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Basic
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Posted: 4/9/2009 9:13:10 PM EST
I`m building my first ar and I have everything but the barrel but I was wondering if all ar`s are pretty hard to cock/charge? Would a tactical latch solve this? thanks
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Link Posted: 4/9/2009 9:20:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By blasterrider88:
I`m building my first ar and I have everything but the barrel but I was wondering if all ar`s are pretty hard to cock/charge? Would a tactical latch solve this? thanks


No, they are not.
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Link Posted: 4/9/2009 9:22:28 PM EST
Nope. Tac-Latch is primarily for clearance with optics.
"No parent including me wants to see their son go off to war for any reason but, Duty
to Country is duty to family. Without our Country none of us would have a Family."

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Link Posted: 4/9/2009 9:35:22 PM EST
Now the charging handle is sticking! This thing is like 10 times harder to cock than my ak! I`m gonna sell it if it dont quit this. I have a stag arms a3 upper, stag arms charging handle, and a bolt and carrier that I got from ar15-rifles.com
SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM
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Link Posted: 4/9/2009 9:39:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/9/2009 9:42:30 PM EST by Desert_AIP]
Are you sure it is in the groove in the upper correctly.
Did you lube the charging handle and bolt?
The bolt should be wet, especially on a new build.
Is anything binding in the receiver extension?
Does the bolt line up with the receiver extension properly?


ETA:
Your trying to cycle the action with no barrel installed?
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Link Posted: 4/9/2009 9:47:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/10/2009 8:10:23 PM EST by blasterrider88]
stuff seems to line up good. I am charging it with no barrel. I can see the finish coming off of the inside of the upper above the charging handle. So much of the finish is coming off that I can smell it pretty strong. I have the stuff lubed up alot to see if it would help and it isnt. the handle dont hardly want to move.
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Link Posted: 4/9/2009 9:55:55 PM EST
Check the staking on the bolt carrier.. maybe. I just built mine, haven't fired it yet but was suprized at the amount of force it took to charge it. I had just a Ruger 10/22 before this. I have a scope in place too... makes it harder to get ahold of.
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Link Posted: 4/9/2009 10:01:21 PM EST
Post pics of the charging handle and BCG.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price,
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Link Posted: 4/9/2009 10:01:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/9/2009 10:14:59 PM EST by blasterrider88]
I`m new to ar`s but the staking looks fine to me. I`ve been messing with it and I`m starting to get it working better. hopefull saying this dont jinks me.
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Link Posted: 4/9/2009 10:39:36 PM EST
Something looks off here. Not sure what, but I bet something is not installed/put togather correctly, or something was machined quite poorly or something. None of my uppers show that kind of wear for quite a while. Certainly not from finger fvcking it like the OP seems to have been doing.
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Link Posted: 4/9/2009 10:45:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/10/2009 8:10:59 PM EST by blasterrider88]
my bolt is so hard to move my charging handle got at up! something is out of spec for sure
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Link Posted: 4/9/2009 10:51:01 PM EST
Should I dremel the little ate up part of the charging handle off, Contact Stag Arms and ask them what the hell is up with it or what?
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Link Posted: 4/9/2009 10:51:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/9/2009 10:52:52 PM EST by Stonerriflefan44]
You mentioned you don't have a barrel on there yet, are the bolt lugs dragging across the feed ramps?
Is you buffer tube and buffer/ spring detent installed properly?

Remove the upper from the lower, remove the charging handle, insert BCG and move back and forth, see if it is hanging up anywhere in the movement. Remove BCG and insert the CH move that back and forth, see if it is binding anywhere in the movement.

If everything seems GTG and moves without any issues, check you lower. Start with the Bolt catch, is it seated properly, does it move without binding. Do a function check on FCG, check hammer spring make sure it is installed correctly.

ETA definately that nub on the CH, grind it off, sand smooth, GTG
/o]|o|[o\
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Link Posted: 4/9/2009 10:59:06 PM EST
everything works great alone. I dont get it.
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Link Posted: 4/9/2009 11:05:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/9/2009 11:11:19 PM EST by Stonerriflefan44]
Originally Posted By blasterrider88:
everything works great alone. I dont get it.




A CH should not have a nub on it. Looks like a casting imperfection. In todays market, the MFG probably overlooked it. Most parts are made by another company, so they ( maker of CH) let it through the CQ inspection.

I would say that is your issue. grind that nubbin off.
ETA:
A tell tale sign, the carrier key should fit perfectly and smoothly through the hole at the front of the CH. Also the bottom of the CH should be flush with the top of the bolt carrier in front of the cam pin. I see in your first pic that the carrier key is not even with the slot in the CH.
/o]|o|[o\
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Link Posted: 4/9/2009 11:08:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/10/2009 8:11:45 PM EST by blasterrider88]
i grinded it off and it didnt help
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Link Posted: 4/9/2009 11:12:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/9/2009 11:14:01 PM EST by Stonerriflefan44]
Originally Posted By blasterrider88:
i grinded it off and it didnt help. the handle sticks back. now it dont hardly budge. this sucks because I`m 16 and sold a lot of stuff on craigslist just to build this and I have something out of spec somewhere.
http://i39.tinypic.com/5d03rd.jpg



Do you have a buffer spring in there? Is your BCG in there as well?
ETA
Give it a few taps to get it unstuck, don't use the biggest hammer, use your palm on the rear of the CH.
/o]|o|[o\
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Link Posted: 4/9/2009 11:17:20 PM EST
is the buffer retainer held down by the receiver extension? Take pics of the entire BCG and top rear of the lower so we can see the buffer area. These guns are not complicated, don't panic and think you need to sell everything. You already had a charging handle out of spec, lets figure out what else is going on.
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Link Posted: 4/9/2009 11:23:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By blasterrider88:
i grinded it off and it didnt help. the handle sticks back. now it dont hardly budge. this sucks because I`m 16 and sold a lot of stuff on craigslist just to build this and I have something out of spec somewhere.
http://i39.tinypic.com/5d03rd.jpg


I was going to add, if you dont have the BCG in there, just push out the rear take down pin. If your BCG is stuck, most likey the cause is because you don't have a spring and buffer in there and it slid all the way back. hit your foward asist to move the BCG foward.



/o]|o|[o\
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Link Posted: 4/9/2009 11:28:28 PM EST

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Link Posted: 4/9/2009 11:32:14 PM EST
OK, that looks good- looks like you have the spring and everything in there, nothing out of place. Can you push the buffer down with little effort? If so, that should totally eliminate the extension itself, but not an interaction with the BCG. Get a picture of the whole BCG, maybe one with it in the upper from the bottom as well. Other than you upper receiver, are there any other areas with strange wear marks?
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Link Posted: 4/9/2009 11:56:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/10/2009 8:13:20 PM EST by blasterrider88]
I had a bunch of pics here but I deleted them.
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Link Posted: 4/9/2009 11:57:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By subterfugeinc:
OK, that looks good- looks like you have the spring and everything in there, nothing out of place. Can you push the buffer down with little effort? If so, that should totally eliminate the extension itself, but not an interaction with the BCG. Get a picture of the whole BCG, maybe one with it in the upper from the bottom as well. Other than you upper receiver, are there any other areas with strange wear marks?



+1

Here is a pic of one of my BCGs and CHs Notice in the first pic the CH is flush with the top of the BCG in front of the cam pin.

Second pic is of the inside area, of the CH. Notice towards the front, it is flared on the inside towards the area of contact with the carrier key. The outer most portion is slighty wider for clearance at the carrier key. When you ground down that casting imperfection did you make sure it was completely flat. Do you use a dremel, grinding at high speed will remove material, but will also cause the material( cutting or welding slag) to stick to the part. Use a fine file or sand paper to clean up the surface area.


If your BCG moves freely with the upper, its gliding on the raceways without any binding. And your CH moves freely without binding, but they are not working together. It may be the CH is out of spec. I don't have a micrometer with me here at home, but I can bring it home tomorrow and give you some measurements on the CH.


/o]|o|[o\
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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 12:07:35 AM EST
blasterrider, I see your top pic, but it looks like there are more that aren't showing up. Got to get some sleep, but I'll check back in the morning.
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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 12:09:21 AM EST
Your 4th pic shows alot of wear on the carrier key and CH and I do believe you have an out of spec CH. My BCG and CH have about 3.5K rds through them, little dirty but not as much wear on yours and yours are brand new. I would put money on the CH causing the issue.



/o]|o|[o\
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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 12:16:24 AM EST
here is a pic of the bcg and ch partially inserted if you can make it out.

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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 12:30:53 AM EST
this is how it looks when its together in the upper.


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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 12:41:36 AM EST
it has to be the ch or the bcg
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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 12:47:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By blasterrider88:
here is a pic of the bcg and ch partially inserted if you can make it out.
http://i39.tinypic.com/4uwc4y.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/1zfhp1l.jpg



Do you have anyone( friend/fellow AR owner) close by that can loan you a CH to see if it works better with another CH. The carrier key in the first pic looks slightly lower than the hole in the CH. this could be the problem. The carrier key may be pushing on the CH causing it to bind.

I had an issue with a BCG that would get stuck( carrier drag ) it was related to the cam pin. I had wear marks along the inside of the receiver where the cam pin was dragging against the upper. Yours looks good, no wear marks inside the upper.

I would email all these pics to the MFG and see if they will replace the CH. Did you say it was Stag? Post these pics in the Stag( CMT ) industry forum you may get a quick response from a rep there.
AR15.com Stag industry forum


I feel your pain, no worse feeling than trying to figure out WTF is going on. I don't think it serious, like I said IMHO I believe it is related to the CH. In your pics the carrier key looks like its staked properly and sits flush to the bolt carrier.

I will see if we can find a solution to this in the morning.

/o]|o|[o\
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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 2:02:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/10/2009 2:03:16 AM EST by blasterrider88]
I came up with a little "red neck" job to see if it was the charging handle causing the problem and its the charging handle. I just put some duct tape on the handle to take up the room between it and the key to hold the ch down and the action worked perfect every pull. I guess I`ll buy a new charging handle. Any recommendations on where to get one? heres a pic of what I did.
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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 2:14:54 AM EST
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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 2:43:56 AM EST
Thats what I was thinking. Thanks alot for all the help guys!
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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 7:29:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By blasterrider88:
Thats what I was thinking. Thanks alot for all the help guys!


Awesome, glad you got it figured out. I am running that BCM charging handle with no issues, by the way.
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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 7:46:34 AM EST
I'd send the old one into stag.
The best they could do would be to replace it.
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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 7:47:52 AM EST
Ive got one for sale for 20 bucks if anyone wants it...
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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 10:26:51 AM EST
yeah, your top pic gave it away too......as for teh charge handle being the culprit
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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 11:46:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/10/2009 11:47:58 AM EST by blasterrider88]
I really hope a new charging handle fixes it or I`m gonna see how much Cabelas will give me for what I have and if they give me enough I`ll save a lil more money and buy my dads boss`s Colt Match Target HBAR from him for $1100 or buy a boyds evolution stock and tactical solutions bull barrel for my 10/22.
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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 12:03:53 PM EST
Am I the only one annoyed by this kid?
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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 12:21:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/10/2009 12:25:47 PM EST by boltcatch]
Originally Posted By 12_gauge:
Originally Posted By blasterrider88:
I`m building my first ar and I have everything but the barrel but I was wondering if all ar`s are pretty hard to cock/charge? Would a tactical latch solve this? thanks


No, they are not.


I know plenty of people that have a hard time charging AR's. It could be a problem with the rifle, but 99 times out of 100 it's an operator headspace and timing issue. You probably shouldn't be trying to charge a weapon without a barrel/receiver extension installed in the first place.
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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 12:29:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By ti8589:
Am I the only one annoyed by this kid?


I think so. No one else here seem to have a problem with
helping out a new guy with some technical problems while
in a technical forum. Yeah, I think you're the only one.

Give the poor guy a break and while we're at it, let's welcome the
guy aboard and be glad that he sought out people who know,
instead of going at it with nothing but hand tools and good intentions.

To the OP: Welcome to ARFcom; glad to see you're getting things worked out.

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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 1:09:28 PM EST
^^ thanks ^^ I`ll order a new charging handle tonight. I cant wait to finally finish this thing.
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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 1:18:39 PM EST
I have a 10/22, trust me, you will want to keep the AR once it is running nice and smoothly.
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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 1:46:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/10/2009 1:48:03 PM EST by blasterrider88]
^^ yeah, I`ll love it when its finished ^^ Once agian, thanks for all the help!
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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 7:55:13 PM EST
I dont understand this. When I reinstall the ch and the bcg in the upper, the first pull is real easy, the second pull is hard and sticks, then it dont hardly budge by the third pull. I dont know when I`ll be able to buy a new ch but I`ll post agian when I get one and tell you if that fixed it.
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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 8:22:30 PM EST
Yeah, I'd let it be until you get the replacement. Don't want to
'wear-in' an out-of-spec part to the point of putting abnormal
wear on your upper. Know what I mean? Patience, man.
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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 8:26:03 PM EST
^^true^^
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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 8:36:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By ti8589:
Am I the only one annoyed by this kid?


A$$ hat.
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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 9:11:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By blasterrider88:
I don't understand this. When I reinstall the ch and the bcg in the upper, the first pull is real easy, the second pull is hard and sticks, then it dont hardly budge by the third pull. I dont know when I`ll be able to buy a new ch but I`ll post agian when I get one and tell you if that fixed it.



That's because your f'ed up charging handle is wedging more and more between the Gas key. Stop playing with it before you screw something else up. And read the "How to's" on the tech tread a few more times. Trust me, you'll look back on this and say, "what the hell was I thinking".
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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 9:21:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/10/2009 9:31:10 PM EST by blasterrider88]
^^ Good Point! ^^ I just snaped my charging handle in half so I wont be tempted to mess with it more.
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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 9:50:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By blasterrider88:
^^ Good Point! ^^ I just snaped my charging handle in half so I wont be tempted to mess with it more.



don't throw it away, remove latch rollpin and spring, save for a rainy day.
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Link Posted: 4/10/2009 9:58:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/10/2009 10:04:31 PM EST by blasterrider88]
I through the handle away but kept the roll pin, latch, and spring.
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