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Posted: 7/12/2012 3:46:41 PM EST
Got a chance to buy a dpms m4 for $600 is there any models i should stay away from if you have any info please share this will be my first ar thanks again

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Link Posted: 7/12/2012 3:49:50 PM EST
they are a good starter gun.

that is about what I paid for mine.

go for it
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Link Posted: 7/12/2012 4:02:26 PM EST
Entry level gun. Not everything is in spec or the highest quality. But for 600 bucks thats a good price.

I have a DPMS thats survived a few carbine courses and 3000 rounds put down the barrel without a single malfunction or failure.

People are going to complain about the rifle but for 600 bucks you are not going to be getting a high dollar high quality Colt rifle.

A good starter gun is what it is. Also it will help you save for some high dollar optics, lights, ect...

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Link Posted: 7/12/2012 4:54:12 PM EST
I have a couple of them and never once has either malfunctioned, they stay in safe now that I build all mine now. But I know I can pull either out and dump a beta mag with no problems.

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Link Posted: 7/12/2012 5:07:47 PM EST
DPMS

Doesn't Pass Military Spec

With that being said neither does my Bushy and people love to bash it but it works and i'm sure a DPMS will work just fine.

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Link Posted: 7/12/2012 5:18:10 PM EST
Thanks everyone i thought that was a good price for a nib even if it is at Walmart it's acutely $589

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Link Posted: 7/12/2012 5:29:44 PM EST
I have one that is my first AR. It is similar to their Bull 24 Special with the Magpul PRS stock. Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50. I have been to the range about a dozen times with it, Never a problem except when with the metal mags that did not like a full mag. Changed to Magpul mags and no more problem.

In zeroing last time to a 50 yard mark I had the scope loosen and not nold position, but I could still put most of a mag in a quater size spot till the scope moved again. I have been very happy with this rifle.

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Link Posted: 7/12/2012 6:35:18 PM EST
Former DPMS owner here. Save your money. I never understand people who are willing to plunk down 600$ on a product with a serious quality deficiency but balk when people tell them to save up a couple hundred more for a product that will actually be worth the money. DPMS is known to use inferior components in their rifles. If you don't want to spend any more than you have to on a decent AR, look into getting a PSA (Palmetto State Armory) AR.
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Link Posted: 7/12/2012 6:47:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/12/2012 6:47:56 PM EST by XxZombieChrisxX]
I havent used a DPMS but have seen a few in their catalog that look really nice. If it were me, I would rather just build my own. I never owned an AR15 before I built mine and it really wasnt bad at all with the good videos that we have on the internet today

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Link Posted: 7/12/2012 7:13:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By darthlaidher:
DPMS

Doesn't Pass Military Spec

With that being said neither does my Bushy and people love to bash it but it works and i'm sure a DPMS will work just fine.


You do realize that there is no commercial "Mil spec" dont you?

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Link Posted: 7/12/2012 7:21:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/12/2012 7:21:43 PM EST by darthlaidher]
Yes I know that.

You cannot stop it now....it's automatic
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Link Posted: 7/12/2012 7:34:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By Bizzarolibe:
Former DPMS owner here. Save your money. I never understand people who are willing to plunk down 600$ on a product with a serious quality deficiency but balk when people tell them to save up a couple hundred more for a product that will actually be worth the money. DPMS is known to use inferior components in their rifles. If you don't want to spend any more than you have to on a decent AR, look into getting a PSA (Palmetto State Armory) AR.


I agree.

If given the choice, I'd go for a PSA instead of a DPMS.
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Link Posted: 7/12/2012 8:15:28 PM EST
I started with a dpms bull barreled upper on a stag lower, functioned perfectly, even with a carbine gas system and Hornady superformance. However it was heavy so I traded it in towards a stag upper, big difference in finish and parts quality, the stag was a nicer upper. The dpms was great for shooting .22LR was pretty accurate at 300 yards, but I'd say that's about it. The BCG seemed rough inside the reciever, the finish wore off the barrel rather quickly. At the same time I've got a friend in the navy who loves his dpms AR (he also managed to break his Keltec P40 so that it had to be reassembled at the factory, he also voted for Obama.)

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Link Posted: 7/12/2012 8:27:14 PM EST
Originally Posted By chris8518:
Got a chance to buy a dpms m4 for $600 is there any models i should stay away from if you have any info please share this will be my first ar thanks again


Don't waste your money. I am forced to keep DPMS guns running for my department and that was no easy task initially.
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Link Posted: 7/13/2012 1:03:52 AM EST
my first AR was a DPMS carbine, I never had a problem. It was by no means a varmint rifle but then again it was a 16" carbine. At 100 yards I could cover my group with my hand. That is better a lot of people with their colts when you actually start comparing targets.

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Link Posted: 7/13/2012 1:59:05 AM EST
My first AR was a DPMS MK12, can't say I ever had any problems with it, although, there were quite a few components that were not mil spec such as the free float rail. Having said that I still have it along with a M&P15 and a Noveske. The DPMS will get you into the AR hobby but it will leave you wanting more if you stick with the platform and get the black gun disease.

Shop around a bit more, maybe swing into a few local gun shops and familiarize yourself with a few more manufacturers before you decide to pull the trigger on the DPMS.


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Link Posted: 7/13/2012 3:47:13 AM EST
I have a DPMS and it performs flawlessly. even dropped it out of a tree (15 FT) scope never moved, never a malfunction. Ive killed quite a few deer with it and couldnt be happier. Its a heavy beast, but one that is reliable. You know the saying about opinions. If you see one you like go for it, shoot it, buy it, and dont look back. Enjoy YOUR EBR, then go build you another one ( thats where the fun begins).

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Link Posted: 7/13/2012 4:27:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By baxsom:
my first AR was a DPMS carbine, I never had a problem. It was by no means a varmint rifle but then again it was a 16" carbine. At 100 yards I could cover my group with my hand. That is better a lot of people with their colts when you actually start comparing targets.


So your bragging about a hand sized group at 100 yards.


Group fired with my 14.5 inch Noveske. Its not the accuracy that makes DPMS suck its the lack of reliablity and the lack of quality control measures that lead to the lack of reliability. Most AR's shoot reasonably well for accuracy. What you pay for is reliability. I have seen more DPMS guns go down in training and in matches than I can count.
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Link Posted: 7/13/2012 5:04:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By Glockfan:
Originally Posted By baxsom:
my first AR was a DPMS carbine, I never had a problem. It was by no means a varmint rifle but then again it was a 16" carbine. At 100 yards I could cover my group with my hand. That is better a lot of people with their colts when you actually start comparing targets.


So your bragging about a hand sized group at 100 yards.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Noveske%20N4%20targets/NoveskeN4group2.jpg

Group fired with my 14.5 inch Noveske. Its not the accuracy that makes DPMS suck its the lack of reliablity and the lack of quality control measures that lead to the lack of reliability. Most AR's shoot reasonably well for accuracy. What you pay for is reliability. I have seen more DPMS guns go down in training and in matches than I can count.
Pat



I'm happy with my DPMS. And my savings.



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Link Posted: 7/13/2012 5:08:23 PM EST
There's two camps, 1 camp is happy with their rifle and those are the people that usually just go to the range and shoot paper and don't dump 1000+ rounds a day. The second camp say's they are garbage, the second camp does carbine courses and such and run their rifles hard. If you're a range shooter a DPMS would do just fine.

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Link Posted: 7/13/2012 6:34:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By darthlaidher:
There's two camps, 1 camp is happy with their rifle and those are the people that usually just go to the range and shoot paper and don't dump 1000+ rounds a day. The second camp say's they are garbage, the second camp does carbine courses and such and run their rifles hard. If you're a range shooter a DPMS would do just fine.


+1.....When it comes time to really put some rounds thru a rifle. Thats when the few hundred more really matters. I started with a rifle below DPMS and have spent more to get a good reliable AR than if I would have just waited and bought a better one first.

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Link Posted: 7/13/2012 6:44:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By YoteSlayer69:
Originally Posted By darthlaidher:
There's two camps, 1 camp is happy with their rifle and those are the people that usually just go to the range and shoot paper and don't dump 1000+ rounds a day. The second camp say's they are garbage, the second camp does carbine courses and such and run their rifles hard. If you're a range shooter a DPMS would do just fine.


+1.....When it comes time to really put some rounds thru a rifle. Thats when the few hundred more really matters. I started with a rifle below DPMS and have spent more to get a good reliable AR than if I would have just waited and bought a better one first.


Yeah you can turn a DPMS into a rifle that you can use and abuse you just have to buy the parts for it, so essentially you're taking the DPMS shell and making it into a totally different gun with the exception of the barrel. I have a Bushmaster that functions flawlessly but i'm going to put a BCM full auto BCG in it in the coming weeks to help the future reliability of the rifle.

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Link Posted: 7/13/2012 6:44:56 PM EST
why does this come up every week?

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Link Posted: 7/13/2012 6:45:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By LongBow12:
why does this come up every week?

Every week since January this year?
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Link Posted: 7/13/2012 6:53:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/13/2012 6:55:02 PM EST by hotbiggun42]
OP just pass on DPMS. $600 is a lot of money and for another $150 you can get a very nice new Spikes Tactical AR15
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Link Posted: 7/13/2012 6:58:38 PM EST
If I read your post's correctly, you said the rifle is $589 at Wal-Mart. If it was me, I would buy it and upgrade it by swapping the DPMS bolt with the BCM proofed bolt. It is

about 75 delivered to you. Run it wet, and shoot the mess out of it. Or look around for a S&W MP sport rifle. It is a bit more expensive but has a better reputation so far.

But if I had cash to burn, I think I would risk it on a 589 rifle.
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Link Posted: 7/13/2012 6:59:23 PM EST
If you shoot a lot, it won't last for you.

Let me clarify that. If you shoot a lot in a short period of time, it won't last.

Ignore those that say they've had their rifles for 12 years, or the ones that say they've put 12,000 rounds through their rifles. Neither of those alone means jack shit. If you have a rifle for 12 years but only shoot a thousand rounds a year or less, then it's not used hard at all. Same for the 12k guy. If it took him 15 years to do it, it doesn't mean that rifle is anything but a range toy.
The guy that puts 12k through his rifle every year is someone who has a legitimate opinion. The guy that has had a rifle for a decade and replaced the bolt and barrel once or twice because he's hit the 60 or 70 thousand mark is someone who had an opinion worth listening to.

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Link Posted: 7/13/2012 7:01:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/13/2012 7:03:33 PM EST by LongBow12]
Originally Posted By bcauz3y:

Originally Posted By LongBow12:
why does this come up every week?

Every week since January this year?





Ha! too true. That and I did the "trolling" thing for a while before joining and it seemed pretty constant (like sometimes twice in one day)....but then again....I'm technically still a troll aren't I?



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Link Posted: 7/13/2012 7:02:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By Unicorn:
If you shoot a lot, it won't last for you.

Let me clarify that. If you shoot a lot in a short period of time, it won't last.


Carried a DPMS sportical on duty for 5 years now. Been through 3 multi-day rifle classes. Qualify every year with 100.

Probably have 6k rounds through it.

I'm not saying DPMS is awesome or top of the line, but they aren't bad for the price point.


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Link Posted: 7/13/2012 7:04:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By LongBow12:
Originally Posted By bcauz3y:

Originally Posted By LongBow12:
why does this come up every week?

Every week since January this year?


Ha! too true. That and I did the "trolling" thing for a while before joining and it seemed pretty constant (like sometimes twice in one day)....but then again....I'm technically still a troll aren't I?



P.S. I wish I could be a tactical penguin
Don't worry my friend. Being a flightless bird carries a whole other world of issues.

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Link Posted: 7/13/2012 7:05:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/13/2012 7:09:09 PM EST by darthlaidher]
Originally Posted By Unicorn:
If you shoot a lot, it won't last for you.

Let me clarify that. If you shoot a lot in a short period of time, it won't last.

Ignore those that say they've had their rifles for 12 years, or the ones that say they've put 12,000 rounds through their rifles. Neither of those alone means jack shit. If you have a rifle for 12 years but only shoot a thousand rounds a year or less, then it's not used hard at all. Same for the 12k guy. If it took him 15 years to do it, it doesn't mean that rifle is anything but a range toy.
The guy that puts 12k through his rifle every year is someone who has a legitimate opinion. The guy that has had a rifle for a decade and replaced the bolt and barrel once or twice because he's hit the 60 or 70 thousand mark is someone who had an opinion worth listening to.


The thing is not everyone is going to buy an AR for hard use. If you think that the only reason people buy AR's is to go to carbine courses and run their rifles hard then you're eliminating a big number of people that will never think about a carbine course. So it all depends, so I wouldn't rule out DPMS all together. Besides its not hard to swap out parts to higher quality parts in the future if he decides to do carbine courses.

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Link Posted: 7/13/2012 7:12:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By darthlaidher:
Originally Posted By Unicorn:
If you shoot a lot, it won't last for you.

Let me clarify that. If you shoot a lot in a short period of time, it won't last.

Ignore those that say they've had their rifles for 12 years, or the ones that say they've put 12,000 rounds through their rifles. Neither of those alone means jack shit. If you have a rifle for 12 years but only shoot a thousand rounds a year or less, then it's not used hard at all. Same for the 12k guy. If it took him 15 years to do it, it doesn't mean that rifle is anything but a range toy.
The guy that puts 12k through his rifle every year is someone who has a legitimate opinion. The guy that has had a rifle for a decade and replaced the bolt and barrel once or twice because he's hit the 60 or 70 thousand mark is someone who had an opinion worth listening to.


The thing is not everyone is going to buy an AR for hard use. If you think that the only reason people buy AR's is to go to carbine courses and run their rifles hard then you're eliminating a big number of people that will never think about a carbine course. So it all depends, so I wouldn't rule out DPMS all together. Besides its not hard to swap out parts to higher quality parts in the future if he decides to do carbine courses.

No kidding.

Putting 12k through a rifle whether over 12 years or in the course of a single is roughly the same, all things considered.

The only difference between 1000 rounds in a month and 1000 rounds in a day is heat, and while heat is metal's worst enemy, it won't make much a difference in the life span of a rifle.

People seem to forget that an AR has a finite life span. It is not meant to run for a lifetime without parts replaced and maintenance.

The primary issue with DPMS rifles, IME, is the lower parts because they aren't made at the same level of QC and materials of the higher end companies.

Still, I trust mine with my life almost daily.

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Link Posted: 7/13/2012 7:20:26 PM EST
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Link Posted: 7/13/2012 8:41:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/13/2012 8:43:40 PM EST by Unicorn]
Originally Posted By darthlaidher:
Originally Posted By Unicorn:
If you shoot a lot, it won't last for you.

Let me clarify that. If you shoot a lot in a short period of time, it won't last.

Ignore those that say they've had their rifles for 12 years, or the ones that say they've put 12,000 rounds through their rifles. Neither of those alone means jack shit. If you have a rifle for 12 years but only shoot a thousand rounds a year or less, then it's not used hard at all. Same for the 12k guy. If it took him 15 years to do it, it doesn't mean that rifle is anything but a range toy.
The guy that puts 12k through his rifle every year is someone who has a legitimate opinion. The guy that has had a rifle for a decade and replaced the bolt and barrel once or twice because he's hit the 60 or 70 thousand mark is someone who had an opinion worth listening to.


The thing is not everyone is going to buy an AR for hard use. If you think that the only reason people buy AR's is to go to carbine courses and run their rifles hard then you're eliminating a big number of people that will never think about a carbine course. So it all depends, so I wouldn't rule out DPMS all together. Besides its not hard to swap out parts to higher quality parts in the future if he decides to do carbine courses.


I never said people buying them for courses or hard. If you just plan on plinking with them , just get whatever you want. A spring breaking or hammer failing just popping cans off a berm isn't that big a deal. Everything works when it's being babied.

You'd have to replace everything on a DPMS in order to "upgrade" so why not just buy quality from the start? The barrel is still 1/9, 4140. The bolt is still not tested, except possibly in batches. The bolt still most likely has the weaker rifle extractor spring. The receiver extension made from 6065 extruded aluminum. The handguards that you can snap with two fingers because it's not fiber reinforced. Oh, wait DPMS uses the extra plastic in their "artic" hand guards or whatever snazzy name they have. The parts that are so shoddily cast that you can take ten triggers and 3 won't fit into the same receiver. Makes for replacement of parts a bit difficult.

Ever notice that nobody ever starts threads like this about Colt, DD, BCM, Noveske, LMT, or Knights? Could that just possibly be a hint about the difference in quality? Or that people who do run courses, or even just spend a lot of time at the range don't really recommend guns like DPMS, Del Ton, Bushmaster, etc? Could that be a second clue? When people who see rifles in use frequently see what brands happens to fail more often. How about competitors? Ever notice they don't recommend what many call commercial or hobbyist rifles?
Nah... just keep going with your "just as good as," line of thinking.

If you want a range toy, get a DPMS or whatever floats your boat.
If you want something to train with, or possibly risk your life with get something better. Colt, LMT, BCM, DD, Noveske, Knights, (those two are freaking expensive and are a bit past the point of diminishing returns). Spike's and S&W are turning out great rifles as well. The SIG M400 seems a pretty good rifle for just a little more than a DPMS Oracle. Especially if you consider the extra $120 or so for sights. MBUS rear, and the cheapest gas block sight you can find (regular flip ups are too short to mount on the majority of gas block rails since for some stupid reason the industry standard for gas blocks with rails is just a hair over 1/4 inch lower than the receiver).

The $600 is probably the Sportacle without dust cover or forward assist. Neither of which are really needed unless you are planning on crawling through the dirt for some reason.


A person who puts 12k in a year is probably not cleaning it every 150 rounds and is more likely to get it hot, and it seems that rifles run quickly seem to be more likely to fail than the same rifle when fired slowly. The person shooting their rifle a lot is probably going to have more dirt and maybe even a little less lube at times when it burns off. It is a test of the rifle system more than slow shooting a hundred rounds, cleaning it, and putting in the closet for a month.

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Link Posted: 7/14/2012 12:23:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By chris8518:
Got a chance to buy a dpms m4 for $600 is there any models i should stay away from if you have any info please share this will be my first ar thanks again


Having owned and fired many ARs, I can contribute a little knowledge to this coversation. Don't ever let the price influence your decision as to the quality of the weapon. Keep in mind, when you see these "top tier" rifles that have laser-etched holograms of company logos with glitter and LED lights on them, along with a full biography of the company rolled into barrel markings, you ARE paying extra for those markings. These additions cost the manufacturer money to have this done and they WILL pass this expense on to you. These are "piece of mind" stamps. In reality, most AR manufacturers get their parts from the exact same companies and sources. Example, you will see lots of Cerro or Harvey Aluminum markings on the uppers from Colt, BCM, DPMS, Del-ton, Bushmaster and just about every other manufacturer's rifles. The same goes with barrels. Most are made by Wilson, ER Shaw or Bulldog. Bolts and carriers also apply here, and again you will see lots of logo engraving, glitter, testing proofs and other "piece of mind" stampings. I own several of these "top tier" rifles and can say that on a couple of occassions, I have ordered and received some that were horribly assembled, with lots of defects to boot. Of course the compainies had great customer service and rectified the situation, but it shows that QC can be lacking even at the "top tier".

As far as reliabilty, I have witnessed top tier rifles completely fail at the range in as little as 50 rounds. I have also seen this happen in "low tier" rifles as well. Last year, I bought a cheap $350 upper, placed it on a CMMG lower and put 3500 rounds through it in the first two weeks. Since then, I have put approximately another 2000 rounds through it without any issues (only real issue is trying to figure out why I wasted ammo like that). I have a full gun range built onto my property, so I can shoot day or night. I abuse this gun pretty hard since it was so inexpensive. I haven't ever cleaned it, but I do lubricate it by squirting a few drops of Hoppes Elite Oil into the ejection port once in a while. I really don't how much or at what rate firing occurs at these carbine courses people talk about. I've never been to one, but as with other vets on these boards, I had the oppurtunity to experience something very similar in real life on a daily basis during deployment. I can say, however, that even though you may run these guns hard, even the "cheap" ones can often hang with the best....


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Link Posted: 7/14/2012 2:17:06 AM EST
I've never owned a DPMS so i won't say anything bad about it, but I do know that for about $65 more you could have an M4ish or middy PSA that specs considerably better. Wouldn't take long to spend that extra money improving the DPMS. Get what you want and enjoy though.
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Link Posted: 7/14/2012 2:23:01 AM EST
For someone that would ask the question in the title of this thread, you will likely never know the difference between DPMS and a higher quality AR.
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Link Posted: 7/14/2012 3:32:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By Unicorn:
Originally Posted By darthlaidher:
Originally Posted By Unicorn:
If you shoot a lot, it won't last for you.

Let me clarify that. If you shoot a lot in a short period of time, it won't last.

Ignore those that say they've had their rifles for 12 years, or the ones that say they've put 12,000 rounds through their rifles. Neither of those alone means jack shit. If you have a rifle for 12 years but only shoot a thousand rounds a year or less, then it's not used hard at all. Same for the 12k guy. If it took him 15 years to do it, it doesn't mean that rifle is anything but a range toy.
The guy that puts 12k through his rifle every year is someone who has a legitimate opinion. The guy that has had a rifle for a decade and replaced the bolt and barrel once or twice because he's hit the 60 or 70 thousand mark is someone who had an opinion worth listening to.


The thing is not everyone is going to buy an AR for hard use. If you think that the only reason people buy AR's is to go to carbine courses and run their rifles hard then you're eliminating a big number of people that will never think about a carbine course. So it all depends, so I wouldn't rule out DPMS all together. Besides its not hard to swap out parts to higher quality parts in the future if he decides to do carbine courses.


I never said people buying them for courses or hard. If you just plan on plinking with them , just get whatever you want. A spring breaking or hammer failing just popping cans off a berm isn't that big a deal. Everything works when it's being babied.

You'd have to replace everything on a DPMS in order to "upgrade" so why not just buy quality from the start? The barrel is still 1/9, 4140. The bolt is still not tested, except possibly in batches. The bolt still most likely has the weaker rifle extractor spring. The receiver extension made from 6065 extruded aluminum. The handguards that you can snap with two fingers because it's not fiber reinforced. Oh, wait DPMS uses the extra plastic in their "artic" hand guards or whatever snazzy name they have. The parts that are so shoddily cast that you can take ten triggers and 3 won't fit into the same receiver. Makes for replacement of parts a bit difficult.

Ever notice that nobody ever starts threads like this about Colt, DD, BCM, Noveske, LMT, or Knights? Could that just possibly be a hint about the difference in quality? Or that people who do run courses, or even just spend a lot of time at the range don't really recommend guns like DPMS, Del Ton, Bushmaster, etc? Could that be a second clue? When people who see rifles in use frequently see what brands happens to fail more often. How about competitors? Ever notice they don't recommend what many call commercial or hobbyist rifles?
Nah...just keep going with your "just as good as," line of thinking.

If you want a range toy, get a DPMS or whatever floats your boat.
If you want something to train with, or possibly risk your life with get something better. Colt, LMT, BCM, DD, Noveske, Knights, (those two are freaking expensive and are a bit past the point of diminishing returns). Spike's and S&W are turning out great rifles as well. The SIG M400 seems a pretty good rifle for just a little more than a DPMS Oracle. Especially if you consider the extra $120 or so for sights. MBUS rear, and the cheapest gas block sight you can find (regular flip ups are too short to mount on the majority of gas block rails since for some stupid reason the industry standard for gas blocks with rails is just a hair over 1/4 inch lower than the receiver).

The $600 is probably the Sportacle without dust cover or forward assist. Neither of which are really needed unless you are planning on crawling through the dirt for some reason.


A person who puts 12k in a year is probably not cleaning it every 150 rounds and is more likely to get it hot, and it seems that rifles run quickly seem to be more likely to fail than the same rifle when fired slowly. The person shooting their rifle a lot is probably going to have more dirt and maybe even a little less lube at times when it burns off. It is a test of the rifle system more than slow shooting a hundred rounds, cleaning it, and putting in the closet for a month.



Keep putting words in my mouth. I never said a DPMS was as good as anything. All I said was it would be ok for the range and if later on he wanted to do carbine courses he could upgrade the parts. As far as 4140 steel in the barrel, by the time his barrel wears out he could of bought several rifles by then.


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Link Posted: 7/14/2012 3:51:59 AM EST
Bought an entry level DPMS Sportical as my first AR years ago. It had short stroking issues from day one. DPMS couldn't fix the issue after sending the upper back to them three times. I ended up selling the upper and getting a different one that worked flawlessly. Today, the only thing left of that DPMS is the receiver...everything else has been stripped/sold/upgraded to better quality parts. It was a great learning experience for me as I went through and replaced everything on the rifle. If I had to do it over again knowing what I know now, I would've paid more money for a better quality firearm up front or just built the thing from the ground up.

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Link Posted: 7/15/2012 10:38:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/15/2012 10:41:13 AM EST by Unicorn]
Originally Posted By darthlaidher:


Keep putting words in my mouth. I never said a DPMS was as good as anything. All I said was it would be ok for the range and if later on he wanted to do carbine courses he could upgrade the parts. As far as 4140 steel in the barrel, by the time his barrel wears out he could of bought several rifles by then.



Pot... kettle.

I never said that the only people who buy ARs are buying them for courses or to run hard.

And don't forget that by the time you upgrade all the parts, you'll spend more than just buying a good rifle from the beginning. Buy once cry once or something like that.

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Link Posted: 7/15/2012 12:15:30 PM EST
Jump on that for $600.

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Link Posted: 7/15/2012 12:26:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/15/2012 12:35:34 PM EST by BallisticTip]
If it goes bang every time you pull the trigger, it is a good rifle. Yes you can have the top of the line Mill Spec Tactical rifle, but you know what? The seldom used $600.00 Wally World special that is not used much will still do the job when needed. .
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Link Posted: 7/15/2012 12:30:32 PM EST
Originally Posted By Bizzarolibe:
Former DPMS owner here. Save your money. I never understand people who are willing to plunk down 600$ on a product with a serious quality deficiency but balk when people tell them to save up a couple hundred more for a product that will actually be worth the money. DPMS is known to use inferior components in their rifles. If you don't want to spend any more than you have to on a decent AR, look into getting a PSA (Palmetto State Armory) AR.



Known by Who? 10 years ago they were a top AR vendor.


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Link Posted: 7/15/2012 12:37:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/15/2012 12:38:24 PM EST by BallisticTip]
Originally Posted By MOLOT:
Originally Posted By Bizzarolibe:
Former DPMS owner here. Save your money. I never understand people who are willing to plunk down 600$ on a product with a serious quality deficiency but balk when people tell them to save up a couple hundred more for a product that will actually be worth the money. DPMS is known to use inferior components in their rifles. If you don't want to spend any more than you have to on a decent AR, look into getting a PSA (Palmetto State Armory) AR.



Known by Who? 10 years ago they were a top AR vendor.



Yes DPMS and Bushmaster were all the rage, during the ban years.
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Link Posted: 7/15/2012 12:50:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By BallisticTip:
If it goes bang every time you pull the trigger, it is a good rifle. Yes you can have the top of the line Mill Spec Tactical rifle, but you know what? The seldom used $600.00 Wally World special that is not used much will still do the job when needed. .


Yep.


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Link Posted: 7/15/2012 12:54:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/15/2012 12:54:40 PM EST by Bizzarolibe]
Originally Posted By MOLOT:
Originally Posted By Bizzarolibe:
Former DPMS owner here. Save your money. I never understand people who are willing to plunk down 600$ on a product with a serious quality deficiency but balk when people tell them to save up a couple hundred more for a product that will actually be worth the money. DPMS is known to use inferior components in their rifles. If you don't want to spend any more than you have to on a decent AR, look into getting a PSA (Palmetto State Armory) AR.



Known by Who? 10 years ago they were a top AR vendor.



I'd say about 80% of those here and on other sites where people have direct lines of communication to the owners and top-level management of hundreds of firearms manufacturers, as well as professional instructors, military personel, police, etc.

As for DPMS's reputation 10 years ago, it is completely irrelevant. Times change. Technology changes. Standards change. DPMS has shown an unwillingness to conform to the base-line standards established by Colt and adhered to by many (currently) reputable AR manufacturers by continuing to manufacture AR's with commercial quality components that are known to be objectively inferior to their [roughly] mil-spec counterparts. It's simple science––and logic.

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Link Posted: 7/15/2012 12:55:16 PM EST
Not a fan of the Sportical.

Can't speak for all, but my 2 DPMS' kick effinging' ass, and that's what's up. Bwahaha.

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Link Posted: 7/16/2012 6:44:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/16/2012 6:46:56 PM EST by Glockfan]
Originally Posted By BallisticTip:
If it goes bang every time you pull the trigger, it is a good rifle. Yes you can have the top of the line Mill Spec Tactical rifle, but you know what? The seldom used $600.00 Wally World special that is not used much will still do the job when needed. .


Thats just the thing it may not and the risk that it will fail is a lot higher than a better firearm. Its simple you get what you pay for. I have seen issues with extraction, out of spec chambers, rifles missing parts from the factory all with DPMS. Nearly every training I go to with rifles the guns I see go down are DPMS. Its a common theme. They may be fine for a paper puncher but if your going to use the rifle for self defense at all don't consider them. I feel so stronly about this because DPMS markets and sells crap to LEO's that can get them killed. If they put a label on their gun that said for range use only I would have no problem with them. But they don't even jack up their standards a bit for rifles destined for LEO's.
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Link Posted: 7/16/2012 7:39:50 PM EST
No problems here with my DPMS Oracle. Fit and finish were much better then expected. Groups nicely with most ammo. Trigger was heavy but not gritty or creepy, $10 JP spring kit fixed that. Only complaint was that the gun was a bit over-gassed (common DPMS issue) but tolerable. So far no regrets for my first AR.

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Link Posted: 7/29/2012 8:04:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/29/2012 8:05:12 AM EST by coalmen]
Originally Posted By YoteSlayer69:
Originally Posted By darthlaidher:
There's two camps, 1 camp is happy with their rifle and those are the people that usually just go to the range and shoot paper and don't dump 1000+ rounds a day. The second camp say's they are garbage, the second camp does carbine courses and such and run their rifles hard. If you're a range shooter a DPMS would do just fine.


+1.....When it comes time to really put some rounds thru a rifle. Thats when the few hundred more really matters. I started with a rifle below DPMS and have spent more to get a good reliable AR than if I would have just waited and bought a better one first.


Also known as "the man" and "the boy" camps in the macho gun world. Most shooter alas are really in "the boy" camp (considered "the girl" camp by "the man" camp) and starter guns like the DPMS will serve their hobby well and save them money. It's the same in the 1911 world. But, what dude really wants to admit he is in "the boy" camp? So, the high end, high priced gear most don't need, or can even appreciate starting out, prospers. For close to $600 OTD it seems like a great "the boy" camp starter gun IMO. So, pick your camp then pick your gun.

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Link Posted: 7/30/2012 11:39:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/30/2012 11:40:09 PM EST by Glockfan]
Originally Posted By coalmen:
Originally Posted By YoteSlayer69:
Originally Posted By darthlaidher:
There's two camps, 1 camp is happy with their rifle and those are the people that usually just go to the range and shoot paper and don't dump 1000+ rounds a day. The second camp say's they are garbage, the second camp does carbine courses and such and run their rifles hard. If you're a range shooter a DPMS would do just fine.


+1.....When it comes time to really put some rounds thru a rifle. Thats when the few hundred more really matters. I started with a rifle below DPMS and have spent more to get a good reliable AR than if I would have just waited and bought a better one first.


Also known as "the man" and "the boy" camps in the macho gun world. Most shooter alas are really in "the boy" camp (considered "the girl" camp by "the man" camp) and starter guns like the DPMS will serve their hobby well and save them money. It's the same in the 1911 world. But, what dude really wants to admit he is in "the boy" camp? So, the high end, high priced gear most don't need, or can even appreciate starting out, prospers. For close to $600 OTD it seems like a great "the boy" camp starter gun IMO. So, pick your camp then pick your gun.


Buying an inferrior product that you will have to replace more often (and that never runs right to start with DPMS) is false economy. You really don't save money in the long run.
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