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Posted: 4/13/2012 7:27:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2012 7:29:33 AM EST by maleante]
If anyone ever wanted "proof", here it is for the unbelievers:



From a thread by ptoguy2002: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_29/217533_Somebody_wanted_6940P_pics____.html&page=1#i1792165
I'll save my thoughts on the people who can spend any amount of dollars on a rifle but can't devote 20 minutes to getting their body in shape for another thread. -skinnysarge79
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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 7:33:33 AM EST
I thought everyone knew that you can shoot .223 in a 5.56 chamber. The question I always see is can you shoot 5.56 in a .223 chamber.

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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 7:35:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By afropro:
I thought everyone knew that you can shoot .223 in a 5.56 chamber. The question I always see is can you shoot 5.56 in a .223 chamber.


+1 - I didn't realize there was any confusion surrounding .223 in a 5.56 gun.

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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 7:37:59 AM EST
Already knew that, but thanks for the pic to add to the collection of evidence.

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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 7:47:03 AM EST
This isn't a question many needed an answer to, is it?

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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 7:54:21 AM EST
That picture doesn't strike me so much as "proof" as it does a restatement of an already establsihed fact: that because NATO chambers have a longer throat, they therefore can safely accommodate the .223. cartridge.

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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 7:56:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2012 7:57:09 AM EST by StagTodd]
Pretty sure people get it backwards.. http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp102/todoubled05/b26876ed.jpg

Math is fun yaaaaaayyy!

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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 8:00:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By tctlrld:
Originally Posted By afropro:
I thought everyone knew that you can shoot .223 in a 5.56 chamber. The question I always see is can you shoot 5.56 in a .223 chamber.


+1 - I didn't realize there was any confusion surrounding .223 in a 5.56 gun.

+ 1

In this instance even a fool can get by safely.
Inherently idiot proof.

It's the other way 5.56 ––––->.223 where idiots have problems.

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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 8:04:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By StagTodd:
Pretty sure people get it backwards.. http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp102/todoubled05/b26876ed.jpg

Math is fun yaaaaaayyy!

There all .224 yaaaaaayyy!
You're dangerously close to the idiot category

Forget pill diameter....it's all about the chamber.

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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 8:30:32 AM EST

Math is fun yaaaaaayyy![/quote]
There all .224 yaaaaaayyy!
You're dangerously close to the idiot category

Forget pill diameter....it's all about the chamber.
[/quote]

.223 and 5.56 Not the same.
There and they're Not the same either
Engrish is fun too !!!

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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 8:36:23 AM EST
:( * note to self this forum lacks a sense of humor.*

If a 5.56 chamber can shoot a .223 but a .223 is bigger then a 5.56 how is this possible?

*scratches head*


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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 8:40:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By StagTodd:
:( * note to self this forum lacks a sense of humor.*

If a 5.56 chamber can shoot a .223 but a .223 is bigger then a 5.56 how is this possible?

*scratches head*



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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 8:47:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2012 8:54:13 AM EST by Direct-Drive]
Originally Posted By duckdog:
.223 and 5.56 Not the same.
There and they're Not the same either
Engrish is fun too !!!

You had better immediately inform the barrel makes of these important findings.
But fix yer Engrish so they won't think that it's a Chinese trick.




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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 8:51:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2012 8:55:01 AM EST by Direct-Drive]
Originally Posted By StagTodd:
:( * note to self this forum lacks a sense of humor.*

If a 5.56 chamber can shoot a .223 but a .223 is bigger then a 5.56 how is this possible?

*scratches head*


Where can I find some .220 pills for my .220 Swift.?
Wish they'd stop making barrels with weird bores.


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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 8:52:17 AM EST
Originally Posted By tctlrld:
Originally Posted By afropro:
I thought everyone knew that you can shoot .223 in a 5.56 chamber. The question I always see is can you shoot 5.56 in a .223 chamber.


+1 - I didn't realize there was any confusion surrounding .223 in a 5.56 gun.


this ^

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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 8:53:53 AM EST
I think where some, get confused is when they see a .223 Wylde chamber that can shoot 5.56 ammo. I did, but that has been corrected.

RJ

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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 9:01:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By StagTodd:
:( * note to self this forum lacks a sense of humor.*

If a 5.56 chamber can shoot a .223 but a .223 is bigger then a 5.56 how is this possible?

*scratches head*


Can't tell if this question is serious or you being funny again.

The chamber is what's different, both .223 and 5.56mm use the same diameter projectiles (.224).

You need to read up on the differences in chambers. Your head will spin when you start looking at all the variations of .223 chambers. I think my buddy said there are like 40+ different types of actual .223 labeled chambers.





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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 9:02:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By Direct-Drive:
Originally Posted By StagTodd:
:( * note to self this forum lacks a sense of humor.*

If a 5.56 chamber can shoot a .223 but a .223 is bigger then a 5.56 how is this possible?

*scratches head*


Where can I find some .220 pills for my .220 Swift.?
Wish they'd stop making barrels with weird bores.



.220000 you mean. *clap clap*

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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 9:03:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By rrjacobo95269:
I think where some, get confused is when they see a .223 Wylde chamber that can shoot 5.56 ammo. I did, but that has been corrected.

RJ

Yep, they should just call it a "Wylde" chamber or a .223/5.56 Wylde chmaber.
Vendors will usually provide a "What is a Wylde Chamber ?" link when they're listing those chambers.
I have one and it runs Lake City XM193 great.

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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 9:06:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By StagTodd:
:( * note to self this forum lacks a sense of humor.*

If a 5.56 chamber can shoot a .223 but a .223 is bigger then a 5.56 how is this possible?

*scratches head*


Todd, get on the fuggin bus or you're going to blow yourself up.



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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 9:59:01 AM EST
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Originally Posted By PAEBR332: Congratulations. This post has a created a stupidity event horizon from which no logic, reason or science will ever escape.
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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 10:55:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2012 12:06:32 PM EST by StagTodd]
Originally Posted By Zhukov:

Originally Posted By StagTodd:
Pretty sure people get it backwards.. http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp102/todoubled05/b26876ed.jpg

Math is fun yaaaaaayyy!

FWIW - the difference is in measuring barrel diameter with lands vs. grooves. That's why you don't see the numbers match up. Metric measures across the lands, we measure grooves.


Interesting. Didn't know that....

But out of all seriousness what I was trying to show in my original picture /post, was that how easy it is for someone who was uneducated on what will work with what when referring to standard AR-15 rifles. When worked out "mathematically" with the numbers at hand (.223 and 5.56) when converting the .223 to metric you get 5.66mm which you would think is a bigger round then a 5.56.

With that information and that numbers don't lie, one would assume that the smaller round (5.56) could be fired out the bigger chamber (.223) with no problem. When switched obviously you cant load somthing bigger (.223) im something chambered for something smaller (5.56).

This is just the theory I had on why people thought you could shoot a 5.56 out of a .223 chambered rifle.

Does that make sense?

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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 11:21:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2012 11:23:26 AM EST by Obo2]
Originally Posted By StagTodd:
Originally Posted By Zhukov:

Originally Posted By StagTodd:
Pretty sure people get it backwards.. http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp102/todoubled05/b26876ed.jpg

Math is fun yaaaaaayyy!

FWIW - the difference is in measuring barrel diameter with lands vs. grooves. That's why you don't see the numbers match up. Metric measures across the lands, we measure grooves.


Interesting. Didn't know that....

But out of all seriousness what I was trying to show in my original picture /post, was that how easy it is for someone who was uneducated on what will work with what when referring to standard AR-15 rifles. When worked out "mathematically" with the numbers at hand (.226 and 5.56) when converting the .226 to metric you get 5.66mm which you would think is a bigger round then a 5.56.

With that information and that numbers don't lie, one would assume that the smaller bullet (5.56) could be fired out the bigger chamber (.223) with no problem. When switched obviously you cant load somthing bigger (.223) im something chambered for something smaller (5.56).

This is just the theory I had on why people thought you could shoot a 5.56 out of a .223 chambered rifle.

Does that make sense?

It does not make sense both 223 and 556 rounds use the same projectiles they're all 224 diameter. the difference just comes in pressures loaded in the rounds and mainly the throat dimensions in the chamber. The naming conventions of ammunition have a little bit less to do with dimensions and a little bit more to do with classification.

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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 11:21:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2012 11:33:26 AM EST by Direct-Drive]
Originally Posted By StagTodd:
But out of all seriousness what I was trying to show in my original picture /post, was that how easy it is for someone who was uneducated on what will work with what when referring to standard AR-15 rifles. When worked out "mathematically" with the numbers at hand (.226 and 5.56) when converting the .226 to metric you get 5.66mm which you would think is a bigger round then a 5.56.

With that information and that numbers don't lie, one would assume that the smaller bullet (5.56) could be fired out the bigger chamber (.223) with no problem. When switched obviously you cant load somthing bigger (.223) im something chambered for something smaller (5.56).

This is just the theory I had on why people thought you could shoot a 5.56 out of a .223 chambered rifle.

Does that make sense?

I suppose someone coming from outside the firearms world and was a math nut might arrive at that conclusion. Sound familiar ?

Those that have been around guns and especially those that have reloaded know that cartridge designers that were working on a particular bore diameter needed to clearly identify their caliber even though it uses the same bore diameter as many others.

There is a large family of cartridges that use .224 diameter pills (bullets).

Just a few....from memory.

.218 Bee
.219 Zipper
.22 Hornet
.220 Swift
.221 Fireball
.222 Remington
.222 Remington Magnum
.223 Remington
.224 Weatherby Magnum
5.56 NATO

They're simply names like Curly, Moe and Larry.....they don't necessarily represent actual diameters.
The .224 bore, as you can see, is very crowded and I haven't even listed the wildcat family.

The problem comes from someone erroneously thinking (or being told) that "5.56" is just the military designation for ".223" (which of course is false).
Knowing that the bullet diameters are the same only reinforces the thinking error.
It's the chamber difference (freebore region) that gets you. The .223 freebore is shorter and jamming a full power 5.56 in there will spike chamber pressures in the .223 chamber.



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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 11:29:46 AM EST
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Originally Posted By PAEBR332: Congratulations. This post has a created a stupidity event horizon from which no logic, reason or science will ever escape.
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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 11:47:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By StagTodd:
Pretty sure people get it backwards.. http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp102/todoubled05/b26876ed.jpg

Math is fun yaaaaaayyy!


Forget about projectile diameter.
5.56mm is bore diameter (.219") and .223 (us std.) is groove diameter. Both caliber are same and uses same bullet diameter.
The big problem is free bore and leade dimensions.



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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 11:58:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By EdgecrusherXES_45:
Originally Posted By StagTodd:
:( * note to self this forum lacks a sense of humor.*

If a 5.56 chamber can shoot a .223 but a .223 is bigger then a 5.56 how is this possible?

*scratches head*



It is kind of like how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop the world may never know.


^^
What he said.....

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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 11:58:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By StagTodd:
Originally Posted By Zhukov:

Originally Posted By StagTodd:
Pretty sure people get it backwards.. http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp102/todoubled05/b26876ed.jpg

Math is fun yaaaaaayyy!

FWIW - the difference is in measuring barrel diameter with lands vs. grooves. That's why you don't see the numbers match up. Metric measures across the lands, we measure grooves.


Interesting. Didn't know that....

But out of all seriousness what I was trying to show in my original picture /post, was that how easy it is for someone who was uneducated on what will work with what when referring to standard AR-15 rifles. When worked out "mathematically" with the numbers at hand (.226 and 5.56) when converting the .226 to metric you get 5.66mm which you would think is a bigger round then a 5.56.

With that information and that numbers don't lie, one would assume that the smaller bullet (5.56) could be fired out the bigger chamber (.223) with no problem. When switched obviously you cant load somthing bigger (.223) im something chambered for something smaller (5.56).

This is just the theory I had on why people thought you could shoot a 5.56 out of a .223 chambered rifle.

Does that make sense?


Ok, where the heck did the ".226" come into the formula? lol!

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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 12:02:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By jb3006:
Originally Posted By StagTodd:
Pretty sure people get it backwards.. http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp102/todoubled05/b26876ed.jpg

Math is fun yaaaaaayyy!


Forget about projectile diameter.
5.56mm is bore diameter (.219") and .223 (us std.) is groove diameter. Both caliber are same and uses same bullet diameter.
The big problem is free bore and leade dimensions.



To clarify, when you say groove is that the major diameter of the rifling?


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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 12:06:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2012 12:08:55 PM EST by Direct-Drive]
Originally Posted By jb3006:
Originally Posted By StagTodd:
Pretty sure people get it backwards.. http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp102/todoubled05/b26876ed.jpg

Math is fun yaaaaaayyy!


Forget about projectile diameter.
5.56mm is bore diameter (.219") and .223 (us std.) is groove diameter. Both caliber are same and uses same bullet diameter.
The big problem is free bore and leade dimensions.



Great.
Todd's head just exploded.



Actually I think he just uncased the slide rule.

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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 12:07:52 PM EST
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Originally Posted By PAEBR332: Congratulations. This post has a created a stupidity event horizon from which no logic, reason or science will ever escape.
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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 12:08:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2012 12:10:48 PM EST by StagTodd]
Originally Posted By Direct-Drive:
Originally Posted By jb3006:
Originally Posted By StagTodd:
Pretty sure people get it backwards.. http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp102/todoubled05/b26876ed.jpg

Math is fun yaaaaaayyy!


Forget about projectile diameter.
5.56mm is bore diameter (.219") and .223 (us std.) is groove diameter. Both caliber are same and uses same bullet diameter.
The big problem is free bore and leade dimensions.



Great.
Todd's head just exploded.




Hahahah!! Time to leave.

And thanks Z for the lesson.

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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 12:11:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By Zhukov:

Originally Posted By StagTodd:

To clarify, when you say groove is that the major diameter of the rifling?

From 7.62x54R.net:

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww65/hasselblad/LandsandGrooves.jpg


Great information Zhukov. Thanks for sharing.

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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 3:10:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By Coltman77:
Originally Posted By Zhukov:

Originally Posted By StagTodd:

To clarify, when you say groove is that the major diameter of the rifling?

From 7.62x54R.net:

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww65/hasselblad/LandsandGrooves.jpg


Great information Zhukov. Thanks for sharing.



To finish this informative session with my favorite pic



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Link Posted: 4/13/2012 7:43:52 PM EST
Originally Posted By StagTodd:
Originally Posted By jb3006:
Originally Posted By StagTodd:
Pretty sure people get it backwards.. http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp102/todoubled05/b26876ed.jpg

Math is fun yaaaaaayyy!


Forget about projectile diameter.
5.56mm is bore diameter (.219") and .223 (us std.) is groove diameter. Both caliber are same and uses same bullet diameter.
The big problem is free bore and leade dimensions.



To clarify, when you say groove is that the major diameter of the rifling?



Yes Sir.
.219" = bore diameter, 224" is groove diameter and the bullet is .2245"
The groove is maior diameter of the barrel fifling and the bore is the smallest. The 5.56mm is the bore diameter (metric sistem).
The 223 is "nomina US std." caliber, not actual caliber of the rifling once the groove diameter is .224".

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Link Posted: 4/14/2012 9:28:25 PM EST
Stand on the business side of a gun counter for a few hours and you'll invariably be asked about .233 vs. 5.56.


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