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Posted: 7/8/2011 12:02:13 PM EDT
[#1]
Oh boy, here we go
EDIT: This is straight from the FAQ at the top of the page. DPMS (Defense Procurement Manufacturing Systems) is a company which has been around for a while. They have a decent reputation with a few exceptions. One thing that comes up frequently is that their bolt seem to break at the cam hole pin more often than other brands. There is also an issue with their lower parts kits in that the trigger and hammer pins are oversized and can be a royal pain to install. A lot of companies use their lower parts kits to put together "whole rifle kits" which you can add your stripped receiver to, so if you are cursing your hammer/trigger pin because it won't go in it probably came from DPMS. Get out some fine sandpaper and chuck the pin in a drill and take a little off. DO NOT screw up your lower trying to hammer it in.
When you get a DPMS you get: BARREL: 4140, non MP inspected, chrome or non chrome lined barrels I am not sure about chambers I believe most have 1:9 twist, I am not sure about parkerizing under the FSB. They also offer many other calibers, I am told, including: .204 Ruger, .22LR, .223 Remington, 5.56x45mm, 7.62x39mm, 6.8x43mm SPC, .243 Winchester, .308 Winchester, .260 Remington and .300 Remington SAUM. BOLT/CARRIER: Non MP tested UPPER: Rifle style feed ramps (not M4), and I believe straight pins in the FSB RECEIVER EXTENSION: I believe commercial IMHO there are better quality rifles for a marginal increase in price, however it will go bang every time you pull the triger The parts in red are the things I have a problem with |
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Posted: 7/8/2011 12:10:57 PM EDT
[#2]
You probably not going to find a bunch of love for them here.
That said if your looking for a "budget" target rifle they should be considered. Just don't go paying msrp |
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Posted: 7/8/2011 2:23:14 PM EDT
[#3]
DPMS batch tests MP.....My ORC models are parked underneath....they DO have M4 ramps....chrome lining is available. I believe barrel steel across the board is 4140 except the SS line. I think you can also get 1x7 twist tubes from them, but not sure. I love all my DPMS parts and guns..CS when I have called or emailed has been great...YMMV of course.
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Posted: 7/8/2011 3:50:30 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
DPMS batch tests MP.....My ORC models are parked underneath....they DO have M4 ramps....chrome lining is available. I believe barrel steel across the board is 4140 except the SS line. I think you can also get 1x7 twist tubes from them, but not sure. I love all my DPMS parts and guns..CS when I have called or emailed has been great...YMMV of course. I use DPMS small parts on all my builds (gas tubes, roll pins, flash hiders, ect.) And have never had a problem with them, I have also used one of there LPK's which has give me no problems at all, I just do not advice using critical parts such as bolts from DPMS. IMO batch testing is not goot enough, since if they batch tested 10% that means 9 out of 10 rifles may have a faulty bolt. Bottom line is, if you are going to use your AR for HD/SHTF or in the line of duty I would reccomend getting something better, if you only intend to kill beer cans in your back yard, then DPMS is fine. Again this is my personal opinion and should be taken with a grain of salt. ETA: The FAQ does need to be updated, but the vast majority that I have seen have rifle ramps, and the older barrels did not have park under the FSB, I'm glad to see DPMS moving in the right direction. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 7/8/2011 3:55:29 PM EDT
[#5]
I learned what DPMS stands for.
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Posted: 7/8/2011 4:28:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Mine go bang and have not given me any problems
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Posted: 7/8/2011 4:51:23 PM EDT
[#7]
UPPER: Rifle style feed ramps (not M4), and I believe straight pins in the FSB
One thing that comes up frequently is that their bolt seem to break at the cam hole pin more often than other brands. There is also an issue with their lower parts kits in that the trigger and hammer pins are oversized and can be a royal pain to install. A lot of companies use their lower parts kits to put together "whole rifle kits" which you can add your stripped receiver to, so if you are cursing your hammer/trigger pin because it won't go in it probably came from DPMS. Get out some fine sandpaper and chuck the pin in a drill and take a little off. DO NOT screw up your lower trying to hammer it in.
Not accurate,. How old is that FAQ entry? |
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Posted: 7/8/2011 5:17:55 PM EDT
[#8]
My DPMS LR-308 runs like a champ with ANY ammo.. (762 chamber).. 1/10 Barrel & 762x51 Chamber..
My DPMS 5.56 Oracle did not like Wolf MC 223 ammo at all.. (granted the rifle was brand new when I tried it). it digest all the brass I have fed it thus far.. Federal AE 223.., PMC Xtac 55gr FMJ, PMC Bronze, PMC Xtac M855, and now SilverBear is working in it also.. (granted I have shot over 400 rounds of BRASS ammo.. before trying anymore steel cased ammo).. The DPMS 5.56 Oracle does have M4 feedramps and is 1/9 twist.. 
I usally shoot no less than 120 rounds with either rifle in a range session.. Tommorrow I will be doing 200 rounds in the 5.56 for some training drills.. I love mine 
Al |
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Posted: 7/8/2011 5:42:05 PM EDT
[#9]
...............
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Posted: 7/9/2011 6:30:24 AM EDT
[#10]
i'v been shooting DPMS ARs for many years. think i got my first one back in 01 or 02. it was the lite-16 model (non-chrome lined because I ordered it that way) put between 8-10K through it
without any breakages or rifle related failures. ran every type of ammo out there. only sold it to buy a new DPMS. the sheriffs office in my county and the one to the south issue DPMS rifles for the squad cars, the local TAC team also uses DPMS rifles. I am a city cop and also carry a DPMS rifle in my squad. I currently own 5 DPMS ARs, all are 100%reliable, all shoot under 1MOA. I also used to work at DPMS makeing the rifles. i can assure you that every rifle had a GO-NO GO gage used in it before it was sent for its manditory 20 rounds of testfireing. in addition, having personaly installed many thousends of DPMS trigger groups, i have never had to use anything more then my fingers to push in the pins. |
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Posted: 7/9/2011 7:52:55 AM EDT
[#11]
Ok.. after 600+ rounds thru my DPMS 556 Oracle.. I had the gas block screws just start to lossen up..
Luckily I have the proper size allen key and retighted them.. Should I use Red Locktite or just keep an eye on them?? Or Blue maybe?? |
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Posted: 7/9/2011 7:57:11 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Ok.. after 600+ rounds thru my DPMS 556 Oracle.. I had the gas block screws just start to lossen up.. Luckily I have the proper size allen key and retighted them.. Should I use Red Locktite or just keep an eye on them?? Or Blue maybe?? For a gas block you should use Red |
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Posted: 7/9/2011 8:08:45 AM EDT
[#13]
Out of spec 5.56 chambers
Non-concentric bores & threads Many broken bolts at the cam pin hole (issue may have been resolved when they switched to Toolcraft) Out of spec roll pins Crappy fcg Just to name a few problems that are frequently encountered with DPMS. Certainly every brand will have issues now & then, however, DPMS is consistently puts out lemons. We have a few full auto 11.5's at work & they have had persistent fcg issues & they caused baffle & end cap strikes on our cans. They have been back to DPMS a few times & are returned with the same issues. Not my call to make as to which brands are purchased but our tac team CO at the time was warned against purchasing DPMS for work guns & he decided to buy anyway based on price alone. Many have received good guns from DPMS but I personally would look elsewhere since their track record for quality is not the best. Not bashing them, I have nothing against them, but just stating the facts as I have seen them. Good luck with your decision, OP. |
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Posted: 7/9/2011 9:43:05 AM EDT
[#14]
DPMS is an acronym for Didn't Pass Mil-Spec. Enough said, do your homework before you buy.
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Posted: 7/9/2011 10:21:19 AM EDT
[#15]
My buddy has one and has not had any issues???? Tight chambers??? Change the barrel.... Bad bolt parts??? put in better parts.
Impala |
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Posted: 7/9/2011 10:36:54 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
My buddy has one and has not had any issues???? Tight chambers??? Change the barrel.... Bad bolt parts??? put in better parts. Impala Rifle with out of spec parts??? Buy a better rifle
Sorry man, had to do it. I do own one dpms lower receivered gun and it has run fine. 
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Posted: 7/9/2011 10:43:55 AM EDT
[#17]
––––––––––––––
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Posted: 7/9/2011 10:49:19 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: You probably not going to find a bunch of love for them here. That said if your looking for a "budget" target rifle they should be considered. Just don't go paying msrp The prices of DPMS in the EE do not reflect your opinion. I wish you were right though. 
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Posted: 7/9/2011 1:16:44 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ok.. after 600+ rounds thru my DPMS 556 Oracle.. I had the gas block screws just start to lossen up.. Luckily I have the proper size allen key and retighted them.. Should I use Red Locktite or just keep an eye on them?? Or Blue maybe?? For a gas block you should use Red Thanks.. Red is now in.. going to range again tommorrow for some 50-200 yards shooting fun with my DPMS 5.56.. Al |
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Posted: 7/10/2011 6:33:59 AM EDT
[#20]
I've had my AP-4 for about 4 years and have not had one problem; the 6 ammo cans (w/empty brass) in my basement is a testament to this.
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Posted: 7/10/2011 6:52:38 AM EDT
[#21]
Gasblock is holding fine with the Red Loctite.. Shot @ 100 and 200 yards today..
100 yards with 3MOA T-Dot.. and kneeling.. COM'd.. 
100 yards with 3MOA T-Dot holding rifle above a BAG.. 
200 yards with same 3MOA T-Dot (which is 6" @ 200 yards).. and holding rifle above the BAG.. 6"h x 9"w. 
Overall a good quick hour of fun.. (now at 890 rounds thru mine).. FWIW. The DPMS Oracle 5.56 (like I have here) is on sale for $569 from Surplus Ammo & Arms (forum vendor).. and also where I bought mine last month.. Al |
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Posted: 7/10/2011 7:02:25 AM EDT
[#22]
Have owned several. Thousands and thousands of rounds through them. Problems with any of them was zero.
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Posted: 7/10/2011 7:24:54 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Quoted: You probably not going to find a bunch of love for them here. That said if your looking for a "budget" target rifle they should be considered. Just don't go paying msrp The prices of DPMS in the EE do not reflect your opinion. I wish you were right though. Patience is a virtue  |
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Posted: 8/8/2011 11:08:27 AM EDT
[#24]
.........
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Posted: 8/8/2011 12:56:51 PM EDT
[#25]
I got a Sportical a couple weeks ago from my dad NIB
I've only shot about 200 rounds so far but I've had no issues and it was all some cheap ass tula ammo |
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Posted: 8/8/2011 1:08:55 PM EDT
[#26]
I run a DPMS upper and LPK and it's been nothing but reliable. It eats everything and can outshoot me. I've put multiple M855 through my 1x9 barrel damn near in the same hole with irons. Not every time and shooting off a bag, but that's damn impressive if you ask me.
Also, borrowed from "The Official Beat-all-to-hell Black Rifle Picture Thread"... Quoted:
Ole Battle Axe… The pictures tell the story as well as the Memo from a PD that tested and evaluated this rifle. Round count, 10K? Chrome barrel? No. 4140 steel? Yes. Parts replaced? Yes, gas rings and 1 set of handguards Used and abused by SWAT teams and the DPMS sales department? Yes. Goes bang every time and bullet goes where you want it to? Yes 
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Posted: 8/8/2011 5:20:13 PM EDT
[#27]
Now that is one hell of a testament...too bad it won't be good enough for alot here on the site.
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Posted: 8/8/2011 5:37:49 PM EDT
[#28]
Wonder why they took photo's of it on a DPMS tombstone..
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Posted: 8/8/2011 5:54:07 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Wonder why they took photo's of it on a DPMS tombstone.. that is something that DPMS had made up, it sits outside the front door of the factory. |
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Posted: 8/8/2011 6:04:28 PM EDT
[#30]
i have a 16" bull and all b.s aside i shot a about a quarter (not1/4 in ) group with it this weekend.i was standing with no support and using a $55 walter red dot so the gun aint that bad. just make sure you tighten up the gas block that was the only thing i had a problem with.
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Posted: 8/8/2011 6:31:14 PM EDT
[#31]
In the 5.56 platform, there are much better values in my opinion. Spike's comes to mind.
In the .308 platform, know what you're getting into and you'll be okay. There's not that many manufacturers in the .308 world, and it seems like the majority of them cater to the high-end market. LaRue, LMT, LWRC, KAC, Noveske...ultimately Spike's looks like it'll be pricey with all the tricked out stuff they're planning on. Then at the other end of the spectrum there's CMMG, DPMS, and Armalite. There's not a whole lot in that $1000+ price gap between the lower end and the high end. I have a DPMS .308 listed on the EE right now, and I'm not selling it because of any deficiency with the gun. I just want to stick with the AR-15 platform for semi-auto and drop about $1200 into my bolt action instead of splitting between my bolt action and the DPMS. If I ever ended up with another .308 in the AR platform, it would probably be after selling a lung, kidney, or roommate to buy a LaRue. There's just something about those guns... |
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Posted: 8/8/2011 9:26:48 PM EDT
[#32]
Myself and a good friend have used at least 5 LPKs between us with no issues. All rifles have at least 2K rounds through them except for my cav arms SEBR.
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Posted: 8/8/2011 9:37:53 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Wonder why they took photo's of it on a DPMS tombstone.. because the tombstone kicks ass! and that is a def a testament. the swat team put that rifle through hell and it held up fine |
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Posted: 8/8/2011 11:04:00 PM EDT
[#34]
They aren't bad. You can get better for the price nowadays, though. I have had two soft or out-of-spec disconnectors from them (only in LPKs, not assembled rifles) that caused otherwise in-spec guns to go full auto. This has made me a bit leery of their FCGs.
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Posted: 8/8/2011 11:25:35 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
They aren't bad. You can get better for the price nowadays, though. This. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 12:44:10 AM EDT
[#36]
I began my first build using a DPMS lower parts kit. That project is nearly complete so I've started my second build which will utilize a Bushmaster lower parts kit. I haven't shot with the DPMS kit, so I cannot give a full review, however I will say that the roll pin issue that others have brought up was certainly a problem for me. The roll pin diameter seemed to be out of spec...just way to big for the holes. Also dry firing had led me to draw the conclusion that the trigger is a bit gritty. I don't expect perfectly smooth, crisp and light as you'd get with a Timey set-up, but I had hoped for something a little more refined than what I got. Oh well.....that's the way life goes, I guess.
Quoted:
I am new here but dont see many reviews on dpms rifles anyone have an opinion |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 12:47:47 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
I began my first build using a DPMS lower parts kit. That project is nearly complete so I've started my second build which will utilize a Bushmaster lower parts kit. I haven't shot with the DPMS kit, so I cannot give a full review, however I will say that the roll pin issue that others have brought up was certainly a problem for me. The roll pin diameter seemed to be out of spec...just way to big for the holes. Also dry firing had led me to draw the conclusion that the trigger is a bit gritty. I don't expect perfectly smooth, crisp and light as you'd get with a Timey set-up, but I had hoped for something a little more refined than what I got. Oh well.....that's the way life goes, I guess. Quoted:
I am new here but dont see many reviews on dpms rifles anyone have an opinion Your trigger will break in with time. Shoot it a lot, and it will be great. Milspec-dimension triggers almost always feel like that when brand new. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 1:08:36 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Milspec-dimension triggers almost always feel like that when brand new. Not one of the DD triggers I've used has felt like that. Still heavy, but no grit. Every DPMS trigger I've seen has been obvious garbage even before installing it. I have no experience with DPMS rifles, but their small parts have been enough to turn me off from them. Bolt catches that looked like they were made from swiss cheese, magazine catches that were so covered in burrs they wouldn't fit in the lower, triggers that felt like a gravel road, pins that were too tight. Every DPMS mag catch I've tried sticks as well. Not every time, but if you hit it at the right angle (which happens to be too easy to do) it sticks, then you have to release it and ensure you are pushing from the correct angle. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 1:11:24 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Milspec-dimension triggers almost always feel like that when brand new. Not one of the DD triggers I've used has felt like that. Still heavy, but no grit. Every DPMS trigger I've seen has been obvious garbage even before installing it. I have no experience with DPMS rifles, but their small parts have been enough to turn me off from them. Bolt catches that looked like they were made from swiss cheese, magazine catches that were so covered in burrs they wouldn't fit in the lower, triggers that felt like a gravel road, pins that were too tight. Every DPMS mag catch I've tried sticks as well. Not every time, but if you hit it at the right angle (which happens to be too easy to do) it sticks, then you have to release it and ensure you are pushing from the correct angle. Like I said before, I don't use DPMS FCGs anymore. However, from what I've seen, most of DPMS' grittiness problem seems to come from too much parkerizing. That wears off with just a little use, and the trigger feels better. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 6:39:56 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Milspec-dimension triggers almost always feel like that when brand new. Not one of the DD triggers I've used has felt like that. Still heavy, but no grit. Every DPMS trigger I've seen has been obvious garbage even before installing it. I have no experience with DPMS rifles, but their small parts have been enough to turn me off from them. Bolt catches that looked like they were made from swiss cheese, magazine catches that were so covered in burrs they wouldn't fit in the lower, triggers that felt like a gravel road, pins that were too tight. Every DPMS mag catch I've tried sticks as well. Not every time, but if you hit it at the right angle (which happens to be too easy to do) it sticks, then you have to release it and ensure you are pushing from the correct angle. if you mean that the mag catch is hooking on the outside edge of the receiver, then you need to turn it in one more time. as to the roll pins, they are supposed to be oversided to the hole that they go in. makes for a solid fit when installed. they wont go in well at all unless you are useing the right punch set or the press that is used at the factory. |
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Posted: 8/9/2011 10:15:28 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Milspec-dimension triggers almost always feel like that when brand new. Not one of the DD triggers I've used has felt like that. Still heavy, but no grit. Every DPMS trigger I've seen has been obvious garbage even before installing it. I have no experience with DPMS rifles, but their small parts have been enough to turn me off from them. Bolt catches that looked like they were made from swiss cheese, magazine catches that were so covered in burrs they wouldn't fit in the lower, triggers that felt like a gravel road, pins that were too tight. Every DPMS mag catch I've tried sticks as well. Not every time, but if you hit it at the right angle (which happens to be too easy to do) it sticks, then you have to release it and ensure you are pushing from the correct angle. My DPMS does that too. 
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Posted: 8/9/2011 1:45:51 PM EDT
[#42]
I just assembled a surplus ammo and arms lower with a DPMS kit and it all went together fine, and the mag release doesn't catch on anything.
My mag release button though, did come without any knurling/texture on it. (no, it's not on upside down, it's smooth on both sides) on the bright side, I made a quick call to DPMS today and they are sending me out a new button, so no issues. If you don't like the gritty trigger, polish it, just don't fubar the hammer/sear engagement angles. |
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Posted: 8/21/2011 7:59:00 AM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 8/21/2011 8:02:37 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
if you mean that the mag catch is hooking on the outside edge of the receiver, then you need to turn it in one more time. as to the roll pins, they are supposed to be oversided to the hole that they go in. makes for a solid fit when installed. they wont go in well at all unless you are useing the right punch set or the press that is used at the factory. Nope, when trying to push it in to release the magazine, something sticks and won't allow the catch to move at all. If you change the angle that you're hitting the mag catch button from it frees up. As for the pins, I use roll pin holders and roll pin punches to install them, they're still tighter than any other LPK I've ever used. |
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Posted: 8/21/2011 8:17:13 PM EDT
[#45]
I have a DPMS lower with a Del-Ton upper and I have no complaints with either manufacturer.
I load my rounds at the high end suggested by Hodgdon and have put well over 500 rounds in this rifle with no failures as of yet. |
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Posted: 8/21/2011 11:54:55 PM EDT
[#46]
I have a couple DPMS lowers as well as Colt, Spikes, and Bushmaster. Can't tell the difference, they all look and work the same.
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Posted: 8/22/2011 12:01:46 AM EDT
[#47]
I had problems with my 16" carbine eating gas rings like crazy, so after a few sets and getting a new bolt carrier from DPMS (they had great customer service when I exchanged that back in 2007 or maybe it was 2006...), I eventually got a Bravo Company bolt carrier group to replace the DPMS one. But I never had any malfunctions with the gun, even when it was eating gas rings and was down to one well worn gas ring.
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Posted: 8/22/2011 12:02:48 AM EDT
[#48]
oops double tapped.
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Posted: 8/22/2011 3:40:46 AM EDT
[#49]
IMO, they are decent hobby-grade rifles. Suitable for range use and limited training. They do not have the quality materials and inspections asscoiated with rifles intended for harder use. I've seen a lot of them in carbine classes I've attended. At least one DPMS rifle has gone down in every class I've taken. But.... that also means that a a bunch made it through fine. It's a bit more of a crap shoot with DPMS, but the odds are still on your side. However... the kicker is that I think you can do MUCH better for about the same money from other vendors, which have been mentioned here. |
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Posted: 8/22/2011 4:01:49 AM EDT
[#50]
I own an Oracle. It's definitely not fancy. The fit and finish is good, but not great. New to the game when I purchased I know now I could have done better money-wise. That being said I am completely happy with their product. It is a fine shooter and while I may not be using it everyday, when I do use it I cut it no slack. Most times when I shoot I go through several hundred rounds at a time with at least 2 or 3 mag dumps cause' I think that's fun. I have first-hand experience with mine and a friends whose is identical. They both have been great and DPMS will stand behind their products 100%. If you don't believe that start a thread on here about a problem and watch how quick a rep of theirs responds. That being said I have pictures of my gun and the targets I shot this Saturday if your interested.
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