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Dep805
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Posted: 11/29/2010 4:01:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/29/2010 4:21:12 PM EST by Dep805]
I'm kinda green in the AR field, so I always have questions. Bought myself a AR-10 (Armalite.) Now I'm looking for a AR15. I see DPMS Oracles selling for $500-600 new in the box. This seems awfully cheap. Any one know if they are any good. How does DPMS compare to others. My first inclination was to hold out for a Armalite AR15. I always try to keep re-sale value in mind too. But, I don't want to miss out on a good deal either. What say you AR gurus?
jerz_subbie
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Posted: 11/29/2010 4:24:16 PM EST
Never heard of the Oracle before but it seems to be just a Sportical w/ std A3 upper receiver rather than the bulky slickside.

Yes $500-600 is pretty cheap but I'd prefer to go with something like a Spike's M4LE($760) or one of the many rifles you could "build" yourself for $500-600 using the 9pgs worth of deals posted in the tacked thread above.
"When will the economy get better?" When you start spending!
Heli_Pilot
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Posted: 11/29/2010 4:30:38 PM EST
I would definitely pass. Save up another $200 and get yourself a quality rifle like a Spikes for $800.
fuzzy03cls
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Posted: 11/29/2010 4:52:18 PM EST
I can no longer recommend anything DPMS. They are ok, & will do the job fine for most people. I don't feel there's anything wrong with them. Mine was a great shooter & I know tons of people that are happy. However price points have come down. For only a little more $ you can get a better featured AR.
Paul59
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Posted: 11/29/2010 5:37:03 PM EST
There's nothing wrong with DPMS. They've been around a long time and still going strong. They produce good rifles at a fair price.
OlCrow
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Posted: 11/29/2010 5:47:05 PM EST
Forget the DPMS and get another...

- Proud Supporter - WOUNDED WARRIOR PROJECT

I miss the days when computers were difficult for stupid people to operate.
~Lumpy 9/25/2010
jerz_subbie
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Posted: 11/29/2010 6:08:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By Paul59:
There's nothing wrong with DPMS. They've been around a long time and still going strong. They produce good rifles at a fair price.


BLUE: correct

RED: That's debatable. This is the reason the question of "should I buy this DPMS" even comes up. Sure they make a decent rifle that will function but they are not priced as to give you the best bang for your buck. Just because it's cheaper does not mean it's a fair price for the given product. As I stated you can build a better AR for the same price, and it's very simple to do so.
"When will the economy get better?" When you start spending!
TJRoush
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Posted: 11/29/2010 6:10:37 PM EST
DPMS is fine, I had an Oracle, it was a great rifle. But don't listen to me as I also love and shoot Olympic AR's...I will get stoned to death at the mere mention of that brand.
Paul59
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Posted: 11/29/2010 6:19:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/29/2010 6:24:06 PM EST by Paul59]
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By Paul59:
There's nothing wrong with DPMS. They've been around a long time and still going strong. They produce good rifles at a fair price.


BLUE: correct

RED: That's debatable. This is the reason the question of "should I buy this DPMS" even comes up. Sure they make a decent rifle that will function but they are not priced as to give you the best bang for your buck. Just because it's cheaper does not mean it's a fair price for the given product. As I stated you can build a better AR for the same price, and it's very simple to do so.



You know what they say about opinions, right?

I wonder what would be said if he had asked about a Noveske for $2500? No, nevermind... I know what would be said here.
warpig8654
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Posted: 11/30/2010 2:35:23 AM EST
DPMS? No.
"You can take the man out of the Marine Corps but you can never take the Marine Corps out of the man"

"If I wanted your opinion I would give it to you" - Gunny

Jesus is my lord & savior.
jerz_subbie
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Posted: 11/30/2010 7:19:33 AM EST
Originally Posted By Paul59:
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By Paul59:
There's nothing wrong with DPMS. They've been around a long time and still going strong. They produce good rifles at a fair price.


BLUE: correct

RED: That's debatable. This is the reason the question of "should I buy this DPMS" even comes up. Sure they make a decent rifle that will function but they are not priced as to give you the best bang for your buck. Just because it's cheaper does not mean it's a fair price for the given product. As I stated you can build a better AR for the same price, and it's very simple to do so.



You know what they say about opinions, right?

I wonder what would be said if he had asked about a Noveske for $2500? No, nevermind... I know what would be said here.


Opinions? Yes... Exactly my point! The majority, if not all, rational people here would agree that DPMS is overpriced for what it is in the current market. On the flip side, as you proposed, a Noveske for $2500 is probably not the best bang for the buck(read: value), which is why I don't own one. If I did want a Noveske I'd take advantage of their free blem lower deal and build the exact rifle for roughly $350 less (this was discussed in another thread a few weeks back).

Maybe you should go back and re-read my post. I never said there was anything wrong with DPMS as far as quality. There are simply better options for the money (that is not opinion).
"When will the economy get better?" When you start spending!
Paul59
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Posted: 11/30/2010 8:07:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/30/2010 8:11:23 AM EST by Paul59]
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By Paul59:
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By Paul59:
There's nothing wrong with DPMS. They've been around a long time and still going strong. They produce good rifles at a fair price.


BLUE: correct

RED: That's debatable. This is the reason the question of "should I buy this DPMS" even comes up. Sure they make a decent rifle that will function but they are not priced as to give you the best bang for your buck. Just because it's cheaper does not mean it's a fair price for the given product. As I stated you can build a better AR for the same price, and it's very simple to do so.



You know what they say about opinions, right?

I wonder what would be said if he had asked about a Noveske for $2500? No, nevermind... I know what would be said here.


Opinions? Yes... Exactly my point! The majority, if not all, rational people here would agree that DPMS is overpriced for what it is in the current market. On the flip side, as you proposed, a Noveske for $2500 is probably not the best bang for the buck(read: value), which is why I don't own one. If I did want a Noveske I'd take advantage of their free blem lower deal and build the exact rifle for roughly $350 less (this was discussed in another thread a few weeks back).

Maybe you should go back and re-read my post. I never said there was anything wrong with DPMS as far as quality. There are simply better options for the money (that is not opinion).



A lot of people here would agree. If it isn't a Noveske, LaRue, BCM or even a Spikes, it is doomed to be dumped on.

badhand1
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Posted: 11/30/2010 8:13:53 AM EST
Buy the spikes M4LE as mentioned above. It is a excellant weapon.
mekell
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Posted: 11/30/2010 8:15:57 AM EST
I have RRA ar15 and put a lower kit from DPMS. All parts fit and function with no faults. HOWEVER I am not satisfied with the trigger that came with the kit. (see my post) I would not put their trigger in another of my shooters. Works fine but is really rough. Spen some dough and get a premium trigger group.
OlCrow
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Posted: 11/30/2010 8:31:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/30/2010 8:36:58 AM EST by OlCrow]

Originally Posted By Paul59:
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By Paul59:
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By Paul59:
There's nothing wrong with DPMS. They've been around a long time and still going strong. They produce good rifles at a fair price.


BLUE: correct

RED: That's debatable. This is the reason the question of "should I buy this DPMS" even comes up. Sure they make a decent rifle that will function but they are not priced as to give you the best bang for your buck. Just because it's cheaper does not mean it's a fair price for the given product. As I stated you can build a better AR for the same price, and it's very simple to do so.



You know what they say about opinions, right?

I wonder what would be said if he had asked about a Noveske for $2500? No, nevermind... I know what would be said here.


Opinions? Yes... Exactly my point! The majority, if not all, rational people here would agree that DPMS is overpriced for what it is in the current market. On the flip side, as you proposed, a Noveske for $2500 is probably not the best bang for the buck(read: value), which is why I don't own one. If I did want a Noveske I'd take advantage of their free blem lower deal and build the exact rifle for roughly $350 less (this was discussed in another thread a few weeks back).

Maybe you should go back and re-read my post. I never said there was anything wrong with DPMS as far as quality. There are simply better options for the money (that is not opinion).



A lot of people here would agree. If it isn't a Noveske, LaRue, BCM or even a Spikes, it is doomed to be dumped on.


So...you are a butt hurt DPMS owner, get over it.

You keep saying here as if only this forum has people that don't cheer for DPMS. Here's a suggestion for you, find a forum that's full of love for the lesser brands and sign up. You can all pat eachother on the back and tell eachother how good those DPMS AR's are, much better than those more expensive POS Colt, BCM, DD, Noveske, LMT and LaRue.


- Proud Supporter - WOUNDED WARRIOR PROJECT

I miss the days when computers were difficult for stupid people to operate.
~Lumpy 9/25/2010
wolverine05
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Posted: 11/30/2010 8:37:17 AM EST
The prices currenlty offered by top tier manufacturers (Colt, BCM, DD, etc.) are too attractive to settle for something less. If all you have is $500 or $600 right now, I would recommend that you save up a bit more and wait until you can buy something better.
Rhoades
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Posted: 11/30/2010 8:45:27 AM EST
Just to fan the flames. Our Dept has numerous DPMS rifles on the SWAT team as well as in use on patrol.
WMurderface
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Posted: 11/30/2010 8:53:56 AM EST
It is what it is

Whether you are buying your first AR rifle, or need an affordable yet accurate plinking gun, the Panther Oracle™ is for you. Built to bridge the gap between the Sporting and Tactical markets, this introductory level carbine features a 16” light contour barrel, an A3 Upper receiver with Picatinny Rail, heat dissipating GlacierGuards™ and a collapsible, six-position Pardus™ buttstock. Altogether, it weighs in at only 6.6 lbs.
Rebel souls, deserters we are called
Chose a gun, and threw away the sun
Paul59
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Posted: 11/30/2010 8:56:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By OlCrow:

Originally Posted By Paul59:
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By Paul59:
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By Paul59:
There's nothing wrong with DPMS. They've been around a long time and still going strong. They produce good rifles at a fair price.


BLUE: correct

RED: That's debatable. This is the reason the question of "should I buy this DPMS" even comes up. Sure they make a decent rifle that will function but they are not priced as to give you the best bang for your buck. Just because it's cheaper does not mean it's a fair price for the given product. As I stated you can build a better AR for the same price, and it's very simple to do so.



You know what they say about opinions, right?

I wonder what would be said if he had asked about a Noveske for $2500? No, nevermind... I know what would be said here.


Opinions? Yes... Exactly my point! The majority, if not all, rational people here would agree that DPMS is overpriced for what it is in the current market. On the flip side, as you proposed, a Noveske for $2500 is probably not the best bang for the buck(read: value), which is why I don't own one. If I did want a Noveske I'd take advantage of their free blem lower deal and build the exact rifle for roughly $350 less (this was discussed in another thread a few weeks back).

Maybe you should go back and re-read my post. I never said there was anything wrong with DPMS as far as quality. There are simply better options for the money (that is not opinion).



A lot of people here would agree. If it isn't a Noveske, LaRue, BCM or even a Spikes, it is doomed to be dumped on.


So...you are a butt hurt DPMS owner, get over it.

You keep saying here as if only this forum has people that don't cheer for DPMS. Here's a suggestion for you, find a forum that's full of love for the lesser brands and sign up. You can all pat eachother on the back and tell eachother how good those DPMS AR's are, much better than those more expensive POS Colt, BCM, DD, Noveske, LMT and LaRue.




Thanks for proving my point.


FYI, I prefer BCM. I just don't dump on others.
wolverine05
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Posted: 11/30/2010 9:16:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By Paul59:
Originally Posted By OlCrow:

Originally Posted By Paul59:
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By Paul59:
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By Paul59:
There's nothing wrong with DPMS. They've been around a long time and still going strong. They produce good rifles at a fair price.


BLUE: correct

RED: That's debatable. This is the reason the question of "should I buy this DPMS" even comes up. Sure they make a decent rifle that will function but they are not priced as to give you the best bang for your buck. Just because it's cheaper does not mean it's a fair price for the given product. As I stated you can build a better AR for the same price, and it's very simple to do so.



You know what they say about opinions, right?

I wonder what would be said if he had asked about a Noveske for $2500? No, nevermind... I know what would be said here.


Opinions? Yes... Exactly my point! The majority, if not all, rational people here would agree that DPMS is overpriced for what it is in the current market. On the flip side, as you proposed, a Noveske for $2500 is probably not the best bang for the buck(read: value), which is why I don't own one. If I did want a Noveske I'd take advantage of their free blem lower deal and build the exact rifle for roughly $350 less (this was discussed in another thread a few weeks back).

Maybe you should go back and re-read my post. I never said there was anything wrong with DPMS as far as quality. There are simply better options for the money (that is not opinion).



A lot of people here would agree. If it isn't a Noveske, LaRue, BCM or even a Spikes, it is doomed to be dumped on.


So...you are a butt hurt DPMS owner, get over it.

You keep saying here as if only this forum has people that don't cheer for DPMS. Here's a suggestion for you, find a forum that's full of love for the lesser brands and sign up. You can all pat eachother on the back and tell eachother how good those DPMS AR's are, much better than those more expensive POS Colt, BCM, DD, Noveske, LMT and LaRue.




Thanks for proving my point.


FYI, I prefer BCM. I just don't dump on others.


It's not about "dumping" on other brands, it's about giving relevant, useful, feedback to someone who is relatively new to the AR world. When someone asks whether the DPMS Oracle is "good," he should be told the truth. It may be good compared to a sharpened stick, but it is not good compared to more quality AR mfgs. The shortcomings of DMPS are well documented and are nothing new. If you feel that someone is out of line when he states that DPMS is not a quality choice, then simply tell us why it is a quality rifle. Tell us why it should be held in the same regard as Colt, BCM, DD, Noveske, etc., etc. If it is your opinion that poorly staked carrier keys, lesser quality barrel steel, batch tested parts, etc. make for a good rifle then simply say so. Myself, I will continue to recommend that folks spend a bit more and go with a rifle from a mfg that does things right. There are no guarantees that any rifle will never fail, but I want to do what I can to make sure to reduce the liklihood of failures - especially if I ever need to call upon the rifle to defend my life or the lives of my loved ones.
Paul59
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Posted: 11/30/2010 10:01:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/30/2010 10:08:20 AM EST by Paul59]
Originally Posted By wolverine05:
Originally Posted By Paul59:
Originally Posted By OlCrow:

Originally Posted By Paul59:
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By Paul59:
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By Paul59:
There's nothing wrong with DPMS. They've been around a long time and still going strong. They produce good rifles at a fair price.


BLUE: correct

RED: That's debatable. This is the reason the question of "should I buy this DPMS" even comes up. Sure they make a decent rifle that will function but they are not priced as to give you the best bang for your buck. Just because it's cheaper does not mean it's a fair price for the given product. As I stated you can build a better AR for the same price, and it's very simple to do so.



You know what they say about opinions, right?

I wonder what would be said if he had asked about a Noveske for $2500? No, nevermind... I know what would be said here.


Opinions? Yes... Exactly my point! The majority, if not all, rational people here would agree that DPMS is overpriced for what it is in the current market. On the flip side, as you proposed, a Noveske for $2500 is probably not the best bang for the buck(read: value), which is why I don't own one. If I did want a Noveske I'd take advantage of their free blem lower deal and build the exact rifle for roughly $350 less (this was discussed in another thread a few weeks back).

Maybe you should go back and re-read my post. I never said there was anything wrong with DPMS as far as quality. There are simply better options for the money (that is not opinion).



A lot of people here would agree. If it isn't a Noveske, LaRue, BCM or even a Spikes, it is doomed to be dumped on.


So...you are a butt hurt DPMS owner, get over it.

You keep saying here as if only this forum has people that don't cheer for DPMS. Here's a suggestion for you, find a forum that's full of love for the lesser brands and sign up. You can all pat eachother on the back and tell eachother how good those DPMS AR's are, much better than those more expensive POS Colt, BCM, DD, Noveske, LMT and LaRue.




Thanks for proving my point.


FYI, I prefer BCM. I just don't dump on others.


It's not about "dumping" on other brands, it's about giving relevant, useful, feedback to someone who is relatively new to the AR world. When someone asks whether the DPMS Oracle is "good," he should be told the truth. It may be good compared to a sharpened stick, but it is not good compared to more quality AR mfgs. The shortcomings of DMPS are well documented and are nothing new. If you feel that someone is out of line when he states that DPMS is not a quality choice, then simply tell us why it is a quality rifle. Tell us why it should be held in the same regard as Colt, BCM, DD, Noveske, etc., etc. If it is your opinion that poorly staked carrier keys, lesser quality barrel steel, batch tested parts, etc. make for a good rifle then simply say so. Myself, I will continue to recommend that folks spend a bit more and go with a rifle from a mfg that does things right. There are no guarantees that any rifle will never fail, but I want to do what I can to make sure to reduce the liklihood of failures - especially if I ever need to call upon the rifle to defend my life or the lives of my loved ones.


Jeez! Read the thread before you attempt to put words in my mouth.

YES!!! There are better and then there is best. The OP is asking "good or no" for a NIB DPMS AR for $500. I wouldn't say no. He may not have more money or the facilities and tools to build one.

"...compared to a sharpened stick"? That's a little harsh.
PimpedGSG
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Posted: 11/30/2010 10:12:14 AM EST
Originally Posted By Rhoades:
Just to fan the flames. Our Dept has numerous DPMS rifles on the SWAT team as well as in use on patrol.


What does that mean? As a retired Tactical officer, we shot our MP's and AR's in the line of duty rarely if ever...they were range queens for the most part. Just because your Dept. cheaped out does not mean they are adequate service rifles. They very well may be but for the price points seen today, unless the OP was getting this weapon for 300.00, he'd be silly not to go with a better gun for likely less than a 100.00 or 200.00 more for what the DPMS is going for. As far as I know, Spikes is a Mil Spec weapon and the price is very good as well.

wolverine05
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Posted: 11/30/2010 10:33:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By Paul59:
Originally Posted By wolverine05:
Originally Posted By Paul59:
Originally Posted By OlCrow:

Originally Posted By Paul59:
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By Paul59:
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By Paul59:
There's nothing wrong with DPMS. They've been around a long time and still going strong. They produce good rifles at a fair price.


BLUE: correct

RED: That's debatable. This is the reason the question of "should I buy this DPMS" even comes up. Sure they make a decent rifle that will function but they are not priced as to give you the best bang for your buck. Just because it's cheaper does not mean it's a fair price for the given product. As I stated you can build a better AR for the same price, and it's very simple to do so.



You know what they say about opinions, right?

I wonder what would be said if he had asked about a Noveske for $2500? No, nevermind... I know what would be said here.


Opinions? Yes... Exactly my point! The majority, if not all, rational people here would agree that DPMS is overpriced for what it is in the current market. On the flip side, as you proposed, a Noveske for $2500 is probably not the best bang for the buck(read: value), which is why I don't own one. If I did want a Noveske I'd take advantage of their free blem lower deal and build the exact rifle for roughly $350 less (this was discussed in another thread a few weeks back).

Maybe you should go back and re-read my post. I never said there was anything wrong with DPMS as far as quality. There are simply better options for the money (that is not opinion).



A lot of people here would agree. If it isn't a Noveske, LaRue, BCM or even a Spikes, it is doomed to be dumped on.


So...you are a butt hurt DPMS owner, get over it.

You keep saying here as if only this forum has people that don't cheer for DPMS. Here's a suggestion for you, find a forum that's full of love for the lesser brands and sign up. You can all pat eachother on the back and tell eachother how good those DPMS AR's are, much better than those more expensive POS Colt, BCM, DD, Noveske, LMT and LaRue.




Thanks for proving my point.


FYI, I prefer BCM. I just don't dump on others.


It's not about "dumping" on other brands, it's about giving relevant, useful, feedback to someone who is relatively new to the AR world. When someone asks whether the DPMS Oracle is "good," he should be told the truth. It may be good compared to a sharpened stick, but it is not good compared to more quality AR mfgs. The shortcomings of DMPS are well documented and are nothing new. If you feel that someone is out of line when he states that DPMS is not a quality choice, then simply tell us why it is a quality rifle. Tell us why it should be held in the same regard as Colt, BCM, DD, Noveske, etc., etc. If it is your opinion that poorly staked carrier keys, lesser quality barrel steel, batch tested parts, etc. make for a good rifle then simply say so. Myself, I will continue to recommend that folks spend a bit more and go with a rifle from a mfg that does things right. There are no guarantees that any rifle will never fail, but I want to do what I can to make sure to reduce the liklihood of failures - especially if I ever need to call upon the rifle to defend my life or the lives of my loved ones.


Jeez! Read the thread before you attempt to put words in my mouth.

YES!!! There are better and then there is best. The OP is asking "good or no" for a NIB DPMS AR for $500. I wouldn't say no. He may not have more money or the facilities and tools to build one.

"...compared to a sharpened stick"? That's a little harsh.


I did read your initial post - "There's nothing wrong with DPMS. They've been around a long time and still going strong. They produce good rifles at a fair price." With all due respect, your post does not include any support for your conclusion. Further, I would disagree with the assertion that "there is nothing wrong with DPMS." I think there are a few things "wrong" with DPMS, and those things are rather well known. You are correct that my "sharpened stick" comment may be a bit harsh, but I still strongly recommend that that the OP pass on the DPMS and save up for something better. The price difference just is not that large.
fuzzy03cls
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Posted: 11/30/2010 10:34:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By Rhoades:
Just to fan the flames. Our Dept has numerous DPMS rifles on the SWAT team as well as in use on patrol.


I know some FL Pd's that also issue them.
Paul59
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Posted: 11/30/2010 10:43:52 AM EST
Some of you guys talk like they will crumble into a pile of worthless crap as soon as you take them out of the box. Hilarious!
Personally, I wouldn't buy a DPMS. But, to call them junk is elitist BS.

It would be interesting to know how many have actually had a failure or are simply repeating what they have read.
bowslngr
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Posted: 11/30/2010 10:57:56 AM EST
If you are looking for a sporting rifle, for $500 that rifle is a steal.
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