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Link Posted: 12/27/2011 1:24:58 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Quoted:

Rear: it looks like it would be relatively heavy/bulky @ rear.  Beretta Storm/Steyr USR type rear stock design would be cleaner/lighter(realize they are completely different guns).

It would be simpler and stronger if there was no adjustable cheek riser @ rear.  Perhaps an option to add it later, if desired, might make more sense.  

Trigger/trigger guard: AUG style trigger/trigger guard combo would be much more user friendly for shooters wearing mittens/cold weather gloves.  

How do you release the magazine?


Well, here is some cold hard fact that decided the bulkiness of the rear. There is a AR15 lower used there. The widest cross section of an AR15 lower is about 1.4 inches. I have to leave some room for trigger links to pass those places, plus the outer skin thickness. The current width of the lower body is 1.78 inches, with about 0.09 inches each for the skin thickness. That translates to about .1 inches on each side for the link to pass through. If it is a clean sheet lower receiver design, I can easily trim off .2 inches for the thickness of the lower. However, if an AR15 receiver is used, there is very little room for trimming.

Before I lay up the fiber glass, the thumb hole looks big and Ergo feeling of the handling is also great. However, after adding the fiber glass thickness, the hole looks much smaller and ergo becomes sucky. Later on if I can make the lower with injection molding plastic,  I should be able to use pistol grip.

Some people also pointed out that the front hand guard is also bulky. Well, it is the same width with the lower. Theoretically the front end can be trimmed down but it nevertheless needs a step to connect to the rear. That would make the extrude aluminum upper less likely, hence higher manufacturing cost and the final price. The hand guard however, can loss the two side rail while maintain add-on rail option. That way, the front end bulkiness can be alleviated a little bit.

The adjustable stock would not make the existing stock any bulkier. If you go back to see my CAD picture of the lower, there is still a "buffer tube", only much shorter. I can implement a "collapsible" stock just like regular AR15's, only the locking mechanism need to be changed and adjustable range will be limited. However, the place after the AR lower receiver, since there is no pistol grip to be installed there, I have plenty of room to take care of that.


Making the "core" framework/structure as simple as possible(LOP/cheek adjustability being a secondary option) with minimum of parts would be simpler IMHO.

Realized that the "bulkiness" came with AR15 lower receiver w/in rear stock assembly.  

You could have a sharper taper like that of standard AUG stock.

Beretta Storm/AUG USR thumbhole style stock is very functional if the area behind the grip was slightly larger.  It's also more ergonomic in case of winter gloves.



Link Posted: 12/27/2011 1:32:05 PM EDT
[#2]
BTW, I think a highly functional thumbhole stock would have wider market than a pistol grip stock due to politically correct market like California(HUGE).
Link Posted: 12/30/2011 8:40:39 PM EDT
[#3]
As promised, the Longziz #2 is now ready to be released. The link is here

What a year! I am happy for myself for the things I have done, but compare to what's going to happen, I hope the next year will top this one. Anyway, happy new year guys!

And enjoy!
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 7:32:46 AM EDT
[#4]
Guys, I need you help on testing Longziz #2.

Whoever lives in Chicago area, that either have an 6.8SPC upper and/or 6.5 Grendel upper, and willing to help, please contact me. I will ask a friend of mine to meet with you to use Longziz #2 on your rifle, to see if it can feed those caliber efficiently without any problems. Your help will be highly appreciated, and you are welcome to ask for return. Thanks!

Again, happy new year!
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 6:15:10 AM EDT
[#5]
WOW!  I don't often log on to this site as have been working with 6.8, .300 BLK, and cans lately.  Sure been missin' a beauty!  Just WOW!

Longziz ... you are indeed a credit to the community!  And would be a credit to the country should you choose to claim us.  Hope you do.

Must be more than one approach to the problem of making it into production.  Always worth considering many possibilities.  At least one fella got some support through sales to the special ops folks and then made it available to the public.  Doing an M14/M1A is a simpler task as that weapon is already gas piston operated with a captured return spring.  See:  http://shortrifles.com/   (Designer has moved on to another group.)

Please don't misinterpret my next comment as a slight of your work. Not intended that way!

As you continue to develop as a designer, is worth remembering that an analysis of market is important to a financially successful endeavor.

Not sure what larger market there is for your invention.  Civilian semi-auto aftermarket may be limited due to cost.  Civilian auto market limited by numbers but solid because completely new lowers are disallowed by GCA-86.  Completely new lower allowing the use of a RDIAS M16  probably not legal here.  Military market likely to be limited as the competitors include things like the AUG which are well developed and field tested.

As much as I hate the thought, a completely new semi only rifle may be much lower in cost and have the widest market.

Best of luck with the business end of the endeavor!!!!   We're certainly going to be watching and hoping for your success.

Mike



Link Posted: 1/3/2012 11:52:23 AM EDT
[#6]
mstarling, you have made a good point. On the business end, it is almost always different from an engineering point of view. So I would leave that to the professionals. All I want to do, is to be a good designer.

So help is needed!  
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 9:22:24 AM EDT
[#7]
OK, the true face of the Longziz #2 has just been revealed. If I haven't wow you just yet, I hope it will now.

Link Posted: 1/5/2012 12:38:43 PM EDT
[#8]
kick ass.

Dude, thank you for your inroads into weapon design.

I wish the best of luck and success to come your way!
Link Posted: 1/8/2012 5:47:59 PM EDT
[#9]
Tagging this for later reading .

I hate bullpups , but this looks interesting as hell
Link Posted: 2/1/2012 12:27:34 PM EDT
[#10]
Wow, I'm super late to the party, but I just spent quite a bit of time reading the entire thread. Longziz, What a fantastic job all around.  I find your humility and responses very touching at times. I'm Asian, a huge fan of bullpups, and love building ARs, and this thread is 100% WIN . I would absolutely be in line to buy one of these "kits" whenever that may be. One small question though...what the heck is "longziz"?

Viel Glück!
Al
Link Posted: 2/5/2012 1:43:50 PM EDT
[#11]
Sorry for the late response mythaeus, haven't checked in for a long time, and thanks for your kind words. As of "longziz", well, initially I was just wanting to express I have been sleeping for too long, hence, long-ziz. Later I found out that it sounds more like "son of the dragon" in Chinese, which makes me felling even better, until someone pointed out to me that he mistook it to the meaning of "long jizz". I felt a bit embarrassed for a while, but gradually start to like this "misconception".
Link Posted: 2/16/2012 2:28:16 PM EDT
[#12]
Really cool project!

Have you found a way to continue your project in Germany?
Maybe you should check out IWA in March. Maybe you can find some good contacts that could help you?!
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 7:16:20 PM EDT
[#13]
I stumbled on this thread and just finished reading every page of it. Now i am new to the AR world as of just a few weeks ago, so my general knowledge of most of this stuff is pretty much non existent. Though i must say with all technical knowledge aside, you cant deny that you are a very intelligent and determined person. Something that i believe this society is severely starting to lack. Ideas like yours rarely become realities. I am glad you are trying to make it a reality. I wish you all the success in the world and look forward to seeing more of your work and ideas come to life.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             ~Chris
Link Posted: 3/16/2012 7:05:46 AM EDT
[#14]
holy crap. subscribed
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