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rushca01
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Posted: 12/18/2009 10:52:13 AM
Anybody have any experience with their barrels? Just picked one up for a pretty good price, mid length with a 1/8 twist. I debated for months about getting this barrel or going with the bravo co 16" SS 410 barrel. I got the Shaw barrel with bolt for 299 where I could have gotten the BCM barrel for 299 plus bolt. I know they are two different animals but what do you guys think?
chibajoe
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Posted: 12/18/2009 11:12:53 AM
[Last Edit: 12/18/2009 11:14:04 AM by chibajoe]
They're like the Wal-Mart of barrels; you paid too much.
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Before you judge someone, walk a mile in their shoes...
That way, when you do judge them, you will be a mile away, and they will have no shoes.
jcrowl
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Posted: 12/18/2009 11:15:45 AM
I had one on a Model 1 sales upper, fired it a couple of times, was decent. I'd much rather get the BCM for that price and little extra
warpig8654
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Posted: 12/18/2009 11:16:45 AM
Ya, I agree...you paid too much. However, Shaw barrels are decent barrels.
"You can take the man out of the Marine Corps but you can never take the Marine Corps out of the man"

"If I wanted your opinion I would give it to you" - Gunny

Jesus is my lord & savior.
Two401Pm
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Posted: 12/18/2009 11:49:27 AM
I bought a pre chambered Shaw barrel for a 223 bolt rifle.. After head spacing the first round of factory ammo extracted ok, but on examination the fired case looked like a triangle.. must have let their chamber reamer chatter ... I had to cut 1/2 inch of barrel off, cut new threads to be able to screw it into the reciever and rechamber it correctly... after around 1,000 rounds it will shoot cloverleafs all day long.. Would I buy another one?? I think there are better barrel makers out there that do it right.. I didnt call and bitch so i didnt send it back..I just fixed it myself.. But I will not be using anymore of their barrels for any of my builds.... FWEIW... The fired rounds would have been a major pain to reload.. And rather then send it back, It would have taken more then 2 weeks, I corrected it..
Patron member NRA ,GOA member,Hunter Safety Instructor, Farmer, Coast to Coast Class A Truck Driver with haz mat endorsement. I am not politicaly correct
JonnyVain
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Posted: 12/18/2009 12:00:50 PM
Why didn't you ask before you bought it?
PR361
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Posted: 12/18/2009 12:12:58 PM
E.R Shaw has a great rep everywhere but here........They build some nice custom rifles on a savage action.
chibajoe
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Posted: 12/18/2009 3:05:06 PM
[Last Edit: 12/18/2009 5:08:13 PM by chibajoe]
Was it this barrel?

If so, then it is interesting that AR Performance decided to go with ER Shaw to manufacture the barrel. I have a 6.8SPC and 7.62x39 bolt from them, and am impressed by their quality.

ETA: I'm not saying that ER Shaw barrels are bad, it's just that a lot of the cheaper ARs tend to have ER Shaw barrels; kudos to them if they can provide a quality component at a competitive price point.
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Before you judge someone, walk a mile in their shoes...
That way, when you do judge them, you will be a mile away, and they will have no shoes.
flpickupman
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Posted: 12/18/2009 7:20:09 PM
Got a 1/9 chrome-moly 20" on a M1S upper. I've shot 1" groups consistently with it. Nice enough I suppose.


If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. No use being a damn fool about it.
-W.C. Fields
MMcfpd
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Posted: 12/18/2009 7:31:28 PM
I've had two E.R. Shaw barrels and they have both been good, accurate barrels. For $299 with the bolt, or about $235 for the barrel alone, you did fine.
98snakebite
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Posted: 12/18/2009 7:45:20 PM
My first 16" Recce barrel was an ER Shaw and it was an absolute tack driver...
borderpatrol
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Posted: 12/18/2009 7:48:29 PM
E.R. Shaw is an average barrel maker that has the capability of offering lands and groove options that the now defunct Kotonics/Cardinal Armory and others have found can work well to reduce pressure in the 6.8SPC cartridge. Short narrow lands and wide grooves best describes this feature. Less engraving on the bullet, therefore lower pressures. I will not knowingly purchase one of their barrels, out of prejudice I suppose. I own three of them right now. The first was a Kotonics 6.8SPC which I knew was a E.R. Shaw when I bought it and the other two are Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendels which I found out about after the fact. To my surprise all three shoot just fine and I'm a picky SOB.

I refuse to spend money building any rifle only to put an average quality barrel on it. This is just my SOP, buy a good tube and cry just once. It seems like any effort and expense put into something is worth spending the little bit extra to get it right. Despite my apprehensions all has worked out well. Would I choose E.R. Shaw again? No........I'm prejudiced. Perhaps a Bartlein, Broughton. Schneider, Kreiger, Hart, Shilen, Douglas, Obermeyer anything but E.R. Shaw. I'm sorry, I meant Adams & Bennett.

AR-Performance
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Posted: 12/18/2009 8:46:00 PM
Match grade barrels are a little more spendy than production grade barrels, our match grade barrels start at $450 but, I wouldn't buy a Broughton or any stainless match barrel at $500 or more and then smoke it in one day during a carbine course. The bore of a stainless barrel can look like charcoal on a burned piece of wood after one days shooting. These barrels were designed for hard use like 3 gun or taking carbine courses, they are 8 twist, 5R rifling with a Wylde chamber and are nitro carburized and the bolt is a 9310 alloy bolt not a 8620 commercial bolt.

There are very few real barrel makers in this country, most companies have one of the following make the barrels for them and then their name is stamped on it.
Wilson
Shaw
Citadel
Lothar
Rock Creek is a division of Mike Rock but they are not cut rifled barrels
Criterion is a division of Krieger but they are not cut rifled barrels.
Adams and Bennett do not make their own barrels
Bravo does not make their own hammer forged barrels.
Some companies buy hammer forged barrels from Canada for less than $30 ea., not saying Bravo does.
www.AR15Performance.com
6.8, 5.56, 6.5mmAR, 7.62x39 uppers
peligro113
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Posted: 12/18/2009 9:29:47 PM
Originally Posted By PR361:
E.R Shaw has a great rep everywhere but here........They build some nice custom rifles on a savage action.


Your right I have one and it shoots fine, but once again unless you buy the parts that everyone else on this website buys you pretty much threw your money away or if you don't pay a high dollar amount the part is junk. People fail to realize that the majority of the rifles built by people on this website are just plinkers which aren't going to be used to shoot a sandflys wings off at 600 yards, most are used within 200 yards. I have read about ER barrels on other forums and the general consensus is that the barrels shoot fine, as AR performance stated there are only a few barrel makers in this country.
"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world"
458winmag
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Posted: 12/18/2009 9:36:46 PM
[Last Edit: 12/18/2009 9:39:09 PM by 458winmag]
What he said.
Nothing wrong with Shaw for the most of us. Most can't shoot to a barrels level of accuracy and want to find someone or some thing to blame. For our lack of ability.
458
jstevens
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Posted: 12/18/2009 9:48:48 PM
I have one on a VZ24 bolt rifle in .338-06. It shoots very well, they are a mid level barrel, just a step above a factory rifle barrel.
AR-Performance
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Posted: 12/18/2009 10:17:06 PM
[Last Edit: 12/18/2009 10:49:42 PM by AR-Performance]
This is a list of real match grade barrels commonly used in benchrest the rest are production grade barrels that are unlapped and through a borescope the finish all looks the same inside.
IMO most don't need a match grade barrel on an AR because unless they handload for precision, (not just to save money) they will never see the benefit of a match barrel.
Shilen
Lilja
Hart
Krieger
Douglas
Bartlein
Broughton
Lawton
Schneider
Border
Pac Nor
Spencer
A few others that are lapped but hardly ever hear of them being used in matches.
Lothar
Rock

On the subject of stainless, 416R(R stands for resulphurized) was designed for making gunbarrels the "R" makes the stainless have better machining qualities and reduce the brittlness that the 410 had. They say 410 should not be shot below zero but 416R is good to 40 below

from the tech forums-
CRUCIBLE 416R

Crucible 416R is a pre-hardened chromium stainless steel which is suitable for use in precision match-grade rifle barrels. It can be supplied in various hardness ranges according to your specific requirements ( HRC 24/28, 28/32, or 32/36). Crucible 416R was specifically designed by Crucible engineers in collaboration with barrel makers and rifle manufacturers to provide consistency, high quality and the following characteristics:
Good machinability for gun drilling and reaming, plus excellent polishability for uniform lapping, necessary for bore accuracy.
A homogeneous microstructure which responds to heat treat providing a uniform hardness along the length of the bar, necessary for accurate button rifling to precise groove dimensions.
An optimum combination of high tensile strength along with adequate toughness to withstand the typical chamber pressures encountered during firing.
Good corrosion resistance to inhibit rusting and which also helps to minimize fouling. Crucible 416R provides a durable finish which does not pit when properly maintained.
Precision straightened and stress relieved bars, either mill length or mult length, ready to be cut to length and gun drilled.
100% ultrasonic testing for reliable barrels.
Crucible 416R stainless steel is manufactured using very stringent controls from initial melting, through hot rolling, heat treating, cold finishing and final bar inspection. Barrels made from Crucible 416R are used at all levels of competition and in all conditions dry, damp or salty. Although all martensitic stainless steels have reduced ductility at very low temperatures, Crucible 416R can be safely used down to minus 40°F (-40°C).

Typical Chemistry
Carbon 0.12%
Chromium 12.50%
Manganese 0.40%
Phosphorus 0.03%
Sulfur 0.13%
Silicon 0.40%
www.AR15Performance.com
6.8, 5.56, 6.5mmAR, 7.62x39 uppers
458winmag
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Posted: 12/18/2009 10:46:35 PM
Well, at least you have an opinion. Right or wrong at least you have one.
Yours may or not meet others.
458
Sub-MOA
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Posted: 12/18/2009 10:56:45 PM
Barrel threads always get the blood flowing.

Truth be told, the subject is loaded up with mystic voodoo BS and bias. Any realistic evaluation of accuracy, durability or reliability is going to require a budget the size of a small country... Pointing out that Uncle Sugar has done all that and made value based decisions makes you no friends.––Plus brings the inevitable questions about what exactly tax dollars get spent on.

Just to draw a corollary:
There was an engineer that did an honest evaluation of forend rail rigidity. The guy must have spent $10,000 on instrumenting rails with strain gauges. He collected a whole bunch of data that showed things nobody wanted said... Then he had the outrageous balls to post it on arfcom. I think the thread lasted maybe 12 hours before it got shitcanned. I'm pretty sure he got banned and several vendors made legal threats.

The "rail shitstorm" always stands forthright in my mind whenever I get the urge to crawl up on a soapbox.

I think I'll stick to kicking the anthill as a hobby though. I bought a 5 megapixel bore inspection scope off ebay for $250 the other day. I've been eyeing up a Precisionaire column and a high speed video camera.

I bet you I could spend a couple weeks hard work and generate a thread that would get me banned and sued in like 30 minutes flat.

cwebbcam
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Posted: 12/18/2009 11:30:02 PM
[Last Edit: 12/18/2009 11:30:29 PM by cwebbcam]
....

Butt secks is a lot like spinach. If you're forced to have it as a kid, you're not gonna enjoy it as an adult.-PantherArms762
JM1911
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Posted: 12/19/2009 12:05:42 AM
Originally Posted By borderpatrol:
E.R. Shaw is an average barrel maker that has the capability of offering lands and groove options that the now defunct Kotonics/Cardinal Armory and others have found can work well to reduce pressure in the 6.8SPC cartridge. Short narrow lands and wide grooves best describes this feature. Less engraving on the bullet, therefore lower pressures. I will not knowingly purchase one of their barrels, out of prejudice I suppose. I own three of them right now. The first was a Kotonics 6.8SPC which I knew was a E.R. Shaw when I bought it and the other two are Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendels which I found out about after the fact. To my surprise all three shoot just fine and I'm a picky SOB.

I refuse to spend money building any rifle only to put an average quality barrel on it. This is just my SOP, buy a good tube and cry just once. It seems like any effort and expense put into something is worth spending the little bit extra to get it right. Despite my apprehensions all has worked out well. Would I choose E.R. Shaw again? No........I'm prejudiced. Perhaps a Bartlein, Broughton. Schneider, Kreiger, Hart, Shilen, Douglas, Obermeyer anything but E.R. Shaw. I'm sorry, I meant Adams & Bennett.




So all 3 specimens shot fine, but you wont buy them anymore. You are picky !
chibajoe
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Posted: 12/19/2009 12:34:27 AM
Originally Posted By Sub-MOA:
Barrel threads always get the blood flowing.

Truth be told, the subject is loaded up with mystic voodoo BS and bias. Any realistic evaluation of accuracy, durability or reliability is going to require a budget the size of a small country... Pointing out that Uncle Sugar has done all that and made value based decisions makes you no friends.––Plus brings the inevitable questions about what exactly tax dollars get spent on.

Just to draw a corollary:
There was an engineer that did an honest evaluation of forend rail rigidity. The guy must have spent $10,000 on instrumenting rails with strain gauges. He collected a whole bunch of data that showed things nobody wanted said... Then he had the outrageous balls to post it on arfcom. I think the thread lasted maybe 12 hours before it got shitcanned. I'm pretty sure he got banned and several vendors made legal threats.

The "rail shitstorm" always stands forthright in my mind whenever I get the urge to crawl up on a soapbox.

I think I'll stick to kicking the anthill as a hobby though. I bought a 5 megapixel bore inspection scope off ebay for $250 the other day. I've been eyeing up a Precisionaire column and a high speed video camera.

I bet you I could spend a couple weeks hard work and generate a thread that would get me banned and sued in like 30 minutes flat.



So, what happened in the thread...
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Before you judge someone, walk a mile in their shoes...
That way, when you do judge them, you will be a mile away, and they will have no shoes.
Sub-MOA
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Posted: 12/19/2009 1:02:56 AM
Originally Posted By chibajoe:
Originally Posted By Sub-MOA:
Barrel threads always get the blood flowing.

Truth be told, the subject is loaded up with mystic voodoo BS and bias. Any realistic evaluation of accuracy, durability or reliability is going to require a budget the size of a small country... Pointing out that Uncle Sugar has done all that and made value based decisions makes you no friends.––Plus brings the inevitable questions about what exactly tax dollars get spent on.

Just to draw a corollary:
There was an engineer that did an honest evaluation of forend rail rigidity. The guy must have spent $10,000 on instrumenting rails with strain gauges. He collected a whole bunch of data that showed things nobody wanted said... Then he had the outrageous balls to post it on arfcom. I think the thread lasted maybe 12 hours before it got shitcanned. I'm pretty sure he got banned and several vendors made legal threats.

The "rail shitstorm" always stands forthright in my mind whenever I get the urge to crawl up on a soapbox.

I think I'll stick to kicking the anthill as a hobby though. I bought a 5 megapixel bore inspection scope off ebay for $250 the other day. I've been eyeing up a Precisionaire column and a high speed video camera.

I bet you I could spend a couple weeks hard work and generate a thread that would get me banned and sued in like 30 minutes flat.



So, what happened in the thread...


... Early 2002 it was fairly common to see people with optics mounted way out front. The rings would either "bridge the gap" or be entirely out on the rail.
When the topic of rail deflection got broached, there was a whole bunch of otherwise credible people that insisted it was "fine."

Common knowledge today: Back then, you would have thought armageddon was at hand.
458winmag
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Posted: 12/19/2009 1:18:38 AM
Originally Posted By JM1911:
Originally Posted By borderpatrol:
E.R. Shaw is an average barrel maker that has the capability of offering lands and groove options that the now defunct Kotonics/Cardinal Armory and others have found can work well to reduce pressure in the 6.8SPC cartridge. Short narrow lands and wide grooves best describes this feature. Less engraving on the bullet, therefore lower pressures. I will not knowingly purchase one of their barrels, out of prejudice I suppose. I own three of them right now. The first was a Kotonics 6.8SPC which I knew was a E.R. Shaw when I bought it and the other two are Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendels which I found out about after the fact. To my surprise all three shoot just fine and I'm a picky SOB.

I refuse to spend money building any rifle only to put an average quality barrel on it. This is just my SOP, buy a good tube and cry just once. It seems like any effort and expense put into something is worth spending the little bit extra to get it right. Despite my apprehensions all has worked out well. Would I choose E.R. Shaw again? No........I'm prejudiced. Perhaps a Bartlein, Broughton. Schneider, Kreiger, Hart, Shilen, Douglas, Obermeyer anything but E.R. Shaw. I'm sorry, I meant Adams & Bennett.




I thought it was just me.
458


So all 3 specimens shot fine, but you wont buy them anymore. You are picky !


87GN
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Posted: 12/20/2009 12:09:34 AM
One thing to consider with stuff like this is who turned the blank...

ER Shaw doesn't drill gas ports or attach barrel extensions - at least not as of May 2009, when I talked to them about it.

So if you get an ER Shaw blank that was made into an AR-15 barrel by "Bubba Joe's Machine Shop, Bar and Grill" in Whitewright, TX, you may, or may not, be happy with the results.

But if you get an ER Shaw blank that was turned down and completed by someone who knows what they're doing, then you'll probably be very happy with the results.

I don't know of many people using ER Shaw barrels with suppressors, some companies that use their blanks are known to put out barrels with threads not concentric to the bore...
Not making any friends here.
azoutdoorsman
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Posted: 12/20/2009 12:34:12 AM
[Last Edit: 12/20/2009 12:44:59 AM by azoutdoorsman]
Originally Posted By 87GN:
One thing to consider with stuff like this is who turned the blank...

ER Shaw doesn't drill gas ports or attach barrel extensions - at least not as of May 2009, when I talked to them about it.

So if you get an ER Shaw blank that was made into an AR-15 barrel by "Bubba Joe's Machine Shop, Bar and Grill" in Whitewright, TX, you may, or may not, be happy with the results.

But if you get an ER Shaw blank that was turned down and completed by someone who knows what they're doing, then you'll probably be very happy with the results.

I don't know of many people using ER Shaw barrels with suppressors, some companies that use their blanks are known to put out barrels with threads not concentric to the bore...


Try the Krusty Klam Kakes there, I hear they are delicious.

I had one E.R. Shaw pencil profile 16" barrel. With open sights/Tri Reflex and PMC ammo it shot 2MOA or better at 25 yards from a backpack. Here's the thread:
Clicky
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