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Posted: 8/18/2011 10:39:21 AM EDT
I am looking at a stainless steel hammer forged barrel, what is the differenc between a hammer forged and a regular barrel, is it a more accurate barrel.
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Posted: 8/18/2011 10:57:18 AM EDT
[#1]
Whos making a SS hammer forged barrel?
This might help http://www.lasc.us/RangingShotBarrelMakingFeature.htm |
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Posted: 8/18/2011 11:00:29 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Whos making a SS hammer forged barrel? This might help http://www.lasc.us/RangingShotBarrelMakingFeature.htm FN makes Stainless CHF barrel's. |
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Posted: 8/18/2011 11:09:19 AM EDT
[#3]
My mistake the upper i guess is hammer forged the barrel is stainless steel FN marked at Palmetto state armory, wondering which is better a stainless barrel or a chrome lined and if there is any qualities that make one better than the other?
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Posted: 8/18/2011 11:20:26 AM EDT
[#4]
It's the cheapest/quickest way to make a whole crap load of barrels quickly. I am still amazed at how sucessfully it was used as a marketing excercise for AR15s.
Guns have been made for several decades with hammer forged barrels Steyr CZ HK Ruger (some what recent) Sako/Tikka FN Winchester (since the 60s apparently) etc. etc. Hammer forging is not the way to make the most accurate barrel. It is a good process for producing a high quality barrel quickly. I wouldn't worry about it. A quality barrel is a quality barrel no matter what the process. And yes, I do believe the barrel on that upper is also hammer forged. |
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Posted: 8/18/2011 12:05:15 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
I am looking at a stainless steel hammer forged barrel, what is the differenc between a hammer forged and a regular barrel, is it a more accurate barrel. All hammer forging machines are not the same, nor are the processes involved, nor are the materials. While it certainly can be a "more accurate barrel", it also may not be as it depends on what it is specifically being compared to. |
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Posted: 8/18/2011 12:27:36 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
It's the cheapest/quickest way to make a whole crap load of barrels quickly. I am still amazed at how sucessfully it was used as a marketing excercise for AR15s. Guns have been made for several decades with hammer forged barrels Steyr CZ HK Ruger (some what recent) Sako/Tikka FN Winchester (since the 60s apparently) etc. etc. Hammer forging is not the way to make the most accurate barrel. It is a good process for producing a high quality barrel quickly. I wouldn't worry about it. A quality barrel is a quality barrel no matter what the process. And yes, I do believe the barrel on that upper is also hammer forged. +1 to everything said. I never understood it either. They put hammer forged in the title, and jack the price up $100 
AK's are also hammer forged, and that's why they last almost forever w/ 10's of thousands of rounds through them on F/A |
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Posted: 8/18/2011 12:44:16 PM EDT
[#7]
IIRC, the germans invented hammer forged barrels. they did it for teh MG42 which ate up barrels big time. but I have a question.
what good is it,if a barrel is chrome lined? |
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Posted: 8/18/2011 1:35:25 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
what good is it,if a barrel is chrome lined? Better selling point
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Posted: 8/18/2011 1:36:16 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
IIRC, the germans invented hammer forged barrels. they did it for teh MG42 which ate up barrels big time. but I have a question. what good is it,if a barrel is chrome lined? I'm going to guess corrosion resistance. However, I agree with your train of thought and wouldn't mind a melonite CHF, like LWRCi. |
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Posted: 8/18/2011 2:08:37 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
IIRC, the germans invented hammer forged barrels. they did it for teh MG42 which ate up barrels big time. but I have a question. what good is it,if a barrel is chrome lined? I'm going to guess corrosion resistance. However, I agree with your train of thought and wouldn't mind a melonite CHF, like LWRCi. Does anyone make a melonite CHF barrel for ar's? |
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Posted: 8/18/2011 2:10:46 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
IIRC, the germans invented hammer forged barrels. they did it for teh MG42 which ate up barrels big time. but I have a question. what good is it,if a barrel is chrome lined? I'm going to guess corrosion resistance. However, I agree with your train of thought and wouldn't mind a melonite CHF, like LWRCi. Does anyone make a melonite CHF barrel for ar's? Yes, LWRCi 
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Posted: 8/18/2011 2:14:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
IIRC, the germans invented hammer forged barrels. they did it for teh MG42 which ate up barrels big time. but I have a question. what good is it,if a barrel is chrome lined? I'm going to guess corrosion resistance. However, I agree with your train of thought and wouldn't mind a melonite CHF, like LWRCi. Does anyone make a melonite CHF barrel for ar's? Yes, LWRCi I have some LWRC rifles but I didn't think they made an AR spec barrel let alone replacement barrels for sale. |
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Posted: 8/18/2011 2:45:56 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
IIRC, the germans invented hammer forged barrels. they did it for teh MG42 which ate up barrels big time. but I have a question. what good is it,if a barrel is chrome lined? I'm going to guess corrosion resistance. However, I agree with your train of thought and wouldn't mind a melonite CHF, like LWRCi. Does anyone make a melonite CHF barrel for ar's? Yes, LWRCi I have some LWRC rifles but I didn't think they made an AR spec barrel let alone replacement barrels for sale. Oooh, sorry no I don't think LWRCi sells replacement barrels. Not sure what you mean by "AR spec barrel", though. If you mean DI vs piston, it's easy enough to open up a gas port to make a piston barrel run DI. I did it with an AA barrel. |
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Posted: 8/18/2011 3:03:14 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's the cheapest/quickest way to make a whole crap load of barrels quickly. I am still amazed at how sucessfully it was used as a marketing excercise for AR15s. Guns have been made for several decades with hammer forged barrels Steyr CZ HK Ruger (some what recent) Sako/Tikka FN Winchester (since the 60s apparently) etc. etc. Hammer forging is not the way to make the most accurate barrel. It is a good process for producing a high quality barrel quickly. I wouldn't worry about it. A quality barrel is a quality barrel no matter what the process. And yes, I do believe the barrel on that upper is also hammer forged. +1 to everything said. I never understood it either. They put hammer forged in the title, and jack the price up $100
AK's are also hammer forged, and that's why they last almost forever w/ 10's of thousands of rounds through them on F/A What is you guys background? I have heard the oppisite. Any data or links to back up your claims? |
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Posted: 8/18/2011 3:25:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Here is a GREAT site on barrels, including CHF: http://www.firearmsid.com/Feature%20Articles/RifledBarrelManuf/BarrelManufacture.htm
And another: http://www.lasc.us/RangingShotBarrelMakingFeature.htm And another: http://technology.calumet.purdue.edu/met/higley/NotesOnHammerForgedBarrels.pdf |
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Posted: 8/18/2011 3:43:35 PM EDT
[#16]
Good links.
The operation is very fast, and only takes about a minute per barrel. Thus, button rifled barrels are usually less costly to produce "Any fool can pull a button through a barrel!" - Boots Obermeyer 
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Posted: 8/18/2011 3:52:42 PM EDT
[#17]
ok i really don't like to get into these topics about barrel types... because for the most part a quick google will be able to give you much more information than most of the hearsay and misinformation that usually winds up in these threads.
but ill say this much. CHFing is a quick and easy process for manufacturing many many barrels very cheaply. A CHF costs ALOT of money. Think milllions. This is one of the reasons there aren't many of them around in America. Some speculate that the initial setup investment is one of the reasons for the upcharge. The CHF process induces ALOT of stress in the barrel. This stress must be relieved. One of the reasons I don't personally like CHF'ed barrels is because most of the makers don't talk much about their stress relieving process, which is probably (in my mind at least) the most important factor in the CHF process. Now I'll admit that im really unsure if CHFing makes a difference AT ALL when you chrome line it. I mean the Chrome is what is wearing down, not the barrel itself. So does the CHFing's process benefits even become a factor in a chromelined barrel? Not sure. One thing that is pretty obvious to me, with the cost of ammo, the stress relieving factors, and the high round count needed to shoot out a standard barrel - or even a stainless barrel... CHFing just doesn't seem like it is worth the upcharge. At all. If you can afford to shoot the 20K rounds or so to shoot out a standard barrel youd be better off buying a Noveske SS barrel and replacing it when needed. You'll get more accuracy and thus better training. If you can't afford to shoot out the barrel, then what is the extra barrel strength good for in the first place? Buy a nice SS barrel and enjoy the benefits of the better accuracy and don't worry about it. Either way CHFed barrels don't seem like the best choice when we have so many other options. |
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Posted: 8/18/2011 4:00:01 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It's the cheapest/quickest way to make a whole crap load of barrels quickly. I am still amazed at how sucessfully it was used as a marketing excercise for AR15s. Guns have been made for several decades with hammer forged barrels Steyr CZ HK Ruger (some what recent) Sako/Tikka FN Winchester (since the 60s apparently) etc. etc. Hammer forging is not the way to make the most accurate barrel. It is a good process for producing a high quality barrel quickly. I wouldn't worry about it. A quality barrel is a quality barrel no matter what the process. And yes, I do believe the barrel on that upper is also hammer forged. +1 to everything said. I never understood it either. They put hammer forged in the title, and jack the price up $100 AK's are also hammer forged, and that's why they last almost forever w/ 10's of thousands of rounds through them on F/A What is you guys background? I have heard the oppisite. Any data or links to back up your claims? My background is a former Benchrest shooter, both LV and Hunter Class with some 1k stuff mixed in here and there. I can tell you the most accurate custom barrels arent hammer forged. Atleast not back in my heyday. McMillan, Shilen, Hart and a half dozen others would cut or button pull the rifling, handlap them then gauge them with air. Then sort and grade. The common theory at the time was hammer forging induced stress on the steel at the molecular level that would never come out of it. |
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Posted: 8/18/2011 4:02:55 PM EDT
[#19]
It was the top link where I read before about the MG42 barrel development.
but note this... Hammered barrels have never achieved much favour in target shooting. Whilst their proponents laud the virtues of the mirror finish of the bore and its work hardened surface, which gives long life, the barrels tend to be very variable in the uniformity of their dimensions down their length. but all that was before chrome lining
no steel is going to last like a chrome lining,even if its hammer forged ETA: the last two comments seem to be along line of my question....What is gained?? |
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Posted: 8/18/2011 4:19:41 PM EDT
[#20]
this is a exerpt from Stickmans review of theNoveske N4 Light. I am no expert or a bench shooter and i cannot afford to test every rifle on the market therefore i usually take the advice of experts in the field of barrels and firearms.
In talking with John I discovered that there is more to the “cold hammer forged” label than the idea that the barrel was literally hammered into shape over a mandrel under massive pressure from hydraulic hammers. These barrels are the only ones currently made for an AR15/ M16 in the United States. Additionally, they are made to the M249 TDP specs in both process and materials. A friend who was the NCOIC for the Desert Warfare training center told me that M249 barrels used for training would go up to 40,000 rounds of full auto fire. Granted, these barrels were utterly trashed at that point, but 40,000 rounds of belt fed short and long bursts heat up a barrel a lot more than I’m able to do, even running off a full auto lower. 40k rds of full auto fire. outstanding. |
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Posted: 8/18/2011 4:22:18 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's the cheapest/quickest way to make a whole crap load of barrels quickly. I am still amazed at how sucessfully it was used as a marketing excercise for AR15s. Guns have been made for several decades with hammer forged barrels Steyr CZ HK Ruger (some what recent) Sako/Tikka FN Winchester (since the 60s apparently) etc. etc. Hammer forging is not the way to make the most accurate barrel. It is a good process for producing a high quality barrel quickly. I wouldn't worry about it. A quality barrel is a quality barrel no matter what the process. And yes, I do believe the barrel on that upper is also hammer forged. +1 to everything said. I never understood it either. They put hammer forged in the title, and jack the price up $100
AK's are also hammer forged, and that's why they last almost forever w/ 10's of thousands of rounds through them on F/A Not really, thats more a product of the lower pressure and slower velocity. |
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Posted: 8/18/2011 4:40:35 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's the cheapest/quickest way to make a whole crap load of barrels quickly. I am still amazed at how sucessfully it was used as a marketing excercise for AR15s. Guns have been made for several decades with hammer forged barrels Steyr CZ HK Ruger (some what recent) Sako/Tikka FN Winchester (since the 60s apparently) etc. etc. Hammer forging is not the way to make the most accurate barrel. It is a good process for producing a high quality barrel quickly. I wouldn't worry about it. A quality barrel is a quality barrel no matter what the process. And yes, I do believe the barrel on that upper is also hammer forged. +1 to everything said. I never understood it either. They put hammer forged in the title, and jack the price up $100
AK's are also hammer forged, and that's why they last almost forever w/ 10's of thousands of rounds through them on F/A Not really, thats more a product of the lower pressure and slower velocity. True, my bad. |
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Posted: 8/18/2011 5:01:13 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
My mistake the upper i guess is hammer forged the barrel is stainless steel FN marked at Palmetto state armory, wondering which is better a stainless barrel or a chrome lined and if there is any qualities that make one better than the other? Better in what context? There are tradeoffs for everything. |
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Posted: 8/18/2011 5:39:43 PM EDT
[#24]
Chrome out last stainless 2:1, Melonite treated barrels have been tested against chrome and out lasted them by 30%.
CHF raw?., CHF chromed? CHF Melonited? don't know how they compare in life but they sure haven't been as accurate in our experience. |
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Posted: 8/18/2011 5:50:31 PM EDT
[#25]
I remember last year at shot show, Daniel Defense had a CHF barrel and a regular DD chrome lined barrel cut down the middle, the chamber on the CHF barrel was way smoother and consistent,
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Posted: 8/18/2011 6:08:35 PM EDT
[#26]
If shot peening a bolt makes it stronger, why wouldn't a CHF barrel have the same end result?
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Posted: 8/18/2011 6:47:48 PM EDT
[#27]
You do realize the point of shot peening is not to increase strength, but rather has to do with fatigue.
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Posted: 8/18/2011 7:19:12 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
I remember last year at shot show, Daniel Defense had a CHF barrel and a regular DD chrome lined barrel cut down the middle, the chamber on the CHF barrel was way smoother and consistent, I do remeber reading that CHF'ing has the ability to produce a smoother bore, but that is assuming that the guy running it is an artist and knows what he is doing. This also does not address the issue of the stress relief. And while I personally am a huge fan of DD and their products (even if i don't actually use any of them anymore) you have to consider that any manufacturer is going to cherry pick their samples for a display like that. 1 smoother bore compared to a rough cut one for a display at a trade show where they are purposely trying to look good doesn't speak for every single one that goes down the line. That brings up another good point whenever people compare barrels... its a hard thing to do to compare barrels unless you are actually comparing two individual barrels themselves.. you can't say every single DD CHF barrel will shoot 2.347 MOA and every BCM CHF barrel will shoot 1.744 MOA so every BCM barrel will be better. It doesn't work like that. (Bryan I know you know this, im just thinking out loud here) It makes me shake my head whenever I hear people being like "should i buy a spikes, DD, or BCM barrel? which will be more accurate? which will be stronger?" Its a case by case basis and no comparison of type barrels really can be given unless you go out and shoot the two barrels in question through a machine rest, through the exact same rigs, using the exact same torque, under the exact same conditions. end of shaking head rant 
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Posted: 8/18/2011 7:45:15 PM EDT
[#29]
I suspect the operator's skill has zero to do with a HF barrel's quality. Bore a hole, insert a mandrel (reverse image of the rifled barrel), dial a contour into the hammering machine, and turn it on. One minute later out comes a barrel and with some of the newer machines, already chambered. Lather, rinse, repeat. The first barrels look pretty good. As the process continues, the mandrel wears somewhat, and if it wears too much before maintenance, the following barrels are not so good. You will get a worn mandrel from time to time buying HF barrels...
Boots Obermeyer wrote an article some years ago describing scaling as the main problem with cold hammer forged barrels, but I suspect the marketers don't talk much about that. HF barrels are a cheap way to produce a lot of reasonable barrels fast from a very expensive forging machine. Target shooters don't use them, not because they can't be good, but because there's no good way to predict their quality. (You can't be sure with cut- or button-rifled, either, but you have a better chance.) If that's what's available, I'll take it, but I'd never buy a marketer his vacation home by paying extra for it. |
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Posted: 8/18/2011 7:57:59 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
I suspect the operator's skill has zero to do with a HF barrel's quality. Bore a hole, insert a mandrel (reverse image of the rifled barrel), dial a contour into the hammering machine, and turn it on. One minute later out comes a barrel and with some of the newer machines, already chambered. Lather, rinse, repeat. The first barrels look pretty good. As the process continues, the mandrel wears somewhat, and if it wears too much before maintenance, the following barrels are not so good. You will get a worn mandrel from time to time buying HF barrels... Boots Obermeyer wrote an article some years ago describing scaling as the main problem with cold hammer forged barrels, but I suspect the marketers don't talk much about that. HF barrels are a cheap way to produce a lot of reasonable barrels fast from a very expensive forging machine. Target shooters don't use them, not because they can't be good, but because there's no good way to predict their quality. (You can't be sure with cut- or button-rifled, either, but you have a better chance.) If that's what's available, I'll take it, but I'd never buy a marketer his vacation home by paying extra for it. You are right... now that i recall the article was saying something about being able to taper the bore if the operator was skilled i think... wasn't anything to do with the smoothness of the bore. It was probably one of those articles that was posted earlier.. i did find it from a google search. ETA... i can't find the article i read.. so disregard that statement as unsubstantiated |
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Posted: 8/18/2011 8:21:38 PM EDT
[#31]
This is a very interesting topic and this thread is full of unsupported opinion including my own, that being said. Is it a true statement that almost all Sniper rifle barrels are hammer forged?
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Posted: 8/19/2011 3:22:38 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: This is a very interesting topic and this thread is full of unsupported opinion including my own, that being said. Is it a true statement that almost all Sniper rifle barrels are hammer forged? I would figure the M24 Bolt guns made by Remington come with a 40X barrel so button rifled. Weird how Remington uses the cheap old button on 40X barrels, but hammer forges the SPS. |
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Posted: 8/19/2011 6:24:26 AM EDT
[#33]
Cheaper in the long run or not, and at the risk of over simplifying things, if it's good enough and desirable for an M249 barrel, I'm glad to have one. After shooting AK's and such for a long time,
even a not-very accurate AR is more than accurate enough for killing things in carbine range, and then some. To me anyway. I'm much more interested in longevity and durability on this particular platform. That's what got me interested in CHF barrels. |
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Posted: 8/19/2011 6:50:18 AM EDT
[#34]
I found that button rifled M4 barrels from BFI and LMT were 0.3 to 0.6 MOA more accurate (max spread) than my hammer forged barrel from DD (as far as atc groups, the difference was between 0.19 and 0.12 MOA). The only other hammer forged barrel I have (other than bolt actions) is a SIG 556, and it's accuracy was almost identical to the DD M4. FWIW.
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Posted: 8/19/2011 7:15:05 AM EDT
[#35]
Again, there's nothing wrong with a HF barrel - it's just that there's nothing particularly right about them to make it worth my money to pay extra for them. IMO, if you're looking for an edge in a HF barrel, buy a less popular bore size (like .264, or .257) - in some cases the mandrel has been used less than for .308 and .223 sizes and might therefore be in better shape. Possibly. The most incredibly accurate factory hunting rifle I ever bought was a Ruger M77 MkII in 6.5x55.
One possible advantage of HF is the bore surface might be work-hardened and might last longer. I'm not experienced enough with high round count barrels to know if that's a real advantage in ARs, though. IIRC, Pat_Rogers somewhere on this forum says he changes (or rebuilds?) uppers after 10,000 rounds, and all types of barrels go that far, as far as I know. If I were going to buy a long-life barrel, however, I'd buy cut-rifling. durabo, I would imagine the only skill needed for a tapered bore would be inserting a tapered mandrel into the blank borehole. These things happen so quickly they don't have time to get much attention. |
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Posted: 8/19/2011 7:24:44 AM EDT
[#36]
Shilen, Douglas, and Lilja button-rifle their barrels and are reputed to be some of the most accurate barrels available. Krieger, also known for accuracy, uses cut rifling.
The point is that if I was heading off to Camp Perry, I doubt I'd want a CHF barrel on my rifle AR or bolt gun. Mark LaRue has stated they have plans to offer CHF barrels either. From the archived post: Nope, our barrels are not hammer forged and no, we have no plans to offer them.
Most folks know we partner with Lothar-Walther for our rifled tube products. They provide us with uncompleted barrels and we then do the finish machining to our in-house numbers / dimensions. Bottom line, we want button-rifled and Lothar-Walther excels at button-rifling. Cut rifling would also work for us, but we need lots of barrels and frankly, cut rifling has cycle-time issues (it's the antithesis of quick). -M. LaRue I don't treat my ARs like SAWs, so I don't know if I would realize the alleged benefits of hammer forging. For the price, if/when I wear the barrel out, I'll just replace it, and that would take a ton of ammo. As a civi that puts 5k-10k rounds per year (total) through four ARs, CHF isn't for me. If I was an armorer in charge of hundreds of rifles that saw thousands of rounds through them per month, I'd look more closely at CHF barrels. |
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Posted: 8/19/2011 8:24:48 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
what good is it,if a barrel is chrome lined? I'm sorry but I'm not I sure I understand what you are asking? Are you asking what good is chrome lining in general or are you asking what good is hammer forging if the barrel is then chrome lined? If the former, all I will say is look it up. Chrome lining has many well documented benefits which I don't feel like repeating. If you are asking about CL as it relates to HF barrels well then it depends on what aspect(s) you're focusing on? Most of the benefits of CL'ing apply regardless of how the barrel made. From an accuracy perspective, no one has ever been able to prove that CL'ing a bore decreases accuracy so I see no issue or conflict there. My guess is you were referring to the fact that both Chrome Lining and Hammer Forging are both said to increase barrel life. Well in that sense I guess you could say they are redundant but that's fine with me, I like redundancy!
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Posted: 8/19/2011 10:31:26 AM EDT
[#38]
If given the choice I'd rather have CHF then traditional barrels but I do own both. I feel that both can have their inconsistencies. I had a traditional barreled AR that had such a rough chamber that the brass would get stuck in it. I had to send in the upper for a new barrel. IMHO, you are more likely to get a good barrel the first time around by going CHF but I don't think its worth an extra $100. My one upper with a DD CHF barrel was within $20 of a standard upper so I figured the extra $20 was worth it.
If your looking for sub-MOA accuracy you probably should get a non-CHF stainless barrel from a reputable maker. |
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Posted: 8/19/2011 10:59:19 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's the cheapest/quickest way to make a whole crap load of barrels quickly. I am still amazed at how sucessfully it was used as a marketing excercise for AR15s. Guns have been made for several decades with hammer forged barrels Steyr CZ HK Ruger (some what recent) Sako/Tikka FN Winchester (since the 60s apparently) etc. etc. Hammer forging is not the way to make the most accurate barrel. It is a good process for producing a high quality barrel quickly. I wouldn't worry about it. A quality barrel is a quality barrel no matter what the process. And yes, I do believe the barrel on that upper is also hammer forged. +1 to everything said. I never understood it either. They put hammer forged in the title, and jack the price up $100
AK's are also hammer forged, and that's why they last almost forever w/ 10's of thousands of rounds through them on F/A What is you guys background? I have heard the oppisite. Any data or links to back up your claims? My background is a former Benchrest shooter, both LV and Hunter Class with some 1k stuff mixed in here and there. I can tell you the most accurate custom barrels arent hammer forged. Atleast not back in my heyday. McMillan, Shilen, Hart and a half dozen others would cut or button pull the rifling, handlap them then gauge them with air. Then sort and grade. The common theory at the time was hammer forging induced stress on the steel at the molecular level that would never come out of it. +1 OP: if you still have doubts, go visit the snipers forums eg snipershide, see what kind of barrel they use in their long range sniper rifles. |
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Posted: 8/19/2011 12:03:46 PM EDT
[#40]
i have a noveske chf barrel. to be honest i cant tell the difference between it and my colt barrel. will it last longer? whos to say. if i shoot out either one of them i will be surprised.
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Posted: 8/19/2011 1:29:35 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
ok i really don't like to get into these topics about barrel types... because for the most part a quick google will be able to give you much more information than most of the hearsay and misinformation that usually winds up in these threads. but ill say this much. CHFing is a quick and easy process for manufacturing many many barrels very cheaply. A CHF costs ALOT of money. Think milllions. This is one of the reasons there aren't many of them around in America. Some speculate that the initial setup investment is one of the reasons for the upcharge. The CHF process induces ALOT of stress in the barrel. This stress must be relieved. One of the reasons I don't personally like CHF'ed barrels is because most of the makers don't talk much about their stress relieving process, which is probably (in my mind at least) the most important factor in the CHF process. Now I'll admit that im really unsure if CHFing makes a difference AT ALL when you chrome line it. I mean the Chrome is what is wearing down, not the barrel itself. So does the CHFing's process benefits even become a factor in a chromelined barrel? Not sure. One thing that is pretty obvious to me, with the cost of ammo, the stress relieving factors, and the high round count needed to shoot out a standard barrel - or even a stainless barrel... CHFing just doesn't seem like it is worth the upcharge. At all. If you can afford to shoot the 20K rounds or so to shoot out a standard barrel youd be better off buying a Noveske SS barrel and replacing it when needed. You'll get more accuracy and thus better training. If you can't afford to shoot out the barrel, then what is the extra barrel strength good for in the first place? Buy a nice SS barrel and enjoy the benefits of the better accuracy and don't worry about it. Either way CHFed barrels don't seem like the best choice when we have so many other options. good post! |
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Posted: 8/19/2011 1:35:20 PM EDT
[#42]
I always assumed Colt used Hammer-forged Barrels. Is that not the case? It's hard to imagine them doing that many barrels by button- or cut-rifling. Maybe the institutional clients they sell to are less likely to be impressed by it so they don't mention it, but I don't know.
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Posted: 8/19/2011 2:46:26 PM EDT
[#43]
Never heard of Colt using it, but FN seems to favor, quite possibly from there European roots, H$K and others have been CHF for a long while.
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Posted: 8/20/2011 4:54:38 AM EDT
[#44]
BossMaverick: I had a traditional barreled AR that had such a rough chamber that the brass would get stuck in it. Isn't that more likely to be a problem caused by the guy who reamed the chamber than a problem with the barrel, however it was made? Most barrels are chambered later by different people, though possibly in the same company.
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Posted: 8/20/2011 5:31:53 AM EDT
[#45]
I got an ad from PSA (palmetto state armory) introducing a limited edition complete upper that comes with a 20" FN manufactured stainless steel hammer forged barrel, flat top upper receiver, Midwest Industries quad rail, low profile gas block, and a premium BCG with a bolt that's shot peened HP and MP tested for $599.
Is this what you were looking for? |
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Posted: 8/20/2011 6:26:49 AM EDT
[#46]
Is it a true statement that almost all Sniper rifle barrels are hammer forged?
My Steyr SSG-P2 sniper rifle is hammer forged. Barrel is a work of art and most accurate. my .02 |
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Posted: 8/20/2011 12:36:21 PM EDT
[#47]
Well today I had my BCM 14.5'' with the hammer forged barrel and BCM SS 16'' at the range. I was shooting Black Hills and was able to get the best group I've ever shot with the 14.5 CHF and my aimpoint. My SS BCM has a SS1-4 and I couldn't believe it was being outshot even with a magnified optic on it. Was using the same ammo (62gn TSX), same triggers and a lead sled.
While the SS barrel stil shot fantastic, maybe I need to step up to something a little heavier. |
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Posted: 8/21/2011 8:10:56 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Quoted:
what good is it,if a barrel is chrome lined? I'm sorry but I'm not I sure I understand what you are asking? Are you asking what good is chrome lining in general or are you asking what good is hammer forging if the barrel is then chrome lined? If the former, all I will say is look it up. Chrome lining has many well documented benefits which I don't feel like repeating. If you are asking about CL as it relates to HF barrels well then it depends on what aspect(s) you're focusing on? Most of the benefits of CL'ing apply regardless of how the barrel made. From an accuracy perspective, no one has ever been able to prove that CL'ing a bore decreases accuracy so I see no issue or conflict there. My guess is you were referring to the fact that both Chrome Lining and Hammer Forging are both said to increase barrel life. Well in that sense I guess you could say they are redundant but that's fine with me, I like redundancy! the links posted on the first page were from expert barrel builders. excerpt from the link- [Hammered barrels have never achieved much favour in target shooting. Whilst their proponents laud the virtues of the mirror finish of the bore and its work hardened surface, which gives long life, the barrels tend to be very variable in the uniformity of their dimensions down their length.] heres my other comment,you might have missed "but all that was before chrome lining no steel is going to last like a chrome lining,even if its hammer forged." my whole point is the germans made it for longevity,in a MG42,that seen major abuse.like mention,whom many are going to treat their weapon like aM249? If its chrome lined ,then why do you need hammer forged? let me also add that what you said in red is fine,as long as it did not cost accuracy loss. which has me wondering,if technology has changed...where now the tolerances on HF barrels are better. thus,what the expert barrel builder stated no longer holds true? hard to believe that the process,would not still have variances,like before. |
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