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Posted: 9/30/2009 10:32:09 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
It wasn't made to divert blowback. It was made for ultimate durability. Fair enough. Pat Rogers had posted pictures of broken PRI gasbusters on light fighter. I believe that USMC03 posted a "how to" on making the BCM gunfighter into a gasblocker.
Anything can be made to break. I'm not going to take an instance of a broken gas buster (the first i've heard of at least) as a sign that all PRI gas busters suck balls. But, if the gunfighter is that much better and can be modded, who knows. It might be worth it. Especially if it is stronger as well as cheaper. Got a link for the gunfighter gas blocker mod? |
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Posted: 9/30/2009 10:34:23 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I bought one a few weeks back for my new project/build. I'm looking forward to putting it all together  Details needed. SBR? Yes. A BCM 11.5 hammer forged barrel, Vltor MUR, Colt 6940 BCG, BCM Mod 4 Latch, KAC triple tap, KAC BUIS and KAC E3 registered lower. Still waiting on the paperwork to come back though. I figure I still have about another month and a half wait  The only thing I can't decide is which Aimpoint I want, but I'm heavily leaning toward a T1. I'm extremely excited about putting this all
together and a big thanks to Neil from Gun Gallery for helping me out! [ETA] I'm also torn between a Sopmod or UBR..... |
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Posted: 9/30/2009 10:42:55 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
I have tens of thousands of rounds through my regular charging handle and no problems...Why the gawdy "operator" gear??? I mean really, whats wrong with a regular charging handle? Used mine in carbine courses, and my M4 in the sandbox had a regular charging handle, and again no problems there...To quote "A fool and his money is soon parted". Sure, Bravo company makes great stuff, but why the hype for a charging handle??? I have several hundred thousand rounds downrange going back a few decades. More importantly, i supervise appx 600,000+ rds down range every year- mostly 5.56x45mm. I have a box of bent and broken CH's, to include even PRI. I show them to students at every class. Part of the issue is the low quality of parts on the hobby guns, but the biggest issue is that for the past 15 years we have been operating the CH with the support side hand, maintaining the firing grip. Eugene Stoner did not have this in mind in the 50's, and we have learned a lot about fighting with a gun since then. That CH pin is a weak point, and the sllot in the CH for the latch another. We know what we see, every week. Take a look at the LF thread. It may be an eye opener for some. Paul makes great stuff. This is one of his pet projects for a while, and i have 21 of these in service for a while now. It is a vast improvement over the original... http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7206084761/m/588102773 |
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Posted: 9/30/2009 11:01:01 AM EDT
[#4]
GrumpyM4 here is the post from Jeff about the "Gas Buster" version.
Quoted:
Posted: 9/11/2009 8:46:47 PM EDT [Last Edit: 9/14/2009 6:33:15 PM EDT by USMC03] 
For the members that have requested a "Gas buster" version of the BCM Gunfighter charging handle. Here's a do it yourself gas buster charging handle modificiation review that I wrote back in 2004, and updated with new pics this past weekend. ************************************************ Many guys have asked me what the "red stuff" is in the gap on the charging handles closest to the receiver. If you look at the charging handle on an AR15 from the top of the gun you will notice that there is a half circle shaped gap where the charging handle fits up agains the upper receiver. If you look at this same area from the side, you will notice that there is a space between the charging handle and the upper receiver. This is where a majority of excess lube, gases, and debris escape out of the upper receiver and are directed into the shooters face. By filling the half circle gap on the charging handle with RTV silicone you can make a cheap and very effective "gas buster" for your charging handle, and this prevents Lube, gases and debris from being blown back into your face. Step #1 Prep the charging handle. Clean the half circle shaped area on the charging handle with Acetone and wipe dry. Step #2 Get a tube of Permatex High-Temp RTV Silicone Gasket Makter #26B (can be found in the automotive section at Wal-Mart. It comes in a red tube and costs $2.97). Looking at the charging handle from the top you will notice a gap that looks like a "C" or half circle. Ensure that the charging handle is locked in the forward position. To make the gas buster modification, I filled in this gap between the upper receiver and the higher portion of the charging handle with the High-Temp RTV Silicone, using a plastic knife to level out the silicone and remove any excess. Step #3 Let the RTV Silicone dry over night, once the RTV Silicone is applied to the charging handle, DO NOT move the charging handle until the RTV Silicone has cured. After the RTV cures, take a knife and slide the blade between the RTV and the upper receiver to loosen it up a bit. Then pull the charging handle back slowly, if it's still sticking to the upper receiver, use the blade of the knife to slowly and gently pull the RTV away from the upper receiver. You want the RTV Silicone to stick to the charging handle, not the upper receiver. The RTV Silicone makes a perfect seal, nothing can excape from the upper receiver in the area of the charging handle. I have guns that I put the RTV on back in 2001 or so and it's still on the gun. The RTV makes a perfect seal around the upper receiver, it's much cheaper than a $90 charging handle. 
Apply the RTV Silicon while the charging handle and bolt are both in the forward position: 
Charging handle when complete and removed from the rifle: 
************************************************ |
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Posted: 9/30/2009 12:02:49 PM EDT
[#5]
I'm thinking that if you're going to make your own gas buster black silicone would be a good choice.
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Posted: 9/30/2009 12:22:11 PM EDT
[#6]
Jeff is a mod here and on Lightfighter as well.
Unlike many, Jeff is a Cop, Marine and a competitive shooter. He has been doing this for a long time, and has made a number of these DIY gas diversion mods. The reason he did it in red was so that others- like you- might be able to better see it. The whole contrast thing..... He doesn't have to do any of this of course, but take a look at his posts and you'll understand that he does this to pass on good information to those who need it. It is pretty simple to make wise cracks, and critcise others -but before wasting bandwidth with nonsense, perhaps engage your brain and consider what you are saying. Just sayin'..... |
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Posted: 9/30/2009 12:27:26 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Jeff is a mod here and on Lightfighter as well. Unlike many, Jeff is a Cop, Marine and a competitive shooter. He has been doing this for a long time, and has made a number of these DIY gas diversion mods. The reason he did it in red was so that others- like you- might be able to better see it. The whole contrast thing..... He doesn't have to do any of this of course, but take a look at his posts and you'll understand that he does this to pass on good information to those who need it. It is pretty simple to make wise cracks, and critcise others -but before wasting bandwidth with nonsense, perhaps engage your brain and consider what you are saying. Just sayin'.....
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Posted: 9/30/2009 12:45:39 PM EDT
[#8]
cool. OST
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Posted: 9/30/2009 12:52:31 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Unlike many, Jeff is a Cop, Marine and a competitive shooter. 
There are thousands of cops, Marines and competive shooters here. Even plenty of people who have been all three. But we dont assume expertise based on current or former occupation. Opposing veiwpoints are welcome here, even yours. |
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Posted: 9/30/2009 1:00:18 PM EDT
[#10]
I am a cop, Marine and competitive shooter as well Steven.
But i also do this for a living. This site has a poor reputation because the good guys who are truly seeking information get lost in the sauce of the clownshoes. Jeff has been passing on great information to the masses for no other reaso other than getting the info out. He deserves that respect. |
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Posted: 9/30/2009 1:05:21 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
I'm thinking that if you're going to make your own gas buster black silicone would be a good choice. I think I would prefer a brighter color in order to more easily determine if it had deteriorated to the point that it was no longer useful... I mean, it's not like that sliver of orange silicone is a target indicator... |
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Posted: 9/30/2009 1:08:19 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Jeff has been passing on great information to the masses for no other reaso other than getting the info out. He deserves that respect. If he knows what he is talking about, and I have no reason to suspect he does not, it will show . People here will respect his opinion because of his knowledge, not his current or former occupation. There is a small faction here that for leading with "he's a cop" will draw a negative not positive response. I don't consider myself in that faction, after all I train cops for a living. But i realize that faction does exist. Better to let his knowledge speak for him than his occupation. |
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Posted: 9/30/2009 1:33:30 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm glad you liked them, 87GN. 
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb195/toiyabe66/DSC_0002-1.jpg Well since I have you to thank...well, thanks. thanks for the post, i would love to get a couple. the pics really put the difference into perspective 
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Posted: 9/30/2009 2:50:55 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
I have several hundred thousand rounds downrange going back a few decades. More importantly, i supervise appx 600,000+ rds down range every year- mostly 5.56x45mm. I have a box of bent and broken CH's, to include even PRI. I show them to students at every class. Part of the issue is the low quality of parts on the hobby guns, but the biggest issue is that for the past 15 years we have been operating the CH with the support side hand, maintaining the firing grip. Eugene Stoner did not have this in mind in the 50's, and we have learned a lot about fighting with a gun since then. That CH pin is a weak point, and the sllot in the CH for the latch another. We know what we see, every week. Take a look at the LF thread. It may be an eye opener for some. Paul makes great stuff. This is one of his pet projects for a while, and i have 21 of these in service for a while now. It is a vast improvement over the original... http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7206084761/m/588102773 how many rounds have you seen go through a bcm gunfighter charging handle to date? i do not see one ever wearing out or braking, but would like to know how much use you have gotten out of them so far. thanks for passing on some of the knowledge you have picked up over the years. |
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Posted: 9/30/2009 3:52:57 PM EDT
[#15]
The downhill slope stops now. No more name calling or personal attacks. If it continues the thread will live, accounts will not.
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Posted: 9/30/2009 4:40:42 PM EDT
[#16]
Who makes this CH, BCM or Vltor?
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Posted: 9/30/2009 4:54:14 PM EDT
[#17]
excellent thread! thanks a lot for the pictures. being a lefty, it's awkward for me to use my weak hand to charge it so often times i let go of the grip and use my left hand instead. with winter approaching gloves makes it even more awkward. i'll definitely give one a try.
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Posted: 9/30/2009 5:13:58 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
excellent thread! thanks a lot for the pictures. being a lefty, it's awkward for me to use my weak hand to charge it so often times i let go of the grip and use my left hand instead. with winter approaching gloves makes it even more awkward. i'll definitely give one a try. My dad is left handed and has weak shoulders and joints from hockey and construction injuries. The BCM charging handle makes it exceptionally easy for him to work the action - even easier than a dedicated ambi charging handle, which is also far more expensive. I brought it over to his house this morning for him to try, and it is currently nowhere to be found...
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Posted: 9/30/2009 5:17:43 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Who makes this CH, BCM or Vltor? I think each one is forged by elves at the secret underground Vltor weapons laboratory, then anodized with a solution that includes eye of newt and the tears of a virgin. At that point the components are shipped to BCM to be assembled and blessed by Buddhist monks. Finally, they are packaged in 4 mil plastic bags made with Iraqi oil along with BCM scratch 'n' sniff stickers. |
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Posted: 9/30/2009 5:21:08 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
excellent thread! thanks a lot for the pictures. being a lefty, it's awkward for me to use my weak hand to charge it so often times i let go of the grip and use my left hand instead. with winter approaching gloves makes it even more awkward. i'll definitely give one a try. My dad is left handed and has weak shoulders and joints from hockey and construction injuries. The BCM charging handle makes it exceptionally easy for him to work the action - even easier than a dedicated ambi charging handle, which is also far more expensive. Does your dad operate the CH with his strong hand or support? |
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Posted: 9/30/2009 5:35:21 PM EDT
[#21]
"how many rounds have you seen go through a bcm gunfighter charging handle to date? i do not see one ever wearing out or braking, but would like to know how much use you have gotten out of them so far.
thanks for passing on some of the knowledge you have picked up over the years. " Thanks for the kind words! I have 21 on guns now. The highest round count is appx 3200 rds. It will take a long time to find any viable information. If it is made by man on a machine it will eventually reach a failure point. Nothing is perfect. Neither Vltor or BCM make it. BCM has contracted a company to manufacture the BCMGunfighter |
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Posted: 9/30/2009 5:39:03 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Jeff has been passing on great information to the masses for no other reaso other than getting the info out. He deserves that respect. If he knows what he is talking about, and I have no reason to suspect he does not, it will show . People here will respect his opinion because of his knowledge, not his current or former occupation. There is a small faction here that for leading with "he's a cop" will draw a negative not positive response. I don't consider myself in that faction, after all I train cops for a living. But i realize that faction does exist. Better to let his knowledge speak for him than his occupation. Excellent post. |
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Posted: 9/30/2009 5:47:10 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Jeff has been passing on great information to the masses for no other reaso other than getting the info out. He deserves that respect. If he knows what he is talking about, and I have no reason to suspect he does not, it will show . People here will respect his opinion because of his knowledge, not his current or former occupation. There is a small faction here that for leading with "he's a cop" will draw a negative not positive response. I don't consider myself in that faction, after all I train cops for a living. But i realize that faction does exist. Better to let his knowledge speak for him than his occupation. Excellent post. Lets get back on topic. I should not have allowed myself to get drawn into an arguement on the internet. Even if you win you still look retarded. Neither Pat's or mine demeanor is nearly as gruff or judgemental in the real world. I wasnt trying to badmouth the BCM product line. I was and still am however still interested in the longevity of the BCM CH. I'm wondering if the new latch design will lesson the common twisting and uneven wear that we have all experianced with "tactical" latches in the past. I understand the intention is to extend the life of the latch pin. Since I've had more Charging handles fail due to bending and binding than broken latch pins. I was wondering, and hoping more than a little, that an added benifit would be longer charging handle life. |
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Posted: 9/30/2009 5:47:46 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Who makes this CH, BCM or Vltor? I think each one is forged by elves at the secret underground Vltor weapons laboratory, then anodized with a solution that includes eye of newt and the tears of a virgin. At that point the components are shipped to BCM to be assembled and blessed by Buddhist monks. Finally, they are packaged in 4 mil plastic bags made with Iraqi oil along with BCM scratch 'n' sniff stickers. 
Thanks for the great thread and all the good info. At first I thought to myself, What about the roll pin?? And then all my questions were answered. I never thought I would have this much interest in a charging handle.
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Posted: 9/30/2009 5:50:53 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
I have tens of thousands of rounds through my regular charging handle and no problems...Why the gawdy "operator" gear??? It isn't "gawdy" just because it isn't MILSPEC. And purchasing one doesn't mean you are trying to be an "operator". It's all about ergonomics and if you don't think ergonomics can contribute to mission effectiveness then I don't think you understand the whole picture. If a pink and fluffy magazine release doo-dad made me more comfortable in changing out mags then I would buy it. The tactical charging handle latches provide a wider surface area and better leverage. The wider surface area means that you can begin pulling the charging handle back with less fumbling - almost zero fumbling because you don't need to find the latch. You only need to sweep your hand back along the receiver. And the better leverage means that you can stay trained on target better while you are operating the charging handle because you don't need to hook both fingers around the charging handle to pull it back (and have to shift your head out of the way for your arm to grasp and pull) - you can just sweep your hand along the receiver. YES - it is true that you can do that with a MILSPEC charging handle - but it is very tough on the edge of your hand (because the leverage isn't there). Please don't think that companies are selling shit loads of these just because they look different. Some serious thought went into designing and manufacturing them and people wouldn't buy them if they didn't see the benefit. |
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Posted: 10/1/2009 12:54:56 AM EDT
[#26]
So is there a claim that this is different beyond the latching mechanism, ie the main body of the charging handle is thicker/stronger/different material than say a dpms charging handle?
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/1/2009 8:41:30 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
So is there a claim that this is different beyond the latching mechanism, ie the main body of the charging handle is thicker/stronger/different material than say a dpms charging handle? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Aside from the part where the latch is, the dimensions of the BCM aren't any different than a standard charging handle. It could be higher grade aluminum, I don't know. The BCM does seem to twist less when you pull it back. I haven't been able to figure out a good way to measure it so it could just be my imagination. I was going to sit down last weekend and try to calculate the magnitude and directions of the forces on the different latches. But I couldn't find my calculator so I decided to drink beer instead. I don't see any disadvantages to the BCM charging handle. I use PRI latches on all my ARs so price isn't an issue. IMO the closed back and the way that the latch work are improvements on the standard design. I can't justify the cost of changing out all of my charging handles but I'll buy the BCM for future builds. |
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Posted: 10/1/2009 9:48:57 AM EDT
[#28]
back in stock, if anyone was interested.
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Posted: 10/1/2009 2:05:20 PM EDT
[#29]
I got mine time will tell if I'll be needing more
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Posted: 10/25/2009 9:29:15 AM EDT
[#30]
Yesterday I was shooting a very dirty (not carbon dirty, dirty dirty) AR-15. Initially I had the standard charging handle, but had to use all my man strength to pull the BCG back because of all the crud inside the weapon. I swapped in the BCM GFH and the difference was astounding. It gave me much more leverage without giving me the impression that I was about to rip the latch off the handle.
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Posted: 10/25/2009 9:32:49 AM EDT
[#31]
I just got in a BCM Mod 3 charging handle in last week. I first thought this would be just like a badger tac latch but I was pleasantly surprised it is completely different. I liked it so much I ordered two more for my other ARs. It makes pulling the handle back a solid movement and makes it easier to do. I'll put them on every AR I own from now on.
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Posted: 10/25/2009 9:52:02 AM EDT
[#32]
I have been using one for a month now-approx 600 rounds. Ergonomically it is superior to a standard CH. It certainly is more robust. My son's RRA CH is beginning to show a little bend. It will be replaced with the BCM as well. I am not a competitive shooter-former Army though. My primary concern/usage is HD. My thinking is I can afford it AND it reduces the chances of failure-why NOT get it?
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Posted: 10/25/2009 10:14:54 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
I have tens of thousands of rounds through my regular charging handle and no problems...Why the gawdy "operator" gear??? I mean really, whats wrong with a regular charging handle? Used mine in carbine courses, and my M4 in the sandbox had a regular charging handle, and again no problems there...To quote "A fool and his money is soon parted". Sure, Bravo company makes great stuff, but why the hype for a charging handle??? Read BCM's comments on it on page 2 of the thread OP linked. This handle is for GUNFIGHTERS, hence the name. If the manner of charging your weapon isn't a big deal (life and death) then this really doesn't add much benefit to you. EDIT: Guess I should read more before posting... I see you actually do use it to fight
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Posted: 10/25/2009 10:43:33 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
I have tens of thousands of rounds through my regular charging handle and no problems...Why the gawdy "operator" gear??? I mean really, whats wrong with a regular charging handle? Used mine in carbine courses, and my M4 in the sandbox had a regular charging handle, and again no problems there...To quote "A fool and his money is soon parted". Sure, Bravo company makes great stuff, but why the hype for a charging handle??? I was thinking the same thing as you, I think you will change your mind once you try one, it's really worth it if you will use your rifle in combat. |
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Posted: 10/25/2009 10:56:00 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
It's $20-25 more than a quality charging handle (which is still a weaker design) and much easier to manipulate. No it's not. It's about the same price for a charging handle and any of the current tac latches available. Considering the BCM handle is superior(including the latch), why buy anything else? You'll spend the same amount, assuming you run a tac latch. I use to run the PRI's Military Big latch exclusively, until I tried the BCM. |
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Posted: 10/25/2009 10:59:19 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: Quoted: It's $20-25 more than a quality charging handle (which is still a weaker design) and much easier to manipulate. No it's not. It's about the same price for a charging handle and any of the current tac latches available. Considering the BCM handle is superior(including the latch). Why buy anything else? You'll spend the same amount, assuming you run a tac latch. I use to run the PRI Military Bit latch exclusively, until I tried the BCM. Umm...like I said, $20 more than the cost of a standard charging handle. |
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Posted: 10/25/2009 11:15:20 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
I just got in a BCM Mod 3 charging handle in last week. I first thought this would be just like a badger tac latch but I was pleasantly surprised it is completely different. I liked it so much I ordered two more for my other ARs. It makes pulling the handle back a solid movement and makes it easier to do. I'll put them on every AR I own from now on. OK, I'm sold. Just ordered mine from Bravo Company, a mod 3 handle. It will be replacing the badger tactical latch setup on my original CH. |
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Posted: 10/25/2009 11:16:27 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's $20-25 more than a quality charging handle (which is still a weaker design) and much easier to manipulate. No it's not. It's about the same price for a charging handle and any of the current tac latches available. Considering the BCM handle is superior(including the latch). Why buy anything else? You'll spend the same amount, assuming you run a tac latch. I use to run the PRI Military Bit latch exclusively, until I tried the BCM. Umm...like I said, $20 more than the cost of a standard charging handle. But dude, no. 
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