MendelMax. Still waiting on a few parts. Once it is done and calibrated, I'm doing this.



Let us know how much the MendelMax ended up costing you, if you don't mind sharing. I bought a MakerBot and am looking to try other 3D printers as well. Once I get my extruders calibrated correctly, I will try to print some pieces to make another 3D printer. Right now my MakerBot is nothing more than a monotone rock concert with a light show...lol


It cost Just over $1,250 for a complete kit. The guy who was selling the MendelMax kits just merged with Trinity Labs. There was a bit of a delay due to backorders, but they have since worked out most of the supply issues. Since you've already got a printer, look up the printed parts for the MendelMax 1.5 on Thingiverse. I really like the Misumi aluminum extrusions, they make the machine rock solid. As it stands right now, I've got the entire printer frame out together and am waiting for the last parts for the hot end and extruder to arrive.
Circuits
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Posted: 7/23/2012 3:12:48 AM
Only real problem for durability here is one of heat. A printable plastic (ABS melts about 230C, PLA at 205C) is too low-temp for sustained use in a firearms application like this.

Keep temps down, or it'll start melting near the hot bits.

Completely usable and fun if you keep the ROF (hence, temps) down.

Licensed 07s, would have to embed a metal plate to carry the required serial number.
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ultramagbrion
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Posted: 7/23/2012 8:49:53 AM
[Last Edit: 7/23/2012 9:10:09 AM by ultramagbrion]
Originally Posted By NY_Shooter:
I'm way too stupid to fully wrap my head around 3D printers. So basically, I consider this some sort of magic or witchcraft.


Very cool. I have way too many questions to ask, but I should probably read up on 3D printers to get an idea of what exactly is going on.




I had to scan through a few articles this morning to get the gist of what they were capable of , for now at least . It was kinda similar to what I was thinking . The printers now look like they are limited to materials that are easily 'extruded' . I didnt actually see the printer running in any of the vids I watched , but I'm assuming it works like a precision . . . uh . . . caulk gun , I guess . . . squirting out the molten material , back-and-forth . . up-and-down, building up a programmed shape , kinda like decorating a cake with a CNC . . . . I think .

The sintered metal units will be great once they come down in price but it's going to be a while before most folks have them in their garages . Watching Jay Leno talk about them at the link posted ( in this or the other link-thread) , he makes it sound a little more useful than it is at this point . For decorative body parts like scoops and trim pieces , it's great and the parts made could be used as they came off the printer , however , the steam engine parts like he was playing with would only be useful as test-fit items and reference pieces . The scanned dimensions could be passed on to a machine shop to be milled and turned from steel , but an item made from the ABS or whatever, has no strength or heat/corrosion resistance . . . . for now .

The AR15 lower is kinda stretching it's limits , you'd not make an upper that could withstand the pressure , at least not yet Still , it's very cool and extremely promising with all the directions you could go .

As far as the manufacture of firearms goes , I dont think these machines will force any law changes , one way or the other . It's still just a matter of making something , whether it be a decorative widget for your daughter , or a suppressor baffle for your buddy in the militia . . . .somethings are GTG , and some are verboten .

Laws are laws , and they're already in place to say what you can and cant make , and what you can or can't do with it once it IS made . I dont think the ATF is going to care HOW you made the suppressor baffle , but the fact that you made it in the first place . Whether you hand carved it with a Dremel and file , spun it up on your bench-top Southbend , hammered it out from a store-bought washer , or spit out 400 an hour from your $400 antique screw machine or $400,000 CNC turning center . . . . the baffle is still illegal to own without jumping through the proper hoops .
“There is no crueler tyranny than that which is perpetuated under the shield of law and in the name of justice.”

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thornejc
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Posted: 7/23/2012 8:51:57 AM
Originally Posted By Screechjet1:

Wow.

That's the future.


I sure as hell hope not... I don't doubt that it works but damn craftsmanship is going to shit
TheRedGoat
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Posted: 7/23/2012 9:53:40 AM
Originally Posted By Rogue-Sasquatch:
This is the future.

If we can spread this core technology to every kitchen tabletop, there will no longer be a meaningful way to restrict and infringe on the private civilian ownership of modern firearms.

Thread is oh-so-tagged. Nice work, OP.

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:
How long until a 3D printer is considered constructive intent?

TRG


It won't be. The technology is so wide-spectrum in application and so abstract in essence that it would be like the FDA declaring tapwater to be tightly regulated as a medical substance. People, groups, and industries from all walks of life would descend upon them in wrath and fury and nothing would be left behind except maybe a warning to other parts of the bureaucracy to not be as foolish.


So you are saying you think this technology will become as pervasive as shoelaces?

TRG
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NY_Shooter
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Posted: 7/23/2012 9:57:47 AM
Originally Posted By bajavader:
Originally Posted By NY_Shooter:
I'm way too stupid to fully wrap my head around 3D printers. So basically, I consider this some sort of magic or witchcraft.


Very cool. I have way too many questions to ask, but I should probably read up on 3D printers to get an idea of what exactly is going on.





Just youtube MakerBot or 3D printer and you can watch all the amazing things these things can do. Cool thing about 3D printers is you can print a lot of the parts that are needed to build one, so in essence, you can almost print a factory of 3D printers...minus the extruders, power supply, axis guide rods, and other metal and electronic parts, of course.

I will be using my MakerBot to print prototypes and not actual final pieces for actual use.


Just YouTubed some videos. That is some wild stuff.

I wonder if someday, they'll be able to use some sort of super durable plastic in a 3D printer. Glock frames, anyone?


Do you take vitamins?
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Posted: 7/23/2012 10:01:10 AM
Have you tried the "throw it down the driveway" torture test yet? Please YouTube it!
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Posted: 7/23/2012 10:55:33 AM
Awesome, just simply awesome. The wave of the future.
Cole2534
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Posted: 7/23/2012 11:11:59 AM
[Last Edit: 7/23/2012 11:16:59 AM by Cole2534]
Did you have to thread the holes, or is the resolution fine enough to recreate those as well?

Excellent work!
"At that time [1909] the chief engineer was almost always the chief test pilot as well. That had the fortunate result of eliminating poor engineering early in aviation." —Igor Sikorsky
DMWalking
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Posted: 7/23/2012 11:26:48 AM
Maybe it's just me, but posting pictures of an operational lower reciever that doesn't have a serial number....That just sounds like your asking for the feds to pound on your door.

Either way, it's still pretty cool.
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