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mmerrill64
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Posted: 11/19/2011 12:20:28 PM EST
I have several AR's and have build the majority of them and have always used chrome lined barrels. Is the chrome moly barrel as good as the chrome lined? Will it last as long as the chrome lined barrel and be as accurate? I am contemplating another build and am on a tight budget but if the chrome lined barrel is the better choice I have no problem spending the extra cash. Just curious about the advantages and shortcomings of both barrels. Always used chrome lined because that is what the military uses.
colklink
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Posted: 11/19/2011 1:17:48 PM EST
All things being equal, a non chromed bore will not last as long as a chromed bore barrel. That said, with that many rifles, how many rounds would you put through any one? Enough to wear out a chrome moly barrel? And how you shoot and how you clean the barrel will factor in as well. I prefer chrome lined barrels as they are more than accurate enough for me and as much as I shoot will last me a long time. If I were to build a rifle geared more towards accuarcy than reliablilty than I would go non chromed, not to say that they can not be reliable as well. My most shot AR has a non chromed barrel and I have never had a malfunction of any kind. Even with over 500 rounds of wolf with no cleaning.
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Posted: 11/19/2011 1:22:10 PM EST
I go back and forth with this alot...in all reality I would prefer to ditch both of those and go stainless steel. When, not if, a chrome lined barrel fails..the barrel is trashed immediately...stainless or even nitride I think is superior over lined. I have been shooting alot of moly lately and loving the accuracy.
HeavyMetal
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Posted: 11/19/2011 1:26:16 PM EST
Skip eating out for a week, save the money and get a Chrome Lined barrel with the difference.
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cajun3325
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Posted: 11/19/2011 1:32:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2011 1:35:00 PM EST by cajun3325]
Im sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong here but im pretty sure that most reputable manufacturers use either 4140 or 4150 chromemoly vanadium steel for the barrels that are then chrome lined to increase longevity. So get both.
mmerrill64
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Posted: 11/19/2011 1:32:36 PM EST
Thanks guys for the info, think I will go chrome lined, maybe stainless if I find the right deal.
HeavyMetal
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Posted: 11/19/2011 1:36:06 PM EST
Chrome lined barels will easily outlast stainless. Nitride IMO, is the best option at the moment.
I suppose it is possible to convey more ignorance with less words, but I doubt I will ever see it in my lifetime.--Bohr Adam

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bscman
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Posted: 11/19/2011 2:50:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Chrome lined barels will easily outlast stainless. Nitride IMO, is the best option at the moment.


+1
Given the option of chrome lined vs. chrome moly.

Chrome lined barrels will be easier to clean, less susceptible to corrosive ammo (rust/pitting/etc), and can last several thousand rounds longer than a basic chrome moly barrel before accuracy completely falls off.

When talking QUALITY barrels, most shooters (especially in ~16" AR platforms) will not be able to tell the accuracy difference between chrome lined or not.
Some people talk like chrome lining will bring you from .5moa to 3moa. Not true, the difference is fractions of MOA in most situations.
Chrome lining really shines if you're going to get your rifle HOT and keep running it...or mistreat it and clean it infrequently...or if you live in a jungle!
colklink
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Posted: 11/19/2011 2:59:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Chrome lined barels will easily outlast stainless. Nitride IMO, is the best option at the moment.


I would agree with this. I know its not an exact analogy, but look at how long glock barrels last. There are documented reports of trainers putting tens of thousands of rounds through glock barrels with almost no wear so the nitride finish must be good stuff. I would like my next AR I buid to have a nitrided barrel just to give it a try.
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Posted: 11/19/2011 6:07:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By bscman:
Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Chrome lined barels will easily outlast stainless. Nitride IMO, is the best option at the moment.


+1
Given the option of chrome lined vs. chrome moly.

Chrome lined barrels will be easier to clean, less susceptible to corrosive ammo (rust/pitting/etc), and can last several thousand rounds longer than a basic chrome moly barrel before accuracy completely falls off.

When talking QUALITY barrels, most shooters (especially in ~16" AR platforms) will not be able to tell the accuracy difference between chrome lined or not.
Some people talk like chrome lining will bring you from .5moa to 3moa. Not true, the difference is fractions of MOA in most situations.
Chrome lining really shines if you're going to get your rifle HOT and keep running it...or mistreat it and clean it infrequently...or if you live in a jungle!


In my experience, you have a better chance of getting a barrel that will NOT shoot well when it has been chrome lined. Flaked chrome,pits in the lining, and other defects. I have had two 556 barrels like that. I really hesitate to do it again.

To be fair,I also have two AR10s with CL barrels that are fantastic shooters with good ammo. You rolls teh dice,you takes your chances. My next barrel will the nitrated.
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Posted: 11/19/2011 11:09:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By cajun3325:
Im sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong here but im pretty sure that most reputable manufacturers use either 4140 or 4150 chromemoly vanadium steel for the barrels that are then chrome lined to increase longevity. So get both.


90% of the way there!
4140 and 4150 are chrome moly steel. Meaning they have chromium and molybdenum in their alloy. Vanadium isn't in those in any specific quantity though. The "step up" from 4150 does have a specified amount of vanadium in it.
4140 here.

4150 here.

Almost identical except for the carbon content which in this case makes the 4150 a bit stronger.

This is a pic that BCM has posted showing the composition of some types of ordnance steel including the mil-spec CMV.
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Branspop
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Posted: 11/20/2011 4:07:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By colklink:
Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Chrome lined barels will easily outlast stainless. Nitride IMO, is the best option at the moment.


I would agree with this. I know its not an exact analogy, but look at how long glock barrels last. There are documented reports of trainers putting tens of thousands of rounds through glock barrels with almost no wear so the nitride finish must be good stuff. I would like my next AR I buid to have a nitrided barrel just to give it a try.


The Glock barrels and finish are outstanding. They do last a long time. That is not the best analogy in this case, however, as the dynamics are different between handguns and rifles. The heat and pressure are generally greater in a rifle barrel.

And interesting article on erosion:

http://www.fulton-armory.com/%5Cfaqs%5CM14-FAQs%5CTEGauge.htm

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2008/01/barrel-throst-erosion-revealed/
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colklink
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Posted: 11/20/2011 6:17:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By Branspop:
Originally Posted By colklink:
Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Chrome lined barels will easily outlast stainless. Nitride IMO, is the best option at the moment.


I would agree with this. I know its not an exact analogy, but look at how long glock barrels last. There are documented reports of trainers putting tens of thousands of rounds through glock barrels with almost no wear so the nitride finish must be good stuff. I would like my next AR I buid to have a nitrided barrel just to give it a try.


The Glock barrels and finish are outstanding. They do last a long time. That is not the best analogy in this case, however, as the dynamics are different between handguns and rifles. The heat and pressure are generally greater in a rifle barrel.

And interesting article on erosion:

http://www.fulton-armory.com/%5Cfaqs%5CM14-FAQs%5CTEGauge.htm

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2008/01/barrel-throst-erosion-revealed/


I agree with that. Rifles generate much higher pressures and much more gas going through the throat.
If obama is the answer, the question must be really stupid to begin with.

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Posted: 11/20/2011 8:16:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By Unicorn:
Originally Posted By cajun3325:
Im sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong here but im pretty sure that most reputable manufacturers use either 4140 or 4150 chromemoly vanadium steel for the barrels that are then chrome lined to increase longevity. So get both.


90% of the way there!
4140 and 4150 are chrome moly steel. Meaning they have chromium and molybdenum in their alloy. Vanadium isn't in those in any specific quantity though. The "step up" from 4150 does have a specified amount of vanadium in it.
4140 here.

4150 here.

Almost identical except for the carbon content which in this case makes the 4150 a bit stronger.

This is a pic that BCM has posted showing the composition of some types of ordnance steel including the mil-spec CMV.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/bravocompanyusa/steelnet-photo.jpg


nice post
Unicorn
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Posted: 11/20/2011 10:47:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By Branspop:
Originally Posted By colklink:
Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Chrome lined barels will easily outlast stainless. Nitride IMO, is the best option at the moment.


I would agree with this. I know its not an exact analogy, but look at how long glock barrels last. There are documented reports of trainers putting tens of thousands of rounds through glock barrels with almost no wear so the nitride finish must be good stuff. I would like my next AR I buid to have a nitrided barrel just to give it a try.


The Glock barrels and finish are outstanding. They do last a long time. That is not the best analogy in this case, however, as the dynamics are different between handguns and rifles. The heat and pressure are generally greater in a rifle barrel.

And interesting article on erosion:

http://www.fulton-armory.com/%5Cfaqs%5CM14-FAQs%5CTEGauge.htm

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2008/01/barrel-throst-erosion-revealed/


Hopefully a few people will be running the S&W Sports hard and reporting their results. S&W uses the Melonite finish in those bores, so eventually we should have some actual data from actual use. Hopefully.
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eightring
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Posted: 11/20/2011 11:26:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Chrome lined barels will easily outlast stainless. Nitride IMO, is the best option at the moment.


Of course, melonite finish has been used for many decades on heavy machinegun barrels.

One of the commercial reps (I can't remember which company) was saying there is actually a problem with
melonite (nitride) finish on AR15 barrels.

Apparently, the process requires the barrel to be heated to 1100 F.
The thermal cycling can cause the barrel extension to become unpinned from
the barrel. So, only thread tension is holding the extension on the barrel.

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Posted: 11/20/2011 2:37:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By eightring:
Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Chrome lined barels will easily outlast stainless. Nitride IMO, is the best option at the moment.


Of course, melonite finish has been used for many decades on heavy machinegun barrels.

One of the commercial reps (I can't remember which company) was saying there is actually a problem with
melonite (nitride) finish on AR15 barrels.

Apparently, the process requires the barrel to be heated to 1100 F.
The thermal cycling can cause the barrel extension to become unpinned from
the barrel. So, only thread tension is holding the extension on the barrel.



Thread tension is all that has ever held them on. That index pin does NOT go thru the barel extension into the barrel.

I suppose it is possible to convey more ignorance with less words, but I doubt I will ever see it in my lifetime.--Bohr Adam

If LAV promotes using the slide lock/release to chamber a round after a mag change, then he should be ignored.-MP0117
Aimless
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Posted: 11/20/2011 3:11:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By mmerrill64:
I have several AR's and have build the majority of them and have always used chrome lined barrels. Is the chrome moly barrel as good as the chrome lined? Will it last as long as the chrome lined barrel and be as accurate? I am contemplating another build and am on a tight budget but if the chrome lined barrel is the better choice I have no problem spending the extra cash. Just curious about the advantages and shortcomings of both barrels. Always used chrome lined because that is what the military uses.

It should be just as accurate but will not last as long. However it will probably last a LONG time before the average shooter manages to shoot it ou, in fact most people would probably never shoot out a chrome moly barrel, I suspect.
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Posted: 11/20/2011 3:32:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2011 3:41:26 PM EST by epsgunner]
from what I read..

41V45 is the number used for CMV Barrels.. referring to the Carbon content I'm guessing..

Chrome Moly Vandium (sp).. is not the lining.. its the barrel steel..

Chome Lining is added inside the barrel BORE and CHAMBER after..

This is a PSA as to possibly reduce confusion amongst people whom may think were talking the same animal..

4140, 4150 are the 'normal' numbers thrown out..

again.. don't read to much into this (or criticize me).. this is what I read on the internet in some OLDER articles..
BamaInArk
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Posted: 11/20/2011 4:04:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By epsgunner:
from what I read..

41V45 is the number used for CMV Barrels.. referring to the Carbon content I'm guessing..

Chrome Moly Vandium (sp).. is not the lining.. its the barrel steel..

Chome Lining is added inside the barrel BORE and CHAMBER after..

This is a PSA as to possibly reduce confusion amongst people whom may think were talking the same animal..

4140, 4150 are the 'normal' numbers thrown out..

again.. don't read to much into this (or criticize me).. this is what I read on the internet in some OLDER articles..


In simpler terms Chrome Moly equals Chromium Molybdenum. This is what most barrels that are not made from stainless steel are made of. It would be much easier to understand if people would use the term "Lined" vs "Non Lined" barrels rather than Chrome Moly vs Chrome Lined. The barrel is made from the same material. As has been explained.
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Aimless
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Posted: 11/20/2011 4:13:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By BamaInArk:
.


In simpler terms Chrome Moly equals Chromium Molybdenum. This is what most barrels that are not made from stainless steel are made of. It would be much easier to understand if people would use the term "Lined" vs "Non Lined" barrels rather than Chrome Moly vs Chrome Lined. The barrel is made from the same material. As has been explained.

Back when non chrome lined barrels were common I think the use of "chrome moly" came into use because it sounds sort of like chrome lined to inexperienced shooters.
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Engel12626
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Posted: 11/20/2011 11:02:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2011 11:09:06 PM EST by Engel12626]
Originally Posted By Aimless:
Back when non chrome lined barrels were common I think the use of "chrome moly" came into use because it sounds sort of like chrome lined to inexperienced shooters.


Wouldn't surprise me, those marketing guys are good at what they do haha. But the metallurgical reason for the chrome moly name is because it has chromium and molybdenum in the alloy's "recipe."
Camu
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Posted: 11/21/2011 5:55:56 AM EST
Go chrome or go home!

Really though if you are not gonna do mag dumps or "bump fire" you'll be fine with chrome moly. One thing to consider tho...most reputable companies now a days don't even offer a non-chrome lined barrel.

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Posted: 11/21/2011 6:04:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2011 6:05:24 AM EST by evlblkwpnz]
I don't see the point in buying a non-chromelined barrel unless you are building an absolute beater. The difference is usually about $50. It's at least a $500-$600 weapon.... is another $50 going to force you into foreclosure? If so, then you should not buy an AR at all. All of the quality factory ARs that are not SS have CL barrels. There's your sign....
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