wow dude  i wish I could state things as well as you

man are you serious?

1st. upper lower fit doesnt mean jack shit, its proven
2. colt has made over 10 million AR15s in use  in over 90 countries militaries not counting LEO,     can RRA make that claim? They have the longest serving  military rifle an every AR15 you touch is reverse copied from a colt. also every colt has 3 different QC inspectors look them over on a 109 point inspection,  RRA cant even  stake a  Key right half the time
3.  the triggers being the best?   thats delusional
4. the DEA contract is not  impressive  since you didnt mention colt also got a large contract from them and  LWRC
5. they dont even make their barrels

do I need to go on?

RRA makes good target and varmint guns,  that are really pretty.  but they are not on the level of  BCM. Colt, DD etc
you need to learn more and stop making post like that

Thanks.  Just tired of people trying to justify the poor buying decisions they make.  Between here and TOS there is more than enough information to make an educated purchase, yet people still pay premium prices for poor to mediocre carbines then try to shill the crap they bought as "just as good as".  If you wanted something "just as good as" a Colt or a DD or Noveske, then why did you pay nearly the same price or more for something that clearly wasn't?  Either because you did not research your options and do some price comparison, or you bought on impulse because some salesman at a fun store convinced you that they don't carry "quality brand X" because the "Poor Excuse model of brand Y" is "just as good as".

I could understand if the lower quality carbines were priced accordingly then there would  be an understandable benefit to buying them.  But when their bottom end material exceeds the price of a truly good value like a Spike's or PSA and their top end goods are commonly priced the same or significantly higher than a top quality carbine I just don't understand why anyone would buy one.

It's usually a matter of buy first, then read about what you bought.  The more dedicated and technical (read: smart)
among us might make that mistake once, at least with firearms.  Especially in this day and age.  I can remember reading
magazines and trusting whoever I could find locally to yak with about stuff to find out what was what.  There is a world more information
available about damn near anything these days, essentially for free.  It's really amazing if you are old enough to remember
when it wasn't so.

i agree somewhat with what your saying except when you mention DPMS, bushmaster. RRA is a much better rifle. im not bashing those middle end rifles but i give RRA a few steps ahead of them. i dont like when people put RRA in the same league with DPMS and bushy cause its a little better. and alot better then PSA what have they proved except being the flavor of the month on here.

+1

Well, for starters, PSA is priced accordingly, as an upstart.  We can then follow this up with PSA uses Wilson Arms barrels, the same as RRA, but does not make you pay extra for chrome lined bore and chamber, plus they are 1:7 twist vs most of RRAs offerings of 1:9, additionally, most of the PSA Wilson Arms barrels are 4150 steel not 4140 like RRA.  PSA also offers the option of a superior barrel in their CHF CL barrels made by FN for only $100 extra and it is still at a lower price than RRA offerings.  PSA BCGs have M-16 bolt carriers, are chrome lined, properly staked, shot peened, MPI and HPT and made from Carpenter 158 steel.  RRA BCGs are SA, chrome lined is an option and they are not HPT tested (batch MPI without HPT is worthless).  PSA uppers have M4 feed ramps, RRA uppers don't.  RRA upper and lower fit is too damn tight to take down without tools (like you're supposed to be able to do, you know, in the field...) PSA's aren't.  RRA's basic carbine kit minus stripped lower is $200 more than PSA's carbine kit minus stripped lower and has lesser quality parts.  All this and RRA tells you up front on their website that you will have to wait 60-90 days for the luxury of obtaining one of their rifles, kits or complete uppers.  Hmmm, PSA is smaller, does pretty high volume and only takes about 5-10 days, plus their site only allows you to order what is in stock.  So, tell me again how much better RRA is and how the quality of materials or processes differs from DPMS or Bushmaster?

ETA:

Look, if you already have an RRA, DPMS, Bushmaster or whatever lower end carbine and it goes bang when you pull the trigger, then fine, go shoot the piss out of it.  But stop with the "just as good as" crap.

With prices where they are now, and the available options on the low end and high end, you should not be able to tell anybody in good conscience that any RRA, DPMS, Bushmaster, Del-Ton, Model 1 Sales or any other low end AR is "just as good as".  How can you recommend an RRA for $850-1200 street price when you know they can get a Colt SP6920 for ~$1050 or a DDM4V3/5 or 7 for ~$1150.  How can you even recommend an entry level RRA CAR A4 when there are several options that are superior for >$200-300 less?

My problem does not really fall on the low end carbines themselves or the fact that people who own them like them.  What I find fault with is the delusional pricing and the "just as good as" crap that is perpetuated.

If these carbines were priced according to the competition, based on quality of materials, processes and QC, then it would be fine to say "I got my _____ because it was half the price of a Colt and all I'm going to do is punch paper at the range."  But even that will be hard to do with the likes of Spike's and PSA around.

What I'd really like to see is these companies step up and improve the quality of their products, both in terms of materials and testing/QC.  We know that won't happen though, because it would cut into their FAT profit margins.

Never mind, there are enough "sheeple" to keep these guys in booming business.

the reason RRA is so exspensive is because you get what you pay for. (why would they sell there product as much has colt if it wasnt on the same level, that would make them look dumb)  also all that stuff about psa means nothing if its not proven. its the flavor of the month on here because you can build a rifle with there parts for cheap, tell me anyone who has put 5000 rds through one on here , it has a long way to prove what RRA has did for many yrs and will continue doing. i wish RRA would come on here and explain why they been doing it right for so long, and there name stands good to thousands of people who own them.

Yeah,probably just a little off.

No you don't, and it does make them look dumb.

I've hot about 200rds through my Colt Sporter with zero problems.
My Del-Ton has about 300rds of brass and about 600rds of russian white box with ZERO malfs and minimal cleaning.

At what round count does a particular rifle begin to look 'used'?





1k?  3K?? 7K???
Oh and at what round count should one expect their non-milspec AR to fail since so many here seem to know the magic number and furthermore if you are a milspec AR owner how many more rounds do you get typically before yours fails?
 

Yes, yes it does.  I'm sure it's very profitable too.  A fool and his money are soon parted.


You really ought to address some of the technical disparity ac130usnsr has lined out for you.  Just saying "it's expensive, they sell a lot, it has to be good"
does_not_cut_it.  I even went and looked on there site and they don't say shit about anything, I wouldn't buy one JUST because they don't give any detail about the product.
Usually that means they have something to hide, or aren't smart enough to know that some things matter, or are marketing to people that don't know any better.
All those words and numbers ac130usnsr listed aren't just gibberish, they aren't something other manufacturers made up to sell stuff, they are important for a reason.

I too have nothing agenst a lower end AR, like DSA, who is very up front about what there product is and isn't.  Notice they volunteered there info for "the chart",
even though frankly it makes them look bad.  And who has yet to respond?  RRA, and a very few others that aren't going to show well on there.  Surprise surprise.

I've had a number of old mil-surp guns that were carried a lot and looked like hell, but had pristine bores.  It happens.  So does the opposite I imagine.

As to replacement intervals for parts, which is an experience-borne indicator of average part life (when the part is made correctly), there are round counts listed around, there's a really good sticky post
on m4c about it.  It's a lot of rounds, I think 10K is the first big maintenance one with some lesser stuff in-between depending on use.  Most people will never shoot a quarter of that, and it's part of why cheap AR's for civilians are OK.  If they are cheap.

I don't hate DPMS. I've shot a number of their guns. They all go bang when I pull the trigger.

I've owned several DPMS rifles over the years. Currently have only rifles I've built myself with ARFCOM approved 'tier 1' components.
I guess I've been lucky but out of the countless thousands of rounds I've shot I have only had ONE malfunction and that was due to a hard primer with a round of Silver Bear ammo.
It wasn't in a DPMS either.


 

To add to that, I am tired of people throwing Tapco and Leapers (UTG) shit on their guns and saying it is just as good as higher quality components.  If you want to be a tightwad and skimp on your gun, fine, but don't try to pass it off as just as good.

Always wondered that myself.



Edit: But you've got to add in the time factor I suppose. How many rounds in what time span?

Some people just don't want to hear it.

I wrote a thread a few months ago talking about my experience as a shooter for BAE doing engineer and QC shooting for thermal weapon sight projects. I didn't want to go into a ton of detail about the job itself because I was still working at the company.

I contrasted my experiences with using LMT and Bushmaster. I provided round counts, maintenance schedules, malfunction information, and the differences in performance between the 2 brands. My point was not to blast bushmaster, but to point out that when it comes to ARs, there isn't a "just as god as", as our firing schedule couldn't be duplicated by the most affluent members on this board.

I took a ton of heat about that post. People accused me of shilling for LMT, or being a BM "hater" (mind you I own a BM upper/DPMS lower rifle, a Delton upper/CavArms lower rifle, and a DDM4). I was accused of being a troll and (after posting proof of my job) doctoring or stealing photos.

One thing I don't believe I touched on was that at one point early in that job we had a dozen or so DPMS "m4-style" uppers for backup. The sad fact is they never worked. If I remember the issue correctly, the chambers were reamed too tight to fire NATO 5.56.

Some people don't want to hear they spent their money on junk. Others assume that a company is the same as it was 15 years ago, when the industry as a whole, and the company more specifically have changed. It used to be ABCD, one of those 4 brands was all you really had. Now there are over 140 brands of ARs, with some of the best performing most high-level recommendations costing little more than the lower "tiered" brands. DPMS, BM, RRA, etc... are all $500 ARs in their basic form. If they cost what they should people would buy them b the bbl-full in order to stock up for the "coming apocalypse. " The fact is that when you can get a DD, Colt, or BCM for ~$900-1k, a Spikes or M&P for $800-900, why would you buy a similarly equipped RRA, BM, DPMS for $700-900?

If I was hunting or shooting service rifle I would look at RRA or BM, but for a high round count "fighting weapon" I would look elsewhere.

I have a DPMS KISS carbine that goes bang every time. It serves its purpose. It eats steel all day long, but it does have some minor drawbacks.

That being said, I'm looking to upgrade to a BCM or Spike's middy for increased quality. I don't trust the longetivity of the DPMS bcg. Heard too many horror stories. Middy > carbine on a 16" barrel anyway.

Wow, you just don't get it.  My point is, that with RRA, DPMS, Bushmaster, etc. YOU DON"T GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!  You can shill them all day long, but in the end they all use substandard materials, manufacturing, testing and QC practices to deliver a product that "looks the same" and they similarly price it or price $50 less then a true quality carbine and all of the "sheeple" start baaaaaa-ing about how it "looks  the same", "it's the same price", "it must be just as good as".

As a consumer, I would imagine that you would be pissed off that these companies have the business models they do.  I know if I unknowingly bought one of these carbines without doing any research and then started looking for info after I bought it, I'd be pissed that that company took me and I got low end when I paid a premium price and that the difference went in the pockets of the company's stock holders (or owners).  Think about it, Colt and Daniel Defense make a profit using materials that cost more, using manufacturing, testing and QC practices that cost more, yet their products do not cost much if any more than these low end carbines.  That can only mean one thing, the low end guys are lining their pockets at the expense of the "sheeple".

No you dont, the reason they charge so much is because people like you continue to pay it

No, it makes the buyer look dumb for not doing there homework before buying

That's just it, it is proven "requires reading"

From PSA's website


I am glad you are happy with your RRA carbine, and there is nothing wrong with owning a RRA, Bushmaster, DPMS, ect.  But dont come in here trying to tell people that obviously know there stuff what is good and what is not with your "If its expensive, it must be good" ignorant philosophy, because you are wrong... deal with it.

I go with what has a proven, lengthy track record. See which has been battle tested. See which holds up in a carbine class.
You can have 10,000 rounds down an AR that never malfunctions shooting 5 rounds once a week.
How will that same carbine hold up shooting 1500 rounds in a day?
That is where tested, quality parts, and a proven rcord come into play.
Dave N

So considering the rifle doesn't 'know' if you are in a class or not, how many rounds does one have to shoot in a day for a non-milspec AR to pass your litmus test?



Is the magic number 750? 1000?? 1200?? 1500???



 

1123 to be exact.

the guy may be bullshitting about the rd ct. but this is a true statement. i have 3k thru my stag and theres no brass mark on my deflector.

dead on