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Posted: 7/30/2011 10:52:58 AM EST
Planning on ordering a 14.5 with A2X(legal 16" OA) upper from Bravo Company in a few days.
Is the cold hammer forged barrel worth the $90 over the standard barrel option? I'm thinking it
is. Can anyone enlighten me?

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Posted: 7/30/2011 11:07:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/30/2011 11:07:53 AM EST by mathecb]
I'd save the $90 and put it towards something useful. There is not enough difference, if any at all, to spend $90 extra.
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Posted: 7/30/2011 11:33:54 AM EST
If hardcore use- lots of firing, running hot, lots of training,,,,,,,,go for the more expensive barrel.

If not so hardcore, get the less expensive barrel.
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Posted: 7/30/2011 11:38:08 AM EST
read this.


only reason i got a BFH was because it was in stock and the standard lightweight wasn't.
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Posted: 7/30/2011 12:20:33 PM EST
I've been more than happy with my BCM standard barrels.
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Posted: 7/30/2011 1:27:30 PM EST
You'll never likely see or notice the difference. But this is the case with many of the things we pay extra for. For this upgrade choice, I went with with BFH because I knew that for the $90 I'd appreciate the gun more. So, knowing that I'll never likely realize the difference in quality, it still pleases me that it's hammer forged.

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Posted: 7/30/2011 1:38:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By mathecb:
I'd save the $90 and put it towards something useful. There is not enough difference, if any at all, to spend $90 extra.


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Posted: 7/30/2011 1:57:07 PM EST
Save Money, grab a standard. Thats what I did! There is nothing you are going to do to tell the difference.
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Posted: 7/30/2011 2:10:59 PM EST
OK, this is kinda what I wanted to hear. I'm probably gonna go with the standard.
I doubt mine will ever see any hard use. I don't mind spending the extra money, but
only if it was really worth it.

Thanks for the replies!!
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Posted: 7/30/2011 5:34:34 PM EST
If you have the money get the BFH
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Posted: 7/30/2011 5:44:23 PM EST
Why do some of you guys say to go with the BFH barrel? Any particular reason?
Just wondering.

Thanks!
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Posted: 7/30/2011 7:11:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/30/2011 7:14:13 PM EST by hotbiggun42]
I buy the BHF for Longevity or extended barrel life. For a few extra dollars the question is why do some of you guy not go with BFH barrels?

EDIT: from BCM website

This process of manufacturing barrels has been used for European small arms for generations, and it is gaining popularity in the United States because of the increased barrel life and outstanding accuracy of a hammer forged barrel. The BCM BFH™ series of barrels are made right here in the USA! (Just like all the BCM products.)
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Posted: 7/30/2011 7:18:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
I buy the BHF for Longevity or extended barrel life. For a few extra dollars the question is why do some of you guy not go with BFH barrels?

EDIT: from BCM website

This process of manufacturing barrels has been used for European small arms for generations, and it is gaining popularity in the United States because of the increased barrel life and outstanding accuracy of a hammer forged barrel. The BCM BFH™ series of barrels are made right here in the USA! (Just like all the BCM products.)

how does a hammer forged barrel with the same chrome lining as the standard barrel have a longer life?
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Posted: 7/30/2011 7:23:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/30/2011 7:24:26 PM EST by hotbiggun42]
Thicker chromed lined barrels. I belive they are double the thickness of std barrels.
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Posted: 7/30/2011 7:24:37 PM EST
I actually wanted the standard barrel, I also intend to get a 14.5 carbine in the future simply because I think they look cool and I won't let the fact they are not hammer forged stop me. As a newb lurker I did a lot of research before I bought my middy 16 bcm. Like most everyone else I saw the filthy 14 and what I got from that was the difference between actual combat and civilian competitive shooting, even hard shooting.

A civilian like myself simply will not see the difference. I also found it interesting to see people with 5 or 6 ARs worrying about barrel life, they are either filthy rich or kidding themselves. The answer is to buy what you would have fun shooting, anything else and you've just wasted your money.
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Posted: 7/30/2011 7:38:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Thicker chromed lined barrels. I belive they are double the thickness of std barrels.

The throat of the barrel is what is going to wear out first. You aren't going to shoot the rifling out of a non beltfed weapon. Extra thick chrome lining and hammer forged barrels are an unneeded expense. In fact, the main advantage of hammer forging is speed and consistency of production.
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Posted: 7/30/2011 7:41:00 PM EST
I used BCM BFH barrels on a couple builds where I had the extra money to spend. Only difference I've noticed is in my head to be honest. I'll never see the extra durability that the BFH offers probably. All the standard rifles i have perform identically. But being I'm switching between many rifles, only a couple see any hard use. Those happen to be standard uppers and are taking anything I've thrown at them so far. Unless you are using it on a full auto, I doubt you will notice a difference.
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Posted: 7/30/2011 7:53:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/30/2011 8:00:11 PM EST by hotbiggun42]
Hammer Forging - Hammer forged barrels are really very good barrels... a hard steel die, with the reverse rifling pattern in it, is placed in the drilled and reamed bore, then a machine that is best described as *big and noisey* literally hammers the barrel's outside surface, forcing the metal into the rifling pattern of the die.


Button Rifling - One of the most common methods, button rifling uses a hardened steel "button" that has the inverse rifling pattern in it... this button is pushed or pulled through the barrel blank and the rifling is essentially "ironed" into the insode of the bore. Button rifling is quick and can make a very nice finish –– the most noted pitfall to the method is that the button creates radial stress in the blank... the barrel must be properly stressed relieved before it is turned down, or the diameter of the bore can expand slightly.

Quoted from another Forum. I am not sure I can mention it here.

Personally I believe if BCM and Noveske claim a certain process makes a better barrel I tend to trust these claims these people are the experts. Whether you believe it is a marketing gimmick or truth it is up to you to decide.
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Posted: 7/30/2011 10:39:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/30/2011 10:47:55 PM EST by bud7h7]
Originally Posted By ARKAR:
OK, this is kinda what I wanted to hear. I'm probably gonna go with the standard.
I doubt mine will ever see any hard use. I don't mind spending the extra money, but
only if it was really worth it.

Thanks for the replies!!
ARKAR


Why would you need a CHF barrel for hard use? I'd say combat is pretty hard use, no CHF needed there. I think people mistake "standard" as somehow lesser quality. "Standard" doesn't refer to the quality, buttoned is simply the most widely used method in the USA, hence the term "standard" used by dealers. In Europe they probably refer to CHF as "standard" because that's by far the most common method used there.
You damn sure wouldn't need CHF for a hard use weapon.

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Posted: 7/31/2011 12:10:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By bud7h7:
Originally Posted By ARKAR:
OK, this is kinda what I wanted to hear. I'm probably gonna go with the standard.
I doubt mine will ever see any hard use. I don't mind spending the extra money, but
only if it was really worth it.

Thanks for the replies!!
ARKAR


Why would you need a CHF barrel for hard use? I'd say combat is pretty hard use, no CHF needed there. I think people mistake "standard" as somehow lesser quality. "Standard" doesn't refer to the quality, buttoned is simply the most widely used method in the USA, hence the term "standard" used by dealers. In Europe they probably refer to CHF as "standard" because that's by far the most common method used there.
You damn sure wouldn't need CHF for a hard use weapon.



Quote from Bravo Co. barrel description:

Cold Hammer Forged Barrels

"This process of manufacturing barrels has been used for European small arms for generations, and it is gaining popularity in the United States because of the increased barrel life and outstanding accuracy of a hammer forged barrel. The BCM BFH™ series of barrels are made right here in the USA!  (Just like all the BCM products.)"

You're right, a person does not need a BFH barrel for hard use and most would agree that standard barrels are not of lesser quality but theoretically they (BFH barrels) are supposed to last longer and be more durable than the barrels listed as "standard". So if ones definition of "hard use" is high round count then technically the BFH barrels should be better suited for that application.
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Posted: 7/31/2011 3:24:37 AM EST
Are the BFH barrels really more accurate?
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Posted: 7/31/2011 3:51:35 AM EST
Even BCM uses marketing. CHF barrels are nothing new. They are just another efficient way of producing rifled barrels. There is no measureable advantage to owning one over the other (other than ooo's and aahhh's in the picture threads).
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Posted: 7/31/2011 4:29:29 AM EST
Most shooters will not be able to discern the difference between the two barrel types. A standard barrel will serve you well for many years if not during your lifetime.
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Posted: 7/31/2011 5:01:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Thicker chromed lined barrels. I belive they are double the thickness of std barrels.

This is false. Hammer forging has ZERO to do with chroming.

While a hammer forged barrel MIGHT have a longer life than a button rifled barrel, in semi-auto fire, the difference will be difficult to see. Most Semi-auto barrels will last upwards of 20k rounds, and most likely longer and still retain 3-5MOA, which is more than enough for a defensive or hobby weapon.

If the Hammer forged is in stock, and you have the money, there isn't a reason not to get it. However, if the same model is in stock with button rifling, I wouldn't bother, personally.
There is way too much speculation going on lately. Shoot your rifle first. THEN, if there are problems call the manufacturer.
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Posted: 7/31/2011 5:02:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By spc71:
I actually wanted the standard barrel, I also intend to get a 14.5 carbine in the future simply because I think they look cool and I won't let the fact they are not hammer forged stop me. As a newb lurker I did a lot of research before I bought my middy 16 bcm. Like most everyone else I saw the filthy 14 and what I got from that was the difference between actual combat and civilian competitive shooting, even hard shooting.

A civilian like myself simply will not see the difference. I also found it interesting to see people with 5 or 6 ARs worrying about barrel life, they are either filthy rich or kidding themselves. The answer is to buy what you would have fun shooting, anything else and you've just wasted your money.


There is way too much speculation going on lately. Shoot your rifle first. THEN, if there are problems call the manufacturer.
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Posted: 7/31/2011 5:07:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/31/2011 5:10:58 AM EST by hotbiggun42]
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Hammer Forging - Hammer forged barrels are really very good barrels... a hard steel die, with the reverse rifling pattern in it, is placed in the drilled and reamed bore, then a machine that is best described as *big and noisey* literally hammers the barrel's outside surface, forcing the metal into the rifling pattern of the die.


Button Rifling - One of the most common methods, button rifling uses a hardened steel "button" that has the inverse rifling pattern in it... this button is pushed or pulled through the barrel blank and the rifling is essentially "ironed" into the insode of the bore. Button rifling is quick and can make a very nice finish –– the most noted pitfall to the method is that the button creates radial stress in the blank... the barrel must be properly stressed relieved before it is turned down, or the diameter of the bore can expand slightly.

Quoted from another Forum. I am not sure I can mention it here.

Personally I believe if BCM and Noveske claim a certain process makes a better barrel I tend to trust these claims these people are the experts. Whether you believe it is a marketing gimmick or truth it is up to you to decide.





Extra thick chromed lining is a claim BCM makes for their BFH barrels. If you have evidence to the contrary post it up here.
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Posted: 7/31/2011 5:09:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By PredatorWhacker:
Originally Posted By bud7h7:
Originally Posted By ARKAR:
OK, this is kinda what I wanted to hear. I'm probably gonna go with the standard.
I doubt mine will ever see any hard use. I don't mind spending the extra money, but
only if it was really worth it.

Thanks for the replies!!
ARKAR


Why would you need a CHF barrel for hard use? I'd say combat is pretty hard use, no CHF needed there. I think people mistake "standard" as somehow lesser quality. "Standard" doesn't refer to the quality, buttoned is simply the most widely used method in the USA, hence the term "standard" used by dealers. In Europe they probably refer to CHF as "standard" because that's by far the most common method used there.
You damn sure wouldn't need CHF for a hard use weapon.



Quote from Bravo Co. barrel description:

Cold Hammer Forged Barrels

"This process of manufacturing barrels has been used for European small arms for generations, and it is gaining popularity in the United States because of the increased barrel life and outstanding accuracy of a hammer forged barrel. The BCM BFH™ series of barrels are made right here in the USA! (Just like all the BCM products.)"

You're right, a person does not need a BFH barrel for hard use and most would agree that standard barrels are not of lesser quality but theoretically they (BFH barrels) are supposed to last longer and be more durable than the barrels listed as "standard". So if ones definition of "hard use" is high round count then technically the BFH barrels should be better suited for that application.

Hammer forging is a LESS EXPENSIVE way to manufacture a barrel, once the original machinery has been amortized. Do you think that all the eastern block country pumping out millions of AKs use hammer forging because it's better? Of course not, in the long term, it is significantly more economical to use a hammer forging process.

Hammer forging may make a better barrel, but unless you use it on an M16 lower, and handload ammo for accuracy (which would be silly to do if shooting from an M16, see where this is going?) the difference is negligible.

However, most people on ARFCOM recognize hammer forging as "superior" and resale on this site will be much easier and command a slight premium

There is way too much speculation going on lately. Shoot your rifle first. THEN, if there are problems call the manufacturer.
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Posted: 7/31/2011 9:29:09 AM EST
I had an HK USC that I was going to send to HDPS for the conversion to UMP-style configuration. I had
all the parts and decided to sell it and buy a Mk12 rifle instead. I purchased a UMP manual from Adam
Webber and in the manual on the first few pages was info about how HK makes their barrels. They are
cold hammer forged also. From what I got out of it, they are a little more accurate with some longer barrel
life, but best I can remember, they are also "safer". It told that in the case of a suib load(etc.), the cold
hammer forged barrels will not fragment but will split instead of fragmenting. Any truth to this?

I'm gonna opt for the standard barrel, I see no need in buying, in my case, the BFH barrel upper.

Thanks!!
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Posted: 7/31/2011 10:14:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Hammer Forging - Hammer forged barrels are really very good barrels... a hard steel die, with the reverse rifling pattern in it, is placed in the drilled and reamed bore, then a machine that is best described as *big and noisey* literally hammers the barrel's outside surface, forcing the metal into the rifling pattern of the die.


Button Rifling - One of the most common methods, button rifling uses a hardened steel "button" that has the inverse rifling pattern in it... this button is pushed or pulled through the barrel blank and the rifling is essentially "ironed" into the insode of the bore. Button rifling is quick and can make a very nice finish –– the most noted pitfall to the method is that the button creates radial stress in the blank... the barrel must be properly stressed relieved before it is turned down, or the diameter of the bore can expand slightly.

Quoted from another Forum. I am not sure I can mention it here.

Personally I believe if BCM and Noveske claim a certain process makes a better barrel I tend to trust these claims these people are the experts. Whether you believe it is a marketing gimmick or truth it is up to you to decide.





Extra thick chromed lining is a claim BCM makes for their BFH barrels. If you have evidence to the contrary post it up here.


This is what BCM mentions about the chrome lining on their barrels-nothing is mentioned about double thickness. That is what Noveske says about their own barrels.

Chrome Bore and Chamber
One of the first modifications that were made to the original M16 in the mid 1960’s was the addition of the chrome lined bore and chamber. It is now a world wide standard in the industry for a battle rifle. The chrome bore and chamber is harder than the barrel steel and on the USGI M16/M4 rifles will aid in chambering, extraction, and reliability. It increases velocity, and also resist against fouling and corrosion from extended use in the field. This gives the end user a longer barrel life with less required time in maintenance and cleaning.
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Posted: 7/31/2011 11:43:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/31/2011 11:45:03 AM EST by hotbiggun42]
looks like Spikes is doing the same!


From Spikes website

These barrels are made to the Mil-Spec for the M249 SAW. They are the correct Certified CMV material and they are also Hard Chrome lined to the M249 SAW Mil-Spec, which is almost 2X as thick as the Hard Chrome on a Mil-Spec M4.

These are good days for those infected with BRD
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Posted: 8/23/2011 5:25:18 AM EST
Save the dough and get the standard. The advantage of the CHF is cheaper manufacturing in the long run. When the price of the CHF drops to the price of the standard then it might be the way to go.
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Posted: 8/23/2011 6:02:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2011 6:42:46 AM EST by wulkyrie]
The following link is to 68forum, ARperformance subforum , on the topic of barrels. For those who are interested, it dispels many myths, fads, hyps, BS currently saturating the internet gun forums:

http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?22408-Barrels

add thread on chrome vs melonite
http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?6779-Chrome-VS-Nitride-barrels
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Posted: 8/23/2011 7:13:27 AM EST
I only got the BFH upper because I needed a 14.5" MId-Length and it was the only one they had in stock at the time.
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Posted: 8/23/2011 4:34:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2011 4:34:50 PM EST by ARKAR]
I opted for the standard. Got the upper in and I'm happy. Very impressed with the quality.

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Posted: 8/23/2011 4:46:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By UncivilEngineer:
read this.


only reason i got a BFH was because it was in stock and the standard lightweight wasn't.


Same reason I got mine.
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Posted: 8/23/2011 4:52:36 PM EST
get what makes you happy, if you got an extra 90$ to spend do it. i have one of each, a regular colt pencil barrel and a noveske chf barrel. i love em both equally
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