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bcd
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Posted: 10/3/2011 9:00:51 AM
[Last Edit: 10/3/2011 9:07:34 AM by bcd]

Clearly superior ? Not a factor ?

Please support your choice with suitable facts.



Raizo_Sekai
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Posted: 10/3/2011 9:50:04 AM
most people do not shoot enough to notice a difference.
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mathecb
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Posted: 10/3/2011 9:53:50 AM
Just another way of rifling a barrel.......nothing special.
Life's too short to shoot ugly rifles.
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evlblkwpnz
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Posted: 10/3/2011 10:52:23 AM
I have owned CHF Noveske and Centurion Arms barrels. They are extremely accurate with the ammos that I have used (the best being Federal XM193). I can only imagine how well they would do with some match ammo. My Colt 6940 and Colt SOCOM barrels are nearly as accurate with the same ammo, but I can tell the difference when they start getting hot. IMO, this is where the benefit of a barrel that is machined from a M249 SAW blank is evident. YMMV....
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hotbiggun42
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Posted: 10/3/2011 11:26:53 AM
I have a Noveske N4 and a BCM with a std barrel and the Noveske is more accurate.
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chibajoe
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Posted: 10/3/2011 12:06:26 PM
[Last Edit: 10/3/2011 12:13:16 PM by chibajoe]
It is a manufacturing process that brings down the per unit cost of making barrels, for a given tolerance; the process itself has no bearing on how good or shitty a barrel will shoot. As a manufacturer, it increases the profit margin for a given barrel at a particular price point. If you can somehow convince stupid people that the barrel (which costs you less to make) is somehow better than the exact same barrel made using a different process, then you can even increase your profit margin by charging a premium for the cheaper (to make) barrels.
Logan09
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Posted: 10/3/2011 12:54:22 PM
[Last Edit: 10/3/2011 2:06:31 PM by Logan09]
Originally Posted By chibajoe:
It is a manufacturing process that brings down the per unit cost of making barrels, for a given tolerance; the process itself has no bearing on how good or shitty a barrel will shoot. As a manufacturer, it increases the profit margin for a given barrel at a particular price point. If you can somehow convince stupid people that the barrel (which costs you less to make) is somehow better than the exact same barrel made using a different process, then you can even increase your profit margin by charging a premium for the cheaper (to make) barrels.


Exactly, people don't seem to realize this. Hammer forging a barrel doesn't make it more accurate(That's up to the skill of the person making it). It's a cheaper way to produce barrels in large quantities. What make's it more expensive is the cost of the machinery. But if your making several thousand barrels a year it's worth it. See AK's. I think people just think it's some new amazing thing that just happened with AR15's but it's been around for a long time with other gun makers. It's a marketing hype, and won't make your barrel any better.
durabo
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Posted: 10/3/2011 12:55:04 PM
Originally Posted By evlblkwpnz:
I have owned CHF Noveske and Centurion Arms barrels. They are extremely accurate with the ammos that I have used (the best being Federal XM193). I can only imagine how well they would do with some match ammo. My Colt 6940 and Colt SOCOM barrels are nearly as accurate with the same ammo, but I can tell the difference when they start getting hot. IMO, this is where the benefit of a barrel that is machined from a M249 SAW blank is evident. YMMV....


OP said nothing about SAW blanks.
evlblkwpnz
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Posted: 10/3/2011 12:57:29 PM
Originally Posted By chibajoe:
It is a manufacturing process that brings down the per unit cost of making barrels, for a given tolerance; the process itself has no bearing on how good or shitty a barrel will shoot. As a manufacturer, it increases the profit margin for a given barrel at a particular price point. If you can somehow convince stupid people that the barrel (which costs you less to make) is somehow better than the exact same barrel made using a different process, then you can even increase your profit margin by charging a premium for the cheaper (to make) barrels.

Ignorance MUST be bliss.
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durabo
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Posted: 10/3/2011 12:57:53 PM
Interesting to not that many users in the poll voted that it is superior yet none have commented on why it is with data.
durabo
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Posted: 10/3/2011 1:00:40 PM
Originally Posted By evlblkwpnz:
Originally Posted By chibajoe:
It is a manufacturing process that brings down the per unit cost of making barrels, for a given tolerance; the process itself has no bearing on how good or shitty a barrel will shoot. As a manufacturer, it increases the profit margin for a given barrel at a particular price point. If you can somehow convince stupid people that the barrel (which costs you less to make) is somehow better than the exact same barrel made using a different process, then you can even increase your profit margin by charging a premium for the cheaper (to make) barrels.

Ignorance MUST be bliss.


What are you talking about? Every single thing he just said was true. Come on man, that information is freely available on the Internet, you aren't new... I'm surprised you would refute that. Would have expected you to actually researched a bit.
Market_Garden
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Posted: 10/3/2011 1:03:16 PM
This is great. Some manufacturers have been doing this for a long time, and their barrels were often derided as "cheap" due to being hammer forged. Now in the last year or two some of the fancy "TIER 1 TACTICAL DUTY RATED EXTREME" manufacturers started making (and marketing) them and now they're a must-have item.
evlblkwpnz
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Posted: 10/3/2011 1:04:04 PM
Originally Posted By durabo:
Originally Posted By evlblkwpnz:
I have owned CHF Noveske and Centurion Arms barrels. They are extremely accurate with the ammos that I have used (the best being Federal XM193). I can only imagine how well they would do with some match ammo. My Colt 6940 and Colt SOCOM barrels are nearly as accurate with the same ammo, but I can tell the difference when they start getting hot. IMO, this is where the benefit of a barrel that is machined from a M249 SAW blank is evident. YMMV....


OP said nothing about SAW blanks.


They are CHF
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durabo
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Posted: 10/3/2011 1:12:04 PM
Originally Posted By evlblkwpnz:
Originally Posted By durabo:
Originally Posted By evlblkwpnz:
I have owned CHF Noveske and Centurion Arms barrels. They are extremely accurate with the ammos that I have used (the best being Federal XM193). I can only imagine how well they would do with some match ammo. My Colt 6940 and Colt SOCOM barrels are nearly as accurate with the same ammo, but I can tell the difference when they start getting hot. IMO, this is where the benefit of a barrel that is machined from a M249 SAW blank is evident. YMMV....[/quote]

OP said nothing about SAW blanks.


They are CHF


I was speaking to that statement. OP was talking about the CHFing process, you are talking about particular barrel types made by top end barrel manufacturers. Barrel material was not stated. Nor are we talking about barrel manufacturers vs. Each other here.

This is a conversation about one barrel making process vs. all others and that is all.

mathecb
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Posted: 10/3/2011 1:14:42 PM
[Last Edit: 10/3/2011 1:15:12 PM by mathecb]
Originally Posted By evlblkwpnz:
Originally Posted By chibajoe:
It is a manufacturing process that brings down the per unit cost of making barrels, for a given tolerance; the process itself has no bearing on how good or shitty a barrel will shoot. As a manufacturer, it increases the profit margin for a given barrel at a particular price point. If you can somehow convince stupid people that the barrel (which costs you less to make) is somehow better than the exact same barrel made using a different process, then you can even increase your profit margin by charging a premium for the cheaper (to make) barrels.

Ignorance MUST be bliss.


Coming from a guy who gets extreme accuracy from Federal XM193.........
Life's too short to shoot ugly rifles.
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LA_357SIG
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Posted: 10/3/2011 1:23:05 PM
Aren't CHF barrels expensive only because the newer manufacturers charging to pay off the more expensinve machinery? CHF is nothing new. Just a new marketing strategy.
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brasidas
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Posted: 10/3/2011 1:28:16 PM
[Last Edit: 10/3/2011 1:28:53 PM by brasidas]
In my limited experience, CHF barrels are slightly less accurate than button rifled ones.
Augee
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Posted: 10/3/2011 1:29:21 PM
A good barrel is a good barrel, whether button rifled or cold hammer forged. There are other far more important factors, I don't use the CHF process in and of itself to determine what barrel to buy. DD happens to make great barrels that are CHF. Colt makes great barrels that are button rifled. I'll use either depending on pricing and availablilty, but I won't pay more for hammer forged itself. CHF isn't what makes them worth the price.

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jonconsiglio
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Posted: 10/3/2011 1:29:56 PM
[Last Edit: 10/3/2011 1:31:27 PM by jonconsiglio]
I agree with Augee. If I want accuracy, I'm looking at the manufacturer, not so much the process (unless I want stainless). If I'm looking at expected life, then I'm looking at both the manufacturer and the process.

I don't know, I had an SR15 barrel just over 15,000 rounds and it was still as accuarate as day one. I had a (Colt non CHF barrel) start to open up a bit after 7,000 rounds a few years back. How much CHF plays into that, I'm not sure, but something in the CHF KAC barrel is extending the life.

I have a hammer forged BCM on it's way this week, so we'll see how that goes. I don't think any manufacturer says anything about it being more accurate, just that it should hold accuracy longer. Since most CHF barrels are also chrome lined, they should be less accurate than a non chrome lined, button rifled barrel from the same company.
hotbiggun42
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Posted: 10/3/2011 2:34:34 PM
Is this a true statement. Most sniper rifles and hi end rifles use CHF barrels. And before you answer with your emotions research a little.
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gundawg82
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Posted: 10/3/2011 2:48:27 PM
I have my PSA lower built, and trying to decide where to go on my Upper, the two i came down to are both PSA's, one is 4150, and one is FN's CHF that PSA uses in half their offerings now.

I am looking to go with 16' middy, and like the Troy TRX standard rail, but the one below is a carbine length gas system, and i have asked them if it would be possible to do in mid-length.

The Dissipator, is mid-length at 16’, and since it has the lower gas block I could change it all out down the road. Just like to remove the front site as well. If you take all the extras out it comes to about 40-50.00 difference between 4150 vs. hammer forged.

http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/2537.php

http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/2265.php
chibajoe
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Posted: 10/3/2011 2:49:10 PM
Originally Posted By evlblkwpnz:
Originally Posted By chibajoe:
It is a manufacturing process that brings down the per unit cost of making barrels, for a given tolerance; the process itself has no bearing on how good or shitty a barrel will shoot. As a manufacturer, it increases the profit margin for a given barrel at a particular price point. If you can somehow convince stupid people that the barrel (which costs you less to make) is somehow better than the exact same barrel made using a different process, then you can even increase your profit margin by charging a premium for the cheaper (to make) barrels.

Ignorance MUST be bliss.


I'll have to take your word on that. You're welcome to post information that refutes what I wrote.
RCarter
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Posted: 10/3/2011 2:59:00 PM
[Last Edit: 10/3/2011 5:44:37 PM by RCarter]
Originally Posted By brasidas:
In my limited experience, CHF barrels are slightly less accurate than button rifled ones.


According to Bravo Company their BFH are button rifled . Button rifling is also a cold forming process .

edit : jk . inside joke w/ someone I figured would see this thread . On a serious note , I'm more worried about the steel used .



wrc777
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Posted: 10/3/2011 3:14:16 PM
[Last Edit: 10/3/2011 3:15:22 PM by wrc777]
Originally Posted By RCarter:
Originally Posted By brasidas:
In my limited experience, CHF barrels are slightly less accurate than button rifled ones.


According to Bravo Company their BFH are button rifled . Button rifling is also a cold forming process .





NM read your post wrong.
js308
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Posted: 10/3/2011 3:15:48 PM
[Last Edit: 10/3/2011 3:17:14 PM by js308]
Looks like many people are voting that don't have a clue what they are talking about. I can't believe option #1 and #2 are leading in the poll.
Option number 2 should read: "Superior on paper for company profits, same quality as button rifle"
jerz_subbie
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Posted: 10/3/2011 3:18:36 PM
I've never noticed a difference in accuracy but then again I don't often shoot for groups. I can shoot groups with rounds touching with both my cryo-treated LMT barrel and CHF DD barrel, that's plenty good for me.

I doubt I'll ever notice the difference, if there is one. I will not pay more for a CHF barrel when I can get a similar, high quality barrel for less. For the same money, sure I'll get CHF.
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