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Posted: 9/6/2009 3:26:32 PM EDT
I'm looking for a flat top type complete AR-15. What is the best cost vs. features/quality out there. I've heard an RRA Tactical entry might be good choice?

Thanks for the advice!
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 3:31:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2009 3:38:48 PM EDT by jerz_subbie]
Best VALUE? Well value implies much subjectivity. I may feel that spending $50 more for a RRA than a Stag is well worth it while others would not.

I'd say a M&P15 for $962 or for a couple hundred more BCM middy $1134... actually the Spike's M4 for $950 looks really good considering it has a CHF barrel. I'm not particularly a fan of pistons.

You must decide which is the better value to you.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 3:31:25 PM EDT
Spikes Tactical has a good Labor Day weekend sale going on for a complete rifle with the AA pistol conversion. If I were buying a rifle I'd jump on it. I just bought a new Springfield 1911 so I am out of gun money for the month, if not I'd have that Spikes.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 3:38:03 PM EDT
BCM
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 4:05:52 PM EDT
Noveske
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 4:06:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2009 4:07:08 PM EDT by Redbone]
Best Value? I'd say Daniel Defense S&W or BCM.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 4:07:14 PM EDT
Best value, I think Colt 6920
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 4:26:44 PM EDT
Del-Ton all guns 750.00.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 4:39:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SLICKYINC:
Del-Ton all guns 750.00.


Seriously? No I'm not referring to the price. Delton is a budget brand, I thought this was indisputable until now.

Not knocking them or saying they're junk, but I don't think they qualify as the best compromise of price vs quality.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 4:40:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2009 4:50:22 PM EDT by texjames]
PK Firearms has RRA tactical Entry in stock $1015 and is a great rifle...
PK Fireamrs


Link Posted: 9/6/2009 4:43:17 PM EDT
ya, thats nice and all, but for $1k plus you can get rifles with staked everything, auto carriers and real m4 feedramps. If someone can drop $1000 they can spend the extra $100-$150 for a Colt, BCM, LMT or Daniel Defense.

Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By SLICKYINC:
Del-Ton all guns 750.00.


Seriously? No I'm not referring to the price. Delton is a budget brand, I thought this was indisputable until now.

Not knocking them or saying they're junk, but I don't think they qualify as the best compromise of price vs quality.


Link Posted: 9/6/2009 4:44:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2009 5:05:37 PM EDT by SLICKYINC]
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By SLICKYINC:
Del-Ton all guns 750.00.


Seriously? No I'm not referring to the price. Delton is a budget brand, I thought this was indisputable until now.

Not knocking them or saying they're junk, but I don't think they qualify as the best compromise of price vs quality.


I dont recall you starting this thread. So we arent refering to YOUR price anyway. I feel that the Del-Ton is a great value for the money. I can take my DTI out shooting with 0 problems at all, but my rock river elite CAR 4 on the other hand is a complete POS. Nothing but problems since day 1. I do however agree with you on the S&W. I have 0 problems out of it.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 4:52:30 PM EDT
From my personal experience, BCM.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 5:13:07 PM EDT
Best value?

Get an AR-15 kit from Del Ton. Add a lower for $100 and you have a great rifle for under $600.

Or get an LMT. Shopping around these can be had for around $900, especially if you buy the lower and upper separate.

Once Colt prices drop sufficiently, these may be the way to go.

Bottom line is you have a lot of options right now and it will probably only get better.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 5:16:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By timeless:
Best value, I think Colt 6920


They're easily had for $1150-1300 right now. Nothing else comes close. No more oversized trigger pins either. The LE6920 is the standard by which all others are measured.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 5:18:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2009 5:19:22 PM EDT by an_hero]
Originally Posted By Middlelength:
Once Colt prices drop sufficiently, these may be the way to go.


They're not going to get any cheaper unless they start cutting out QC steps and making a lesser product. RRA, Bushmaster, Stag and DPMS already have that market covered.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 5:22:26 PM EDT
in all probability, the most gun for the money right now is the D.D. XV CARBINE, FOR $999 at most places [AIM SURPLUS ???] this is without dispute a world-class rifle, and what i gave my grandson. [put my money where my mouth is] i see all the time where one or the other is straffing colt, lmt, or whoever is the flavor of the month,,, but not [yet] D.D. this is simply just an opinion,,YMMV
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 5:30:43 PM EDT
well woods and water in tuscaloosa alabama has the dpms sportical in stock right now for 699 dollars. I know this will bring lots of flames for me mentioning it but it is a complete rifle at a rock bottom price with no extras and that sounds like what you want.. I think they have a website too. Its like woods-n-water.com or something like that. The price is quite higher on their website than in the store. If you have business in Alabama it might be worth your trip if it is something you wanted.

Good luck with your choice
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 5:40:01 PM EDT
I've never shot a DPMS, but I've considered that brand and heard good things. I'd say for an entry level gun, it is GTG. I own a Spikes, a Bushmaster and a YHM. I recommend all three as solid GTG middle range AR brands. Anyone who tells you that these brands are not good, likely never had one. Bushmaster makes more guns than anyone and they have pretty good quality control. I've been thrilled with both my Spikes ST-15 lower and ST-22 upper and my YHM. The Bushy and YHM are HBar's. Never had any issue with any of these guns.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 5:52:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2009 5:54:47 PM EDT by matt33]
Originally Posted By an_hero:
Originally Posted By timeless:
Best value, I think Colt 6920


They're easily had for $1150-1300 right now. Nothing else comes close. No more oversized trigger pins either. The LE6920 is the standard by which all others are measured.

Word. I saw NIB 6920's for just under $1,100 somewhere recently. In my mind, that is the best value out there. If you don't like your new Colt, you can sell it for what you paid (or more with the sole addition of one stupid future statement from any liberal politician). Last year, you could push two pins and have an LMT carbine for just under $1,000. I feel my pre-Obama LMT is as good as my 6920, although more recent LMT's have had some QC issues. Noveske makes the best AR in my safe, but you're starting to get into the law of diminishing marginal returns.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 5:54:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2009 5:57:37 PM EDT by jerz_subbie]
Originally Posted By SLICKYINC:
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By SLICKYINC:
Del-Ton all guns 750.00.


Seriously? No I'm not referring to the price. Delton is a budget brand, I thought this was indisputable until now.

Not knocking them or saying they're junk, but I don't think they qualify as the best compromise of price vs quality.


I dont recall you starting this thread. So we arent refering to YOUR price anyway. I feel that the Del-Ton is a great value for the money. I can take my DTI out shooting with 0 problems at all, but my rock river elite CAR 4 on the other hand is a complete POS. Nothing but problems since day 1. I do however agree with you on the S&W. I have 0 problems out of it.


You'd be correct, I did not start the thread; I just started the OP and this thread in the correct direction. Considering he didn't state a price range, we could recommend ANY rifle we feel is a great VALUE. Again, he didn't say budget gun, he said best value; There is a difference. Delton may be "a great value for the money" but I don't think many would agree with you that it is the best value. Your Delton has very few, if any, of the features that a 6920, the benchmark of AR's, has. My first AR was a RRA Entry Tac and I absolutely loved it! However I know there are better guns out there made closer to Milspec for the same money.

If the OP stated a price range or added a poll it might help the thread a bit.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 6:08:51 PM EDT
Thanks all. No price range in mind, just trying to get the best bang for buck. The Bravo looks interesting for the money.
I really just want the rifle to be mil spec and will pay 1100- 1400 if I need to. Thanks
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 6:18:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By leswill:
in all probability, the most gun for the money right now is the D.D. XV CARBINE, FOR $999 at most places [AIM SURPLUS ???] this is without dispute a world-class rifle, and what i gave my grandson. [put my money where my mouth is] i see all the time where one or the other is straffing colt, lmt, or whoever is the flavor of the month,,, but not [yet] D.D. this is simply just an opinion,,YMMV


where would you find said rifle for that price?
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 6:28:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Originally Posted By leswill:
in all probability, the most gun for the money right now is the D.D. XV CARBINE, FOR $999 at most places [AIM SURPLUS ???] this is without dispute a world-class rifle, and what i gave my grandson. [put my money where my mouth is] i see all the time where one or the other is straffing colt, lmt, or whoever is the flavor of the month,,, but not [yet] D.D. this is simply just an opinion,,YMMV


where would you find said rifle for that price?

Here....http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Daniel_Defense_XV_M4_Carbine.html

Link Posted: 9/6/2009 6:31:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Originally Posted By leswill:
in all probability, the most gun for the money right now is the D.D. XV CARBINE, FOR $999 at most places [AIM SURPLUS ???] this is without dispute a world-class rifle, and what i gave my grandson. [put my money where my mouth is] i see all the time where one or the other is straffing colt, lmt, or whoever is the flavor of the month,,, but not [yet] D.D. this is simply just an opinion,,YMMV


where would you find said rifle for that price?


I think that was an introductory price when they first came out. Now AIM still has the cheapest price I think? for $1139 shipped. Not such a great deal when Colt 6920 and BCM complete rifle is about the same price.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 6:32:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By texjames:
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Originally Posted By leswill:
in all probability, the most gun for the money right now is the D.D. XV CARBINE, FOR $999 at most places [AIM SURPLUS ???] this is without dispute a world-class rifle, and what i gave my grandson. [put my money where my mouth is] i see all the time where one or the other is straffing colt, lmt, or whoever is the flavor of the month,,, but not [yet] D.D. this is simply just an opinion,,YMMV


where would you find said rifle for that price?

Here....http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Daniel_Defense_XV_M4_Carbine.html



Where Does it say the rifle is $999 ? did you even look at the add?
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 6:34:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GhostFly:
Thanks all. No price range in mind, just trying to get the best bang for buck. The Bravo looks interesting for the money.
I really just want the rifle to be mil spec and will pay 1100- 1400 if I need to. Thanks


Thanks for clearing that up for us.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 6:36:31 PM EDT
Spikes Tactical ST-15
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 6:40:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Redbone:
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Originally Posted By leswill:
in all probability, the most gun for the money right now is the D.D. XV CARBINE, FOR $999 at most places [AIM SURPLUS ???] this is without dispute a world-class rifle, and what i gave my grandson. [put my money where my mouth is] i see all the time where one or the other is straffing colt, lmt, or whoever is the flavor of the month,,, but not [yet] D.D. this is simply just an opinion,,YMMV


where would you find said rifle for that price?


I think that was an introductory price when they first came out. Now AIM still has the cheapest price I think? for $1139 shipped. Not such a great deal when Colt 6920 and BCM complete rifle is about the same price.

Who has Colt LE for under $1300 ? Post a link.

Link Posted: 9/6/2009 6:40:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By an_hero:
Originally Posted By Middlelength:
Once Colt prices drop sufficiently, these may be the way to go.


They're not going to get any cheaper unless they start cutting out QC steps and making a lesser product. RRA, Bushmaster, Stag and DPMS already have that market covered.


If aesthetics count then they have dropped a few already...
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 6:41:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Originally Posted By texjames:
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Originally Posted By leswill:
in all probability, the most gun for the money right now is the D.D. XV CARBINE, FOR $999 at most places [AIM SURPLUS ???] this is without dispute a world-class rifle, and what i gave my grandson. [put my money where my mouth is] i see all the time where one or the other is straffing colt, lmt, or whoever is the flavor of the month,,, but not [yet] D.D. this is simply just an opinion,,YMMV


where would you find said rifle for that price?

Here....http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Daniel_Defense_XV_M4_Carbine.html



Where Does it say the rifle is $999 ? did you even look at the add?

Not the $999 just the Aim Website he mentioned...?

Link Posted: 9/6/2009 6:49:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By PimpedGSG:
I've never shot a DPMS, but I've considered that brand and heard good things. I'd say for an entry level gun, it is GTG. I own a Spikes, a Bushmaster and a YHM. I recommend all three as solid GTG middle range AR brands. Anyone who tells you that these brands are not good, likely never had one. Bushmaster makes more guns than anyone and they have pretty good quality control. I've been thrilled with both my Spikes ST-15 lower and ST-22 upper and my YHM. The Bushy and YHM are HBar's. Never had any issue with any of these guns.


Well I got a bushy dissy that I got less than 700 bucks in and it shoots great, only thing is it's got a post ban type heavy barrel and the notorious purple upper

Got a dpms lower with a custom cmmg upper on it and I gots roughly 1100 bucks tied up in it. It shoots great too I am just not finished with it yet. It needs more junk attached to it.

Lastly I got a spikes lower with the red spider and full auto selec markings colored as well. My plans for it was for it to be supporting a beowulf upper from AA but money seems to be much tighter these days. Tested it with my other uppers, seems to work fine...

I guess what I am getting at here is from my experience and from what I have been reading here the folks that make really bad stuff kinda stick out like a sore thumb. At least here anyways. So maybe the OP can just read different posts, take them all with a grain of salt and then look around. I must admit though that these things are kinda like those potato chips...you can't have just one...beauty ehh???
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 7:16:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2009 7:20:11 PM EDT by Oniak]
http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/semi4sale.cgi?read=220185

Not exactly $999. But for $1029, shipped and insured......I'd say this is the same deal ($999 plus $30 shipping). So yeah, leswill is right, they can be found for $999.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 7:22:11 PM EDT
Sabre Defence (the spelling is British) might be another brand to look at. Their bolts are SA not FA, I believe, which may matter to you.
If you want a midlength, Colt is out.
If you want a 20" A4, Sabre makes them.

GL
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 8:19:34 PM EDT
Ha Yeah i would send my money to that email adress .I do agree the DD is a great rifle for the money .
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 9:33:08 PM EDT


stag model 2 FTW!




Link Posted: 9/6/2009 10:07:12 PM EDT
I'd say Rock River.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 10:07:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By SLICKYINC:
Del-Ton all guns 750.00.


Seriously? No I'm not referring to the price. Delton is a budget brand, I thought this was indisputable until now.

Not knocking them or saying they're junk, but I don't think they qualify as the best compromise of price vs quality.


Their quality is (or was) very solid when I got mine.
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 10:12:10 PM EDT
If you can find on the CMMG M4LE is a good rifle for less than $1000.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 1:45:05 AM EDT
BCM or Colt

Don't sacrifice quality to save a hundred bucks
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 1:54:43 AM EDT
For my money, the best bet is CMMG. I just built my friend a CMMG W.A.S.P. M4 for $755. My own W.A.S.P. has been very reliable and accurate. Plus CMMG has phenominal customer service.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 5:27:58 AM EDT
Buy once, cry once. Get the best you can, it will actually save you money in the long run
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 5:46:01 AM EDT
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/788/products_id/59519

Hands down I day Sabre Defense M-4 from Buds. $990 delivered.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 5:55:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By nicholsmf:
BCM or Colt

Don't sacrifice quality to save a hundred bucks


This. Colt or BCM are the way to go right now...
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 5:55:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jhl72:
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/788/products_id/59519

Hands down I day Sabre Defense M-4 from Buds. $990 delivered.


"Permanently Attached A2 Flash Hider" don't much care for that....
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 6:00:53 AM EDT
Stay away from RRA right now. They're building a shitty product with countless QC issues lately.

Build your own. THAT is the best value.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 6:02:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By SLICKYINC:
Del-Ton all guns 750.00.


Seriously? No I'm not referring to the price. Delton is a budget brand, I thought this was indisputable until now.

Not knocking them or saying they're junk, but I don't think they qualify as the best compromise of price vs quality.



Intarweb experience, or actual experience with them?

For most shooters, they're a fine rifle and good bang for the buck.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 6:15:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Primos:
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By SLICKYINC:
Del-Ton all guns 750.00.


Seriously? No I'm not referring to the price. Delton is a budget brand, I thought this was indisputable until now.

Not knocking them or saying they're junk, but I don't think they qualify as the best compromise of price vs quality.



Intarweb experience, or actual experience with them?

For most shooters, they're a fine rifle and good bang for the buck.



As is DPMS.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 6:19:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By UBB:
Originally Posted By Primos:
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By SLICKYINC:
Del-Ton all guns 750.00.


Seriously? No I'm not referring to the price. Delton is a budget brand, I thought this was indisputable until now.

Not knocking them or saying they're junk, but I don't think they qualify as the best compromise of price vs quality.



Intarweb experience, or actual experience with them?

For most shooters, they're a fine rifle and good bang for the buck.



As is DPMS.


No. Del ton builds a better product than DPMS, in my opinion.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 6:24:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Primos:
Originally Posted By UBB:
Originally Posted By Primos:
Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
Originally Posted By SLICKYINC:
Del-Ton all guns 750.00.


Seriously? No I'm not referring to the price. Delton is a budget brand, I thought this was indisputable until now.

Not knocking them or saying they're junk, but I don't think they qualify as the best compromise of price vs quality.



Intarweb experience, or actual experience with them?

For most shooters, they're a fine rifle and good bang for the buck.



As is DPMS.


No. Del ton builds a better product than DPMS, in my opinion.


Sure, but not in mine.
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 6:33:31 AM EDT
Have three DPMS (and other brands). Two in .308 and one .223. Work great. No problems at all. When the hammer retainer pin broke a leg on a .308, there were none available on the web site. CS there sent me four for free. Compared to the other three other brands, they are well-finished, properly staked, cosmetically perfect, and 100% functional. Never FTF, FTE.

Got them from rguns.net, good prices and delivery as promised. They are swamped and inquiries take a while. Recommended.

The TRIGGER means more than anything, for me, for accuracy. I shoot longer range, 100-600 yards, and LOVER the AR-gold trigger. Better than my Geisselle and JPs. Save on the rifle, and get a REAL trigger. 90% of my accuracy is controlled by the trigger.
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