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Posted: 3/24/2012 5:37:12 AM EDT
Just terrible stuff I tell ya
 . It's a CMT barrel that LWRC used on their original 2006 piston uppers. I've posted about this upper before and noticed I could not hit the damn gong at 50 yards. I was about to install my 30 cal can back on the upper, glad I didn't. I thought it needed to be re-sighted in so I shot some paper. There is a 2010 post about a Halo I ran on this as well as a recent post in the piston forum. But here is the barrel. The can was on there until 2010/35Kish rounds. I think it was shot out before 50K but I cant tell as I only shoot at steel. Its basically smooth, with a rough throat. Not bad for 55K   ETA a damn wink for the uninformed |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 5:38:51 AM EDT
[#1]
Damn. Throat like Linda Lovelace. |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 5:41:37 AM EDT
[#2]
Holy throat erosion.
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Posted: 3/24/2012 5:43:12 AM EDT
[#3]
Proof that barrels last a lot longer than the few thousand rounds that most seem to think.
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Posted: 3/24/2012 5:44:09 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Proof that barrels last a lot longer than the few thousand rounds that most seem to think. I always thought about 35k was the soonest a 5.56 barrel should wear out. By 50, I wouldn't blame steel, I'd blame 50k rounds. But that's just me. 
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Posted: 3/24/2012 5:45:54 AM EDT
[#5]
damn that sucks i was just about to buy some wolf ammo
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Posted: 3/24/2012 5:48:48 AM EDT
[#6]
Holy crap! 50k rounds is a lotta rounds down the pipe.
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Posted: 3/24/2012 5:52:05 AM EDT
[#7]
Great post! You Sir, are my new hero. It took me 10 years to get 50 k down one of my AR's.
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Posted: 3/24/2012 5:54:10 AM EDT
[#8]
With the money you saved shooting steel, by 50k rounds you could buy a new barrel. I don't see the problem.
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Posted: 3/24/2012 5:57:00 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
damn that sucks i was just about to buy some wolf ammo i dont know if youre joking but i think you'll be ok.
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Posted: 3/24/2012 5:57:20 AM EDT
[#10]
You needed CHF.
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Posted: 3/24/2012 6:00:55 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
With the money you saved shooting steel, by 50k rounds you could buy a new barrel. I don't see the problem. |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 6:02:56 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
damn that sucks i was just about to buy some wolf ammo 50k rounds is way past what the US military demands as service life for a M16 barrel. 6500k is more realistic according to US military testing. 
Source: Weapon Shot Counter Project Manager Naval Surface Warfare Center Crane (NSWC Crane) NDIA Small Arms Symposium 21 May 2009 |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 6:04:11 AM EDT
[#13]
Steel cased ammo just sucks, look what it did to that barrel.
50K rounds on the barrel, almost smoothbore. How many bolts and/or extractors did this crappy ammo wear out? Steel ammo works fine for most (except some runs of Tula), wish I had 50k steel cased to try.
Good pics op. |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 6:04:21 AM EDT
[#14]
First off, YOU ruined that barrel, not the ammo! Why did you cut it in half???? It was still plenty good for shotshells!
Back in the '50's, the Finnish State rifle factory did an endurance accuracy test in which 35,000 rounds were fired thru a barrel. The method they used in the experiment was to gauge the barrel continually and then increase the diameter of the bullets to fit the GROOVE depth, thus avoiding gas blowby from shooting undersized bullets {as occurs as the groove depth increases from erosion}. Result?? Accuracy standard {3cm/3 shots/100m IIRC} was maintained even to 35,000 rounds at which the firing ceased. By the way, OP, very cool thread, thanks for posting!! {I've got a Lee Enfield barrel I sawed in half that looks not quite so bad, but alas, its damage was cause no doubt by inadequate cleaning and consequent pitting over the service life of the weapon. There is something to say for non-corrosive ammo in military weapons, that is for sure.} |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 6:04:28 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
damn that sucks i was just about to buy some wolf ammo 50k rounds is way past what the US military demands as service life for a M16 barrel. 6500k is more realistic according to US military testing. http://i.imgur.com/Yre9j.jpg Source: Weapon Shot Counter Project Manager Naval Surface Warfare Center Crane (NSWC Crane) NDIA Small Arms Symposium 21 May 2009 6500k? 
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Posted: 3/24/2012 6:08:45 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
damn that sucks i was just about to buy some wolf ammo i dont know if youre joking but i think you'll be ok.
yea i was just messing around..still going to buy wolf and run it like crazy through my dd..lol.. |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 6:09:58 AM EDT
[#17]
A lot depends on the RATE of fire, too. Shots from cold barrels not having the same effect that constant full auto firing does.
I'd like to see barrel performance of comparisons, here. No doubt somewhere such exists in ordnance records for the M16? |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 6:13:04 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
damn that sucks i was just about to buy some wolf ammo The OP was being sarcastic - shoot Wolf if you want to. |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 7:12:23 AM EDT
[#19]
Shoulda saved the barrel and made you a muzzle loader
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Posted: 3/24/2012 7:15:39 AM EDT
[#20]
Recrown it park it and sell it on EE.
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Posted: 3/24/2012 7:20:23 AM EDT
[#21]
I fail to see how steel ammo and not the 50k rounds down the barrel is the problem. You had a worn out barrel and just happened to be shooting steel case ammo through it. Big deal.
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Posted: 3/24/2012 7:28:55 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
I fail to see how steel ammo and not the 50k rounds down the barrel is the problem. You had a worn out barrel and just happened to be shooting steel case ammo through it. Big deal. Sarcasm meter is in need of calibration. |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 7:52:49 AM EDT
[#23]
55K of steel case ammo?
Shouldn't there be a (cut in half) stuck case in the chamber? Perhaps permanently welded to the walls? 
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Posted: 3/24/2012 7:58:01 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Just terrible stuff I tell ya. It's a CMT barrel that LWRC used on their original 2006 piston uppers. I've posted about this upper before and noticed I could not hit the damn gong at 50 yards. I was about to install my 30 cal can back on the upper, glad I didn't. I thought it needed to be re-sighted in so I shot some paper. http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e303/taylorwso/DSC00250.jpg There is a 2010 post about a Halo I ran on this as well as a recent post in the piston forum. But here is the barrel. The can was on there until 2010/35Kish rounds. I think it was shot out before 50K but I cant tell as I only shoot at steel. Its basically smooth, with a rough throat. Not bad for 55K http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e303/taylorwso/DSC00252.jpg or shooting 35k rounds did
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Posted: 3/24/2012 8:00:22 AM EDT
[#25]
<Off-topic comment removed - Z>
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Posted: 3/24/2012 8:09:56 AM EDT
[#26]
How many bolts did you go through.
Hell, what all did you have to replace during that time? Is the rifle rebarreled and back running? |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 8:12:00 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
damn that sucks i was just about to buy some wolf ammo I, personally, wouldn't use Wolf. |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 8:16:04 AM EDT
[#28]
Is that a bulge to the right of the paper?
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Posted: 3/24/2012 8:22:31 AM EDT
[#29]
.
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Posted: 3/24/2012 8:24:04 AM EDT
[#30]
<Comment removed - Z> |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 8:27:47 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
damn that sucks i was just about to buy some wolf ammo 50k rounds is way past what the US military demands as service life for a M16 barrel. 6500k is more realistic according to US military testing. http://i.imgur.com/Yre9j.jpg Source: Weapon Shot Counter Project Manager Naval Surface Warfare Center Crane (NSWC Crane) NDIA Small Arms Symposium 21 May 2009 Yep. Most M4/M4A1s need their barrel changed out 6-10K. |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 8:31:10 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
damn that sucks i was just about to buy some wolf ammo 50k rounds is way past what the US military demands as service life for a M16 barrel. 6500k is more realistic according to US military testing. http://i.imgur.com/Yre9j.jpg Source: Weapon Shot Counter Project Manager Naval Surface Warfare Center Crane (NSWC Crane) NDIA Small Arms Symposium 21 May 2009 Yep. Most M4/M4A1s need their barrel changed out 6-10K. Yep, It is quite different for us shooting paper or plate than those with targets that shoot back. I want our troops to have accurate rifles, a barrel is cheap compared to their life. |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 8:35:33 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
damn that sucks i was just about to buy some wolf ammo I, personally, wouldn't use Wolf. just wondering??why not |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 8:37:57 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Just terrible stuff I tell ya. It's a CMT barrel that LWRC used on their original 2006 piston uppers. I've posted about this upper before and noticed I could not hit the damn gong at 50 yards. I was about to install my 30 cal can back on the upper, glad I didn't. I thought it needed to be re-sighted in so I shot some paper. http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e303/taylorwso/DSC00250.jpg There is a 2010 post about a Halo I ran on this as well as a recent post in the piston forum. But here is the barrel. The can was on there until 2010/35Kish rounds. I think it was shot out before 50K but I cant tell as I only shoot at steel. Its basically smooth, with a rough throat. Not bad for 55K http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e303/taylorwso/DSC00252.jpg can you post photos using the macro setting of your camera? |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 8:41:12 AM EDT
[#35]
Please stop bickering
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Posted: 3/24/2012 8:46:15 AM EDT
[#36]
<Warning sent for GD-type nonsense - Z>
to the OP: thanks for sharing the picture! pretty cool to see what that many rounds did to the throat/bore. the key holing shot looks terrible!!! |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 9:28:29 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
damn that sucks i was just about to buy some wolf ammo 50k rounds is way past what the US military demands as service life for a M16 barrel. 6500k is more realistic according to US military testing. http://i.imgur.com/Yre9j.jpg Source: Weapon Shot Counter Project Manager Naval Surface Warfare Center Crane (NSWC Crane) NDIA Small Arms Symposium 21 May 2009 Yep. Most M4/M4A1s need their barrel changed out 6-10K. I guess we need to stop using brass cased ammo then if OP got 50,000 rounds with steel cased!
I know that brass cased ammo prematurely wears my AK rifles.. 
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Posted: 3/24/2012 11:31:16 AM EDT
[#38]
Just in case anyone thinks this the fault of steel-case ammo: Throat erosion is NOT caused by the ammo. If anything, the throat will erode LESS with steel-case ammo which is typically underpowered.
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Posted: 3/24/2012 12:01:21 PM EDT
[#39]
Wow that is incredible. I would love to see Time Warp film the bullet tumbling
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Posted: 3/24/2012 12:07:11 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
damn that sucks i was just about to buy some wolf ammo I, personally, wouldn't use Wolf. just wondering??why not posted a couple months ago that I had trouble about a decade ago with some of their .22 ammo. Running inexpensive ammo through my long guns is not worth the risk. Some here like it, good, I don't buy it so it leaves more for them. |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 12:13:21 PM EDT
[#41]
Nice thread, nice info, nice pics... One question? What did you use to cut the barrel for the pics? (Just curious)
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Posted: 3/24/2012 12:17:06 PM EDT
[#42]
OP are you serious about steel ammo? Because a few people in here seem to think you are.
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Posted: 3/24/2012 12:28:00 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
OP are you serious about steel ammo? Because a few people in here seem to think you are. No, he is joking. |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 12:46:53 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: posted a couple months ago that I had trouble about a decade ago with some of their .22 ammo. Running inexpensive ammo through my long guns is not worth the risk. Some here like it, good, I don't buy it so it leaves more for them. FWIW: In the many years of moderating the ammo forum, I don't know if I've ever seen steel case ammo actually damage a rifle; sticking in the chamber? Sure. |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 1:42:43 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
posted a couple months ago that I had trouble about a decade ago with some of their .22 ammo. Running inexpensive ammo through my long guns is not worth the risk. Some here like it, good, I don't buy it so it leaves more for them. FWIW: In the many years of moderating the ammo forum, I don't know if I've ever seen steel case ammo actually damage a rifle; sticking in the chamber? Sure. I'll bet you haven't had so many people not get an OPs joke either. lol! TaylorWSO, thanks for the thread. Nice barrel pic. |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 1:43:48 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Steel cased ammo just sucks, look what it did to that barrel. 50K rounds on the barrel, almost smoothbore. How many bolts and/or extractors did this crappy ammo wear out? Steel ammo works fine for most (except some runs of Tula), wish I had 50k steel cased to try. Good pics op. same bolt, it looks new on the back end (piston upper) 2 extractors, changes a few springs though. I will do a full writeup on the entire thing when (if) I hear back form LWRC |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 1:50:06 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: or shooting 35k rounds did It was some time after 50k. I had to re adjust the red dot after the can came off so I know It wasn't throwing them sideways then. I had 5k of silver bear and then another 5K of wolf that I went through before last fall. it was shooting fine until last spring (been gone for the summer so I didn't shoot as much as I normally do) BTW I take 28 loaded mags to the range and usually blast through them, letting other people dump them if they want. each time i go, and i usaully go 2-3 times a week |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 1:51:26 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: How many bolts did you go through. Hell, what all did you have to replace during that time? Is the rifle rebarreled and back running? same bolt, and i will do another write up when I get word back form LWRC. It has a new noveske 10.5 CHF barrel. We will see what this will do. |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 1:52:35 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: Is that a bulge to the right of the paper? its a little wavy, grocery bag glued to foam board |
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Posted: 3/24/2012 1:54:16 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: Nice thread, nice info, nice pics... One question? What did you use to cut the barrel for the pics? (Just curious) cutting wheel on a grinder, dremel wouldn't do it |
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