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wnycollector
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Posted: 1/26/2011 8:00:53 PM
I'm thinking of picking up a heavy barreled upper to go on my RRA NM lower. It's main task will be punching paper out to 500 yards and taking the occasional woodchuck at a buddies parents dairy farm. I think I have it narrowed down to two uppers. The first is the Bushmaster 20" Predator Upper and the other is the RRA 20 Inch Predator Pursuit Upper. I have a soft spot for RRA but I can pick up the Bushmaster for $100+ less. If both uppers have similar accuracy, I would prefer to spend the extra $100 on better glass for the rifle. So what do you guys think? Also have I overlooked another maker? White Oak maybe?
FMJ
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Posted: 1/26/2011 8:07:19 PM
Originally Posted By wnycollector:
I'm thinking of picking up a heavy barreled upper to go on my RRA NM lower. It's main task will be punching paper out to 500 yards and taking the occasional woodchuck at a buddies parents dairy farm. I think I have it narrowed down to two uppers. The first is the Bushmaster 20" Predator Upper and the other is the RRA 20 Inch Predator Pursuit Upper. I have a soft spot for RRA but I can pick up the Bushmaster for $100+ less. If both uppers have similar accuracy, I would prefer to spend the extra $100 on better glass for the rifle. So what do you guys think? Also have I overlooked another maker? White Oak maybe?


how about a RRA Flat Top 20inch SS 1/8 twist

add your own FF tube or rail
YHVH
PC-Tech
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Posted: 1/26/2011 8:23:02 PM
I think he can get the RRA 20 Inch Predator Pursuit Upper with the free Chrome BCG upgrade. Check with Legal-Transfers.
BamaInArk
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Posted: 1/26/2011 8:31:13 PM
Things to consider. The Bushmaster Predator is NOT a heavy barrel. It has a 1:8 twist but it's not Chrome lined. May be ok for accuracy but not for durability. It also has, what I was told by their tech support guys, a Compass Lake(his words) chamber. Compass Lake is known for target barrels but not sure about their chambers. Supposed to be ok to shoot 5.56. Also the gas block is a milled down FSB.

The RRA IS a heavy barrel with 1:8 twist and Stainless Steel.

There's a reason the Bushy is cheaper!
"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln
wnycollector
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Posted: 1/26/2011 9:09:00 PM
Originally Posted By PC-Tech:
I think he can get the RRA 20 Inch Predator Pursuit Upper with the free Chrome BCG upgrade. Check with Legal-Transfers.


Legal Transfers has a great price ($612 shipped w/ BB finish and chrome bolt) of the RRA Predator Pursuit upper. The Bushy Predator upper is ~$100 cheaper from Midway when I use one of their $50 off coupons codes. I don't mind spending the more for an upper as long as there is a real tangible difference inaccuracy/durability/quality.
Jonnysixguns
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Posted: 1/26/2011 9:35:57 PM
Originally Posted By BamaInArk:
Things to consider. The Bushmaster Predator is NOT a heavy barrel. It has a 1:8 twist but it's not Chrome lined. May be ok for accuracy but not for durability. It also has, what I was told by their tech support guys, a Compass Lake(his words) chamber. Compass Lake is known for target barrels but not sure about their chambers. Supposed to be ok to shoot 5.56. Also the gas block is a milled down FSB.

The RRA IS a heavy barrel with 1:8 twist and Stainless Steel.

There's a reason the Bushy is cheaper!


My dad owns a varminter which they describe as being the Predator with a 20" barrel. It is basically a fluted HBAR contour to put not too fine of a point on it.

Personal experience- I have never felt like it was a huge pain to clean non chrome lined barrels. I shoot that type of rifle and a serious afternoon is 50 shots. Perhaps a good accompanying analogy is this... I owned a remington PSS of similar role. A 26" barreled heavy .223 that I used for postage stamp stuff at 100 yds. No one would tell me the lack of chrome lining wasn't an issue because it isn't to most of us. I shoot in all weather (Houston TX and KY) in all seasons and I don't encounter rust either, cleaning was addressed earlier.

The RRA may be a better gun, I haven't shot one. But I've spent hours behind a 24" barreled version of the predator and cared for it on my fathers behalf. I have no complaints.
“It is interesting to hear certain kinds of people insist that the citizen cannot fight the government. [...] The citizen most certainly can fight the government, and usually wins when he tries. [...]" -Jeff Cooper
BamaInArk
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Posted: 1/26/2011 10:06:30 PM
Originally Posted By Jonnysixguns:
Originally Posted By BamaInArk:
Things to consider. The Bushmaster Predator is NOT a heavy barrel. It has a 1:8 twist but it's not Chrome lined. May be ok for accuracy but not for durability. It also has, what I was told by their tech support guys, a Compass Lake(his words) chamber. Compass Lake is known for target barrels but not sure about their chambers. Supposed to be ok to shoot 5.56. Also the gas block is a milled down FSB.

The RRA IS a heavy barrel with 1:8 twist and Stainless Steel.

There's a reason the Bushy is cheaper!


My dad owns a varminter which they describe as being the Predator with a 20" barrel. It is basically a fluted HBAR contour to put not too fine of a point on it.

Personal experience- I have never felt like it was a huge pain to clean non chrome lined barrels. I shoot that type of rifle and a serious afternoon is 50 shots. Perhaps a good accompanying analogy is this... I owned a remington PSS of similar role. A 26" barreled heavy .223 that I used for postage stamp stuff at 100 yds. No one would tell me the lack of chrome lining wasn't an issue because it isn't to most of us. I shoot in all weather (Houston TX and KY) in all seasons and I don't encounter rust either, cleaning was addressed earlier.

The RRA may be a better gun, I haven't shot one. But I've spent hours behind a 24" barreled version of the predator and cared for it on my fathers behalf. I have no complaints.


Unfortunately the Predator and Varminter have two completely different barrels. Predator is as I described while the Varminter is a 24 inch, 1:9 twist heavy( true heavy) barrel.(Predator is a thin barrel) Not sure if the Varminter is Chrome lined.

My comment about the lack of chrome lining has more to due with durability than anything and not about cleaning. Non chromed lined barrels don't last as long as SS or chrome lined. At one time non chrome lined barrels were considered the most accurate but today's SS barrels seem to have caught up in the accuracy department. Many people choose a SS barrel simply because it lasts longer than a non chrome lined one.

Calling a Varminter a 24 inch version of the 20 inch Predator is not accurate.
"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln
FMJ
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Posted: 1/26/2011 10:07:46 PM
Originally Posted By Jonnysixguns:
Originally Posted By BamaInArk:
Things to consider. The Bushmaster Predator is NOT a heavy barrel. It has a 1:8 twist but it's not Chrome lined. May be ok for accuracy but not for durability. It also has, what I was told by their tech support guys, a Compass Lake(his words) chamber. Compass Lake is known for target barrels but not sure about their chambers. Supposed to be ok to shoot 5.56. Also the gas block is a milled down FSB.

The RRA IS a heavy barrel with 1:8 twist and Stainless Steel.

There's a reason the Bushy is cheaper!


My dad owns a varminter which they describe as being the Predator with a 20" barrel. It is basically a fluted HBAR contour to put not too fine of a point on it.

Personal experience- I have never felt like it was a huge pain to clean non chrome lined barrels. I shoot that type of rifle and a serious afternoon is 50 shots. Perhaps a good accompanying analogy is this... I owned a remington PSS of similar role. A 26" barreled heavy .223 that I used for postage stamp stuff at 100 yds. No one would tell me the lack of chrome lining wasn't an issue because it isn't to most of us. I shoot in all weather (Houston TX and KY) in all seasons and I don't encounter rust either, cleaning was addressed earlier.

The RRA may be a better gun, I haven't shot one. But I've spent hours behind a 24" barreled version of the predator and cared for it on my fathers behalf. I have no complaints.






If I wanted match accuracy. I wouldnt want a chrome lined barrel.

I agree CL aint needed on a hunting rifle
And never had problems with non CL barrels

I do know bushmaster makes Quality barrels

YHVH
Jonnysixguns
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Posted: 1/26/2011 10:26:15 PM
[Last Edit: 1/26/2011 10:27:44 PM by Jonnysixguns]
Originally Posted By BamaInArk:
Originally Posted By Jonnysixguns:
Originally Posted By BamaInArk:
Things to consider. The Bushmaster Predator is NOT a heavy barrel. It has a 1:8 twist but it's not Chrome lined. May be ok for accuracy but not for durability. It also has, what I was told by their tech support guys, a Compass Lake(his words) chamber. Compass Lake is known for target barrels but not sure about their chambers. Supposed to be ok to shoot 5.56. Also the gas block is a milled down FSB.

The RRA IS a heavy barrel with 1:8 twist and Stainless Steel.

There's a reason the Bushy is cheaper!


My dad owns a varminter which they describe as being the Predator with a 20" barrel. It is basically a fluted HBAR contour to put not too fine of a point on it.

Personal experience- I have never felt like it was a huge pain to clean non chrome lined barrels. I shoot that type of rifle and a serious afternoon is 50 shots. Perhaps a good accompanying analogy is this... I owned a remington PSS of similar role. A 26" barreled heavy .223 that I used for postage stamp stuff at 100 yds. No one would tell me the lack of chrome lining wasn't an issue because it isn't to most of us. I shoot in all weather (Houston TX and KY) in all seasons and I don't encounter rust either, cleaning was addressed earlier.

The RRA may be a better gun, I haven't shot one. But I've spent hours behind a 24" barreled version of the predator and cared for it on my fathers behalf. I have no complaints.


Unfortunately the Predator and Varminter have two completely different barrels. Predator is as I described while the Varminter is a 24 inch, 1:9 twist heavy( true heavy) barrel.(Predator is a thin barrel) Not sure if the Varminter is Chrome lined.

My comment about the lack of chrome lining has more to due with durability than anything and not about cleaning. Non chromed lined barrels don't last as long as SS or chrome lined. At one time non chrome lined barrels were considered the most accurate but today's SS barrels seem to have caught up in the accuracy department. Many people choose a SS barrel simply because it lasts longer than a non chrome lined one.

Calling a Varminter a 24 inch version of the 20 inch Predator is not accurate.


http://www.bushmaster.com/products.asp?cat=7

Scroll down... I could well be wrong but their own site also describes it as a '20" Varminter'. The barrel contour may be lighter than the heavy RRA barrels but the ones seen there and described aren't gov't profile.

http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_xm15_PCWVMS20FPRED8.asp Note the description paragraph. Out of date website perhaps?
“It is interesting to hear certain kinds of people insist that the citizen cannot fight the government. [...] The citizen most certainly can fight the government, and usually wins when he tries. [...]" -Jeff Cooper
BamaInArk
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Posted: 1/26/2011 10:58:53 PM
Well holy cow. Doing some checking here. I got a Predator but never had the upper apart. In reading the Bushmaster description about the two it seemed as if the Varminter had the heavier barrel. Their website says it's a full one inch...but only "under the handguard" upon closer inspection. So I measure my Predator barrel. Well it's ONE inch under the handguard. Well like .970 so close enough. lol Go figure. I'd really have to look at the two barrels together but it looks like they are indeed similar in profile just different lengths. I stand corrected.

Still one of the selling points for me was 1:8 vs 1:9 twists. Matters to some I guess. If you're only shooting lighter bullets then 1:9 is fine but if you want to shoot heavier bullets then the 1:8 would be better.

I built a new upper for my Predator lower using a LW 1:8 SS barrel with a Wylde chamber. Shoots circles around my Predator upper. With factory ammo.
"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln
Coy_Greer
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Posted: 1/28/2011 5:38:47 AM
Get the Bushmaster. Contrary to the misinformation stated here, Stainless is NOT more durable than a Non Chromed 4150 Carbon Steel barrel. That is utter bullshit. Carbon Steel is more durable than stainless steel from the start. An unlined 4150 Carbon steel barrel is going to exceed the durability of any but the Highest quality stainless alloy barrels. The RRA barrel is made from a Standard stainless alloy, not one of the stainless "super steels". The Bushy has a Bullet proof gas block, a milled down front sight. I think for your purposes, the Bushmaster would work just fine.
I am the member formerly known as C_Rion.
Tamarac
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Posted: 1/28/2011 7:59:22 AM
I have a Bushy 20" Varminter with the 1:8 twist. It seems to me like a pretty heavy barrel and it will take 3 shots and turn it into nice jagged single hole groups. I can't speak for the RRA, but I will say I love my Bushy and wouldn't trade it for anything. If your just hunting with it, or plinking, you really can't go wrong. Good luck!!
wnycollector
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Posted: 2/23/2011 6:28:21 PM
Just to put a little closure to this thread, I ended up picking up a RRA ATH upper. I decided on the 18" barrel ofter shooting a gents BCMBCM Mk 12 Mod 0 at the range last weekend. Since I didnt have a spare $1200 rattling around in my pocket the RRA got the nod I figure I can buy a whole lot on ammo for the price difference between the BCM and the RRA. I'm sure the RRA will meet it's 3/4" MOA guarantee.

I think the upper will fit nicely on my RRA national match lower with ACE ARFX stock. I plan on topping it off with a Mueller 3-10x44 TAC II. Once my buddy gets his 500 yards range completed this spring I cant wait to put this rifle through its paces.
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Posted: 2/23/2011 9:26:15 PM
Just got ( Sept. '10) RRA predator pursuit mid-length 16" SS 1 in 8 twist A4, advanced quad hand guard fixed lenght CAR stock, 2 stage trigger. It does as advertised, sub1" at 100 yds. Shooting Fed. LC 193 & 855.Haven't shot further yet. I do love my BUSHMASTER DCM too.








Springer09
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Posted: 2/23/2011 9:31:16 PM

Originally Posted By wnycollector:
Just to put a little closure to this thread, I ended up picking up a RRA ATH upper. I decided on the 18" barrel ofter shooting a gents BCMBCM Mk 12 Mod 0 at the range last weekend. Since I didnt have a spare $1200 rattling around in my pocket the RRA got the nod I figure I can buy a whole lot on ammo for the price difference between the BCM and the RRA. I'm sure the RRA will meet it's 3/4" MOA guarantee.

I think the upper will fit nicely on my RRA national match lower with ACE ARFX stock. I plan on topping it off with a Mueller 3-10x44 TAC II. Once my buddy gets his 500 yards range completed this spring I cant wait to put this rifle through its paces.


nice

the BCM vs RRA is not an issue in an rifle filling this role
nukeshooter
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Posted: 2/23/2011 10:35:44 PM
Originally Posted By wnycollector:
Just to put a little closure to this thread, I ended up picking up a RRA ATH upper. I decided on the 18" barrel ofter shooting a gents BCMBCM Mk 12 Mod 0 at the range last weekend. Since I didnt have a spare $1200 rattling around in my pocket the RRA got the nod I figure I can buy a whole lot on ammo for the price difference between the BCM and the RRA. I'm sure the RRA will meet it's 3/4" MOA guarantee.

I think the upper will fit nicely on my RRA national match lower with ACE ARFX stock. I plan on topping it off with a Mueller 3-10x44 TAC II. Once my buddy gets his 500 yards range completed this spring I cant wait to put this rifle through its paces.


I just got the ATH last week and shot it Saturday. It is one sweet shooter. I've got a Nikon 2.5X10 BDC on mine. I feel like it is a great multi-purpose gun.