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Posted: 12/20/2010 4:48:05 AM EDT
A guy asked me about thses and I don't know anything about them. I know some are not chromed lined and some are. Do these have a good reputation? Thanks...
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Don't own one but a buddy does that eats everything he feeds it with zero issues. They are G2G. The CL barrell is a $45.00 option.
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They are GTG as a rule.... but for a duty rifle i would look into a Spikes, DD, BCM, Colt, LMT or build it yourself most preferably.
Any duty rifle should be in a different tier than a Del-ton. Del-tons are great beginner rifles and plinkers and range guns... but when it comes to "duty" i would personally choose one of the above companies. |
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They are GTG as a rule.... but for a duty rifle i would look into a Spikes, DD, BCM, Colt, LMT or build it yourself most preferably. Any duty rifle should be in a different tier than a Del-ton. Del-tons are great beginner rifles and plinkers and range guns... but when it comes to "duty" i would personally choose one of the above companies. I agree with the post above. When it comes to a duty rifle, I would want the processes and procedures (individually HPT and MPI tested barrels - individually HPT, MPI, and Shot Peened bolts) that are going to reduce the liklihood of failures. No mfg can ever do enough to guarantee that their rifle will not fail, but there are things that can be done to reduce the liklihood. Again, Del-Ton's are not a bad rifle, but for a duty weapon I would opt for something better. I'm sure the "Del-Ton brigade" will stop by shortly to tell you why we are wrong. |
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I plan on retiring my Bushmaster to home-protection/wife's gun in the spring and will use my Del Ton MUTT for work and home defense. I've got 600 rounds (Winchester .223 and PRVI Partizan 5.56) through it in about a month and its running fine. I do want to run it through a carbine course in the spring before making a final decision. I don't see that there will be an issue. I'm more cautious about the piston kit I added then the carbine and its parts. But the piston is an Adams Arms and I've read nothing but good on them.
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I kind of asked a similar question about DelTon's overall quality as a platform to get started with.
Here's my thread, it may help: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=519342 Based on what I have seen here and heard from everyone else, except for gun dealers that want you to buy what they have, is that they are great for the money. I decided to buy a mid length kit from them just a week ago. Can't wait for it to get here |
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Honestly, Del-Ton is pretty low grade stuff and you get what you pay for. There are many that claim success with them but I don't know any professionals that run them.
Whatever you go with, get a midlength gas system. Much easier on the internals and is more reliable. |
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I only have a Del Ton barrel, but it is fine. If the rifle fails, that will not be the cause. Most smaller brands do not make their barrels or BCGs. Many even contract out their receivers. I would recommend that you build your own lower, and purchase an upper.
People get all hot and bothered about particular brands. But the flavor of the month changes like underwear on a cheerleader. It was RRA, then CMMG, then LMT, then BCM. These are all good, but buy the rifle, and not the hype. There are a lot of rifles that some would call "second Tier", such as RRA, Stag, and Armalite, that are just fine. I have a GI FN upper, and it is good, but not any better than any quality civilian rifle. My favorite is Armalite, dollar for dollar. It is my most accurate rifle. Strongly recommend a chrome-lined barrel and a top tier BCG. |
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The most reasonable answer for the patrol rifle question is Colt 6920. Aside from price, it's easy to sell administrators on it because of Colt's .mil contracts. Plus, it's arguably the most reliable fighting AR-15 variant out there.
Is it "the best"? Eh... I don't like that term. But for all the criticism tossed around, it's hard to argue the 6920 as being bad for that role. If Colt is out of the question due to budget problems, check BCM, LMT, and Daniel Defense. And if those are out of the question due to budget problems, hold a fund raiser. |
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The first thing you need to do for a patrol rifle is to see exactly what your agency will let you carry. Spending money on a rifle and then getting a "no go" would not be good. Some have restrictions on different aspects. My agency is based on the approval of the armorer, but they have to be 16" or greater.
I am far from a brand snob, but I would personally not carry one as a duty rifle. I currently use a Bushmaster and am happy with it. I have thought about retiring it to home use and using my LMT or DD instead. If I were purchasing one new, it would be LMT or DD. There are some good deals on DD to be found. If your agency is fairly receptive to lesser known brands, a lot of people here recommend Spikes. I don't have any experience with them, so I can't comment on that. The price is right, however. http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/st15-midlength-le-carbine-p-443.html People here also swear by BCM. I don't have one of their rifles, so again I can't comment. I have bought other products from them and they are solid in that respect. http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-M4-Carbine-AR15-Bravo-Company-s/141.htm Check with assorted retailers/suppliers about LE pricing (I assume that since you say "Patrol Rifle" you are LE0). |
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DTI isnt all that bad ( unless you talk to a bcm, LMT, COLT kool-aid drinkers ), just as reliable as next rifle, any rifle doesant matter if its $1500 rifle or $750 rifle long as its cleaned and lubed properly it should function flawlessly.
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DTI isnt all that bad ( unless you talk to a bcm, LMT, COLT kool-aid drinkers ), just as reliable as next rifle, any rifle doesant matter if its $1500 rifle or $750 rifle long as its cleaned and lubed properly it should function flawlessly. ok, tell that to the BlackThorne, vulcan, hesse, owners. |
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I run a Del-Ton middy upper on a Bushmaster lower and I use it for work, it works fine I replaced the BCG with Spikes and put on Magpul MOE furniture and have not had a problem with it yet. I have rtun over 1000+ rounds through it and it shoots pretty good, and no malfunctions. I have run Tula and Wolf 55 grain with no problems either.
If you have the money buy a Colt if not no problem, Del-ton works fine. |
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they should have came here and got some advise on what to get and what not to get. personaly i dont really look or shop for anything unless they have a link or enough people have said it was g2g from this site
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If you do use a Delton, I would replace the bolt with an HP/MPI tested.
Upper receivers and lowers receivers I've never had issues with. Barrels are not bad, not the best, but not bad. The heart of an AR is the Bolt. Barrel is where accuracy is made. So long as the upper and lower receivers are in spec, you should be good to go. A decent trigger would be good. |
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A few years ago when I joined this forum, the "flavor of the month" was Bushmaster. I still have them, though they have fallen out of favor with a lot of folks here. Never had any trouble out of any of them. I will admit that I sold the neutered post ban lower on one, and replaced it with a BCM basic mid-length. I love it. I just bought one of the Smart Gunner DD lightweight upers to go on another lower I had. Haven't had a chance to give it an afternoon at the range yet. I have gone and replaced the older semi-auto (non-shrouded) bolt carrier assys. with BCM BCGs in a couple of the Bushmasters. Other than that, they are all still "stock" rifles. My point is that I have complete faith that they will go bang when I need them to. I don't have any personal experience with Del-Ton, but I imagine that they are pretty decent rifles. However, companies like BCM and Daniel Defense are selling their products so inexpensively at the moment, why not go ahead and get one of those?
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Quoted: Honestly, Del-Ton is pretty low grade stuff and you get what you pay for. There are many that claim success with them but I don't know any professionals that run them. Whatever you go with, get a midlength gas system. Much easier on the internals and is more reliable. How do you know it is low grade? |
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Honestly, Del-Ton is pretty low grade stuff and you get what you pay for. There are many that claim success with them but I don't know any professionals that run them. Whatever you go with, get a midlength gas system. Much easier on the internals and is more reliable. How do you know it is low grade? The better question is.. How do you know there not? |
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DTI isnt all that bad ( unless you talk to a bcm, LMT, COLT kool-aid drinkers ), just as reliable as next rifle, any rifle doesant matter if its $1500 rifle or $750 rifle long as its cleaned and lubed properly it should function flawlessly. This is incorrect. The reason there is a difference in prices (sometimes) and reputations is not specifically because of "kool-aid" Although there is a bit of that. But what makes one rifle different than the next is the quality of the parts. Things like the pins. They are more prone to breaking if you use lower quality ones. The BCG. This is the HEART of the rifle... this needs to be quality. You want a quality extractor. You want your BCG to be MP and HPI tested. There is no reason to skimp on such an important part of your rifle. Your trigger can improve your accuracy and speed... a nasty gritty trigger will effect your POI. Your barrel is another big part... you want to hit where you're aiming right? What if you HAVE to hit a small target on a bad guy? Del-tons aren't bad. But they aren't the best... when peoples lives are on the line you want the best you can get. Don't say parts are parts. That is not true on nearly any mechanical item.. and it could be a deadly misconception on a rifle. |
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I personally like my S&W M&P15 I am not an officer nor do I play one on TV but i would with out question bet my life on it. I got it for a great deal but as others have said with BCM and Spikes selling a product thats equal in quality and cheaper in price to Colt why not go with some thing that has been tested
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How do you know it is low grade? The better question is.. How do you know there not? Was not what I asked! |
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Quoted: How do you know it is low grade?Quoted: Honestly, Del-Ton is pretty low grade stuff and you get what you pay for. There are many that claim success with them but I don't know any professionals that run them. Whatever you go with, get a midlength gas system. Much easier on the internals and is more reliable. How do you know it is low grade? |
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It's funny because we had Bushmaster's (gasp) for department issued AR's. I never recall one going down. I was allowed to carry my build on the entry team after quals. It was made out of Rock River barrel and lower with BCM BCG. Still running strong.
And I use RRA FCG's. |
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DTI isnt all that bad ( unless you talk to a bcm, LMT, COLT kool-aid drinkers ), just as reliable as next rifle, any rifle doesant matter if its $1500 rifle or $750 rifle long as its cleaned and lubed properly it should function flawlessly. Run an average $750.00 AR in a Pat Rogers or Randy Cain course for 3 to 5 days and then report back to us. |
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This is the correct answer you are looking for:
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The most reasonable answer for the patrol rifle question is Colt 6920. Aside from price, it's easy to sell administrators on it because of Colt's .mil contracts. Plus, it's arguably the most reliable fighting AR-15 variant out there. Is it "the best"? Eh... I don't like that term. But for all the criticism tossed around, it's hard to argue the 6920 as being bad for that role. If Colt is out of the question due to budget problems, check BCM, LMT, and Daniel Defense. And if those are out of the question due to budget problems, hold a fund raiser. and this too: Quoted:
Don't say parts are parts. That is not true on nearly any mechanical item. If you are selecting a duty rifle you are selecting a tool that may someday result in a life being saved. Could be your life, could be a coworkers life, could be some innocent bystanders life. For the difference of a few hundred dollars between a hobby grade product and a professional grade product - is it really worth it to skimp? Maybe that rifle will never be deployed in any situation, maybe it will. But if there is ANY chance that it ever may I would rather see a Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense, KAC in your cruiser than a rilfe built for hobbyists. |
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DTI isnt all that bad ( unless you talk to a bcm, LMT, COLT kool-aid drinkers ), just as reliable as next rifle, any rifle doesant matter if its $1500 rifle or $750 rifle long as its cleaned and lubed properly it should function flawlessly. Run an average $750.00 AR in a Pat Rogers or Randy Cain course for 3 to 5 days and then report back to us. I looked on Pat Rogers site but didn't see how much do his classes usually run? |
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DTI isnt all that bad ( unless you talk to a bcm, LMT, COLT kool-aid drinkers ), just as reliable as next rifle, any rifle doesant matter if its $1500 rifle or $750 rifle long as its cleaned and lubed properly it should function flawlessly. Run an average $750.00 AR in a Pat Rogers or Randy Cain course for 3 to 5 days and then report back to us. I looked on Pat Rogers site but didn't see how much do his classes usually run? http://eagtactical.com/courseschedule.asp |
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I think you would be fine with one. A LE role for a rifle isnt like going into combat, you will have plenty of time to clean it and keep it lubed, and youre not going to be going through 200rd engagements.
All rifles need a few hundred run through it to check for function. Out of 3 bolts Ive broken in my lifetime 2 of them were Colts. I dont believe in that whole tier bullshit. Nor the flavor of the month mentality this place has. This year all we hear now is Spikes, last year it was CMMG. Bushmaster was the favorite once upon a time, Stag had a following for awhile. Shit I might buy a Del-Ton, so when its their turn I can be a trendsetter. |
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DTI isnt all that bad ( unless you talk to a bcm, LMT, COLT kool-aid drinkers ), just as reliable as next rifle, any rifle doesant matter if its $1500 rifle or $750 rifle long as its cleaned and lubed properly it should function flawlessly. Run an average $750.00 AR in a Pat Rogers or Randy Cain course for 3 to 5 days and then report back to us. I looked on Pat Rogers site but didn't see how much do his classes usually run? http://eagtactical.com/courseschedule.asp wholy crap them classes are expensive. I would love to do a class im sure it would be a lot of fun and I would learn a lot but no way I could afford that |
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I think you would be fine with one. A LE role for a rifle isnt like going into combat, you will have plenty of time to clean it and keep it lubed, and youre not going to be going through 200rd engagements. All rifles need a few hundred run through it to check for function. Out of 3 bolts Ive broken in my lifetime 2 of them were Colts. I dont believe in that whole tier bullshit. Nor the flavor of the month mentality this place has. This year all we hear now is Spikes, last year it was CMMG. Bushmaster was the favorite once upon a time, Stag had a following for awhile. Shit I might buy a Del-Ton, so when its their turn I can be a trendsetter. There are plenty of LE officers who would likely beg to differ that the use of their rifle isn't like "going into combat." If the bad guys are shooting back, you are in combat. To say that the whole tier thing is bullshit basically says that an AR is an AR. If they are not all the same, then there are indeed tiers. I'm just a lowly neophyte, but if I were a LEO I'd want the type of gun that gets used in the "200rd engagements" even if I will never likely have to discharge that quantity of rounds. All guns are compilation of parts, and parts break. But, I'd go with a mfg that employs tests to provide a greater liklihood that the parts won't fail. Sir, the "parts are parts" argument is just plain wrong. If you don't want to take my word for it, just ask around (hell, 90% of the posts in this thread say just that). OP, just do your research, and look around for before you settle on a purchase. There are some great deals to be had right now on some fine rifles. I'd be willing to bet that Colt is on your Dept's list of approved rifles, and as many previous posts have stated, its hard to go wrong with the Colt 6920. Good luck to you. |
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DTI isnt all that bad ( unless you talk to a bcm, LMT, COLT kool-aid drinkers ), just as reliable as next rifle, any rifle doesant matter if its $1500 rifle or $750 rifle long as its cleaned and lubed properly it should function flawlessly. Run an average $750.00 AR in a Pat Rogers or Randy Cain course for 3 to 5 days and then report back to us. I looked on Pat Rogers site but didn't see how much do his classes usually run? http://eagtactical.com/courseschedule.asp wholy crap them classes are expensive. I would love to do a class im sure it would be a lot of fun and I would learn a lot but no way I could afford that More classes |
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it only takes once for a gear failure to cost you your life. especially when that gear is what you depend on to save your life when things go bad. choose a weapon made by a reputable brand.
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LEO's aren't the same as military. I see them train every day but the reality is they won't shoot them in battle much let alone a full mag!
If you are on a budget, I would look real hard at Spikes. I own two and they are everything my Colt is and I like them better. Definitely like the company 100 times better for sure. BCM would be another good choice and no stupid blocks for FA either. Del-ton is fine, they all seem to work great but for working gun I'd get one of the two above and Colt and the horse they ride on. |
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LEO's aren't the same as military. I see them train every day but the reality is they won't shoot them in battle much let alone a full mag! If you are on a budget, I would look real hard at Spikes. I own two and they are everything my Colt is and I like them better. Definitely like the company 100 times better for sure. BCM would be another good choice and no stupid blocks for FA either. Del-ton is fine, they all seem to work great but for working gun I'd get one of the two above and Colt and the horse they ride on. If you needed full auto for a patrol rifle your dept would be able to order full auto Colts from Colt. The web in the semi auto lowers that prevents the use of a DIAS is not an issue for 99.9% of people who don't have an RDIAS. If you do hae a $10K+ RDIAS, chances are you can swing a few bucks for a machine shop to mill out the web and get to the low shelf if you wanted to use it in an S/A Colt that bad. |
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Quoted: The most reasonable answer for the patrol rifle question is Colt 6920. Aside from price, it's easy to sell administrators on it because of Colt's .mil contracts. Plus, it's arguably the most reliable fighting AR-15 variant out there. Is it "the best"? Eh... I don't like that term. But for all the criticism tossed around, it's hard to argue the 6920 as being bad for that role. If Colt is out of the question due to budget problems, check BCM, LMT, and Daniel Defense. And if those are out of the question due to budget problems, hold a fund raiser. I think "Colt 6920' is the correct answer to "I need this for work" with BCM and LMT being the "I REALLY cannot afford Colt" answers (I lack experience with DD to have an opinion one way or the other). You just aren't getting the same components and quality control with most other brands |
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Quoted: I used a bushy for years and ran a Bushy bolt and carrier for about 5 years, including through a ton of -OHMIGOD!!-carbine classes, still I think it is better to err on the side of caution when recommending a carbine for work use to someone with little to no experience. Hell for all the Bushmasters that supposedly have fallen apart in carbine classes Blackwater uses (or used) them for years under conditions a lot tougher than three days on a nice sunny range in Virginia taking a class*It's funny because we had Bushmaster's (gasp) for department issued AR's. I never recall one going down. I was allowed to carry my build on the entry team after quals. It was made out of Rock River barrel and lower with BCM BCG. Still running strong. And I use RRA FCG's. * The Blackwater Bushmasters were rebarrelled with short barrels by "a local gunsmith" or so I was told
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LEO's aren't the same as military. I see them train every day but the reality is they won't shoot them in battle much let alone a full mag! If you are on a budget, I would look real hard at Spikes. I own two and they are everything my Colt is and I like them better. Definitely like the company 100 times better for sure. BCM would be another good choice and no stupid blocks for FA either. Del-ton is fine, they all seem to work great but for working gun I'd get one of the two above and Colt and the horse they ride on. If you needed full auto for a patrol rifle your dept would be able to order full auto Colts from Colt. The web in the semi auto lowers that prevents the use of a DIAS is not an issue for 99.9% of people who don't have an RDIAS. If you do hae a $10K+ RDIAS, chances are you can swing a few bucks for a machine shop to mill out the web and get to the low shelf if you wanted to use it in an S/A Colt that bad. Sounds like he's buying it not the dept. No "Need" to make them blocked . Why the hell would you pay more then have one milled. Colt doesn't give a shit about you support those that do. |
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LEO's aren't the same as military. I see them train every day but the reality is they won't shoot them in battle much let alone a full mag! If you are on a budget, I would look real hard at Spikes. I own two and they are everything my Colt is and I like them better. Definitely like the company 100 times better for sure. BCM would be another good choice and no stupid blocks for FA either. Del-ton is fine, they all seem to work great but for working gun I'd get one of the two above and Colt and the horse they ride on. If you needed full auto for a patrol rifle your dept would be able to order full auto Colts from Colt. The web in the semi auto lowers that prevents the use of a DIAS is not an issue for 99.9% of people who don't have an RDIAS. If you do hae a $10K+ RDIAS, chances are you can swing a few bucks for a machine shop to mill out the web and get to the low shelf if you wanted to use it in an S/A Colt that bad. Sounds like he's buying it not the dept. No "Need" to make them blocked . Why the hell would you pay more then have one milled. Colt doesn't give a shit about you support those that do. You have a RDIAS? If he is buying it as a duty gun, I really don't think he is going to be adding any parts that would make it full auto. So your point is pretty much, well, pointless. |
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I have only one Del-Ton, a 1x7 twist CL M4. I am very happy with it thus far and the price point. Fit and finish is on par with others I have held/fired, maybe a bit better. Not worth much but there it is. I would buy DTI again.
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"and you're not going to be going through 200rd engagements"
Tell that to LAPD and those LEO's dealing with the drug cartel wars on the southern border. Just a matter of time before one of those 2 hour gun battles occur within our borders! As for me, I have no experience with Del-ton. My team currently uses the LWRC M6, and previously used the HK G36. I do have friends who use the Del-ton for rec use only. |
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I love del-ton...
I will be the first to say how much i think Del-tons are good(great) guns for the money... but when we're talking about life or death use... Look elsewhere. Buy the Delton to abuse on the range, take classes, and tinker with... Buy a Colt/BCM/Nov/LMT if your life depends on it... Seriously. The extra few C-notes are worth your life... If you're competent with AR's... buy a Delton, replace the B/CG and function-test the hell out of it. |
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If you go with delton, upgrade the BCG with one from DD or BCM.
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What is your department's budget and standards for approved manufacturers? What usage will it serve on a yearly basis? What environment will it be subjected to?
All the above relates to the cost vs.budget of the department, correct? |
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Don't flame me for this response/post. It is scientific.
How many AR15.com'ers have actually experienced a failure with their Del-ton? I have a few M1S's, a Del-ton and a Bushy.....no reports of anything on all 3 brands. I am having difficulty in cutting through the crap and the fact in these weekly DT threads of inquiry. My high rubber boots are on awaiting for the responses. |
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Don't flame me for this response/post. It is scientific. How many AR15.com'ers have actually experienced a failure with their Del-ton? I have a few M1S's, a Del-ton and a Bushy.....no reports of anything on all 3 brands. I am having difficulty in cutting through the crap and the fact in these weekly DT threads of inquiry. My high rubber boots are on awaiting for the responses. How many "AR15.comm'ers" actually have any kind of harsh firing schedule? How many ever use their rifle without the assistance of a bench? But I'm sure there are plenty willing to proclaim their cobbled together hobby guns are "just as good as" professional grade equipment because they have 200 rounds through them with no failures |
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Quoted: Go out and shoot your rifles. If you want a quality carbine at a very reasonable price buy Del Ton or any other SO CALLED lower tier rifle. If you want to pay more for what you believe to be more then buy your SO CALLED higher end rifle. If you don't like what I like too bad. Guess what, I like what you like but I won't pay what I believe to be overblown pricing. Quoted: Don't flame me for this response/post. It is scientific. How many AR15.com'ers have actually experienced a failure with their Del-ton? I have a few M1S's, a Del-ton and a Bushy.....no reports of anything on all 3 brands. I am having difficulty in cutting through the crap and the fact in these weekly DT threads of inquiry. My high rubber boots are on awaiting for the responses. How many "AR15.comm'ers" actually have any kind of harsh firing schedule? How many ever use their rifle without the assistance of a bench? Probably the same amount of ARFCOMers who put their "Upper Tier" carbines through a harsh firing schedule. But I'm sure there are plenty willing to proclaim their cobbled together hobby guns are "just as good as" professional grade equipment because they have 200 rounds through them with no failures I'm sure there are plenty of self proclaimed operators who will blow their stack about being called on it. If you want to prove me wrong come down for a weekend. I've got the room, food and drink. You've just got to get here. |
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Go out and shoot your rifles. If you want a quality carbine at a very reasonable price buy Del Ton or any other SO CALLED lower tier rifle. If you want to pay more for what you believe to be more then buy your SO CALLED higher end rifle. If you don't like what I like too bad. Guess what, I like what you like but I won't pay what I believe to be overblown pricing.
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Don't flame me for this response/post. It is scientific. How many AR15.com'ers have actually experienced a failure with their Del-ton? I have a few M1S's, a Del-ton and a Bushy.....no reports of anything on all 3 brands. I am having difficulty in cutting through the crap and the fact in these weekly DT threads of inquiry. My high rubber boots are on awaiting for the responses. How many "AR15.comm'ers" actually have any kind of harsh firing schedule? How many ever use their rifle without the assistance of a bench? Probably the same amount of ARFCOMers who put their "Upper Tier" carbines through a harsh firing schedule. But I'm sure there are plenty willing to proclaim their cobbled together hobby guns are "just as good as" professional grade equipment because they have 200 rounds through them with no failures I'm sure there are plenty of self proclaimed operators who will blow their stack about being called on it. If you want to prove me wrong come down for a weekend. I've got the room, food and drink. You've just got to get here. Buy junk if you want, but don't recommend it to someone who is using it for duty. |
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