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sweatpants
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Posted: 6/17/2009 1:52:14 AM
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 1:52:55 AM by sweatpants]
Originally Posted By Spyder7:
Originally Posted By deadpool31:

Originally Posted By Jeep297:
Originally Posted By deadpool31:
It is hard to understand why we have one of these every week. It is clear that no one is going to change their minds. It is also clear that many good rifles are out there that are way above just good. So why can't we just be happy?


Don't you remember that Tuesday is Colt vs " insert brand " day
I did forget. Carry on guys.



But its Wednesday now for half the country.

Whats today's argument going to be over now?


I hear BCM vs LMT uppers is a good one. Between that, random "factoids" and fudds calling people liberals and freedom hating it'll be fun.
“We don’t rise to the level of our expectations – we fall to the level of our training”
war07eagle
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Posted: 6/17/2009 1:54:46 AM
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 1:55:47 AM by war07eagle]
just exchange addresses and beat the shit out of each other, that would be a lot more productive

eta dont forget... PICS!!
Jeep297
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Posted: 6/17/2009 2:35:11 AM
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 2:35:43 AM by Jeep297]
Originally Posted By Spyder7:
Originally Posted By deadpool31:

Originally Posted By Jeep297:
Originally Posted By deadpool31:
It is hard to understand why we have one of these every week. It is clear that no one is going to change their minds. It is also clear that many good rifles are out there that are way above just good. So why can't we just be happy?


Don't you remember that Tuesday is Colt vs " insert brand " day
I did forget. Carry on guys.



But its Wednesday now for half the country.

Whats today's argument going to be over now?


Wednesdays are "what should I buy" day and Thursdays are "play between upper and lower" day ....Friday is a repeat of Tuesdays topic before we finally take a break over the weekend
desertmoon
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Posted: 6/17/2009 3:22:35 AM
Originally Posted By 45FMJoe:
Originally Posted By Spyder7:
No I'm just saying you guys make it seem that the rifle wont work with out those things.


I said it is the reason the Colt costs more, now if those things are not worthwhile to you then spend your money on whatever you want but don't try to defend that "just paying for a rollmark" bullshit.



Amen. The amount of ignorance about Quality Control procedures, material testing and procurement, and the reasons for those procedures is rife in this community.

Yes, rifles can run without those things. If you're willing to stake your life on unknowns when they could could be knowns...that is the buyer's business.

Not everyone "needs" the extra Q.C. cost, not everyone wants it.

But I do....and so do others.
Life is a lemon and I want my money back!!!
SaxonPope
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Posted: 6/17/2009 7:45:21 AM
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
Originally Posted By SaxonPope:
Originally Posted By Shawnmt6601:
Originally Posted By TheMercenary:

Smith and Wesson

I have had a AR in my hand almost every weekend since I was about 12 years old and through the years I have owned, handled, and fired about every brand of AR out there and built several for myself and friends. I feel that a Colt is like a John Deere tractor, you pay for 50% gun and 50% for the name, so I PERSONALY do not care much for Colt AR's or the Colt company in general, They are no better IMO that a good Stag or S&W but yet are several hundred dollars more for nothing but there pretty little roll stamp

I have right now in my safe 2 S&W ARs "1-VTAC and 1-15T" and I personaly have fell in love with these things, the fit and finish is superb and QC is unmatched. Another thing that plays a roll in MY purchcase is the fact that Colt have in the past had the HK attitude of if your a Civilian then you dont matter "piss on you", Smith & Wesson on the other hand has always been a company with a strong relationship with the civilian market and have great customer service.

You pick the one that you like the best. after all it is your rifle.








oh ? I remeber a certain company in the 90s that was more than willing to sign on with the clintons to stop handgun crime etc etc before being resold to american owners. you better check your S&W history a little more closely.

and that few hundred more. goes to testing and inspection of parts. 103 point test/inspection on the lower receiver alone. and 103 point on the BCG. SHow me where S&W does all that


Be careful Bro, no company has a longer and richer history of pissing down the backs of the American firearm owner than Colt.






Take your bullshit elsewhere - this is a tech forum and you have nothing of technical value to add obviously.


You brought up the subject of a gun manufacturers political history Fan Boy, I didn't. If you can't support your argument, then just drink another beer and lay your ignorant ass back down on the couch. Or better yet, take some time to research the political history of the company you obviously worship. Google is your friend....Use it.
sweatpants
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Posted: 6/17/2009 7:50:26 AM
Originally Posted By SaxonPope:

You brought up the subject of a gun manufacturers political history Fan Boy, I didn't. If you can't support your argument, then just drink another beer and lay your ignorant ass back down on the couch. Or better yet, take some time to research the political history of the company you obviously worship. Google is your friend....Use it.


“We don’t rise to the level of our expectations – we fall to the level of our training”
hellbound
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Posted: 6/17/2009 8:11:32 AM
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 8:13:49 AM by hellbound]
Originally Posted By TheMercenary:
have right now in my safe 2 S&W ARs "1-VTAC and 1-15T" and I personaly have fell in love with these things, the fit and finish is superb and QC is unmatched. Another thing that plays a roll in MY purchcase is the fact that Colt have in the past had the HK attitude of if your a Civilian then you dont matter "piss on you", Smith & Wesson on the other hand has always been a company with a strong relationship with the civilian market and have great customer service.


OP, anyone that lists "fit and finish" as their number 1 criteria for evaluating a firearm has their priorities out of wack...

negative on the Colt being like HK comment, that is internet hearsay, i have called Colt directly many times and was treated just fine, have YOU ever dealt with Colt??

as for the S&W having a strong relationship with civilians, you might want to do some googling... S&W turned their backs on gun owners in the past and in fact were boycotted during most of the 90s for making deals with the Clinton administration...



as for the original question, I am a gun snob, i would take the Colt everytime if for nothing else the 1/7 barrel twist
"It is the unconquerable nature of man and not the nature of the weapon he uses that ensures victory." General George S Patton
CTbuilder1
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Posted: 6/17/2009 8:44:23 AM
Originally Posted By SaxonPope:
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
Originally Posted By SaxonPope:
Originally Posted By Shawnmt6601:
Originally Posted By TheMercenary:

Smith and Wesson

I have had a AR in my hand almost every weekend since I was about 12 years old and through the years I have owned, handled, and fired about every brand of AR out there and built several for myself and friends. I feel that a Colt is like a John Deere tractor, you pay for 50% gun and 50% for the name, so I PERSONALY do not care much for Colt AR's or the Colt company in general, They are no better IMO that a good Stag or S&W but yet are several hundred dollars more for nothing but there pretty little roll stamp

I have right now in my safe 2 S&W ARs "1-VTAC and 1-15T" and I personaly have fell in love with these things, the fit and finish is superb and QC is unmatched. Another thing that plays a roll in MY purchcase is the fact that Colt have in the past had the HK attitude of if your a Civilian then you dont matter "piss on you", Smith & Wesson on the other hand has always been a company with a strong relationship with the civilian market and have great customer service.

You pick the one that you like the best. after all it is your rifle.








oh ? I remeber a certain company in the 90s that was more than willing to sign on with the clintons to stop handgun crime etc etc before being resold to american owners. you better check your S&W history a little more closely.

and that few hundred more. goes to testing and inspection of parts. 103 point test/inspection on the lower receiver alone. and 103 point on the BCG. SHow me where S&W does all that


Be careful Bro, no company has a longer and richer history of pissing down the backs of the American firearm owner than Colt.






Take your bullshit elsewhere - this is a tech forum and you have nothing of technical value to add obviously.


You brought up the subject of a gun manufacturers political history Fan Boy, I didn't. If you can't support your argument, then just drink another beer and lay your ignorant ass back down on the couch. Or better yet, take some time to research the political history of the company you obviously worship. Google is your friend....Use it.


Really? I did? Please go back and findwhere I brought up the companies political history. You may have a hard time doing so because I, in fact, did no such thing. I am not some boycott clown so I really dont' care about the past deeds of Colt, S&W or Ruger. I didn't say I don't know about them, I just don't care. Once again, take your BS elsewhere.
Coming soon to a Colt vs. Brand X thread near you!
CTbuilder1
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Posted: 6/17/2009 8:49:29 AM
Originally Posted By JohnNYPD:

****Quote taken from CTBuilder1 below******

***Take your bullshit elsewhere - this is a tech forum and you have nothing of technical value to add obviously*****....Advice you gave fellow ARFCOM member in above post.

I wish you would abid by your own rules.


John



I answered a question that was addressed to me. I am never the one to bring up the politics in a tech forum. That is usually the Colt bashers who have little technical knowledge and have to use politics to bolster their argument (which is still always weak. You are one of those people. I'm not even sure why you still try to engage in these discussions with me considering you are never able to adequately back up your stance
Coming soon to a Colt vs. Brand X thread near you!
CTbuilder1
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Posted: 6/17/2009 8:52:13 AM
Originally Posted By Spyder7:
But... you said it changed ownership.

I care more about the owner of the company, as they can easily fire the management....



There was a reson they hired that management in the first place. I would worry less about the onwership and more about the actualy product if I were you. Past politics of a company has no impact on the actual hardware they roll out. That is why I said the politics have no place in a tech forum. There is nothing technical about politics.
Coming soon to a Colt vs. Brand X thread near you!
rodical
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Posted: 6/17/2009 10:35:34 AM
I would buy a John Deer over another brand even with a higher price knowing it is a better Tractor.
WindRiver78
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Posted: 6/17/2009 11:13:42 AM
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 11:14:30 AM by WindRiver78]
I'll just leave this here:

Tier 1: What I bought.

Tier 2: The shit my friends bought

Tier 3: The shit everyone bought

"It's better to be hated for what your are, then loved for what your are not"
45FMJoe
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Posted: 6/17/2009 11:31:45 AM
Originally Posted By WindRiver78:
I'll just leave this here:

Tier 1: What I bought.

Tier 2: The shit my friends bought

Tier 3: The shit everyone bought



This joke still makes no sense, years later.
Obama is like a Trojan horse for retards. - stealbear
Spyder7
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Posted: 6/17/2009 11:57:37 AM
Originally Posted By 45FMJoe:
Originally Posted By WindRiver78:
I'll just leave this here:

Tier 1: What I bought.

Tier 2: The shit my friends bought

Tier 3: The shit everyone bought



This joke still makes no sense, years later.


I know, what if your friend has the same rifle as you?
lamarbrog
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Posted: 6/17/2009 12:48:14 PM
I would say BCM. Just piece it together.


MP15 has a good bolt in it... But the barrel is 4140.
WindRiver78
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Posted: 6/17/2009 2:26:43 PM
Originally Posted By 45FMJoe:
Originally Posted By WindRiver78:
I'll just leave this here:

Tier 1: What I bought.

Tier 2: The shit my friends bought

Tier 3: The shit everyone else bought



This joke still makes no sense, years later.


Fixed it.
"It's better to be hated for what your are, then loved for what your are not"
45FMJoe
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Posted: 6/17/2009 2:28:25 PM
Originally Posted By WindRiver78:
Originally Posted By 45FMJoe:
Originally Posted By WindRiver78:
I'll just leave this here:

Tier 1: What I bought.

Tier 2: The shit my friends bought

Tier 3: The shit everyone else bought



This joke still makes no sense, years later.


Fixed it.


I know what you meant, but the joke still doesn't make any sense.
Obama is like a Trojan horse for retards. - stealbear
wools10
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Posted: 6/17/2009 4:37:31 PM
Does any of this sound familiar?

My Colt has FTF after the 2nd round, what's wrong?
My Colt has FTE after the 2nd round, what's wrong?
My Colt has a magazine that wont catch, what's wrong?
My Colt has a short stroke problem, what's wrong?
My Colt bolt wont close all the way, what's wrong?
My Colt doesn't have a staked gas key is that okay?
My Colt when I fire the last shot, won't catch the bolt, what's wrong?

Do you get my drift here? All day long, people need help with their NON functioning junk off brand gun.

Save you and me the headache and buy a COLT.
SaxonPope
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Posted: 6/17/2009 6:53:59 PM
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
Originally Posted By SaxonPope:
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
Originally Posted By SaxonPope:
Originally Posted By Shawnmt6601:
Originally Posted By TheMercenary:

Smith and Wesson

I have had a AR in my hand almost every weekend since I was about 12 years old and through the years I have owned, handled, and fired about every brand of AR out there and built several for myself and friends. I feel that a Colt is like a John Deere tractor, you pay for 50% gun and 50% for the name, so I PERSONALY do not care much for Colt AR's or the Colt company in general, They are no better IMO that a good Stag or S&W but yet are several hundred dollars more for nothing but there pretty little roll stamp

I have right now in my safe 2 S&W ARs "1-VTAC and 1-15T" and I personaly have fell in love with these things, the fit and finish is superb and QC is unmatched. Another thing that plays a roll in MY purchcase is the fact that Colt have in the past had the HK attitude of if your a Civilian then you dont matter "piss on you", Smith & Wesson on the other hand has always been a company with a strong relationship with the civilian market and have great customer service.

You pick the one that you like the best. after all it is your rifle.








oh ? I remeber a certain company in the 90s that was more than willing to sign on with the clintons to stop handgun crime etc etc before being resold to american owners. you better check your S&W history a little more closely.

and that few hundred more. goes to testing and inspection of parts. 103 point test/inspection on the lower receiver alone. and 103 point on the BCG. SHow me where S&W does all that


Be careful Bro, no company has a longer and richer history of pissing down the backs of the American firearm owner than Colt.






Take your bullshit elsewhere - this is a tech forum and you have nothing of technical value to add obviously.


You brought up the subject of a gun manufacturers political history Fan Boy, I didn't. If you can't support your argument, then just drink another beer and lay your ignorant ass back down on the couch. Or better yet, take some time to research the political history of the company you obviously worship. Google is your friend....Use it.


Really? I did? Please go back and findwhere I brought up the companies political history. You may have a hard time doing so because I, in fact, did no such thing. I am not some boycott clown so I really dont' care about the past deeds of Colt, S&W or Ruger. I didn't say I don't know about them, I just don't care. Once again, take your BS elsewhere.


You are correct Fan Boy. You didn't bring up the political history part of this thread, my mistake. You just responded to it in a ignorant and narrow minded manor. But please continue your Colt worship. I bought Colt heavily years ago when they were still a reputable company and didn't stab the civilian consumer in the back every chance they got. The last few years I have been selling off my Colt collection to other fan boys such as yourself that worship the prancing pony at more than a premium. So really, you continue to keep your BS right where its at and I'll continue to take my BS to the bank. Or at least give it to firearm manufactures that actually care about the civilian consumer.
Shawnmt6601
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Posted: 6/17/2009 7:26:50 PM
haha this thread is full of colt hating personal attacks, very nice SaxonPope, are you really Sixgunner?


and just for our S&W pals


Agreement of 2000

In March 2000 Smith & Wesson signed an agreement with the Clinton Administration in order to avoid lawsuits.[2] The company agreed to numerous safety and design standards, as well as limits on the sale and distribution of their products. Gun clubs and gun rights groups responded to this agreement by initiating large-scale boycotts of Smith & Wesson by refusing to buy their new products and flooding the firearms market with used S&W guns, cutting into their market share. [3][4] This agreement signed by Tomkins PLC ended with the sale of Smith and Wesson to the Saf-T-Hammer Corporation. The new company, (Smith and Wesson Holding Corporation), publicly renounced the agreement which was received positively by the firearms community.


personally I dont give a fuck, the past is the past. but Lets not be spouting drivel without knowing the complete story.
Picking up a Colt 1911 is like shaking hands with an old friend

Thanks to Peepshowal and CTbuilder1 !!

"only fear and lack of skill drives men to want bigger calibers." -stormwalker
CTbuilder1
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Posted: 6/17/2009 8:03:22 PM
Originally Posted By SaxonPope:
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
Originally Posted By SaxonPope:
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
Originally Posted By SaxonPope:
Originally Posted By Shawnmt6601:
Originally Posted By TheMercenary:

Smith and Wesson

I have had a AR in my hand almost every weekend since I was about 12 years old and through the years I have owned, handled, and fired about every brand of AR out there and built several for myself and friends. I feel that a Colt is like a John Deere tractor, you pay for 50% gun and 50% for the name, so I PERSONALY do not care much for Colt AR's or the Colt company in general, They are no better IMO that a good Stag or S&W but yet are several hundred dollars more for nothing but there pretty little roll stamp

I have right now in my safe 2 S&W ARs "1-VTAC and 1-15T" and I personaly have fell in love with these things, the fit and finish is superb and QC is unmatched. Another thing that plays a roll in MY purchcase is the fact that Colt have in the past had the HK attitude of if your a Civilian then you dont matter "piss on you", Smith & Wesson on the other hand has always been a company with a strong relationship with the civilian market and have great customer service.

You pick the one that you like the best. after all it is your rifle.








oh ? I remeber a certain company in the 90s that was more than willing to sign on with the clintons to stop handgun crime etc etc before being resold to american owners. you better check your S&W history a little more closely.

and that few hundred more. goes to testing and inspection of parts. 103 point test/inspection on the lower receiver alone. and 103 point on the BCG. SHow me where S&W does all that


Be careful Bro, no company has a longer and richer history of pissing down the backs of the American firearm owner than Colt.






Take your bullshit elsewhere - this is a tech forum and you have nothing of technical value to add obviously.


You brought up the subject of a gun manufacturers political history Fan Boy, I didn't. If you can't support your argument, then just drink another beer and lay your ignorant ass back down on the couch. Or better yet, take some time to research the political history of the company you obviously worship. Google is your friend....Use it.


Really? I did? Please go back and findwhere I brought up the companies political history. You may have a hard time doing so because I, in fact, did no such thing. I am not some boycott clown so I really dont' care about the past deeds of Colt, S&W or Ruger. I didn't say I don't know about them, I just don't care. Once again, take your BS elsewhere.


You are correct Fan Boy. You didn't bring up the political history part of this thread, my mistake. You just responded to it in a ignorant and narrow minded manor. But please continue your Colt worship. I bought Colt heavily years ago when they were still a reputable company and didn't stab the civilian consumer in the back every chance they got. The last few years I have been selling off my Colt collection to other fan boys such as yourself that worship the prancing pony at more than a premium. So really, you continue to keep your BS right where its at and I'll continue to take my BS to the bank. Or at least give it to firearm manufactures that actually care about the civilian consumer.



Dig around enough and most companies have fucked us in one way or another, That's why it's a non issue to me. I won't deprive myself of top notch products just because of a companies past sins. I think people who boycott are childish. I am not really a fan boy - I don't blindly follow. I have reasons why I prefer Colt and they can be found in my posting history. Most of the anti Colt crowd can only resort to attacking the company's past, personal attacks by calling us "kool aid" drinkers and "fan boys" and utter BS. I also own LMT products, have had KAC products in the past (and will again) and BCM products.

May I point out I am a CT resident. Colt is not to far from where I reside. Every year our legislature trys to cram more antigun legislation down our throughts. Micro stamping and ammo codeing are two of the ones they are really pressing for. Colt has sent top execs to the hearings to opposed these measures. If they didn't care about the civilian market then why would they waste thier time with such a small market (Colt CT handgun sales)? It wouldn't affect them in any other state. They even delivered a persoanl message from LT General Keyes - If you pass this bill, Colt will consider packing up and moving to a new state.

The new management is very civilian friendly and have really turned the company around. You, and the rest of the Colt bashers, don't know as much as you think you do.
Coming soon to a Colt vs. Brand X thread near you!
g8rgunner
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Posted: 6/17/2009 8:10:07 PM
It's amazing how quickly and predictably these threads turn into petty bickering. Who needs Obama and the libtards when we seem more than eager to turn on each other. To the OP, both guns will likely serve you fine. Is Colt better in some areas? Yes. Will these things really, truly make a difference to the average ARFCOM user? Probably not. If the prices are comparable, go for the Colt. If the Colt is more and you have the $$$, go for the Colt. If the SW is less and you're on a budget, go for the Smith. If you just, for no real reason, like the SW better, get it. You'll be happy with either. As far as politics go, both companies seem to have sinned in the past, so take it for what you want. I've owned a Colt in the past and loved it. I currently own a SW and love it also. Contrary to what some here seem to believe, Colts are not made out of magical alloys in a hollow tree by AR fairies and others ARs are not made out of scrap metal by illegal aliens in a sweat shop. They are fine rifles, as are many others. Get what you like and can afford and enjoy it. Don't let anyone tell you could have or should have gotten something else, and don't preach to anyone else about how your weapon is superior. Shoot the hell out of whatever you get, take pictures and post later. Now, let the bickering resume.
CTbuilder1
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Posted: 6/17/2009 8:16:32 PM
Originally Posted By g8rgunner:
It's amazing how quickly and predictably these threads turn into petty bickering. Who needs Obama and the libtards when we seem more than eager to turn on each other. To the OP, both guns will likely serve you fine. Is Colt better in some areas? Yes. Will these things really, truly make a difference to the average ARFCOM user? Probably not. If the prices are comparable, go for the Colt. If the Colt is more and you have the $$$, go for the Colt. If the SW is less and you're on a budget, go for the Smith. If you just, for no real reason, like the SW better, get it. You'll be happy with either. As far as politics go, both companies seem to have sinned in the past, so take it for what you want. I've owned a Colt in the past and loved it. I currently own a SW and love it also. Contrary to what some here seem to believe, Colts are not made out of magical alloys in a hollow tree by AR fairies and others ARs are not made out of scrap metal by illegal aliens in a sweat shop. They are fine rifles, as are many others. Get what you like and can afford and enjoy it. Don't let anyone tell you could have or should have gotten something else, and don't preach to anyone else about how your weapon is superior. Shoot the hell out of whatever you get, take pictures and post later. Now, let the bickering resume.


You must be new here. How dare you not engage in the brand bickering.
Coming soon to a Colt vs. Brand X thread near you!
g8rgunner
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Posted: 6/17/2009 8:35:41 PM
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 8:36:15 PM by g8rgunner]
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
Originally Posted By g8rgunner:
It's amazing how quickly and predictably these threads turn into petty bickering. Who needs Obama and the libtards when we seem more than eager to turn on each other. To the OP, both guns will likely serve you fine. Is Colt better in some areas? Yes. Will these things really, truly make a difference to the average ARFCOM user? Probably not. If the prices are comparable, go for the Colt. If the Colt is more and you have the $$$, go for the Colt. If the SW is less and you're on a budget, go for the Smith. If you just, for no real reason, like the SW better, get it. You'll be happy with either. As far as politics go, both companies seem to have sinned in the past, so take it for what you want. I've owned a Colt in the past and loved it. I currently own a SW and love it also. Contrary to what some here seem to believe, Colts are not made out of magical alloys in a hollow tree by AR fairies and others ARs are not made out of scrap metal by illegal aliens in a sweat shop. They are fine rifles, as are many others. Get what you like and can afford and enjoy it. Don't let anyone tell you could have or should have gotten something else, and don't preach to anyone else about how your weapon is superior. Shoot the hell out of whatever you get, take pictures and post later. Now, let the bickering resume.


You must be new here. How dare you not engage in the brand bickering.


There's nothing wrong with reasonably presenting facts as to why you feel one gun is superior to another. There just seems to be a little too much Kool-Aid around here sometimes. Too much bashing of any brand other than the one someone prefers. Too many newbies probably leave here thinking anything other than a certain couple of manufacturers are crap. Yes, some are better than others, but many are perfectly fine and reliable. Many newbies also probably leave here thinking we're a bunch of petty a-holes. Too many on the outside would love to take our rights away, this infighting is counterproductive and pretty ridiculous. I usually just shake my head and keep browsing, but felt like throwing in my $.02 this time.
sweatpants
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Posted: 6/17/2009 9:01:28 PM
Originally Posted By g8rgunner:
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
Originally Posted By g8rgunner:
It's amazing how quickly and predictably these threads turn into petty bickering. Who needs Obama and the libtards when we seem more than eager to turn on each other. To the OP, both guns will likely serve you fine. Is Colt better in some areas? Yes. Will these things really, truly make a difference to the average ARFCOM user? Probably not. If the prices are comparable, go for the Colt. If the Colt is more and you have the $$$, go for the Colt. If the SW is less and you're on a budget, go for the Smith. If you just, for no real reason, like the SW better, get it. You'll be happy with either. As far as politics go, both companies seem to have sinned in the past, so take it for what you want. I've owned a Colt in the past and loved it. I currently own a SW and love it also. Contrary to what some here seem to believe, Colts are not made out of magical alloys in a hollow tree by AR fairies and others ARs are not made out of scrap metal by illegal aliens in a sweat shop. They are fine rifles, as are many others. Get what you like and can afford and enjoy it. Don't let anyone tell you could have or should have gotten something else, and don't preach to anyone else about how your weapon is superior. Shoot the hell out of whatever you get, take pictures and post later. Now, let the bickering resume.


You must be new here. How dare you not engage in the brand bickering.


There's nothing wrong with reasonably presenting facts as to why you feel one gun is superior to another. There just seems to be a little too much Kool-Aid around here sometimes. Too much bashing of any brand other than the one someone prefers. Too many newbies probably leave here thinking anything other than a certain couple of manufacturers are crap. Yes, some are better than others, but many are perfectly fine and reliable. Many newbies also probably leave here thinking we're a bunch of petty a-holes. Too many on the outside would love to take our rights away, this infighting is counterproductive and pretty ridiculous. I usually just shake my head and keep browsing, but felt like throwing in my $.02 this time.


But but but my Colt was hand carved from a unicorn horn and lubed with tears of an angel!
“We don’t rise to the level of our expectations – we fall to the level of our training”
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