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schwome
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Posted: 1/28/2010 10:39:12 PM
[Last Edit: 1/28/2010 10:41:39 PM by schwome]

THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT
I just sent out my 16" Bushy M4 profile barrel to Adco to get chopped to 14.5" W/ Vortex, M4 cuts, & shaved FSB=$140. Well I may have to add this to my order now. I wonder how this would look on an M4 profile? I guess I would just get "front of gas block" done & they would have to skip over the M203 cut? any ideas? Think it would look wierd?

O crap first ever page ownage...Well if I do get my barrel dimmpled, I will post pics as soon as I get it back. They should recieve it on Fri, so I guess I will have it back by next Fridayish...
cop1211
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Posted: 1/28/2010 11:11:20 PM
My dimpled Noveske 16 stainless should be here shortly from MSTN, they out source the dimple work.
schwome
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Posted: 1/28/2010 11:16:06 PM
Well I'm gettin it done, so I will post pics when I get it back next week
Xskier45
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Posted: 1/29/2010 3:30:09 AM
That's awesome you guys are doing this service...I love the dimpled barrels! I do have one question though which is illustrated below...It looks like your spacing/structure is a bit different than the dimples I'm used to seeing. Would it be possible to have them dimpled more like the way on the left if desired, or are you only set up to do it in the pattern you have shown?

Remman
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Posted: 1/29/2010 10:46:03 AM
What is the smallest diameter barrel is this an option for?
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quantim2
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Posted: 1/29/2010 11:30:29 AM
Originally Posted By Xskier45:
That's awesome you guys are doing this service...I love the dimpled barrels! I do have one question though which is illustrated below...It looks like your spacing/structure is a bit different than the dimples I'm used to seeing. Would it be possible to have them dimpled more like the way on the left if desired, or are you only set up to do it in the pattern you have shown?

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l154/mikecleonard/Untitled2.jpg


This.

IMO it doesn't look as good when the dimples are in straight lines. They look much better when they are staggered.
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sgtlmj
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Posted: 1/29/2010 11:45:15 AM
Originally Posted By Xskier45:
That's awesome you guys are doing this service...I love the dimpled barrels! I do have one question though which is illustrated below...It looks like your spacing/structure is a bit different than the dimples I'm used to seeing. Would it be possible to have them dimpled more like the way on the left if desired, or are you only set up to do it in the pattern you have shown?

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l154/mikecleonard/Untitled2.jpg


Excellent job on this comparison pic! If they are chucking the bbl up in a CNC mill, it doesn't seem like tightening up the pattern would be that difficult. It's basically the same pattern, just rotated 90deg and tightened up a bit.
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GreenM4Guy
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Posted: 1/29/2010 12:27:33 PM
We are only doing it as shown. Sorry
I threaded your barrel.

Oh and Contoured and reparked it.
Mr_Harry
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Posted: 1/29/2010 12:44:35 PM
Hmmmmmmm

Time to fire up the Mill

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GearHead_1
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Posted: 1/29/2010 5:16:51 PM
Glad to see another industry partner doing this. I haven't seen one first hand but the picture shown doesn't look quite as nice as some of the others I've seen. I'm not talking about the machine marks but the pattern. Since this is a visual plus only I probably wouldn't buy this pattern. Not that my opinion matters but it seems like some of the other posters are seeing the same thing.
Tortious
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Posted: 1/29/2010 5:50:03 PM
Originally Posted By GreenM4Guy:
Originally Posted By jcrowl:
ADCO does it for like $5.00


Sorry, but we are not currently, nor do we plan to offer this service.

I think what jcrowl meant was dimpling for gasblocks.



After thinking abou it, and dimpling a test barrel today. Yeah we'll do that.


Not to rain on any parades, but there was a similar thread on here about a year ago. I think it Knight's Armament may have a patent on the barrel dimpling. Yes, I know that sounds silly. That's exactly what the thread was talking about. You might want to run this past your lawyer.


LINK

In Relevant Part:
United States Patent # 7,013,592
Olson , et al. March 21, 2006
––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Guns with exterior surface configured barrels

Abstract
Gas-operated automatic and semi-automatic guns are improved by providing their barrels with unique exterior surface configurations to reduce the weight of their barrels while retaining the barrels' original stiffness and to cause the barrels to dissipate heat faster.

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Inventors: Olson; Douglas D. (Vero Beach, FL), Knight, Jr.; C. Reed (Vero Beach, FL)
Assignee: Knight's Armament Company (Titusville, FL)

Appl. No.: 10/693,181
Filed: October 27, 2003

What is claimed is:

1. A gas-operated automatic or semi-automatic gun comprising a barrel having a breech section defined by a breech peripheral surface plus a muzzle section defined by a muzzle peripheral surface, said breech section having a longitudinal portion of said breech peripheral surface encircled with an array of concave depressions each defined by a depression opening, selected from circular openings and oblong openings, of predetermined area in said breech peripheral surface and of predetermined maximum depth, said longitudinal portion having a first peripheral surface area A1 before inclusion of said concave depressions and the combined surface areas of said concave depressions and the remaining surface area of said first peripheral surface area after inclusion of said concave depressions having a second peripheral surface area A2, and the ratio A2/A1 is between about 1.17 and 1.42.
cchurchi
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Posted: 1/29/2010 5:55:04 PM
Originally Posted By Tortious:
Originally Posted By GreenM4Guy:
Originally Posted By jcrowl:
ADCO does it for like $5.00


Sorry, but we are not currently, nor do we plan to offer this service.

I think what jcrowl meant was dimpling for gasblocks.



After thinking abou it, and dimpling a test barrel today. Yeah we'll do that.


Not to rain on any parades, but there was a similar thread on here about a year ago. I think it Knight's Armament may have a patent on the barrel dimpling. Yes, I know that sounds silly. That's exactly what the thread was talking about. You might want to run this past your lawyer.


LINK

In Relevant Part:
United States Patent # 7,013,592
Olson , et al. March 21, 2006
––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Guns with exterior surface configured barrels

Abstract
Gas-operated automatic and semi-automatic guns are improved by providing their barrels with unique exterior surface configurations to reduce the weight of their barrels while retaining the barrels' original stiffness and to cause the barrels to dissipate heat faster.

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Inventors: Olson; Douglas D. (Vero Beach, FL), Knight, Jr.; C. Reed (Vero Beach, FL)
Assignee: Knight's Armament Company (Titusville, FL)

Appl. No.: 10/693,181
Filed: October 27, 2003

What is claimed is:

1. A gas-operated automatic or semi-automatic gun comprising a barrel having a breech section defined by a breech peripheral surface plus a muzzle section defined by a muzzle peripheral surface, said breech section having a longitudinal portion of said breech peripheral surface encircled with an array of concave depressions each defined by a depression opening, selected from circular openings and oblong openings, of predetermined area in said breech peripheral surface and of predetermined maximum depth, said longitudinal portion having a first peripheral surface area A1 before inclusion of said concave depressions and the combined surface areas of said concave depressions and the remaining surface area of said first peripheral surface area after inclusion of said concave depressions having a second peripheral surface area A2, and the ratio A2/A1 is between about 1.17 and 1.42.



Well, one way or another, my Noveske CQB is getting the dimple treatment. Where's me dremmil???
crackedcornish
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Posted: 1/29/2010 6:00:15 PM
[Last Edit: 1/29/2010 6:08:30 PM by crackedcornish]
how does this pattern compare to what DEZ Arms calls "Hole in One"

the pics on their site aren't very good
http://www.shop.dezarms.com/product.sc?productId=68&categoryId=13


mkellett
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Posted: 1/29/2010 9:57:40 PM
I don't know who DEZ is, or if it's the same guy, but there was a dealer at the SAR show in Phoenix in December selling dimpled barrels, and they were just plain fugly. The machining was very rough and it appeared the dimples were cut using a drill bit in a drill press rather than a ball mill in a mill or lathe. Lots of tool marks and the pattern was no where near symetrical.

Why dimpling instead of longitudinal fluting? I think that will boil down to a personal aesthetic choice mostly. However I would say that fluting of any variety has earned it's reputation based on its merits and of all the "ninja" stuff that gets done to the rifles displayed on this board, fluting has a better return on investment than many other modifications.
rav3nwulfe
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Posted: 1/30/2010 11:12:06 AM
Originally Posted By Xskier45:
That's awesome you guys are doing this service...I love the dimpled barrels! I do have one question though which is illustrated below...It looks like your spacing/structure is a bit different than the dimples I'm used to seeing. Would it be possible to have them dimpled more like the way on the left if desired, or are you only set up to do it in the pattern you have shown?

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l154/mikecleonard/Untitled2.jpg


+1 on this.

Seems like the pattern on the right is just flutes that aren't connected. The pattern on the left look like it removes more of the barrel thus more of the weight. If I were to get the pattern done on the right I would just get my barrel fluted.

ADCO, is there a difference in weight savings between the fluting and the dimpling?

Also any of you engineers, does the dimpling give more surface area than the fluting? probably negligible, but just curious.
Inverted_Polarity
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Posted: 1/30/2010 1:49:53 PM
I can see the advantages of barrel dimpling in that it decreases the weight and increases surface area which should aid in cooling the barrel.

Also, considering the tight packing of the dimples (KAC dimpling, not ADCO dimpling), it will have a greater surface area than standard fluting. The surface area should be greater also because of the fact that a sphere (or half-sphere in this case) gives maximum surface area (as opposed to other shapes) per cross section.

But I do have a concern about the accuracy of the dimpled barrels. How does dimpling affect the harmonics? Is the barrel more rigid or less rigid? Due the to massive amount of machining-induced stress introduced to the barrel by dimpling, does the POI (point of impact) shift as the barrel heats up? Those manufactures or gunsmiths that do dimpling, do they stress relieve the barrel after the dimpling machining process?

Lain
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Posted: 1/30/2010 3:19:12 PM
Originally Posted By Inverted_Polarity:
I can see the advantages of barrel dimpling in that it decreases the weight and increases surface area which should aid in cooling the barrel.

Also, considering the tight packing of the dimples (KAC dimpling, not ADCO dimpling), it will have a greater surface area than standard fluting. The surface area should be greater also because of the fact that a sphere (or half-sphere in this case) gives maximum surface area (as opposed to other shapes) per cross section.

But I do have a concern about the accuracy of the dimpled barrels. How does dimpling affect the harmonics? Is the barrel more rigid or less rigid? Due the to massive amount of machining-induced stress introduced to the barrel by dimpling, does the POI (point of impact) shift as the barrel heats up? Those manufactures or gunsmiths that do dimpling, do they stress relieve the barrel after the dimpling machining process?



I would think ideally one would want the barrel dimpled before being rifled so as to avoid accuracy problems.
new-arguy
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Posted: 1/31/2010 12:04:38 AM
I remember reading somewhere that dimpling offered advantages over fluting in terms of stress on the barrel when machining. I have no idea myself, but I do recall reading this as being one of the reasons KAC started doing it in the first place.

In all honesty, I got it on my barrels because I thought it was pretty fricken cool and was yet one more thing done to barrels on my KAC rifles to give them a little more KAC. I'll see if I cant get someone from KAC in here to answer some of these questions.
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dontgiveahoot
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Posted: 1/31/2010 12:07:20 AM
[Last Edit: 1/31/2010 12:08:26 AM by dontgiveahoot]

Originally Posted By unclemoak:
Did some one say barrel dimples?



I have to know. What front sight block is that?

ETA: I'm guessing it's KAC, but I can't find it on their website. Am I blind?
new-arguy
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Posted: 1/31/2010 12:22:17 AM
Yes, it is KAC. It has never really been offered on any of their commercial guns, but has been offered on their SR16 Mil and LE guns. The only place I know of to get one of them at the moment is through MSTN. He offeres to have them pinned on his custom uppers.
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KevinB
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Posted: 2/1/2010 1:18:58 PM
[Last Edit: 2/1/2010 1:32:25 PM by KevinB]


We dimple our SR-25 EM Carbine barrels - and chrome line them, roughtly a .75 MOA gun. I've heated up a few and not noticed any adverse accuracy affects.

We have dimpled some SR-15 barrels but current these are not standard.

I will add more in a bit, I am bit busy and posting more as a placeholder.
www.knightarmco.com


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Holden
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Posted: 2/1/2010 8:18:35 PM
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Ravelo
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Posted: 2/2/2010 8:43:52 PM
[Last Edit: 2/2/2010 8:46:54 PM by Ravelo]
Originally Posted By Xskier45:
That's awesome you guys are doing this service...I love the dimpled barrels! I do have one question though which is illustrated below...It looks like your spacing/structure is a bit different than the dimples I'm used to seeing. Would it be possible to have them dimpled more like the way on the left if desired, or are you only set up to do it in the pattern you have shown?

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l154/mikecleonard/Untitled2.jpg



While looking at the two dimple patterns above, I realize that there may be structural differences between them, affecting longitudinal rigidity.

In ADCO's version, the rows are lined up so that there are uninterrupted segments of metal running longitudinally towards the muzzle.

In the SR47 version depicted in the photo above the dimples are arranged in a tightly-packed helical pattern that lacks an uninterrupted portion in any direction; other iterations of the KAC pattern are more loosely spaced, giving spirally arranged strips of non-dimpled metal.

Would the RKI's out there (Really Knowledgeable Individuals such as metallurgists, barrel makers, machinists, not posers), kindly weigh in on any structural differences between the two patterns vis a vis rigidity?

Regards,

Jorge
Saryan
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Posted: 2/3/2010 6:32:36 PM
I would like a before and after weight comparison. Im all about saving some weight where I can but how much am I spending per ounce? Thanks!
new-arguy
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Posted: 2/4/2010 12:07:59 AM
I'll admit, some of you guys are talking way over my head... If a weight per dollar ratio is your bottom line, I think fluting or just getting a lighter barrel to start with will be more attractive to you than the dimples.

I have two dimpled barrels (both Noveske), done KAC style, and I'm sorry I don't have better data to share. Both of these barrels were pretty well used by the time I got them dimpled. One is 16 and the other 10.5". Both are quite accurate both before and after the dimples. I can certainly tell you I have not noticed a DECREASE in accuracy post-dimpling. I can tell you that I did notice a decrease in weight. Not substantial by any means, but noticable.

I would guess the KAC style of staggered bands from one end to the other reduces more weight than the other process which staggers lines from one end of the barrel to the other. Simply because it appears to remove more material. How much is anyones guess.
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